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Khitomer Space elite - another tactic?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
So I've been noticing the last few times I've played Khitomer space on elite that people are splitting up and going 3 and 2 to different sides. And every time it leads to a mess. Not only are groups not completing the optional, but I've been seeing about a 1 in 4 mission failure since this has started happening.
Today I asked why people were splitting and one of the other players says that it's the newest bestest way to win.
Have I missed something? Has something changed and now splitting is the way to go?
Today I asked why people were splitting and one of the other players says that it's the newest bestest way to win.
Have I missed something? Has something changed and now splitting is the way to go?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Seriously asking. Maybe I;m not seeing something here.
The 'normal' configuration is 4/1. One guy on the opposite side shooting probes as they pop in and leaving the gate alone. He can pop a few generators, just avoid shooting the cubes that come in and they are happy to just hover. It's all in the training guide in the sticky.
Probes from both sides do need to be taken out, but in normals, in addition to someone covering them I have seen a lot of splitting between sides rather than taking out one side ASAP, and seen this regardless of the firepower the person splitting off has or does not have.
I can't imagine that going well in an elite.
I've only done one elite so far and it was by accident. I definitely was not ready yet. Thankfully we won despite my under-geared ship
That's what I'm familiar with. Just wanted to make sure....
We did one where the lone ship sat in front of the middle gate. Got overwhelmed as he was too close and didn;t have enough time to pop the probes.
edit: Thanks for the response
essentially it is a very good tactic, if you have the ships and players to do it.
basically the 2 guys on one side take out the cubes together, while 1 is on probe duty (normally somebody fast, with a lot of firepower) the other kills generators. When the probe guy is free (and he should be able to kill the probes fast) he helps killing the generators.
on the other side, one is allways on probe duty (mostly a cruiser or sci ship, but not necessarely). the other 2 take out cubes/generators.
when one gate is done all hurry to the other side, or one changes even before the first gate blows.
now this tactic becomes harder and harder to pull off, the more ships on the lower dps end join the grp. after killing the tactical cube at start, and depending on the time it took, you can see if a 3/2 is possible or not.
I would never do it without atleast 2 escorts, or klingon cruisers doing close to that amount of dmg.
PS: carriers are cool for probe duty, since they can take them down in a reasonable amount of time, and order their ships to engage the generators quickly without moving towards them by themselves.
It also annoyes me as I am typically always the one that breaks off as my Defiant is setup for that role I can take out the probes generators and the the cudes myself makeing the right side easy pickings once the other guys are ready.. when I see someone come over with me my heart drops as I know something bad is going to happen.
Often if that happens I try to leave for the main side to help the fire power there and just keep a VERY close eye I the right sides probes.. as that person usually misses them.
Same here in my MVAE! Through forum guides and video walkthrough, I have always known that you start with the left gate and the left transformer. I just wish those flying support type ships i.e. you science and engi guys in your beam boats would realize their roles...that they are there for support. I don't care that you like flying a cruiser or a carrier, but know that you can't dish out the dps required for elite STF's and leave those priority targets for tac captains in tac escorts.
I can understand how you may have gotten this impression but it isnt true that science ships and crusers have no place in elite stfs. Sadly most people fly these ships badly and with the wrong boff skills, but I have been the only escort in more then a few elite stfs that we have compleeted with 5 minutes to spare on the optional. I am good but not good enough to carry a team that well.
Yes, but it only works with a high DPS team.. i.e. if I have more than 2 cruisers in my team I will stay the standard 1 and 4.
i.e.
3 2
1 on probes 1 on probes
1 on "left" transformer 1 doing his own thing trying to solo the whole goddamn gate
1 on "right" transformer
What people simply will not do (even though it's the most sensible thing imo) is to stick together as much as possible unless absolutely necessary (i.e. probe duty guys). Napoleon didn't split his forces up to face all his foes at once, he kept them together and took out one foe at a time which is what needs to be done in pretty much all stfs!
I wish people saw this..
Just felt it worth pointing out: The poster did not say cruisers and science vessels "have no place" in STFs. His implication (at least how I read it and agree with him on) is that players in cruisers and sci-vessels who think they can out-DPS a dedicated tac warship tend to try and fill the role of a tac escort. And most of the time, they simply make a mess of things. You're right in observing that some folks just don't have the right setups and powers for the job and that just makes things worse if they decide to do something out of their depth.
I have seen this happen often in Elites, especially with KDF carriers and Odyssey-cruisers who think they can do an escort's job or think their awesome flying crate is invincible. Unfortunately, they overestimate their ability to kill things fast and if they cannot hack it to survive, two spheres or a cube winds up ripping those unfortunate players to pieces, letting the probes through.
One such carrier took it upon himself to "help" me by blowing up all the repair nodes I had purposefully left near death, thus aggroing in a cube to attack, totally ignoring the probes in the process. I kindly cloaked (BoP) and let him dance with the cube he so wanted to meet, and went on to attack the probes while he respawned and headbutted the cube again. He made a fine distraction. Gotta make lemonade out of lemons sometimes...
Generally, Cruisers and Science vessels should not try to be the muscle-head gun-gods required to dish out great damage fast. Much like trying to tank a Tac Cube's damage is not the ideal job for a flimsy escort. These things CAN be accomplished, but they're better off sticking to their specific roles. And cruisers and science vessels support.
I personally hate them, because more often than not they're a sign that the PuG is not familiar with 4/1 (or doesn't care about the optional). PuG 3/2s tend to happen when a hotshot thinks s/he doesn't need to follow a strategy and does what they want to do, and for the people trying to follow a strategy they then have to adjust to accommodate in order to succeed.
Again, all ships have to contribute to accomplishing the goal and not do useless things like float in space waiting for probes to come to them. Why not gnaw on the repair nodes in the meanwhile? Destroy one and weaken the others inbetween probe spawnings so that you're not just sitting idle and making the mission longer by dint of not contributing. These're things to consider.
You'd still have an armada of borg ships to contend with THEN Donatra. Not like it would be a cakewalk.
note: to be sure, its good if everybody is reading chat or you are on a teamspeak in case it gets nasty in the middle and you cannot (at some point) handle both probes anymore
Because in my experience, an eng in a beam boat cruiser doesn't tend to have "inbetween" time.
For me, probe duty consists of an assembly line of probes popping out as fast as I can kill them.
So far, they don't get by me, but some have gotten pretty dang close
I have been around the block a few times, and have learned my best method for myself.
The team goes left, I go right, and take out probes. In between probes, I take out a generator on each side, then the other, using Evasive maneuvers to get away from the cube before aggroing it. Works nearly every time.
they do not fail because of the split, but because they have no dps/risistance/decent build or do not pay attention to probes.
15 minutes are enough for a good escort to destroy 2 cubes, 8 nanite generators, 2 nanite transformers and a gate... if someone else destroy the probes coming out from that gate.
Fore Weapons:
Dual Cannons x2
Quantum Torpedo vs. Borg
Turret
Aft Weapons:
Turret x2
Quantum Tordpedo vs. Borg
Consoles:
Eng: Borg, 3.2 power to Aux Console, 3.5 to weapons
Science: Biofunction Monitor, +13% shield Regen
Tactical: Blue Anti_Proton Mag Regulators Mk11 x3, Anti-Proton Mag Regulator Mk10 Purple
Also, is there a particular DOff set up that may help?
You're in a defiant. That means you're in one of the fastest and most maneuverable ships fed side. If you're having trouble facing your opponents, then not much anyone says on here is going to help you.
3 DHCs (or 2 DHCs and a DC) and a torpedo up front, 3 turrets in the back, maybe two turrets and a mine launcher if you want to be different.
With the tactical boff slots you have enough room for 2 tactical teams, 2 attack patterns (Id double up on beta), 2 cannon skills (scatter volley is pretty much necessary for doing probe duty and its still respectable single target), and 2 torpedo skills (again, spread would be the more universally useful option here as it still does a hell of a lot of damage single target).
Doff wise, I dont know if anyone has covered this yet but the key is 3 purple conn officers. That will take your evasive maneuvers cool down to 15 seconds. with the right engine (hyper impulse) that will let you burn across the entire map and cover *all* the probe defense yourself.
Others that can be useful: Projectile weapon officers (purple for 40 edcs from Roxy), Shield distribution (expensive as hell, none that I know of from Lt. Ferra), Damage control engineers. Theres lots of stuff, but the most useful Ive found are the conn.
Oh, and consoles. Wow. 3 Neutronium Alloy for eng, Borg and Biofunction or Shield Emitter for sci, either 3 Ap mags and a Quantum Zero point or 2 of each
my build (for a MVAE)
fore weapons:
3xDHC
1xDBB
Aft
2xbeam array
1xquantum torpedo
console:
eng: 1 x multivector atk console (the one you get with MVAE), 1xborg console
sci: 3xfield generator
maco shield, borg engine and borg deflector
boff abilities:
eng: EPtS1, EPtS2
sci: TSS1, TSS2, HE3
tact: TT1, TT1, BO1, BO2, CRF1, APO1, CRF3
on your ship you can do better with the boff abilities:
eng: EPtS1, EPtS2
sci: TSS1, TSS2
tact: TT1, BO2, APO1, CRF3 - TT1, BO2, CRF2 - THY1
if you want you can use CSV instead of CRF and TS1 instead of THY1
with that build, when you front your opponent, use CRF
when your opponent is rear of you (on on your side) use BO and THY
always use TT, TSS and EPtS... costantly.
Yup - Had a Tact (in a Cruiser) rest Sci & Eng wanting to do 2/3 split (only confirming that after the fact).
In an STF with no Tacts in Escorts I think the Standard 1 & 4 is best.
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serenitystation.forumotion.com/f8-request-to-join-fleet
It's doable, I've done it, but it can only be easier to 3/2.
Unless that lone individual is a leech (someone that only kills probes is quite frankly leeching); then, yeah, it can work if the rest of the team carries him.