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Star Trek Online: Why Roddenberry Would Cry
dysonsolar
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
I am not sure who this should be directed to but I'll just assume it should be Cryptic. Given that, I have a few comments to make to Cryptic. First off, I've been a Trekker/Trekkie/whatever, since the beginning. In fact, I met Roddenberry in his hometown when he was still a LA cop and trying to get Star Trek going in Hollywood. He had come back to visit some friends and I bumped into him one day and we talked a bit. He was a nice gent and I was intrigued with his ideas he was trying to promote. I also attended The Great Bird of the Galaxy convention in El Paso, his hometown, to which almost the whole TOS cast showed up, plus many others, even though El Paso is not a major convention site. The convention was to honor him and the fond memories he had of his hometown where his idea originated. I know that having grown up there, he saw the border situation with the idealistic vision that he put into Star Trek, where he dreamed of a time when all nationalities would be united under the banner of humankind. So, maybe it doesn't seem I've made a point about the game yet, but here it is. What you've done with this game resembles Gene Roddenberry's idealistic Star Trek universe in only the vaguest ways. Yes, you have the ships, the uniforms, the jargon and all the obvious trappings, but you have no depth, no breadth, no understanding of what made that show so successful. If you did understand it, you'd have the best game on the market and a game no one would leave. All the great development that made Star Trek worth watching, the character involvement, the little things, the human drama, the interspecies drama, the idealistic fable telling, is missing from this game. All you've done is developed a first person shooter for the masses with the typically stupid grinding business model. That's is a sad imitation of Roddenberry's universe. You're game is so shallow, I'm not even wetting my ankles in it. It could be great, but you're making it not only a travesty of Star Trek, but insulting Gene in the process.
Secondly and lastly, it's amazing to me how unimaginative and unoriginal this major game company is. Was it ever even discussed at some board meeting to take this game and be so original with game concepts that you might create a new game genre? That you might do so with such success that you became the best game company with the best game model in the business was a definite possibility with the ST universe to use. You could have put other companies on notice that their day had finally arrived and change was happening? Instead you imitated other MMORPGS, like WoW primarily. WoW is nothing to be proud of or imitate unless greed is your only motivation, which evidently it was. All the richness of the ST universe, the interspecies intrigues, the new emotional boundaries of exploring the galaxy, the seemingly unlimited nature of exploration and discoveries, are represented in only the most thin ways or not at all. This game could have been great and some think it is. But it's not. If your definition of great was to try to match Roddenberry's vision and take it faithfully forward, you have failed miserable. So poorly have you failed that what was the best story driven and successful TV show and movies of all time is now reduced to a poor game with grinding and endless patching due to poor programming and visionary insight. All that effort and money is being expended to keep your corporate greed afloat. I say let STO die if this is what Star Trek has been allowed to be abused and become.
Secondly and lastly, it's amazing to me how unimaginative and unoriginal this major game company is. Was it ever even discussed at some board meeting to take this game and be so original with game concepts that you might create a new game genre? That you might do so with such success that you became the best game company with the best game model in the business was a definite possibility with the ST universe to use. You could have put other companies on notice that their day had finally arrived and change was happening? Instead you imitated other MMORPGS, like WoW primarily. WoW is nothing to be proud of or imitate unless greed is your only motivation, which evidently it was. All the richness of the ST universe, the interspecies intrigues, the new emotional boundaries of exploring the galaxy, the seemingly unlimited nature of exploration and discoveries, are represented in only the most thin ways or not at all. This game could have been great and some think it is. But it's not. If your definition of great was to try to match Roddenberry's vision and take it faithfully forward, you have failed miserable. So poorly have you failed that what was the best story driven and successful TV show and movies of all time is now reduced to a poor game with grinding and endless patching due to poor programming and visionary insight. All that effort and money is being expended to keep your corporate greed afloat. I say let STO die if this is what Star Trek has been allowed to be abused and become.
Post edited by dysonsolar on
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Besides, while I have the greatest respect for Mr Roddenberry, in the end it doesn't really matter what Gene would have thought about STO; because he's can never be one of Cryptic's customers. The people who matter to STO, are the people who play it (of whom there are plenty thank you very much).
This is what the creators of ST:O have to work with. I think their doing a pretty good job trying to make it work. It's a good game but has some completely stupid elements in it, but thats the stuff that was put into the scripts, as shown on TV.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Why do some people who have probems with STO think they should invoke Roddenberry's name instead of just letting their argument stand on its own merits?
You're talking about a guy who originally tried to tack on his own lyrics to the TOS theme so that he would get a residual payment. Think about that for a second.
Yes, he created an amazingly entertaining television and movie series that we all enjoy getting to watch and now with STO, play in. He didn't create it out of some altruistic desire to improve the world or because he wanted to present what he thought was the ideal future society - he created Star Trek to get paid.
Sorry you don't like the game and feel it is unimaginative. Video games face challenges with telling stories that non-interactive forms of story telling (such as TV, movies, books)don't.
STO has some things about it that I don't enjoy, but overall, for a Trek-based MMO video game, its about what I expected.
The main issue I have isn't with the storytelling, just the small amount compared to other MMOs. I enjoy what there is, I just want a lot more of it.
If he did cry, he'd be wiping away his tears with 100 dollar bills.
Roddenberry and Lucas deserve praise for making bank while being labelled saints.
Star Trek marshmellow dispensers lol. Get that money Gene. From the graaaaaaaaaaaaave!
Seriously.
If you want to talk about Gene's "vision" you realize not a single thing in any part of canon actually conforms to his vision except Star Trek The Motion Picture (and they still kept him greatly in check in that V'ger was not in fact the literal Judeo-Christian God and there were lasers and something like action, and he actually got his way on what he wanted V'ger to be later and it managed to be even worse).
In his vision humanity was above disagreement - everybody thought alike, authority was absolute, and while humans still had emotion they were never ovecome by them. In short, there was no human drama. Humanity was also above conflict - they were so good that even the most evil races would eventually understand this and come to a nonviolent resolution. His original vision had Starfleet being completely unarmed and only the reality that people wanted ray gun fights out of their science fiction got any of that in there. Basically, his vision was a Utopia story where the Utopia never falls apart, is never damaged by outside forces, and reveals no sinister secrets on close inspection.
Fact is, none of that ever existed, and the parts that came close because of his increased personal involvement are widely criticized as low points of the franchise (Notable exception probably being Conspiracy - however had he not been involved it would have been closer to Paradise Lost, another popular and liked episode - Roddenberry's objection was that no Starfleet officer could ever be corrupt, let alone conspire against another), and some of them were almost enough to actually literally kill it. All the things that made Star Trek worth watching? That was the result of his direct involvement being limited to absent and other people who had ideas of what people would actually watch doing most of the actual work. Some of them were actual direct, intentional attacks on that vision that actually damaged the Utopia or laid bare its sinister secrets.
His vision remained in the form of oft-repeated slogans ("Humanity doesn't use money and is above greed," "Starfleet is not a military," and "The Federation respects the equality of sentient life whatever form it takes,") and were repeated the loudest when it was very clear they were just slogans: Talk of money was thickest while a human villain acted against the crew out of greed. Talk of Starfleet's peaceful mission increased when the shields were up and weapons charged. Respect for sentient life was highest while Riker vaporized a sleeping human because of the way he was born.
At least my Admiral has some military decorum.
Unless your name is actually Gene "Warbird1988" Roddenberry you aren't any more qualified to determine who understands Trek or to decide what it stands for than the OP.
Guess what? It means different things to different people.
So many self annointed One-True-Trek Prophets running around here these days. :rolleyes:
Also there have been tons of star trek novels, episodes and video games where they resort to violence, so it's not cryptics idea to make a shooter/space shooter out of it...did you also complain in forums concerning "Klingon Honor Guard", "Klingon Academy", "Away Team", "Elite FOrce" or "Shattered universe" forums that the game was not according to your opinion about what Roddenberry thought to be good or bad?
People hate Lucas for what he's done to Star Wars more than you realize. He's making bank because of Clone Wars and all the licensing marketed toward children.
Al Rivera hates Klingons
Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
All cloaks should be canon.
Star Trek fans often think that the popularity/fanbase is dramatically larger than it actually is. 'Awareness' is different to a genuine fan, and Star trek is generally regarded with amusement by the wider community. In order to be attractive to a wider audience for ongoing profitability, the nature of Trek needs to be adapted. Just remember that all decisions in STO are be based around financial security, not warm and fuzzy feelings, its a business after all. If STO was truly designed in Roddenbery's vision, it would be bankrupt and there would be no game.
Having said all that, I too would like a game more aligned with the Star Trek I remember, exploring strange new worlds and less shooting everything on site.
^^^
QFT - anyone who believes GR created Star Trek to promote his 'vision', or the 'help the world' really needs to read some biographies of the man or listen to the folks that worked with him on the original Star Trek and TNG for that matter.
As was stated above, the FIRDST thing GR would ask of Cryptic/PWE/CBS with regard to STO would be:
"What/Where's my cut?"
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
If GR was 'so against' a 'Space Pirate' episode, why did he personally write "Mudd's Women" in 1966(Harry Mudd can definitely be classed as a 'Space Pirate' in that episode'); and further, why was in in contention to be the follow up secomd pilot for the original Star Trek series (they eventually went with "Where No Man Has Gone Before"; but "Mudd's Women was one of the 4 scripts up for consideration.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
People need to stop treating Trek like it's the Constitution. Think about whatever your current favorite TV series or movie is, Trek or non Trek. Do you honestly believe that what you see is a representation of the screenplay, according to the way the writer originally envisioned it? I guarantee you, the majority of the time, it is not. Screenplays are edited, redrafted, cut, added to and etc. Trek is no different.
Oops. Almost forgot. This is the part where I am supposed to prominently display the length and quality of my fandom. So others whom are mere mortals can look upon me in awe and then fall down in blind worship of the One True Star Trek Prophet. Which will in turn add credence and strength to my otherwise self centered and selfish opinion.
Why is it everyone who "knows" what is "wrong" with STO feels compelled to whip Gene's name out at every available opportunity? And then, they feel compelled to let us know far more about themselves than we really want to. Is there is some sort of seniority among the fanbase, then? Would you like us to believe only those who have been here from the beginning are the only ones whose opinion matters? I've been a Star Trek fan as long as you have. Since this is the InterWebs, no one has any way of telling if I'm being truthful or not about how long I've been a fan. But the truthful part isn't really that important when I am expressing myself on the InterWebs so others will notice me, amiright? Based upon your own criteria, my opinion should carry the same weight as yours with all the lesser beings and mortals.
STO is a game! I say again, STO is a game! With subscriptions and microtransactions. Gene would love the fact he could turn a profit off of Star Trek all the time!
Gene created Star Trek to make money. Your beloved demigod would indeed be crying. All the way to the bank. I seriously doubt he ever thought Star Trek should be treated as the religion some fans would like to turn it into.
To Gene, Star Trek was a cash cow, not a sacred one.
Star Trek is a big enough tent there is room under it for all sorts of fans who may or may not enjoy all aspects of it. There are things about each of the series or films I am less than happy with. There certainly are things about STO I do not like. But for the first time ever in my life, I get to be Captain Kirk. How can this be a bad thing? Why would anyone who calls themselves a Star Trek fan remain as firmly fixed on the flaws and mistakes as so many here seem to do? News flash. They got it far more right than they did wrong. I am living the dream of a six year old boy who wanted more than anything else to beam down to that planet. To rescue Kirk, Spock and Bones from those nasty, ebil aliens.
But you keep on pontificating. I applaud your grit and determination to save the rest of us from this horrifyingly unclean blasphemy I spend about a half hour a day on. Bob and Tom are right. Sometimes the jokes write themselves.
This, numerous times over. Frankly, if Roddenberry were around for STO, it would probably be twice as expensive (he didn't have much shame in using the show to make the IDIC medal so he could make trinkets based on it to get a few extra cents out of it), we would have mostly click-through diplomacy missions, and most of the violence that would be there would involve killing various god-like beings as though doing so proves obscure philosophical points about religion.
Every Star Trek video game has been, unsurprisingly, a video game, which means, in most cases, violence. This is especially true among some of the target audiences. When I was a teenager (an extremely geeky one) I did not consider Captain Picard's diplomatic skills or the philosophical implications of Riker and Troi's relationship and its parallels to interrace relations on Earth, I wondered if they could rig up the main deflector to amplify the ship's firepower and how they could modify the saucer to mount heavy torpedo launchers. My fellow Star Trek geeks at the time were little different (except differing with me on the pragmatics of the deflector dish as a weapon - they thought adding some cannons to the Enterprise would give more bang for the buck).
If you want to put deep, thoughtful, philosophical elements into your experience, you will be far more successful picking up a Star Trek-based tabletop game, even if STO were to be tailored to the hypothetical "Gene Roddenberry" specifications, and you can restrict the show to whatever canon you want from it - there are some who reject every show after his death for instance, referring to the "Roddenberry canon." Most STO players aren't going to care about any of that - they will be far more interested in whether their Assault Cruiser can pulverize a Borg Cube more quickly than the Exploration Cruiser they turned it in for when they hit level 40.