A Review of the Relative Value of Fleet Ships

smi3th

Now that fleet shipyards are going active, it's time to have a look at the new ships that are coming available and see if they are worth getting.

I know that people look for different things in a ship and I'm not going to try to say that one category of ship is better than another. I do generally prefer tactical ships myself, but it is not my intent to impose my views of them onto others. Instead I will analyse each ship in terms of "benchmarks," existing ships which are similar to the one being considered. I will show how each given ship is different (better or worse) than the one it is being compared to.

Of course, the new fleet-only ships fall into two categories: the so-called "Fleet" ships and non-fleet ships. You have to be in a fleet to get either of them but the Fleet ships require a fleet requisition, which requires that real money be paid in the form of Zen points, whereas a non-fleet ship only requires that fleet credits be spent (though it requires ten times as many). Wherever possible I will compare a ship to a ship of the same category, i.e. a Fleet ship should be compared to a ship that costs Zen, whereas a non-fleet ship should be compared to one of the ship types that you receive free at 40th level.

Edit: I have recently learned that only Zen store Tier 5 ships qualify you for a discount on fleet ships so I have removed references to lower-tier discounts. If I missed any feel free to reply.

Yes, I know you can also buy one for 120,000 dilithium though I expect it is probably easier to get that than 200,000 fleet credits; you can grind that much in 15 days and you don't have to kiss your fleet leaders' behinds to do it.

Likewise the comparison between Fleet ships and Zen ships is not perfect, since a ship you purchase with Zen is playable on all your characters of that faction whereas a Fleet ship is only playable on the character that earned it. If you only have one character this is not an issue, but if you have eight (like myself - and I soon will have more) it makes a big difference. Since I have four KDF characters, when I bought the Guramba I was basically buying four of them.

Nevertheless I am going to try to evaluate the ships in comparison to existing ones. I rate them from one star (worst) to five stars (best). This is my rating scheme:

* Abysmal
The ship is considerably weaker than ships of its type (free or Zen) and offers no new loadout or abilities to make it worth experimenting with.

** Poor
The ship is either considerably weaker than ships of its type, but has some new design feature that sets it apart, or has no new features and is only slightly weaker than existing ships of its type.

*** Average
This ship is either comparable in power to an existing ship type or slightly weaker but adding new or interesting features. In my mind a fleet ship should be better than a ship of similar price since you also need to spend fleet credits to get it, but an average ship will make a worthwhile playing experience if you like that type of ship.

**** Good
This ship adds new features to existing ships with no loss in power or has no new features but is somewhat stronger. These are ships you should definitely consider getting.

***** Outstanding
This ship adds new features but is also more powerful than existing ships. I would say that these are a great value and are worth getting but also that you might find out that down the road PWE has nerfed them when players complain that they are too powerful.


=== Starfleet Tier 1 ===

Fleet Patrol Escort
Benchmark: Blockade Escort (formerly known as the Fleet Escort prior to season 6)
Rating: ****

I know I said that I would compare paid ships to paid ships but in this case the closest comparison is naturally to the unpaid version of this ship. In this case, the Fleet Escort is superior to the original Escort in a variety of ways. This is as you would expect for a paid version of an unpaid ship.

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields, +1 Universal Ensign Bridge slot.
Cons: No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot.

For starters the Fleet Patrol Escort is about 10% hardier than the basic escort, and the addition of an engineering console makes the ship even hardier. But what makes this ship really stand out is the universal Bridge slot which replaces the ensign engineering slot. So basically this ship can now do three jobs in one, and can act like a raptor or like an advanced cruiser. For this reason we won't see a fleet version of the Advanced Cruiser; this ship fills both roles. This one is definitely on my shopping list as a result, and I expect this ship to be popular.



Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel
Benchmark: Deep Space Science Vessel
Rating: ***

Twice in a row I've broken my own rule about comparing a paid ship to an unpaid ship, but the best comparison is once again the unpaid version of the Fleet ship. I base my rating on the basis that an average paid ship should be considerably better than the unpaid version. And it is.

Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +10% Shields, +10% Hull
Cons: none.

If you thought those science ships could really tank, look out because breaking the FDSSV is going to be a lot harder. It is 10% tougher and the extra science console means even more potent sci powers.

Sadly, while this ship does everything that the Deep Space Science Vessel does only better, it doesn't do anything new. For that reaon I rate it as average (***) but if you like flying science ships this is a good buy.



Fleet Research Science Vessel
Benchmark: Vulcan D'Kyr
Rating: ***

Choosing a benchmark for this ship was tough because there are several ships that are similar, but I went with the D'Kyr because the bridge officer slots are the same, and it also has the same number of sci and tac consoles. That much being said, the Fleet Research Science Vessel Is an interesting change from the D'Kyr.

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +66% Crew, +3 Turn rate
Cons: -7% Hull, -6% Shields, no Support Vessel

While the health stats of this ship are a bit lower than a D'Kyr, I feel that the extra engineering console will likely (depending on how it is used) balance this out, meaning that in the end you have a ship with similar capabilities as a D'Kyr but a lot more agility. The turn rate is 30% higher than the D'Kyr, though if your playing style doesn't require you to face your enemy you perhaps should consider getting the Fleet Deep-Space Science Vessel instead.

Comparing it against the other paid science ships gives similar results. Against the Advanced Research Retrofit you have an inferior bridge officer layout and even less hull by comparison, but your margin of turn rate is even higher. On the other hand, against the Long-Range Science Vessel Retrofit, you have a more flexible bridge officer layout and superior hull, but your turn rate is only slightly better. It stacks up well against any paid science ship as long as maneuverability is something you value.

Of course, the one thing it doesn't get are the nifty powers that these other ships have outside their stats such as Ablative Generator, Tachyon Detection grid, and Support Vessel. I would have made it four stars based on stats alone but unlike other paid science ships it has no special powers. On the other hand, if you don't care about those things then by all means consider this ship to be ****.



Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Benchmark: Advanced Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Rating: **

The difference between the FHCR and the AHCR mostly comes down to bridge officer layout.

Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +1 level 3 Engineering Bridge officer power, +1 level 1 Tactical Bridge Officer Power
Cons: -8% Hull, -6% Shield, -33% Crew, -1 level 3 Tactical Bridge officer power, -1 level 1 Engineering Bridge Officer Power, Transwarp Coil

In my mind the engineering focus of the FHCR is an inferior layout to the AHCR, which I consider more flexible. On top of that the ship is not as sturdy and the only thing it has to make up for it is an extra science console slot. The transwarp coil is not a huge loss as it is only used outside of combat, though I can see how players would find it handy. Overall this ship stacks up poorly against the AHCR.

You could also compare this ship to the Dreadnought Cruiser and the comparison is simpler:

Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -1% Hull, -6% Shield, -50% Crew, No Spinal Phaser Lance, No Cloaking Device

In this case I would say that the turn rate boost here is huge, but the problem with comparing it against the Dreadnought is that the Dreadnought has two special abilities which are both fairly powerful, so though it is hard to judge I would have to say that the FHCR is a bit weaker.

It is unclear if buying the original Advanced Heavy Cruiser (not the Retrofit) gives you a discount on this ship, but if it does and you qualify for the discount then you might consider this ship to be a *** instead.



Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Benchmark: Assault Cruiser
Rating: *

The Heavy Cruiser Retrofit has a lot in common with the Assault Cruiser. It has the same Bridge Officer layout, and the difference in listed consoles is strange enough that I suspect that it is a typo and that the Heavy Cruiser Retrofit has the same console slots as the Assault Cruiser (if not the listed console layout is one I consider inferior for this type of ship as you gain a science console at the expense of a tactical console).

Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Science Console.
Cons: -7% Hull, -15% Shields, -37% Crew. -1 Tactical Console.

So essentially you get a weaker ship and all you get to show for it is a +1 to turn rate. Now don't get me wrong; as a cruiser captain I'll take every point of turn rate I can get. But losing a tac console means less offensive power and I also have less defensive power. Overall I lose a lot for that +1 in turn rate.

If it does turn out that the console layout of this ship is a typo and the consoles are the same as an Assault Cruiser then I would raise the rating of this ship to **. However, it is still not a great buy. I'd hang on to your fleet credits and wait for higher tiers of ships.



=== Starfleet Tier 2 ===

Escort Retrofit
Benchmark: Blockade Escort
Rating: *

I had high hopes for this one as I love the look of the Ushaan-class (though I like to put a Rapier Hull on it) and would love to be able to fly one as a top-tier ship. Sadly, you still can't. The Escort Refit is quite weak compared to other ships in its class and gives you nothing new to compensate you for it.

Pros: None.
Cons: -13% Hull, -22% Shields, -75% Crew.

It's rather shocking but truly this ship gives you absolutely nothing you didn't have when you got your free Blockade Escort at level 40. No variant bridge officer slots, no console changes, nothing. Meanwhile it drastically reduces your shields, crew, and hull. I really can't see any reason someone would get this... if you really wanted a ship that looked like this you would just pay for the original ship with dilithium.

And that's sad because I would have liked to fly this ship had it been worthwhile. My preference would have been to keep the above stats but drastically increase the ship's turn rate, to 22 or so. If that was the case the Fleet Escort would have similar stats to a Bird-Of-Prey and would become the Federation's agile light escort (It would have less shields but more hull, and an extra weapon but no battle cloak). Had that been the case I would have happily picked one up but instead I get this piece of trash. Don't bother with this one unless PWE drastically improves it.


Fleet Escort Retrofit
Benchmark: Fleet Patrol Escort
Rating: *

Considering how abysmal the Escort Refit is, it comes as no surprise that the Fleet version is abominable as well. When compared against the Fleet Patrol Escort, which costs the same and is available a tier earlier, we can see that this ship stacks up very poorly against its competition:

Pros: +1 Ensign Engineering Bridge Slot
Cons: -1 Ensign Universal Bridge Slot, -11% Hull, -22% Shields, -75% Crew.

So once again we see a drastic reduction in resiliency and on top of that there's the loss of a universal bridge slot in favour of a specific one. Very lame. In fact, even though the Fleet Escort Refit is hardier than the non-fleet version, it is still considerably less hardy than the free Blockade Escort:

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot.
Cons: -2% Hull, -14% Shields, -75% Crew.

Would you give up twenty bucks and 14% of your shields for an extra engineering slot? I wouldn't - even though console slots are always handy, what resilience you gain from the slot you would be spending to compensate for your shield loss.



Fleet Star Cruiser
Benchmark: Star Cruiser
Rating: ***

The Closest comparison for the Fleet Star Cruiser is naturally the non-fleet version, so we would have to expect that the Fleet version of this ship would be considerably better as you have to pay Zen for it. And we are not disappointed:

Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields.
Cons: None.

This seems to be the formula for Fleet Versions of free level 40 ships - a 10% increase in hull and shields and an extra console slot. In this case if you like flying the Star Cruiser then you will enjoy this ship also.

In case you wanted to see how this ship stacks up against a paid ship, the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit is the closest analog:

Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +7% Hull, +10% Shields, +1 Turn Rate, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Officer Slot.
Cons: -1 Engineering Ensign Bridge Officer Slot, no saucer separation.

As you can see, though it loses the Saucer Separation ability it still has things to make players choose this ship over the Exploration Cruiser. Sadly, It doesn't do anything new, unlike the Fleet Patrol Escort which gives you a universal Ensign slot. So while this is a decent purchase I would not say it is outstanding. But if you like the Star Cruiser you should definitely consider this one.



Fleet Reconnaisance Science Vessel Retrofit
Benchmark: Reconnaisance Science Vessel
Rating: ***

Once again we have an upgraded version of a level 40 free ship and it seems to follow the same formula as the others:

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields.
Cons: None.

This is a nice upgrade and makes this nimble science vessel a little more hardy. It doesn't do anything new but it does exactly what the RSV did and takes more punishment. Against paid ships the comparison is tougher since none of them have the tactical focus the FRSVR has, but the FRSVR still gets 10% more shields than any of them and though its hull advantage is not as large (against some it loses hull), its turn rate is better than any of the other paid science ships. In my mind the extra console and shields offset the loss of a special ability and thus the FRSVR is a decent buy. However, like the Fleet Star Cruiser above it doesn't do anything new; it's just a tougher version of an old ship, so it is rated ***.


=== Starfleet Tier 3 ===

Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
Benchmark: Tactical Escort Retrofit
Rating: ***

The Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, or FTER for short, is essentially an up-gunned version of the Tactical Escort Retrofit. It doesn't do anything new but it does what the TER does even better. These are the differences:

Pros: +1 Tactical Console Slot, +10% Hull.
Cons: None.

As you can see the differences aren't drastic. But what is worthy of note is that the extra tactical slot gives this ship five tactical console slots. That makes this ship the only Starfleet vessel to have this many, and the only KDF vessel to have five tac consoles is the tactical version of the Bortas'qu cruiser, which is extemely slow, and is no real comparison to this ship. This basically means that the FTER arguably has the best firepower in the game, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

I'm not completely raving about this ship because it still has the tactical bridge ensign slot which I'm not crazy about. It also doesn't give you a +10% to shields which most fleet upgrades seem to do. But if you already have the TER then this ship only costs 5 bucks and if so I would definitely pick it up - I'd rate the ship as **** for anyone who can get the discount.




Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
Benchmark: Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
Rating: ***

The Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit, or FARVR for short, is an improved version of the ARVR, which is already a decent ship. Like most upgrades, the FARVR essentially adds an extra console and some resilience:

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields.
Cons: None.

Since the FARVR, like its predecessor has a universal Lieutenant slot, it is a devent ship to being with and the added engineering slot means that the FARVR can tank better than any other science ship. However, like its predecessor it has the slowest turn rate of any Starfleet science vessel.

If you are eligible for the discount I would rate this ship at ****.



Science Vessel Retrofit
Benchmark: Reconnaisance Science Vessel
Rating: *

Like the look of the Nova and wish you could fly it at level 50? Well, there's the Science Vessel Retrofit, available from your fleet at tier 3. Unfortunately the SVR is very weak even compared to the free vessels you can get at level 40, and therefore if you try to fly this ship against oppoents who are level 50 you will probably get owned:

Pros: +1 Turn Rate.
Cons: -23% Shields, -8% Hull, -71% Crew.

Frankly, if you want a ship that looks like a Nova and you didn't get one at level 10 I would go back and pay dilithium for it rather than shell out 200,000 Fleet Credits. The only reason you would fly this ship is to humiliate other players by pwning them with a vastly inferior ship. Stay away from this stinker.



Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit
Benchmark: Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
Rating: **

The Fleet Science Vessel Retrofit, like the non-fleet verstion, gives a sacrifice in resilience, though in this case we get an extra console slot to make up for it:

Pros: +1 Tactical Console Slot, +2% Hull, +2 Turn Rate.
Cons: -15% Shields, -50% Crew, no Ablative Generator.

Overall I do not consider this a great buy, though it is not as weak as the non-fleet version. The extra console and turn rate does mean that this ship hits harder than most science vessels, but nevertheless it's just a trade-off and in this comparison you lose the Ablative Generator of the LRSVR. Also, since this is based on a tier 2 ship there will not be a discount even if you bought the Rhode Island refit for $7.50. Frankly, if this is the kind of ship you want I would hold out for the Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit. Here's how this ship stacks up against it:

Pros: +2 Turn Rate.
Cons: -22% Shields, -8% Hull, -50% Crew.

Aside from the turn rate boost the Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit is the same or better in every regard. The only downside of the Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit is that it is not available until tier 5 so you will have to wait a while before they come out. As an added bonus if you already have the LRSVR then you get the Ablative Generator and the FLRSVR ship costs a lot less.

---

That's all for now, folks. More tiers to follow.


Peet Smi3th

PS - a version of this article for KDF ships appears here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=4932001&posted=1#post4932001

dknight0001

smi3th wrote: »

Fleet Patrol Escort
Benchmark: Blockade Escort (formerly known as the Fleet Escort prior to season 6)
Rating: ****

I know I said that I would compare paid ships to paid ships but in this case the closest comparison is naturally to the unpaid version of this ship. In this case, the Fleet Escort is superior to the original Escort in a variety of ways. This is as you would expect for a paid version of an unpaid ship.

Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields, +1 Universal Ensign Bridge slot.
Cons: No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot.

I find it a bit hard say that the lack on an engineering ensign is a con when it's been replaced with a Universal Ensign. This ship logically has no cons as it's become far more flexible.

mehen

dknight0001 wrote: »

I find it a bit hard say that the lack on an engineering ensign is a con when it's been replaced with a Universal Ensign. This ship logically has no cons as it's become far more flexible.

Aye, and it explains why there is no Fleet Adv. Escort, either, when you can slot a science boff in the universal station. If any ship got a great upgrade in the transition, it's the Blockade Escort.

dknight0001

Mehen, Turns out there is a Fleet Advanced Escort, but it's not showing up in the Shipyards yet. I'm hoping it has the MVAE Lt.Com Sci BOFF but.

r37

I'm a bit miffed they didn't buff the shield mod on the fleet Defiant & just left it with out any other improvements. I have no real issue with some of the bigger changes going on for a few ships, but there should at least be a solid baseline that everything gets buffed by. If they want to make it structurally weaker that's fine so long as there's something to offset the loss. It may only be 1k shield hp, but you are still being asked to pay real money for it. It should at least stack up with the others.

Another console, battle cloak, more hull, higher defence , a universal Lt.Com+Lt for flexibility... ok that's a little much, but a uni ensign should work fine.

mehen

dknight0001 wrote: »

Mehen, Turns out there is a Fleet Advanced Escort, but it's not showing up in the Shipyards yet. I'm hoping it has the MVAE Lt.Com Sci BOFF but.

Yeah, but unlike the Fleet AC, it never showed up on Tribble...so I'm not holding out much hope. But yeah, it would make sense for the Advcort to follow in the stats of the MVAE, since the Advcort's original build is now redundant. It'd be like any other CStore ship turning into a Fleet vessel in that you'd buy it from the store for the console (and maybe the skin).

smi3th

dknight0001 wrote: »

I find it a bit hard say that the lack on an engineering ensign is a con when it's been replaced with a Universal Ensign.

As I explained in my KDF post, I am not saying this is a bad thing. I am just making a list of the things you get that you didn't have and the things that you had but no longer get.

You'll note that I give this ship a good rating, ****. I too was quite impressed with this and think it is a vast improvement and I say so in the review.

mehen wrote: »

Yeah, but unlike the Fleet AC, it never showed up on Tribble...so I'm not holding out much hope. But yeah, it would make sense for the Advcort to follow in the stats of the MVAE, since the Advcort's original build is now redundant. It'd be like any other CStore ship turning into a Fleet vessel in that you'd buy it from the store for the console (and maybe the skin).

Well remember that the Advanced Escort and the Blockade Escort are both ships that are free at level 40 so they are still both viable ships.

So far none of the 2000+ Zen costing Zen Store ships have been made into Fleet Ships and I expect that PWE figures that if you want one you just go to the fleet store; there's no need to make a Fleet version.

Peet

rayezilla

What are your thoughts on the fleet assault cruiser versus the fleet HEC for an eng captain?

I know I'm comparing apples to oranges but I could use some input

dknight0001

smi3th wrote: »

As I explained in my KDF post, I am not saying this is a bad thing. I am just making a list of the things you get that you didn't have and the things that you had but no longer get.

You'll note that I give this ship a good rating, ****. I too was quite impressed with this and think it is a vast improvement and I say so in the review.

Traditionally in a list of Pros and Cons, the Con is a bad thing, although I realised later I'm just nitpicking.

smi3th wrote: »

Well remember that the Advanced Escort and the Blockade Escort are both ships that are free at level 40 so they are still both viable ships.

So far none of the 2000+ Zen costing Zen Store ships have been made into Fleet Ships and I expect that PWE figures that if you want one you just go to the fleet store; there's no need to make a Fleet version.

Peet

Sorry if I have I completely misunderstood you?

Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier, Fleet Tactical Escort, Fleet Advanced Escort, Fleet Exploration Cruiser, Fleet Nebula, Fleet Long Range Sci Vessel.

All ships that are 2000 or 2500 Zen and all have a Fleet Version.

The the thing I find weird, most of these ships you'd own for the console are 4 FSM (2000 points) without the console or if you previously bought it 1 FSM (2500+500) and you get the console.

smi3th

dknight0001 wrote: »

Sorry if I have I completely misunderstood you?

Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier, Fleet Tactical Escort, Fleet Advanced Escort, Fleet Exploration Cruiser, Fleet Nebula, Fleet Long Range Sci Vessel.

All ships that are 2000 or 2500 Zen and all have a Fleet Version.

I missed the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier, you are right. But of the others, as far as I know:

Fleet Tactical Escort - a version of a level 30 free ship. Upgrade to the free ship is 1500 Zen.

Fleet Advanced Escort - a version of a free ship. No upgrade exists unless you mean the multi-vector ship which the Fleet version is not. And actually this ship is not yet listed in the shipyards so we may never get it, and we don't need to since the Fleet Patrol Escort basically does both jobs.

Fleet Exploration Cruiser - a version of a level 30 free ship. Upgrade to the free ship is 1500 Zen.

Fleet Nebula - based on an an upgrade to a level 20 free ship which costs 1000 Zen.

Fleet Long Range Sci Vessel - a version of a level 30 free ship. Upgrade to the free ship is 1500 Zen.

This is my understanding but if you can direct me to an official page on the website that contradicts me please do. It is confusing since many of the ships have similar names.

If so I'm not sure how I feel about it because on the one hand it makes the fleet ship more expensive if you didn't have the non-fleet version (buying the Zen store ship just for the discount loses you money), whereas you will be happy if the ship you already bought is one which has a Fleet Version.

There's definitely no 2000+ Zen ships as fleet ships on the KDF side. A lot of KDF players are unhappy that there's no Fleet Guramba. Also none of the Gorn ships made it into Fleet Ships.

Peet

smi3th

rayezilla wrote: »

What are your thoughts on the fleet assault cruiser versus the fleet HEC for an eng captain?

I know I'm comparing apples to oranges but I could use some input

I did not see a Fleet Assault Cruiser the last time I checked my fleet shipyard. So I am not aware that there is one.

I am not sure which ship you mean by HEC either. If you are talking about the Exploration Cruisers, it really comes down to what sort of ship you like. Exploration Cruisers are all-out engineering. Assault Cruisers have a little more tactical juice because of console layout and because they swap the eng ensign with a tac ensign. Generally I prefer the tactical angle but it all depends on how you play. Also Assault Cruisers turn slightly faster but have slightly less hull.

Peet

smi3th

Tier 2 is up. Added to original post.

Peet

dalnar83

You have a mistake there. Fleet recon gets another tac console, not engineering one.

rayezilla

Oh, sorry about that: I'm comparing

Fleet assault cruiser: http://tinyurl.com/cglnzg7

with the

Fleet heavy escort carrier: http://tinyurl.com/cot3ecj

note: I am an eng captain, looking for a ship that can tank a tac cube but also do high damage. Also, on the fleet assault cruiser refit, it's hard to see but the last Lt. boff slot is universal.

lilchibiclari

smi3th wrote: »

I am not sure which ship you mean by HEC either.
Peet

HEC = Heavy Escort Carrier

smi3th

rayezilla wrote: »

Oh, sorry about that: I'm comparing

Fleet assault cruiser: http://tinyurl.com/cglnzg7

with the

Fleet heavy escort carrier: http://tinyurl.com/cot3ecj

note: I am an eng captain, looking for a ship that can tank a tac cube but also do high damage. Also, on the fleet assault cruiser refit, it's hard to see but the last Lt. boff slot is universal.

Okay, I'm sorry, thought we were still talking about cruisers.

Yes, it is apples and oranges - escorts and cruisers play very differently, so it depends on your playing style. The best advice anyone can give you is to buy something you will enjoy using.

If you have already paid for the Heavy Escort Carrier then the Fleet Version is a steal at 500 Zen. It adds 10% shields and an extra console to an already great ship. The thing about the Heavy Escort Carrier is that it is a top-level escort that adds a hangar bay and doesn't lose anything in the process. That's why it costs 2500 Zen.

As for the Fleet Assault Cruiser, it hits harder than a regular cruiser, and the universal slot is nice, but against borg you need those Hazard Emitters so in my mind it might as well have been a sci slot. If you are good at flying cruisers it might be worth it, but if you are used to flying escorts you will find the low turn rate to be just painful.

Peet

dknight0001

smi3th wrote: »

I missed the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier, you are right. But of the others, as far as I know:

Fleet Tactical Escort - a version of a level 30 free ship. Upgrade to the free ship is 1500 Zen.

Fleet Advanced Escort - a version of a free ship. No upgrade exists unless you mean the multi-vector ship which the Fleet version is not. And actually this ship is not yet listed in the shipyards so we may never get it, and we don't need to since the Fleet Patrol Escort basically does both jobs.

Fleet Exploration Cruiser - a version of a level 30 free ship. Upgrade to the free ship is 1500 Zen.

Fleet Nebula - based on an an upgrade to a level 20 free ship which costs 1000 Zen.

Fleet Long Range Sci Vessel - a version of a level 30 free ship. Upgrade to the free ship is 1500 Zen.

This is my understanding but if you can direct me to an official page on the website that contradicts me please do. It is confusing since many of the ships have similar names.

If so I'm not sure how I feel about it because on the one hand it makes the fleet ship more expensive if you didn't have the non-fleet version (buying the Zen store ship just for the discount loses you money), whereas you will be happy if the ship you already bought is one which has a Fleet Version.

There's definitely no 2000+ Zen ships as fleet ships on the KDF side. A lot of KDF players are unhappy that there's no Fleet Guramba. Also none of the Gorn ships made it into Fleet Ships.

Peet

The Fleet Tactical Escort is an upgrade to the T5 Tactical Escort Retrofit.
The Fleet Advanced Escort does have the MVAE BOFF layout.
The Fleet Nebula appears to be an upgrade to the T5 version.
The Fleet Exploration Escort appears to be an upgrade to the T5 Exploration.
The Fleet Long Range Sci Vessel appears to be an upgrade to the T5 Long Range Sci Vessel

All these ships come with a special console at T5. That Console is limited to only that hull type. I seriously think that all the Fleet ships are improvements of the T5 not the T3/T4 versions.

synthiasuicide

Well I broke down and bought the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit.
I love ships that you can Customize. Hate ships you cant, like the Damn Oddy.
I knew it wasnt really an upgrade over the other cruisers I fly, Dread, Assault Cruiser, Oddy, etc.
The extra Sci console slot just makes up for its lesser Shield mod by Stacking a 3rd Shield Gen.

The Difference is the turn. Which puts it on par with the Excelsior. Which I went back and forth over which to buy. But I love the look of the Model from the Stargazer/Dakota more then the Excelsior, so Im not Dissapointed at all.
Great little ship. Plus grinded too much already into Fleet Starbase to feel like it was waisted so far so that also pushed me. lol
But, complete Vanity purchase for sure. The ship shouldn't be less then its counterparts in Hull and Shield. That feels wrong.

chi1701d

Would like to point out that the Fleet Research Space Science Vessel has a shield modifier of 1.22, and retrofit of 1.1. The basic model has a shield mod of 1.3. So the retrofit and fleet versions have a negative value on shield strength than the previous model.

Goes the same with Science vessel to retrofit and fleet. (Nova)

So, the descriptions should say, increased hull hit points and reduced shield strength lol

smi3th

synthiasuicide wrote: »

Well I broke down and bought the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit.
I love ships that you can Customize. Hate ships you cant, like the Damn Oddy.
I knew it wasnt really an upgrade over the other cruisers I fly, Dread, Assault Cruiser, Oddy, etc.
The extra Sci console slot just makes up for its lesser Shield mod by Stacking a 3rd Shield Gen.

The Difference is the turn. Which puts it on par with the Excelsior. Which I went back and forth over which to buy. But I love the look of the Model from the Stargazer/Dakota more then the Excelsior, so Im not Dissapointed at all.
Great little ship. Plus grinded too much already into Fleet Starbase to feel like it was waisted so far so that also pushed me. lol
But, complete Vanity purchase for sure. The ship shouldn't be less then its counterparts in Hull and Shield. That feels wrong.

Well, as I mention the Fleet Heavy Cruiser isn't a great buy in terms of stats, but it is the only fleet cruiser with a tactical angle. The Star Cruiser is sci and the Exploration Cruiser is eng. Of course there's also the Oddysey in case you don't mind everyone else out-turning you.

If enough players raise their voices about it PWE might beef the stats for this ship.

And that would be a good thing.

smi3th

chi1701d wrote: »

Would like to point out that the Fleet Research Space Science Vessel has a shield modifier of 1.22, and retrofit of 1.1. The basic model has a shield mod of 1.3. So the retrofit and fleet versions have a negative value on shield strength than the previous model.

Goes the same with Science vessel to retrofit and fleet. (Nova)

So, the descriptions should say, increased hull hit points and reduced shield strength lol

Yes, it is true that the FRSV has less shields than other comparable ships. If you look on the list you will see I benchmark it against the D'Kyr and against that it has -7% Hull and -6% Shields. Against other science ships its hull compares better but its turn rate advantage is less. Overall the drop in shields is small enough that I am willing to give this one a go, considering the turn rate boost it gets.

As to the other ones you mention, they are Tier III and I haven't got to those yet, but as you might guess my rating for them is not very high.

Peet

bloctoad

Very informative thread. Kudos to you smi3th.

mehen

Fyi, you only get the 75% discount if you purchased a T5-level CStore vessel. So if you bought the 1000 Zen Nebula, you won't get a discount. Same with the Gladius, or Bellerophon.

And honestly, the science ships were poorly done in regards to their console additions. While the escorts/cruisers generally obtained the proper console addition, I think you could only say the same for half of the fleet science ships. The Nebula, LRSV, and DSSV all got stupid bonuses that don't line up with their stations. So I would automatically deduct one star from those three unless you were planning on slotting a universal console in the addition.

The Hope is an odd ship; you can technically recreate it with a Nebula, sans turn rate. I'm sure you can use it for plenty of odd roles, but I doubt it'll fill a niche like the DSSV or Recon. The Nova, on the other hand, is a nifty craft that will be fun and effective to command. Aside from the Recon, the Nova might be the most balanced of the science craft.

innuwarrior

For one thing I must disagree with your evaluation of the fleet heavy cruiser retrofit. Its a great cruiser with good maneuvrability and comparable console to ody tac cruiser which I have also. I'm an engineer and its great as a support/attack role. Add an RCS console and your close to sci ship maneuvrability. The extra ensign tac permit me to have 2 tt and 1 faw. Which help for support and/or survability and faw for threat control (blockade with freighter for instance, better to have ennemy shoot at you than freighter) and many at once (ka probe).

Since I load 3 DB up front and 5 beams. The extra maneuvrability helps to keep those high punch beam on target much easier than any other cruiser I have. The extra maneuvrability and speed also help to target Ejact warp plasma accuratly with evasive. Can get a maximum of ship in fleet event in no time and I don't have to worry to much about overshooting when using it which you have to be real careful with the ody or even assault cruiser.

To finish I love the look of the ship, some ppl mistake it for an advanced escort and ask me why I put only beam on an escort They only thing I wish I could do with it is put DHC up front. So, for an engineer, its a great support ship with decent firepower comparable to or superior to any other cruiser (3 tac console) save dreadnought maybe and something you need saucer separation to get with any other cruiser, maneuverability.

The other one I not really an accord with you is the fleet defiant. I has 5 tac console so my tac toon with the defiant will be even more deadly ( already a 4-6k+ dps monster, always get 1first place at starbase 24 in every fleet event we have). And, since I already have the retro defiant I will be able to use the cloak without sacrificing anything compare to regular version which in my view is a good advantage. On top of that you get 3k more hull which will help with survability.

Other than that great writing, even if I don't completely agree with you doesn't mean I don't appreciate the work you do

gpgtx

also not to mention it will now have 600 more hull then the excelsior as gecko said the buff to the excelsior was in error

synthiasuicide

Hmm, can't think of a time when 600 hull difference woulda meant anything. lol

Love the FHCR, But still think several of these fleet ships could use a bit more to warrant buying them over account wide C-Store ships.
I mean I coulda bought the Excelsior and my toons coulda shared it. No Grind needed.
Just looking like the "Best" fleet ships are pretty much the ones that also have a C Store Variant.

Unless your like me and Really want a endgame version of a ship you enjoyed at early levels. Loved the Heavy Cruiser when leveing but how long that last? 2 nights maybe at that level? lol

gpgtx

600 doesn't mean much but he was marking the fleet heavy for being down on hull now it has more even if it is a small amount

innuwarrior

gpgtx wrote: »

also not to mention it will now have 600 more hull then the excelsior as gecko said the buff to the excelsior was in error

Not only excelsior but assault cruiser also

synthiasuicide

Where was this Info posted? I don't get that much time on the forums but I didnt see any new notes about that.

khayuung

This is probably the wrong thread for it, but I'm not so sure about how to get Fleet ships that have C-store variants? Is this where the FSM modules come into play?

innuwarrior

khayuung wrote: »

This is probably the wrong thread for it, but I'm not so sure about how to get Fleet ships that have C-store variants? Is this where the FSM modules come into play?

You need 1 ship module if you own the Zen-Store variant and you need 4 if you don't own it.