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Forums > Home› Feedback› Federation Discussion

Expensive ships are expensive...

ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2012 in Federation Discussion
I do understand that Cryptic gets their living from ship sales, but at this point ships are expensive.

so fleet ships are coming out. that makes the retrofit ships somewhat expired (?). the fleet ships are the same price, gets you better stats, one more console slot, and no uniqe console. I must say, if the retrofit prices do not decrease, they do not worth the money (or at least they should give you the retfit skin, because at this point you only get a console).

however the decreased prices would apply for the fleet ships too. you have to grind for it plus you have to pay for it.

I am not saying they should be a lot cheaper, but I would not mind a 500 Zen decrease somewhere (I would say the retrofit, because it is inferior, basically you buy the console)

btw did not cryptic say, that fleet ships will be cheaper? because at that point you have to pay the same, plus you have to get fleet credits, plus you need a fleet with the required military tier, and ship resources (which ideally you will have to help in)
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
Post edited by ferdzso0 on

Comments

  • ryanevryanev Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    The situation is comlicated and can be summerized in the following way:

    Fleet Ships
    Cost Fleet Credits
    Cost Ship Modules (Equal to 2k zen)
    Require Dedication to the fleet or at least strong fleet.

    Pros:
    Strongest Ships in the game
    Not all that expensive because Ship modules can be bought from the exchange

    Cons:
    Character unlock
    No console
    Depend of fleet for acquiring them

    Zen Store Ships:
    Cost Zen Points - about 2500

    Pros:
    Account unlock
    Bonus Console
    No need for fleet to get them.

    Cons:
    Require either Dilithium or Zen, no way around it.
    Not as strong as their fleet version.
  • thratch1thratch1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I mentioned in another thread, but endgame content is currently tuned to be T5 anyway. It's not like ********, where you need more powerful gear to move forward; all these Fleet ships will do is make the current PVE game easier, and give you an edge in PVP.

    Considering how tough they've made it to get up to the Fleet ships anyway, the C-Store ships you already have will do you just fine.

    EDIT:
    Wow. Just wow. They censored War Craft. WoW.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    thratch1 wrote: »
    Considering how tough they've made it to get up to the Fleet ships anyway, the C-Store ships you already have will do you just fine.

    I can't say it is though. the tough part is to get a fleet (yes it is very very very hard to get a fleet long range retro for example, if you start from zero military tier in the fleet, but here then the price reduction would be nice) with military tier X (insert the tier you need). the rest is cakewalk. each ship costs 20k fleet creds (if I did not miss a 0 from the end) and 2k Zen.

    in one hour this morning I collected 4k fleet credits, so you can get it in less then a day. while the 2k zen equals some retrofits (which have weaker console, for example the Tac escort retro will be better bought as a fleet ship, because I dont think the cloak is that useful - especially not over the better stats)
    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
  • hakaishinlegionhakaishinlegion Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    There's a reason SOB is concentrating 100% of our resources exclusively on Military for the time being (yes, you can only raise 2 military projects at a time, but this keeps the fleet from exerting resources where they aren't needed and military will be raised much faster since we won't have to farm for NEARLY as many resources to get the same result).

    Work smarter, not harder. :D I can't even stand to do any PvE. It makes me feel dirty and bores me to tears. The less I'm forced to do it just to get the effect in PvP I desire, the better.

    WTB GW2, where I can advance 100% in PvP and never be forced to so much as touch PvE at all ever in the game if I choose and still come out with the best equipment in the game...

    ...for free, no less.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
  • rrincyrrincy Member Posts: 1,023
    edited July 2012
    I dont understand why everyones flying into a rage over the fleet ships costing zen , when by the time the starbase has actually UNLOCKED the ability to purchase those ships , you could easily have grinded enough dilithium to be able to buy it :rolleyes:
    12th Fleet
    Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
    U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Because one console slot and few thousand of hps costs 2000 ZEN. That's something you create in database in few minutes, there is no work behind, no new skin, no new abilities, nothing, its just milking the customer.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • hakaishinlegionhakaishinlegion Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    rrincy wrote: »
    I dont understand why everyones flying into a rage over the fleet ships costing zen , when by the time the starbase has actually UNLOCKED the ability to purchase those ships , you could easily have grinded enough dilithium to be able to buy it :rolleyes:

    Because PvE ****fest grinding nonsense is not enjoyable, and we feel we should not be forced to grind for a year to get something that would actually contribute to a tip in the power scale in PvP - the only enjoyable mode to many of us within the game - and we should not be forced to do something we don't enjoy in a game we are meant to enjoy just to do the one mode in the game we actually DO enjoy.

    /rant
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "Yes, I fly a Galaxy-X... and yes, I just 1-shotted you with it." -- Alcione@Hakaishin
  • rrincyrrincy Member Posts: 1,023
    edited July 2012
    i think what they need to do is implement a pvp way of getting fleet marks to be honest , maybe add them to the pvp rewards for fed vs klingons >_>
    as for the actual grinding involved , sure it takes a while for starbases to level up , but you dont have to really grind much to do it really :| whats the actual grind , EC? duty officers which everyone more than likely has coming out their ears or provisions ? theres only really the fleet marks , and if they add those to pvp that'll ease the grindfest somewhat , that or if you have pve orientated people in the same fleet , they could donate the marks neccesary

    at least they made it cheaper to get a fleet version of a c store ship if you already own it :rolleyes: buying the same ship twice would suck heavily
    12th Fleet
    Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
    U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    ferdzso0 wrote: »
    I do understand that Cryptic gets their living from ship sales, but at this point ships are expensive.

    so fleet ships are coming out. that makes the retrofit ships somewhat expired (?). the fleet ships are the same price, gets you better stats,


    The Fleet Ships are not the same price.

    The Fleet Ships are per character, not per account.

    I've used my Defiant-R on at least 4 different characters at different times, and it's infinitely available to every character I ever make once they hit VA.

    You can't do the same with the Fleet Ships.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    rrincy wrote: »
    i think what they need to do is implement a pvp way of getting fleet marks to be honest , maybe add them to the pvp rewards for fed vs klingons >_>
    as for the actual grinding involved , sure it takes a while for starbases to level up , but you dont have to really grind much to do it really :| whats the actual grind , EC? duty officers which everyone more than likely has coming out their ears or provisions ? theres only really the fleet marks , and if they add those to pvp that'll ease the grindfest somewhat , that or if you have pve orientated people in the same fleet , they could donate the marks neccesary

    at least they made it cheaper to get a fleet version of a c store ship if you already own it :rolleyes: buying the same ship twice would suck heavily

    Ahhh, BUT... the price increases for every character needing the fleet version. So for example, instead of paying 500 Zen to get an account-wide upgrade for my Defiant-R, I need to pay 1000, due to needing not one, but TWO modules. Furthermore, buying any other meaningful ship takes 2000 Zen PER CHARACTER. So if I want to have a fleet Aquarius on both my characters, i need 4000 Zen, aka somewhere about 40$. Now do you see the problem?

    And to the guy who said that they're not actually so expensive due to Exchange, how much do you think it'll sell for? 500k? 1m? 5m? 10m??? No, it'll sell for 50m+ EC.
    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • thratch1thratch1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    dalolorn wrote: »
    And to the guy who said that they're not actually so expensive due to Exchange, how much do you think it'll sell for? 500k? 1m? 5m? 10m??? No, it'll sell for 50m+ EC.

    Doubtful.

    I mean, let's assume that, just for a little while, we start seeing Modules sitting on the Exchange for 50 million EC.

    The average lockbox ship sits on the Exchange for around 100M, from what I see.

    That means, for 1000 ZEN, you could sell Modules to pay for a Lockbox ship, which were all buffed to Fleet ship standards.

    Somehow I just don't see that working for very long, and the prices for Modules will drop significantly, if it even reaches that price.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    thratch1 wrote: »
    Wow. Just wow. They censored War Craft. WoW.

    I wish ToR's forum did this. It might be possible to talk about something other than how the game's a WoW clone.
  • lordfuzunlordfuzun Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    rrincy wrote: »
    I dont understand why everyones flying into a rage over the fleet ships costing zen , when by the time the starbase has actually UNLOCKED the ability to purchase those ships , you could easily have grinded enough dilithium to be able to buy it :rolleyes:

    It's because their lead systems guy said in an interview last week that the Fleet Ships will cost less then the C-Store ships. Because the C-Store ships are an account unlock.

    Whereas when Season 6 launched, the Fleet Ships are PER CHARACTER and cost as much as a C-Store ship. THAT is what people are up in arms about. You have 12 characters? Well that's upwards of $240US to equipment them with fleet ships. It's upwards because if you happen to have purchased a C-Store base of a Fleet ship, it will only cost $5. Free/token ships don't count.
  • valasveladornvalasveladorn Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Wait, this is the first I've heard that you have to have literally purchased the ship to get the Fleet version -- so my Veteran unlock of the Defiant-R on my Tac is going to cost 2k Zen to upgrade even though I already own the ship? That concerns me, as I misunderstood and thought that as long as it is a ship you already possess you can upgrade for 500.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mehenmehen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    So I guess the dev's idea of "much cheaper" actually means you pay just as much as a C-Store ship. The end-game ships (Defiant, LRSV, Gal-R, etc) are all 2000Zen now, so if you buy one of those you wind up paying 2500Zen for the fleet version. Oh hey, that's the same amount as all of their new ships! Go figure...

    Fact is, everyone just got con'd by the devs, who promised lowered prices for special ships. Instead, all we got was a simplistic skin and a few numeric changes. But oh yeah, it was a LOT of work for them, so why don't you go ahead and ignore the fact that you are paying just as much money as before. :(
  • benglowbenglow Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    valasveladorn wrote: »
    Wait, this is the first I've heard that you have to have literally purchased the ship to get the Fleet version -- so my Veteran unlock of the Defiant-R on my Tac is going to cost 2k Zen to upgrade even though I already own the ship? That concerns me, as I misunderstood and thought that as long as it is a ship you already possess you can upgrade for 500.

    500 Zen or (ATM) 6.750.00 Energy Credits
    not 2k Zen
  • suricattasuricatta Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Actually, the problem is that the Fleet ships cost 'more' than C-store ships. Not only do you need the modules, but you also need the Fleet credits as well (something C-store ships do not).

    Ideally, what they should of done is set the ships to require 2-3 modules, but only 1 if you own the C-store ship (as it is now). Having the ships require all the effort to unlock them, the fleet credits 'and' cost the same as an account unlock ship is madness.

    The other huge issue is that they have bloated the top tier ships so much that adding new ships in the future, or even new tiers of ships is going to cause major anger in the community by those that spent money on ships. They've been far too focused on short term objectives and not looked at how this will effect the ship tier system in the longterm.
  • mkilczewskimkilczewski Member Posts: 284
    edited July 2012
    hakaishinlegion wrote: »
    Because PvE ****fest grinding nonsense is not enjoyable, and we feel we should not be forced to grind for a year to get something that would actually contribute to a tip in the power scale in PvP - the only enjoyable mode to many of us within the game - and we should not be forced to do something we don't enjoy in a game we are meant to enjoy just to do the one mode in the game we actually DO enjoy.

    /rant

    Then don't do it.
  • chakittychakitty Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Ok, so let me get this straight, the ships you buy from what's now the Zen store are account wide unlocks? I've only read on the discription for the oddy pack and it's Klink equivalent a line about being account unlocks, none of the other ships have anything in their description about being unlocked for a whole account.
  • sierrafortunesierrafortune Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    chakitty wrote: »
    Ok, so let me get this straight, the ships you buy from what's now the Zen store are account wide unlocks? I've only read on the discription for the oddy pack and it's Klink equivalent a line about being account unlocks, none of the other ships have anything in their description about being unlocked for a whole account.

    It's still called the C-store I believe, and yes ships bought from the C-Store are account wide unlocks, all of them. Lock Box Ships, and Fleet Ships are are not account wide.
  • chakittychakitty Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sierrafortune wrote: »
    It's still called the C-store I believe, and yes ships bought from the C-Store are account wide unlocks, all of them. Lock Box Ships, and Fleet Ships are are not account wide.

    It's now the Zen store since they've shifted from C-points to using PWE's Zen currency. And thank you very much for confirming this, makes things a little more berable. Not much, but a little.
  • sierrafortunesierrafortune Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    chakitty wrote: »
    It's now the Zen store since they've shifted from C-points to using PWE's Zen currency. And thank you very much for confirming this, makes things a little more berable. Not much, but a little.
    It's still the C-Store



    In regards to Fleet Modules, I personally don't see it as that big of an issue. I can get free zen by doing those crappy little surveys If i ever want one, or buy one on the exchange. And there are 'Free' variants of most ships that don't require a C-Store Purchase. I am still mad however that there's pretty much no way to get a ship that competes with the Fleet Ships in terms of ability for the ones that require modules, and in terms of variety at end-game in general.
  • admiralbrenanadmiralbrenan Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    yes doing the quizzes are such a GOOD idea (sarcasm). i was just f-ing around one day and clicked on it to do one, logged on the next day and had to do a system restore to get rid of some stuff that slipped through my firewall and antivirus from peanut labs. so yes get zen points at what cost though, a virus slipping through and killing your computer thanks but im good. the modules are way to expensive i can understand the modules being about 250 or 300 but 500 is ridiculous. Especially for those of us who dont have any source of income or arent on long enough to grind 8000 dilithium per day per character. also the fact that the bugs and galors and dkoras already have there upgrade is ridiculous everybody i knew could barely tank two, now it is impossible to even tank one let alone be able to kill it. A few of my friends went into a pvp, hard core pvpers mind you, fighting two bug ships, everybody on the other team except the bugs left. my friends got rolled 15 to 4. Im sorry but to almost no name players versus a premade and winning by a margin of that much is absurd. bugs should not be able to tank the way they do. if anybody remembers bug ships were cannon fodder and died very easy in the series something must be done about this ship. (sorry ranting) anyways once the price for the fleet modules come down then i will be happy. also the fact that only t5 ships get a discount isnt fair i have the rhode island while i dont think it should be discounted down to 1 like the t5 it should at least be 2 or 3 instead of the full 4. just my few cents on a few issues.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    thratch1 wrote: »
    I mentioned in another thread, but endgame content is currently tuned to be T5 anyway. It's not like ********, where you need more powerful gear to move forward; all these Fleet ships will do is make the current PVE game easier, and give you an edge in PVP.

    Considering how tough they've made it to get up to the Fleet ships anyway, the C-Store ships you already have will do you just fine.

    EDIT:
    Wow. Just wow. They censored War Craft. WoW.

    ROFLMAO...

    I agree with the op...they are expensive...at least half of the fleet ships I want for my various characters I don't want specifically because they are more powerful...I want them because they have much more unique and interesting Boff layouts.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • raptor63549raptor63549 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    lianthelia wrote: »
    ROFLMAO...

    I agree with the op...they are expensive...at least half of the fleet ships I want for my various characters I don't want specifically because they are more powerful...I want them because they have much more unique and interesting Boff layouts.

    Indeed. Besides liking the Nova (which isn't enough of a reason for me to buy it for $20), the main reason I wanted one was because of that LtC tac. It's something I could make great use of and something the science ship lineup has needed for a while. it's also the reason I am hugely disappointed with the science vessel retrofit since that ship has same layout as the recon science vessel.
    [sigpic][/sigpic]
  • soultaker1x1soultaker1x1 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Wow just wow .....man y'all have it easy here but many ppl still crying .....I know a MMO that their end ship carrier cost $150.00 and their line ship cost $75.00 that's not including the cost it takes to level up ur weapons Hull engines computers oh and u have to grind to pay for ammo .......just look at it this way STO way cheaper than BGO.... be glad STO is not like BGO
  • raptor63549raptor63549 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Why should we care what happens in another MMO? This isn't that other MMO.
    Why don't we compare this to EvE online in that case where I just got a capital ship for the sum of $0.
    [sigpic][/sigpic]
  • riouhotaruriouhotaru Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    I checked the Shipyard and noticed not ALL the Fleet Ships take Modules, some take JUST Fleet Credits (Rather high numbers of them too, 20k and up).

    Of course they're not as good as the ones that take modules though.
  • rickpaaarickpaaa Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    The ones that take only fleet credits are not the "Fleet" variant, and they only have nine console slots.

    I look at fleet ships as desirable lock box ships that "can" be obtained by anyone, regardless of luck. You pay $20.00 (US), grind fleet merits, and fleet star base ship yard levels. You pay $5 less than an account wide ship unlock, AND grind... all for a single character ship!
    giphy.gif
    Member since December 2009


  • ferdzso0ferdzso0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    riouhotaru wrote: »
    I checked the Shipyard and noticed not ALL the Fleet Ships take Modules, some take JUST Fleet Credits (Rather high numbers of them too, 20k and up).

    Of course they're not as good as the ones that take modules though.

    the problem is, those ships suck big time. even the fleet versions of those ships are bad (at best).

    these are too expensive, and really hard to get. if we have a starbase with military tier 5 (which we will work for a year or more), at least dont make us pay for the damned ships. or make them more accessible, if they are so expensive. this way we can only lose
    10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
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