Like most Trekkers and Trekkies, I have a level of imagination that is far greater than what a computer game can deliever. The limits of technology burden STO, exploration is a good example of this. In that regard, as well as other mechanics, STO is horrible failure. So why are so many Trekkers and Trekkies still here? They are here because the feeling of Trek overshadows the limitations. It's literally second nature for us to leap beyond the things that try to hold our imaginations in check.
Community is also something Trekkers and Trekkies cherish. STO in that regard is like a 24/7 convention without the many hours invested in travel. I can't think of a more closely knit group of people. Faithful to Trek. That zeal must be respected by those who seek finacial gain by entering OUR universe. We are a very warm and friendly lot, but we are not pushovers. Honor means something in Trek for all of us. Treat us as we would treat you, lest beware.
I have no problem with contributing to the finacial success of STO, all I ask of PWE and Cryptic is to do so with the spirit of Star Trek in mind.
I will probably giggle myself to death if they release the Scalable Connie for the 1.000 day Vet reward.
I needed medication after the Fed Carrier release!
Seriously, SANDBOX. Don't worry about what others are flying.
Yes yes, sandbox, so T6 shuttles with the firepower of any T6 ship for all!
In fact, why stop with Trek ships if it is sandbox... I want to fly the Battleship Yamato!
If you are saying 'sandbox' and don't care what else is out there, why do you care about flying a connie in the first place? You lose all context......
It's the Enterprise series T5 Vulcan ship that best illustrates my point.
They SOLD me stuff to use on my Connie and since I would be flying it and looking at it and walking through it that will be all the context I would need.
It's the Enterprise series T5 Vulcan ship that best illustrates my point.
They SOLD me stuff to use on my Connie and since I would be flying it and looking at it and walking through it that will be all the context I would need.
We know from canon that Star Fleet designs changed considerably from the time of Connies. We do not know this about Vulcan ship designs.
Also, the D'Kyr is T4, not T5, and there is no lower tier version, supporting the premise that it is a new vessel on the same hull pattern.
I am a Trekkie, and therefore i have my own opinions, if you disagree, then excellent! You just help illustrate my point that Trekkies are an incredibly diverse and hard to please group! All the more reason PWE needs to take this into account and start treating this like game like Star Trek.
P.S. I never wanted to step on the backs of our geeky-forefathers. I was going to say "Or, abusing one of the oldest nerd subsets for fun and profit". I seriously was, it just didn't fit in the header. :frown:
By your own admission, you are saying you're one of the hardest type of people to please, with differing opinions on the game. Couple that with mmo players in general being notoriously hard to please, and cryptic having its hands tied with what it can do, there is not much hope.
I'm pretty sure they do their best, I know they do work in their spare time, but they are always going to get some trekker/Trekkie ripping them apart because it doesn't live up to what they want the game to be. An expectation that is wholly unrealistic I would wager.
Glad you corrected the OP on the whole "Westley" thing. And he calls himself a Trekky? And yes, there are Trekkies and there are also Trekkers.
Trekkies tend to be those whom are true fanatics about the show, you know, the ones who go in full Klingon Regalia including professional grade prosthetic foreheads (and not just to conventions either). Trekkers on the other hand, while just as devoted to the shows, do not go all out and dress like Mister Woof (yes this is an intentional "typo" Fellow TNG Trek Fans will get the joke) to go pick up milk from the local store (yes, believe it or not I have seen a couple around here with my own eyes who go out on a daily basis to the grocery store dressed in full Star Trek Costumes).
Wait, I'm confused. Again. I was of the understanding that "Trekkers" were the hardcore fans that did the whole costume thing and incorporated Trek into their everyday lives as much as possible. While "Trekkies", on the other hand, were those who are fans of all things Trek but can't(or won't) go the true hardcore course.
I went to a convention a couple of decades ago and was talking to a couple of guys decked out in Klingon garb. I(unknowingly at the time) called them "Trekkies". The two of them looked as if they could actually take my head off with their homemade bat'leths, they would have. I was informed rather impatiantly that they were, indeed, "Trekkers". I was told calling them "Trekkies" was actually insulting to them.
So which is it?
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
The Scalable Connie will most likely be just a fluff type item providing a unique visual for those who stuck out 1,000 days like custom mounts in WoW.
It might be better as a skin so PvP'rs won't know what they are facing.
Face it without the Connie, all the genners would be flying xwings.
Of course with the new movies erasing the genner time line......
No one said it would actually exist, primarily because it won't. That's one of the few lines that PWE/Cryptic seem to know is best not to cross. T2, T3, T4, and T5 (and T6, T7, etc. :rolleyes:) connie just don't belong, and shouldn't ever exist.
No one said it would actually exist, primarily because it won't. That's one of the few lines that PWE/Cryptic seem to know is best not to cross. T2, T3, T4, and T5 (and T6, T7, etc. :rolleyes:) connie just don't belong, and shouldn't ever exist.
I think i also saw somewhere that CBS have outright said NO to a T5 Connie anyways.
Trekkies do not want to be told what to like. We don't care how much work it took, or how awesome you think it is, if it is shoved in our faces, we will hate it.
Star Trek fans are the model of, "Unpleasable fanbase". If you disagree, it means you've forgotten the first three years of every Trek series that came out in the 90s.
The rest of the fanblather isn't legit enough to be sarcastic about.
I'll be honest, I thought the op was going to be filled with a ineffective angry rant.
I was pleasantly surprised.
You make some valuable points. +1 for you :biggrin:
If you find yourself participating in a discussion, and you know nothing can ever persuade you to alter your view, please recognize that you are not being objective about the subject at hand and further discussion with you is futile.
=/\= Fleet Admiral Shin
Subscriber since 1-28-2010
Star Trek fans are the model of, "Unpleasable fanbase".
So why try, right?
Apparently that's the PWE business model as well! They have -0- respect for star trek or it's fans. They just want our money, and they will go away when that money stops coming in.
Apparently that's the PWE business model as well! They have -0- respect for star trek or it's fans. They just want our money, and they will go away when that money stops coming in.
Now you know what to do!
Why not try? Licensed games are notorious for their quality, as are F2P MMOs. So indeed, Cryptic and PWE have ever the odds stacked against them.
But think about it. This is Star Trek. A franchise that has among the most dedicated and obsessed fans in the entirety of nerd-dom. We saved it TWICE. We WANT to see this game succeed. We will help to see this game succeed. Someone in this very thread mentioned that Trekkies/Trekkers (Glad to see so many remember the difference) are very creative people. He's right. We are. We would use that to help this game become the best it can be. And this game could be something very good.
The only thing PWE needs to do is let us do that. Changing the forums like this is not a good way to do that.
Holding priority polls, ship/costume design contests, integrating foundry missions into the standard game, player created STF's, PvP & PvE maps, adding more customization items, and better social zones are good ways to do that.
PWE could very easily have a very successful IP in a genera that is not known for it, simply because we want it to be that way.
My question to PWE, is are you going to help us.... help you?
PWE could very easily have a very successful IP in a genera that is not known for it, simply because we want it to be that way.
My question to PWE, is are you going to help us.... help you?
Again, the problem here is the pronoun 'we.'
There were threads criticizing the quality of the content and suggesting the Foundry does better. So they start promoting the foundry and there are a bunch of posts complaining that PWE is abdicating responsibility and making the players do all the creation work.
And then you have the faction that hates anything new or different, and wants the Connie to be equal to the best ships in the game.
And the faction that hates the thought not just of Trek being anything other than morality plays but also of anything that they see as distracting from that in any way.
And the faction which is pretty much completely the opposite, who love the tech of trek and just want to fly the ships.
And of course everyone in between.
The trick, of course, and challenge to Cryptic/PWE is to somehow provide for the various factions and convince them to quit getting upset at those who disagree with them as to 'what Trek is.'
In a sad way, this whole exercise is a massive Trek episode about bringing disparate interests together. It is sad because of the large numbers of people continuing to claim that only their vision is the correct one.
No one said it would actually exist, primarily because it won't. That's one of the few lines that PWE/Cryptic seem to know is best not to cross. T2, T3, T4, and T5 (and T6, T7, etc. :rolleyes:) connie just don't belong, and shouldn't ever exist.
Fortunately Cryptic is no longer in control and we should see lot's of these wonderful ideas that have been previously squashed by catering to overloud forum opinions from immersion zealots.
PWE doesn't appear to cater to tantrums and I salute them for that.
Like the Federation Carriers I was repeatedly abused about.
PWE doesn't appear to cater to tantrums and I salute them for that.
.
This^ People don't realize that forums make up a very small percentage of the game population.
People need to understand PWE is a business with bills and people to pay, this game can't move forward without cash, and if this game fails don't expect another Star Trek one to just pop into place. There is a reason they focus on c-store fed ships, duty rewards and lock boxes, they obviously generate a good bit of revenue that goes back into the game to pay for season 6 and 7. People's mindset of PWE rolling naked in beds of cash laughing at the players is stupidly unfounded.
Fortunately Cryptic is no longer in control and we should see lot's of these wonderful ideas that have been previously squashed by catering to overloud forum opinions from immersion zealots.
PWE doesn't appear to cater to tantrums and I salute them for that.
Like the Federation Carriers I was repeatedly abused about.
Thing is it does not matter if Cryptic is in control or PWE.
CBS still holds the ownership and license to Star Trek and still has the final say of yes or no in terms of what can and cannot be added in to the game.
Just about anything Cryptic or PWE want to add to the game has to go through CBS for approval first.
Thing is it does not matter if Cryptic is in control or PWE.
CBS still holds the ownership and license to Star Trek and still has the final say of yes or no in terms of what can and cannot be added in to the game.
Just about anything Cryptic or PWE want to add to the game has to go through CBS for approval first.
While this is true it is unclear how true it really is. ST: V and Nemesis both happened, despite corporate 'quality control.'
Star Trek books continue to be released with varying degrees of quality and with the understanding that they are not canon. Star Fleet Battles seems to continue to truck along in the background with a very divergent universe.
It really comes down to how well they can negotiate with CBS and how much CBS cares. The former might have changed with PWE now being in control. New owners, potentially new marketing department. The latter could change at any time. It is not like networks are known for their constancy.
Personally I think the biggest obstacle would be for the player base to accept STO as non-canon, and for there to be less resistance to anything truly new (carriers being the most recent 'controversial' example).
Also, for the 'purists' to accept more action in their exploration and for the gamers to accept more dialogue in their action.
Why not try? Licensed games are notorious for their quality, as are F2P MMOs. So indeed, Cryptic and PWE have ever the odds stacked against them.
But think about it. This is Star Trek. A franchise that has among the most dedicated and obsessed fans in the entirety of nerd-dom. We saved it TWICE. We WANT to see this game succeed. We will help to see this game succeed. Someone in this very thread mentioned that Trekkies/Trekkers (Glad to see so many remember the difference) are very creative people. He's right. We are. We would use that to help this game become the best it can be. And this game could be something very good.
The only thing PWE needs to do is let us do that. Changing the forums like this is not a good way to do that.
Holding priority polls, ship/costume design contests, integrating foundry missions into the standard game, player created STF's, PvP & PvE maps, adding more customization items, and better social zones are good ways to do that.
PWE could very easily have a very successful IP in a genera that is not known for it, simply because we want it to be that way.
My question to PWE, is are you going to help us.... help you?
There have been three Foundry Challenges. of those three I have a first and second place finish. I'm in a position to say that you couldn't be more right, more correct. If PWE would back off and let us Trek Fans do what we do, they would make millions.
Instead, we see complaint threads being moved off the main board.
There have been three Foundry Challenges. of those three I have a first and second place finish. I'm in a position to say that you couldn't be more right, more correct. If PWE would back off and let us Trek Fans do what we do, they would make millions.
Instead, we see complaint threads being moved off the main board.
Nice.
There are daily spotlights on Foundry missions now.. how are they not 'backing off?'
And how about the complaint threads complaining that Foundry missions don't advance 'the official story?' If they 'back off' wouldn't that be more so rather than less? Since there would be no coordination as to what is 'the story?'
And what of players who just love the tech of trek and want to fly ships, without all the pretense that occasionally comes from writers?
How do they 'make millions' from your writing, especially if Foundry missions emphasize story over combat, given that right now, ships are the main source of revenue (via direct c store purchase or by indirect lockbox / doff pack purchase)?
If 'real trek' is mostly dialogue, why would anyone spend more than a couple dollars for a new ship?
Comments
I think he is confusing "Trekkies" with "Hippies" or "Yuppies." This should not be surprising since there is definitely some generational overlap.
I fully endorse this statement/product/political stance
Community is also something Trekkers and Trekkies cherish. STO in that regard is like a 24/7 convention without the many hours invested in travel. I can't think of a more closely knit group of people. Faithful to Trek. That zeal must be respected by those who seek finacial gain by entering OUR universe. We are a very warm and friendly lot, but we are not pushovers. Honor means something in Trek for all of us. Treat us as we would treat you, lest beware.
I have no problem with contributing to the finacial success of STO, all I ask of PWE and Cryptic is to do so with the spirit of Star Trek in mind.
I will probably giggle myself to death if they release the Scalable Connie for the 1.000 day Vet reward.
I needed medication after the Fed Carrier release!
Seriously, SANDBOX. Don't worry about what others are flying.
Yes yes, sandbox, so T6 shuttles with the firepower of any T6 ship for all!
In fact, why stop with Trek ships if it is sandbox... I want to fly the Battleship Yamato!
If you are saying 'sandbox' and don't care what else is out there, why do you care about flying a connie in the first place? You lose all context......
They SOLD me stuff to use on my Connie and since I would be flying it and looking at it and walking through it that will be all the context I would need.
We know from canon that Star Fleet designs changed considerably from the time of Connies. We do not know this about Vulcan ship designs.
Also, the D'Kyr is T4, not T5, and there is no lower tier version, supporting the premise that it is a new vessel on the same hull pattern.
It might be better as a skin so PvP'rs won't know what they are facing.
Face it without the Connie, all the genners would be flying xwings.
Of course with the new movies erasing the genner time line......
We have a T5 B'Rel in the game. I see no one mentioning anything about 100+ year old KLINGON ships. :rolleyes:
But my point still stands.
By your own admission, you are saying you're one of the hardest type of people to please, with differing opinions on the game. Couple that with mmo players in general being notoriously hard to please, and cryptic having its hands tied with what it can do, there is not much hope.
I'm pretty sure they do their best, I know they do work in their spare time, but they are always going to get some trekker/Trekkie ripping them apart because it doesn't live up to what they want the game to be. An expectation that is wholly unrealistic I would wager.
Again, the evidence is that the Klingons kept with the design. Their cruiser designs showed evolution, but not so much their BoPs.
If we had a T5 K'Tinga you might have had a point, but we do not.
Wait, I'm confused. Again. I was of the understanding that "Trekkers" were the hardcore fans that did the whole costume thing and incorporated Trek into their everyday lives as much as possible. While "Trekkies", on the other hand, were those who are fans of all things Trek but can't(or won't) go the true hardcore course.
I went to a convention a couple of decades ago and was talking to a couple of guys decked out in Klingon garb. I(unknowingly at the time) called them "Trekkies". The two of them looked as if they could actually take my head off with their homemade bat'leths, they would have. I was informed rather impatiantly that they were, indeed, "Trekkers". I was told calling them "Trekkies" was actually insulting to them.
So which is it?
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
No one said it would actually exist, primarily because it won't. That's one of the few lines that PWE/Cryptic seem to know is best not to cross. T2, T3, T4, and T5 (and T6, T7, etc. :rolleyes:) connie just don't belong, and shouldn't ever exist.
I think i also saw somewhere that CBS have outright said NO to a T5 Connie anyways.
Star Trek fans are the model of, "Unpleasable fanbase". If you disagree, it means you've forgotten the first three years of every Trek series that came out in the 90s.
The rest of the fanblather isn't legit enough to be sarcastic about.
I was pleasantly surprised.
You make some valuable points. +1 for you :biggrin:
If you find yourself participating in a discussion, and you know nothing can ever persuade you to alter your view, please recognize that you are not being objective about the subject at hand and further discussion with you is futile.
=/\= Fleet Admiral Shin
Subscriber since 1-28-2010
So why try, right?
Apparently that's the PWE business model as well! They have -0- respect for star trek or it's fans. They just want our money, and they will go away when that money stops coming in.
Now you know what to do!
Join Date: Sep 2008
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: CHANGE THE FORUMS BACK !!!
Why not try? Licensed games are notorious for their quality, as are F2P MMOs. So indeed, Cryptic and PWE have ever the odds stacked against them.
But think about it. This is Star Trek. A franchise that has among the most dedicated and obsessed fans in the entirety of nerd-dom. We saved it TWICE. We WANT to see this game succeed. We will help to see this game succeed. Someone in this very thread mentioned that Trekkies/Trekkers (Glad to see so many remember the difference) are very creative people. He's right. We are. We would use that to help this game become the best it can be. And this game could be something very good.
The only thing PWE needs to do is let us do that. Changing the forums like this is not a good way to do that.
Holding priority polls, ship/costume design contests, integrating foundry missions into the standard game, player created STF's, PvP & PvE maps, adding more customization items, and better social zones are good ways to do that.
PWE could very easily have a very successful IP in a genera that is not known for it, simply because we want it to be that way.
My question to PWE, is are you going to help us.... help you?
Again, the problem here is the pronoun 'we.'
There were threads criticizing the quality of the content and suggesting the Foundry does better. So they start promoting the foundry and there are a bunch of posts complaining that PWE is abdicating responsibility and making the players do all the creation work.
And then you have the faction that hates anything new or different, and wants the Connie to be equal to the best ships in the game.
And the faction that hates the thought not just of Trek being anything other than morality plays but also of anything that they see as distracting from that in any way.
And the faction which is pretty much completely the opposite, who love the tech of trek and just want to fly the ships.
And of course everyone in between.
The trick, of course, and challenge to Cryptic/PWE is to somehow provide for the various factions and convince them to quit getting upset at those who disagree with them as to 'what Trek is.'
In a sad way, this whole exercise is a massive Trek episode about bringing disparate interests together. It is sad because of the large numbers of people continuing to claim that only their vision is the correct one.
Fortunately Cryptic is no longer in control and we should see lot's of these wonderful ideas that have been previously squashed by catering to overloud forum opinions from immersion zealots.
PWE doesn't appear to cater to tantrums and I salute them for that.
Like the Federation Carriers I was repeatedly abused about.
This^ People don't realize that forums make up a very small percentage of the game population.
People need to understand PWE is a business with bills and people to pay, this game can't move forward without cash, and if this game fails don't expect another Star Trek one to just pop into place. There is a reason they focus on c-store fed ships, duty rewards and lock boxes, they obviously generate a good bit of revenue that goes back into the game to pay for season 6 and 7. People's mindset of PWE rolling naked in beds of cash laughing at the players is stupidly unfounded.
Thing is it does not matter if Cryptic is in control or PWE.
CBS still holds the ownership and license to Star Trek and still has the final say of yes or no in terms of what can and cannot be added in to the game.
Just about anything Cryptic or PWE want to add to the game has to go through CBS for approval first.
While this is true it is unclear how true it really is. ST: V and Nemesis both happened, despite corporate 'quality control.'
Star Trek books continue to be released with varying degrees of quality and with the understanding that they are not canon. Star Fleet Battles seems to continue to truck along in the background with a very divergent universe.
It really comes down to how well they can negotiate with CBS and how much CBS cares. The former might have changed with PWE now being in control. New owners, potentially new marketing department. The latter could change at any time. It is not like networks are known for their constancy.
Personally I think the biggest obstacle would be for the player base to accept STO as non-canon, and for there to be less resistance to anything truly new (carriers being the most recent 'controversial' example).
Also, for the 'purists' to accept more action in their exploration and for the gamers to accept more dialogue in their action.
Dec/2008
There have been three Foundry Challenges. of those three I have a first and second place finish. I'm in a position to say that you couldn't be more right, more correct. If PWE would back off and let us Trek Fans do what we do, they would make millions.
Instead, we see complaint threads being moved off the main board.
Nice.
Join Date: Sep 2008
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: CHANGE THE FORUMS BACK !!!
There are daily spotlights on Foundry missions now.. how are they not 'backing off?'
And how about the complaint threads complaining that Foundry missions don't advance 'the official story?' If they 'back off' wouldn't that be more so rather than less? Since there would be no coordination as to what is 'the story?'
And what of players who just love the tech of trek and want to fly ships, without all the pretense that occasionally comes from writers?
How do they 'make millions' from your writing, especially if Foundry missions emphasize story over combat, given that right now, ships are the main source of revenue (via direct c store purchase or by indirect lockbox / doff pack purchase)?
If 'real trek' is mostly dialogue, why would anyone spend more than a couple dollars for a new ship?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |