"The Contribute button for projects is now disabled if a player doesn?t have contribution permissions." this is from the patch notes on tribble.
So now your Fleet Leaders can decide who can help build the Starbase. Or Who is left out.
hey PWE Why would you think this is a good idea? It needs to be gotten rid of immediately.
Just to add another idea with this, you have a system developed already with the fleet bank that allows fleet leaders to setup min and max limits of deposits and withdrawls per bank tab. In our fleet the bank tabs are named similar to fleet ranks so you gain access to more items in the bank as you earn rank in the fleet.
You could apply this system to the fleet stabase UI. setting min and max per person (or per fleet rank) allowed per 24 hour period. so everyone has a better chance to make a contribution and earn fleet marks. This way, someone cannot say they didnt have a chance to contribute, earn marks etc.
NOT a hard limit per person set by Cryptic! that is not good.
But, limits that are adjustable (like the bank system) which are a setting option the fleet elects to use (min-max). So in the case of smaller fleets with say, 5 people. They can still add unlimited resources per person. (they would opt not to use a Min-max setting since they have only 5 people). The same way we can elect not to use the min-max setting on fleet bank tabs)
Just another way to have a check in place, but not restrict the people/fleet that dont need it or want to use it. I like the "resource pool" method better, but with this you could perhaps use some of the system already developed for fleet bank tabs.
^This. Very much this.
Alternatively, there needs to be a setup whereby you can ALWAYS donate SOMETHING. I've been trying to test on tribble and haven't yet been able to donate a single thing. I can see this as being a major source of disillusionment if it isn't fixed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]PWE Web Team is bound for Gre'Thor.....:mad:
Well it seems tptb dont want anyone talking about this except here. oh well.
When i got to Tribble after the patch the fleet I was in had all the permissions turned off. except for the Fleet Leader. fortunately One was on holodeck and he came over to tribble to turn them back on.
This opens up another problem. If your Fleet Leader is MIA from the game. It would seem that the entire Fleet is SOL when it comes to the SB system.
Good Job PWE! Way to lock out the Fleets whose Leaders have stopped playing!
Fleet leaders have a tool, it's called "Leadership", the backup being "Kick".
Members have a tool, it's called "Quit", the backup being "Join" (or create).
The drama is here now, let the great fleets deal with their own problems. Let players think for themselves, and give no one a game enforced way to be "sheep".
Every single point brought up in this thread so far is almost bordering on entitlement. Fleets (like guilds in other games) are player driven. Learn to drive or get off the road. If you run into any of these problems, you are in the wrong fleet or not cut out to be a leader.
"The Contribute button for projects is now disabled if a player doesn?t have contribution permissions." this is from the patch notes on tribble.
So now your Fleet Leaders can decide who can help build the Starbase. Or Who is left out.
hey PWE Why would you think this is a good idea?
I see this as a VERY rudimentary tool to control that one player (or a group) do not "over donate" (aka constantly donate) , and gives a chance for a more equal donership by all players .
At least in theory .
In practice , it seems to me that to make use of this , the Fleet Leaders would have to be on line 24/7 .
Fleet bases should just progress the same way as certain events did in EverQuest 2: It doesn't matter how much anyone (or everyone) contributes. The project will be completed when it's completed. By that, I mean that there is a required time limit that has to be waited out by everyone just to make advancements to the base, regardless of how much is contributed. Timesinks.
If enough contributions are not made by the time limit, then the base will only advance when the required amount is finally reached.
As for putting limitations on who and how much can be contributed, in the spirit of the Fourth of July, players should have the freedom to do what they want, regardless of inner politics. It's not fair that 11 people want to get a special ship, and they're only given out to the first 10 to earn them.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think this is where fair and well coordinated fleetleaders will do well, and the vise versa greedie, dishonest fleetleaders will be looking for a new day job.
I will pass the feedback along, but this is where Fleet Politics will come into play Fleet Leaders and Officers will probably want to establish some ground rules about contributions (and ship provisioning once that is unlocked).
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
To be blunt, I think 'fleet politics' should have 0 effect on a characters personal advancement. This has nothing to do with the persons fleets rules/systems. If there was NO PERSONAL GAIN to helping your /fleet/ then that would be fine. Since there is personal gain from helping the cycle, then it needs to be corrected internally - not from the fleets themselves.
Maybe it can be set up so fleet marks are not given out until the current upgrade has been completed. Once the upgrade is completed the fleet marks will be divided equally between those who have contributed (no matter how much or little you contributed, it is still a team effort).
:P
I dont know... my idea might suck haha.
Fleet marks are earned individually through PvE content and other means, they are used as a consumeable for starbase assignments, not rewarded by them.
I think this is where fair and well coordinated fleetleaders will do well, and the vise versa greedie, dishonest fleetleaders will be looking for a new day job.
Why should ANYONE contribute ANY of their hard-earned grind, to help discover which Fleet Leader is of which persuasion ?
What happens, exactly, if a person "sidesteps" Season 6 Starbases entirely, and leaves this process of discovery to those who enjoy drama, and this "politics come into play" aspect ?
Are the Tholians going to chew us to bits, if we don't have that extra console slot ?
Am I expected to believe that the ONLY place these "extra console" type ships will appear, ever, is in Fleet Yards ?
I think people need to settle down for a bit and take the long view. Starbases are going to chew up VAST amounts of resources. Far more than even a sizable clique will be able to monopolize before access to fleet ships is available. Even for those who've played every day since early access from Beta are going to have their pockets emptied before these things reach full flower.
There will be people who do get a signficant early advantage, no doubts, but over the duration of a starbase's lifespan, that should average out, even for a sizable fleet.
And if it turns out, there's a fleet that's blackballing you from adequate participation, then you can learn pretty quickly that you need to move on before you've invested the larger part of your own personal resources.
I will concede that new information comes, as the Tribble testing continues.
However, at this point, as I understand it, I can contribute some/all of my gathered resources into Fleet Base setup, with no guarantees of ever being able to access ANY resources, other than the goodwill of Fleet leadership. I can be blocked from purchasing new ships, via the permissions .. ( let's suppose that Leadership decides it's in the best interests of the Fleet , to allow PvP players first access ). Then, if I leave and go to another Fleet, where, ummm, I can be blocked from purchasing supplies/ships, until I have been advanced in rank, out of the Leader determined blocked ranks.
And all these permissions are at the whim and goodwill of a small, select group of players ?
I will concede that new information comes, as the Tribble testing continues.
However, at this point, as I understand it, I can contribute some/all of my gathered resources into Fleet Base setup, with no guarantees of ever being able to access ANY resources, other than the goodwill of Fleet leadership. I can be blocked from purchasing new ships, via the permissions .. ( let's suppose that Leadership decides it's in the best interests of the Fleet , to allow PvP players first access ). Then, if I leave and go to another Fleet, where, ummm, I can be blocked from purchasing supplies/ships, until I have been advanced in rank, out of the Leader determined blocked ranks.
And all these permissions are at the whim and goodwill of a small, select group of players ?
Exactly why I'm working on getting a casual fleet of 10 or so tops together. PM me if you interested.
A player can only contribute to two projects per day (but unlimited contributions to those projects).
With a total of five ongoing fleet projects possible, no single player can dominate all projects and fleets will need to coordinate more on how to accomplish a particular project, instead of a resource free-for-all.
Quick, dirty, simple.
I think I like it... but it does perhaps put fleets of 1 or 2 players at a disadvantage... and alts that occupy the same fleet becomes a difficulty that Cryptic would have to make adjustments for.
"The Contribute button for projects is now disabled if a player doesn?t have contribution permissions." this is from the patch notes on tribble.
So now your Fleet Leaders can decide who can help build the Starbase. Or Who is left out.
hey PWE Why would you think this is a good idea? It needs to be gotten rid of immediately.
I can think of some good reasons for it.
#1 - Maybe you don't want invitees coming in from other fleets with a lot of banked fleet credits buying up everything in your fleet store, when they haven't contributed to building up your fleet's facilities.
#2 - Maybe you ask someone to give other members a chance to contribute and they don't listen. You could demote them temporarily to get the message across.
#3 - Could even be used to create a floating rank so everybody gets a turn.
That said, I would certainly be in favor of more granular permissions than to turn contributions on or off.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I will pass the feedback along, but this is where Fleet Politics will come into play Fleet Leaders and Officers will probably want to establish some ground rules about contributions (and ship provisioning once that is unlocked).
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
As this is the first time I've ever said anything to you, I want to start by saying I think you do a great job. You are the best community manager STO has ever had and I appreciate your work.
The answer you give above is an excuse for a poorly designed starbase system with a poorly design Starbase economy. On Tribble players are earning 30-40x more currency (fleet credits) than they are capable of spending. You have even designed a special mission solely for earning fleet credits, further disrupting the balance to the poorly designed economy of Starbases. The economy is so poorly designed, there is no association whatsoever between currency and product.
That is a design flaw by any objective analysis. To suggest the solution of Crypics design flaw is fleet politics is a very bad answer.
As designed, any fleet that uses the special mission is a fleet of fools who loves flushing resources down a toilet. Cryptic has designed a terrible Starbase economy, and to capitalize on the collective ignorance of it's community, it has given the Starbases a mission, called it "special," and rewarded players with the single most abundant and worthless currency ever to be added to STO - a game notorious for having multiple useless currencies!
Sir, I am sorry but if your management is asking you to blame the community because Cryptic has designed a terrible Starbase economy, you need to either ask for a raise, or suggest that perhaps the community is right, and the current system on Tribble is simply absent legitimate evidence of economic sanity.
The simplest solution would be to normalize resources (so that all resource types generate a roughly equal amount of "Fleet Credits"), and then unbound them from individual projects, so that there'd be a kind of limitless "bank" which members can dispense resources into to grab credits. The fleet leader can then start projects and draw the resources from the fleet's own bank.
Not only would it solve the economy sink, it'd incentivize fleet members to contribute more, it'd prevent anyone from being left out and it would still preserve the means of directing fleet projects to suit the fleet's needs.
I think I like it... but it does perhaps put fleets of 1 or 2 players at a disadvantage... and alts that occupy the same fleet becomes a difficulty that Cryptic would have to make adjustments for.
Catering to 1 to 2 person fleets is the antithesis behind the entire fleet system design that encourages group play. Also, a 1-2 person fleet could simply have their alts contribute too.
This sounds like a fleet management issue, not a Cryptic developer issue. Sure, some controls that fleet leaders could set would be nice, but it'd still be a fleet management issue then. If "certain cliques" in your fleet are hogging all the resources, ask your fleet leader to do something about it. If nothing is done, then you're in a bad fleet. Leave and join another or make your own. My fleet won't have this problem because we all get along and work out problems like this amongst ourselves.
Comments
"The Contribute button for projects is now disabled if a player doesn?t have contribution permissions." this is from the patch notes on tribble.
So now your Fleet Leaders can decide who can help build the Starbase. Or Who is left out.
hey PWE Why would you think this is a good idea? It needs to be gotten rid of immediately.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
^This. Very much this.
Alternatively, there needs to be a setup whereby you can ALWAYS donate SOMETHING. I've been trying to test on tribble and haven't yet been able to donate a single thing. I can see this as being a major source of disillusionment if it isn't fixed.
When i got to Tribble after the patch the fleet I was in had all the permissions turned off. except for the Fleet Leader. fortunately One was on holodeck and he came over to tribble to turn them back on.
This opens up another problem. If your Fleet Leader is MIA from the game. It would seem that the entire Fleet is SOL when it comes to the SB system.
Good Job PWE! Way to lock out the Fleets whose Leaders have stopped playing!
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
Members have a tool, it's called "Quit", the backup being "Join" (or create).
The drama is here now, let the great fleets deal with their own problems. Let players think for themselves, and give no one a game enforced way to be "sheep".
Every single point brought up in this thread so far is almost bordering on entitlement. Fleets (like guilds in other games) are player driven. Learn to drive or get off the road. If you run into any of these problems, you are in the wrong fleet or not cut out to be a leader.
It's that simple.
I see this as a VERY rudimentary tool to control that one player (or a group) do not "over donate" (aka constantly donate) , and gives a chance for a more equal donership by all players .
At least in theory .
In practice , it seems to me that to make use of this , the Fleet Leaders would have to be on line 24/7 .
If enough contributions are not made by the time limit, then the base will only advance when the required amount is finally reached.
As for putting limitations on who and how much can be contributed, in the spirit of the Fourth of July, players should have the freedom to do what they want, regardless of inner politics. It's not fair that 11 people want to get a special ship, and they're only given out to the first 10 to earn them.
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To be blunt, I think 'fleet politics' should have 0 effect on a characters personal advancement. This has nothing to do with the persons fleets rules/systems. If there was NO PERSONAL GAIN to helping your /fleet/ then that would be fine. Since there is personal gain from helping the cycle, then it needs to be corrected internally - not from the fleets themselves.
Fleet marks are earned individually through PvE content and other means, they are used as a consumeable for starbase assignments, not rewarded by them.
Why should ANYONE contribute ANY of their hard-earned grind, to help discover which Fleet Leader is of which persuasion ?
What happens, exactly, if a person "sidesteps" Season 6 Starbases entirely, and leaves this process of discovery to those who enjoy drama, and this "politics come into play" aspect ?
Are the Tholians going to chew us to bits, if we don't have that extra console slot ?
Am I expected to believe that the ONLY place these "extra console" type ships will appear, ever, is in Fleet Yards ?
There will be people who do get a signficant early advantage, no doubts, but over the duration of a starbase's lifespan, that should average out, even for a sizable fleet.
And if it turns out, there's a fleet that's blackballing you from adequate participation, then you can learn pretty quickly that you need to move on before you've invested the larger part of your own personal resources.
However, at this point, as I understand it, I can contribute some/all of my gathered resources into Fleet Base setup, with no guarantees of ever being able to access ANY resources, other than the goodwill of Fleet leadership. I can be blocked from purchasing new ships, via the permissions .. ( let's suppose that Leadership decides it's in the best interests of the Fleet , to allow PvP players first access ). Then, if I leave and go to another Fleet, where, ummm, I can be blocked from purchasing supplies/ships, until I have been advanced in rank, out of the Leader determined blocked ranks.
And all these permissions are at the whim and goodwill of a small, select group of players ?
Not happening..
Exactly why I'm working on getting a casual fleet of 10 or so tops together. PM me if you interested.
I think I like it... but it does perhaps put fleets of 1 or 2 players at a disadvantage... and alts that occupy the same fleet becomes a difficulty that Cryptic would have to make adjustments for.
I can think of some good reasons for it.
#1 - Maybe you don't want invitees coming in from other fleets with a lot of banked fleet credits buying up everything in your fleet store, when they haven't contributed to building up your fleet's facilities.
#2 - Maybe you ask someone to give other members a chance to contribute and they don't listen. You could demote them temporarily to get the message across.
#3 - Could even be used to create a floating rank so everybody gets a turn.
That said, I would certainly be in favor of more granular permissions than to turn contributions on or off.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
As this is the first time I've ever said anything to you, I want to start by saying I think you do a great job. You are the best community manager STO has ever had and I appreciate your work.
The answer you give above is an excuse for a poorly designed starbase system with a poorly design Starbase economy. On Tribble players are earning 30-40x more currency (fleet credits) than they are capable of spending. You have even designed a special mission solely for earning fleet credits, further disrupting the balance to the poorly designed economy of Starbases. The economy is so poorly designed, there is no association whatsoever between currency and product.
That is a design flaw by any objective analysis. To suggest the solution of Crypics design flaw is fleet politics is a very bad answer.
As designed, any fleet that uses the special mission is a fleet of fools who loves flushing resources down a toilet. Cryptic has designed a terrible Starbase economy, and to capitalize on the collective ignorance of it's community, it has given the Starbases a mission, called it "special," and rewarded players with the single most abundant and worthless currency ever to be added to STO - a game notorious for having multiple useless currencies!
Sir, I am sorry but if your management is asking you to blame the community because Cryptic has designed a terrible Starbase economy, you need to either ask for a raise, or suggest that perhaps the community is right, and the current system on Tribble is simply absent legitimate evidence of economic sanity.
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
Or should it be called the Dosadi Experiment ?
These folks do:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=250
The.Grand.Nagus
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NPW Forums
Not only would it solve the economy sink, it'd incentivize fleet members to contribute more, it'd prevent anyone from being left out and it would still preserve the means of directing fleet projects to suit the fleet's needs.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Catering to 1 to 2 person fleets is the antithesis behind the entire fleet system design that encourages group play. Also, a 1-2 person fleet could simply have their alts contribute too.
If so, how doable is a StarBase of less than 10 players/characters ?
What are the developments in large Fleets ? How are the contribution / asset ( ship & consumable ) sharing issues being resolved ?
Who has seen the process on Tribble ? ( I confess I haven't. RL has been a bit busy )