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Increased HP of B'Rel Retrofit
gehmor
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
So this line item in today's release notes caught my eye. I love all the Birds of Prey, and I'm practically married to my Hagh'Ta. The main thing that kept me from shelling out for the B'Rel Retrofit has been the loss of hull HP compared to the Hegh'Ta. This line item, however, is causing me to cast my Klingon eyes around at something new.
I didn't get a chance to play around with Season 6 on Tribble. Does anyone know more details about the buffed B'Rel Retrofit?
I didn't get a chance to play around with Season 6 on Tribble. Does anyone know more details about the buffed B'Rel Retrofit?
Hi! I used to be JBHemlock. There's already one of those in PWE. I play the Klingon Kerr, but there's already a Kerr in PWE, too. So I'm Gehmor, my Cardassian alt. Just picture me with a plate of gagh.
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That's a nice noticeable increase. . .
Ditto. I don't need the hull. 4k hull doesn't protect me very much when I'm unshielded all of the time.
They should fix decloaking when hailed before adding hull, if that hasn't been fixed yet. Keeping the cloak up is far better survivability.
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
I don't get it. I've been quite critical of the the newest BoP because the hull is so meagre. When you are making a break to go to cloak and unsheilded your hull is the only thing protecting you. It's not absolute protection or a good idea to try and engage like a cruiser but it does grant you some "wiggle room", a slightly wider margin of error.
I don't see the reason to complain when I'm getting a gift. It just makes them think they are right.
When you get actually decloaked is when you are at risk of being blown up. But when decloaked, your shields get brought up. If those then get taken down and I'm relying on my 4k extra hull to protect me, I'm dead anyways.
People, especially fleeters can complain about OP and all that TRIBBLE, but really with them having all the advantages is it too much to ask us KDF Captain's get just one? PvP is pretty much dead now, will be for sure in 7 months when those Fleeter fleet ships come out especially that 5 tac console Defiant.
hmmm? last I knew whent he B'rel decloaks to fire torpedo's.... (which is totally against what the ship and movie SHOW the ships is capable of :mad:) Your shields do not come up and you recloak after being exposed for those 3 seconds.
Probably one of the craziest nerfs I ever seen dears. A better one would of to of limited how many torpedo's the vessel could mount, OR only certain type of torpedo made specifically for it, so you can control how many it can equip.
but that three second exposed thing? along with the already broken cloak? clearly that needs to be re-examined.
The real problem would be continuously firing torpedoes and offensive abilities so that you never really re-cloak. Popping off one torpedo at a time is basically worthless unless you catch somebody with their shields down, so you pretty much need to keep spamming attacks. In PvP that would be plenty of time for someone to target you with an ability that would take down your cloak completely.
So, what's the best tactic to use when you've been forcibly de-cloaked?
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Or hit them with Jam Sensors. While I understand Jam Sensors is frowned upon in a team PVP game, this ship is not designed to be a defensive support ship. Any abilities you use to help your team will probably decloak you.
Sensor scan- reveal, deos not break cloak- yer a sitting, shieldless duck.
Tractor beam- decloak and immobilise.
particle burst- AOE reveal and shield hit. Does not need to even see you first. if you are close, you are hit.
Shockwave- same thing.
TBR Does not fire or damage, but draws a nice glowy line right to you. so they can fly near and hit another power. And if you do become active, hits do not break cloak- no shields.
Passive sensors- even with the b'rel at full aux, and in the honor guard set, even a slightly raised sci's sensing (Such as the sensor sweep buff to self) will spot you at 5 klicks. (reveal, no shields)
homing torp console- made to hunt you down and nuke your engines and disable your cloak. (the hit is free to hull, then shields come up)
Shockwave torpedo- it'll get your friends too. (Free hit to hull then shields come after stun)
grav well- AOE that automatically decloaks you if you stray within its range. Does not need to target you directly. Especially problematic as in instances with many objects (mines etc) the graphic for this hazard does not become visible.
Mines- Auto target and hit to hull even while invisible. (Tric's anyone?) And are not seen until you are already in their range thanks to the changed made to reduce lag.
Attack pattern beta- nerfs cloak. (Reveal, no shields)
Attack pattern gamma- nerfs cloak (reveal, no shields)
Attack pattern Alpha- nerfs cloak (reveal, no shields)
Fire at will- instant targting and hit no matter what when you use any power that reveals you. Spreading automatic damage and attack pattern born debuffs.
Danube runabouts and other carrier craft- can follow you even while cloaked, revealing your position, and automatically target, shoot, and use abilities such as tractor beam.
Warp plasma- hazard; reveal, slow, limit maneuverability, damage. But this one is avoidable as an aware pilot.
grappling hook- A cheap and easy decloak and slow, that has a difficult to see graphic at the best of times even if it was being showed properly. Instant decloak.
Viral matrix- when it hits aux, your cloak disables. Sometimes this is instant.
This is not even mentioning the auto target and auto fire functions available within the game that allow ships to ambush your ambush without the pilot even being at the desk, targeting you for them, eliminating that small window of advantage that the b'rel has, as determined by the reaction time of your opponent. In effect neutralising the concept and reward of player skill.
This is NOT to say that I am whining about a lack of balance for the ship. Just so everyone is aware. In fact if it wasn't for the glitches that occur in the running of the ship, I would call it very fair considering that many of the above situations have direct counters, and thanks to the ship being entirely universal slots a well prepared pilot can survive and prosper, not to mention feel a great sense of satisfaction at having the skill to survive in such an environment.
tac team- clears and keeps off all attack pattern debuffs.
Sci team- clears sub nuc and sensor sweep. does not counter the sensor buff still present on the power's originating ship- potentially still visible.
Engineering team- counters sub nuke if you are fast enough to catch it. mitigates damage.
Polarise hull- adds durability and breaks holds and repels, protects from the damage of repulsors. but does not counter the decloak or unlock the ability to cloak while the tractor beam etc is still active.
haz emitters- mitigates damage over time
shockwave- breaks tractor beams, stuns, interrupts
scramble sensors- confounds auto targeting, and auto targeting powers (fire at will, cannon spread, torpedo spread) Reveals for three seconds on use, short duration.
Aux to structural- strong pulse of damage mitigation and adds damage resists (I have noted a bug that sometimes occurs where when the power is at end of cycle, your ship randomly reveals itself for three seconds. But as yet i can not replicate why purposefully)
Attack pattern omega- maneuverability and counters (to an extent) tractor beams and other holds.
Spatial barrier- excellent barrier to block enemy ships and alpha strikes- buys time to counter reveals and escape or recover.
Gravimetric pulse- *SURPRISE!* You're ten kilometers away! breaks tractor locks, interrupts, knocks people out of firing arc or out of range. Plus some kinetic damage.
Ship is in effect immune energy weapon debuffs, and weapon energy drain as so long as there is a single point of weapon fire, torpedoes will fire for full effect.
Ship is in effect immune to loss of shields or shield power as they are not used. (unless something bad happened)
Ship is capable of running in max aux with engines secondary for consistant support and powerful stealthed delivery of crowd control and disabling sci powers
Set combinations and officer perks allow for a very high defense rating, meaning that if it is not an auto-targt ability, it has a good chance of missing. (Evasive perk, two pieces of aegis, honor guard shield proc, ship inherant defense based on movement)
As i said. well balanced for those who are willing to put in time and effort. However. there are still glitches that need fixing. As was mentioned with grav wells, graphics sometimes are not shown due to the engine having a limit on the number of possible active objects being visible. While good for lag, it means you skip out of cloak with no warning or chance to avoid the hazard, and without knowing what kicked you out of cloak it is difficult to respond appropriately.
As was mentioned there is also the issue of dialogues still forcing a decloak. which is rather silly. "hang on captain! We need to decloak so i can talk to you!"
Also, Picking up loot disables cloak. ... though this one I don't mind as it can be passed off as removing cloak to open the cargo doors, retrieve the item, etc. *shrug*
The auto targeting proves to be an unfair advantage however. it provides instant and accurate reactions, which completely countermands the idea -behind- the B'rel retro in the first place. IE the element of surprise. Instead a cruiser can sit with all beams on fire at will, or an escort can sit with his beam overloads and torp spreads ready, and the very instant you begin to decloak, you are being targeted, debuffed, damaged, and sometimes instantly killed outright. And this is magnified by the pets which use no user input and require no preparation. they automatically get a free lock and (in the case of danubes) tractor with no possibility to avoid it. Meaning the instant you shoot, you are held, decloaked, and easy to be targeted. To this i believe I have a solution though- on decloak, all agressive units with an automated targeting attack, power, or behavior, gets a random .5 to 1.5 second delay to simulate reaction time. it is still far faster than the manual reaction time of the average person to see, target, select response, and implement. but it gives the b'rel a chance to at least get its shots off first and maybe escape with a sliver of hull as there is a narrower window of vulnerability. This also maintains the balance involved with the three second reveal, as a person can react manually, target, and use one or several of the many available methods to counter the cloak. Bringing a measure of skill back into the equasion.
Fix these three issues (The first two being top priority, the third being undoubtedly a personal opinion thing) and i can see that alone making the B'rel if not a devastating ship, at least worthy of a place on the battlefield- in the hands of a skilled enough pilot.
There is nothing like witnessing five b'rels all decloaking at the same time, unleashing a slew of tyken's rifts, gravity wells, sensor scrambles, and torpedo spreads. it brings a tear to the eye....
spread 3- four clusters of two torpedoes to four targets = 32 torps.
spread 2- three clusters of two torpedoes to three targets = 18 torps
both fired together across five ships = 250 torpedoes.
time it right and everyone fires another spread 3. = 410 torpedoes
Make them quantums and watch the stary sky unfold. *evil grin*
and -that- my friends, is what makes me love the B'rel. More than anything else.
We are many. We are legion. We are the proud, the bad, the infinitely expendable.
We! Are RED SHIRTS!
...Tremble in thy footwear.
Seriously, you were ever hit by emission seeking torpedo ? :rolleyes: What did you do ? cut all engine power and raised a sign which reads "HIT ME HIT ME HIT ME OH NASTY TORPEDO, JUST HIT ME ALREADY".
First off, I listed it because of what it does. it belongs there as a potential hazard. My own experiences are a moot and useless point as the function is the same regardless.
Second, in a battlefield anything is possible. It happens- irregardless of the skill of the pilot- you have to see it coming in the first place.
third- how does that statement add anything at all to the conversation? At best it is picking at a single detail that changes nothing of the overall statement.
We are many. We are legion. We are the proud, the bad, the infinitely expendable.
We! Are RED SHIRTS!
...Tremble in thy footwear.
As mentioned in this thread the 3 second decloaking benefits the enemy more than the benefits of the ship itself. That being to even try to bring down an enemy which besides kalferi system and some borg stfs they are very few unshielded targets in the game. That being stated kinetic damage which torpedoes do is nullified by shielding in which the way shield damage and drain resists go with specs either npc or player character now more than every make those skills virtually useless at their maximum output via consoles, boff skills, and spec barely even scratch shields so that hinders just about any purpose of using what is specified and advertised in sales of this ship.
Now for the transphasic torpedoes they were buffed from 20% to 40% shield penetration. The problem there is its the lowest damage torpedo in the game. From that you would have to fire so many torpedoes and basically stay decloaked with no shields that pretty much any target you are after can see you as well as lay down some fire on your hull with no shields. So all the things talking about its so hard to decloak one or that there are so many ways to decloak it on either side of the fence when it comes to this are null and void because the way the thing keeps you decloaked in this manner makes it where your enemy either player or npc doesn't need any special skills as long as you try to kill them they are given a gift wrapped target with no shields. Of a few years myself of trying to get them to balance this out all we get is slight buffs and then a nerf someplace else that puts the ship back in dust collecting mode.
So the increased health isn't warranted but actual internal and external ideas on how to make this work where you can compete with cannon and beam layouts without huge disadvantages is needed. We pretty much don't have a decent torpedo for shoot and turn as a former dev stated like it should have been or should be.
There are a few options I have stated over and over that could be beginnings of making it balanced. The first is making it as it was in the movie giving off a red flash once a torpedo is fired which that would give anyone carrying that seeking torpedo (great Idea I gave on that to the devs that they made for the feds but yet did not give us the b'rel users of the KDF any advantages to warrant a fed minded person to keep it on their ship to use so really cryptic is only hurting themselves by decreasing the value in their own products the brel and the console) a reason to use such a console. The other is making a console or game mechanic where any torpedo reguardless if its a transphasic or not have automatic % of shield penetration. That % would help especially due to if it would stack with a transphasic because a torpedo doing like 3k-4k damage and then 40% of that is still less than 500 damage vs 30k to 60k hulls that is pretty much 60-120 torpedo to take down a ship and thats before natural or self activated healing on the part of the target takes place meanwhile the pilot of the b'rel is sitting there while trying to kill the target open to shieldess attacks which to me is out of balance if there are all those powers to decloak a target when the game mechanic itself is doing it for the person being attacked so its OP for the attacker and a huge disadvantage to the owner and seriously out of balance.
Its just little things like this that hinder most players from going KDF because with the subject to change stuff their purchase is only good for one week and I would think a company like Cryptic would finally get the message and start doing something to make things they advertise have a good reputation.
But, as was described, shields have an inherant bonus against torps- the bleed through is the same as beam and cannon weapons, but the shield HP that normally absorbs the remaining 90% -also- has a resistance making that hp amount much more efficient. So the shields do not get worn down to expose that hull.
I have found though, that once i shifted my expectations from the B'rel being an assault craft to being support based, it did mitigate many of the percieved balance issues. Mainly, building and setting up for the second attack on a target rather than the initial barrage- you let the cannon boats wear them down then hit while the shields are already low or down. And switching to spread instead of high yield- though the damage is reduced- means guarenteed hits not only to that weakened target, but also the added distraction of damage to -his- support craft, and the clearing of spam from the field- forcing healers to spread their attention and removing potential counter dps from pets and mines all in addition to heightening the chances of your barrage going direct to hull where that torp damage can much more easily lead to a kill.
Also, having a support focus allows a pilot to take advantage of the other cloak benefits- being able to fire off debuffs, crowd control, and heals also all while remaining stealthed. It may be a small ship but being able to run full aux and still have consistant damage potential frees the ship to fulfill a solid support and harassment role while you charge up that next burst. TSS, HAZ, tykens and grav well, burst and shockwave, scramble sensors, viral matrix, sci and engineering teams to clear allies of debuffs... all can be done while cloaked with only that same three second reveal. If you are willing to sacrifice some dps, this style of play can also be effectively combined with chroniton torpedoes to mass slow the enemy team- helping to reduce their attack craft's ability to bring their firing arc to bear.
As i said the B'rel really is a powerful support ship and those torps still remain effective in the second half of a classic 1-2 punch if you do want to play it aggressively. The trick is finding a teammate or two to make it happen. It takes timing and coordination. Or even pairing off with a second B'rel with a similar build. While one ship will rarely overwhelm the shields of your opponent, even adding one more ship and hitting together, those shields will go down and at least a few hits will go direct to hull, where that damage loss suddenly reaches compensation.
Only once have I had the opportunity to run in PVP matches with two other torpedo-specialist b'rels, and when the three of us coordinated, two would break the shields, the third being enough to destroy lighter craft and severely cripple even the enemy cruisers. That really drove home how the B'rel may be considered gimp and weak on its own as far as attack potential, but they operate as a force multiplier with eachother- the whole literally becoming greater then the sum of its parts.
We are many. We are legion. We are the proud, the bad, the infinitely expendable.
We! Are RED SHIRTS!
...Tremble in thy footwear.
Just watch out for those Bio-neurals. that damn turret does ridiculous damage!
We are many. We are legion. We are the proud, the bad, the infinitely expendable.
We! Are RED SHIRTS!
...Tremble in thy footwear.