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Torpedo: High Yeild vs. Spread
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Firstly, which is better to use against a single target.
The AoE of Torpedo Spread or the High Yeild Torpedo?
If I wanted to hit multiple targets Torp Spread is obvious choice.
But which is best one on one?
The AoE of Torpedo Spread or the High Yeild Torpedo?
If I wanted to hit multiple targets Torp Spread is obvious choice.
But which is best one on one?
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there has been a calculation for it, but i can't find it anymore. Until nobody has proof otherwise, and is willing to post it here, go for spread.
PS: be careful, u aggro stuff easily with spread!
In pvp its fine for controlling spam I guess... but lacks any killing power and you are lucky enough to land torps on one person with out a shield facing let alone 2.
In PvE you will draw argo on all the things you don't want to draw argo on... don't be the spreader that pulls tac cubes and gets one shot by gates that would have ignored you.
Also HY single target dmg IS MUCH higher. One you get an extra dmg hit...2 they all hit 20% higher. 3... if your a tac or a sci with sensor scan those higher base numbers translate into MASSIVE crits.
Yes Spread is usable where it was once junk... still HY is better in every situation I can think of. The first change to spread made it much better then HY... it has since been corrected and works as it should. Really outside of spam control I don't see the point.
In a lot of builds I have seen people going for Spread over HY and if its PvE and I want to avoid agro I couldnt see why!
Further question, again which is better for PvE STF's
Cannon Scatter Volley or Cannon Rapid Fire?
Thanks again
If you use a combo of FAW and Spread on an Eng captain with a cruiser it can be pretty effective for tanking and taking on lots of opponents at once. Makes pulling aggro off those squishy escorts a lot easier, too.
As for cannons, unless you're planning on drawing aggro, rapid fire will beat out scatter on single-target every time. It's the same as HY vs Spread, just with cannon bursts instead of torps. And in STF's, it's not about taking on everything at once, it's about quickly and efficiently DPSing one thing down and then moving to the next target.
Torpedo spread 3 will commonly do ten K damage per hit on hull in PVP. Boomage! and if it happens to hit four other targets in PVP well what do I care? More boomage! I'm a BO3 type of guy in pvp so I really have no opinion on scatter volley 2 and 3. I use it, I do decent damage, its just not as bursty as BO3 with TS3 and APO.
Did you know that torpedoes are one of the most fun and very goodest aoe damage doers in PVE? Its true! A lot of times in missions your alone
Cannon scatter and torpedo spread will give you your best damage over the course of a complete STF. There's not to many ways around that. Even if the aoe attacks did only half the damage of the single target, and they don't they are over 70%, you would have to attack over twice as many times to out do the aoe damage. And since there are little things like oh, time constraints and total possible number of targets that will ever be available to shoot at in an stf, aoe will be king.
If you're being killed in an stf because you annoyed a nanite probe or a sphere, you may need to fine tune your build a bit.
Cheers!
All 3 Elite STFs do have a need for some level of spam control.
CSE: BoPs / Raptors / Neg'vars
ISE: Mass of Spheres
KASE: Probes
On top of these, all three will see these enemies clumped together and moving directly toward the player, an Escort with CSV can easily strip the shield facing off of multiple targets and follow it with TS.
On ISE in particular 2-3 AoE focused Escorts can make really quick work of the mass of spheres.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
Against a single target HYT & CRF win.
However, I don't have a percentage of by how much more they win by.
Spread and scatter are both better for PvE. Learning to stay alive while using them is what you should really be working on.
Rapid fire and HY is great for PvP and single targets, but in STFs 99.9% of the time the optional hinges on killing clusters of enemies fast.
Spread is great for STF's when you have just done an attack run on a cube, flipped around and just about to start another attack run and noticed one of your team mates running from a big fat plasma torpedo. hit the torpedo spread wait until in range of plasma torp and hit the fire. chances are the torp spread will get the nasty plasma torp. (i am hopeless at changing targets quick enough) and you are still targeted on the cube, your team mate is saved.
But as said it does mean you will get agro from any spheres, BOP's dont last long with to much targetting them. On my fed cruiser its spread all the way, i want the agro, i want all the borg firing at me, i can take like a man. Just means all team mates can concentrait on killing one sphere at a time while i get all the attention.
Kerrat is a strange one, if it is a case of fighting on spawn as so often the case spread is great, torp spread 3 the feds love it. but if you are cloaked and hunting a single fed in middle of borg torp spread is lethal, so many times have i been so close to killing fed, and got killed by the borg because of my usage of torp spread instead of high yield.
I have come to the conclusion that is probaly worth adding an extra 2 officer slots, setting up tactical officers in different ways and just swapping them around to fit the mission.
You can only use two Torpedo abilities, any more than that causes cool down conflicts as both High Yield and Spread have fifteen second cool downs which means two abilities will constantly lock out the other two.
Exactly. This is THE way to deal with probes. Need to do damage to 2-4 targets fast. If you kill 1 target fast then have to dink around on the remaining 3 you've got problems in Kitomer.
Not neccessarily. For example, killing the nanites uder the cubes in Cure... Attack Beta + Fire at will + spread torpedos is a great way to put out the hurt. You just have to know that you can deal with the heat that may come with it.
On my klingon tactical captain, I've just been doing rapid fire cannons for quick termination...he can not handle the heat well.
When I dont want aggro I will HY and CRF, when I want to damage a trio or so of spheres I will Spread + CSV
High Yield is for moving targets.
Thankfully my best tactical officer has Both options.
T'pammu is invaluable in that role.
so when i next went to take on those nasty BO NPCs an their HY heavy plasma torps (that stack damage dealing 20-30k+) i saved my TS for when they fired. then couple that to their lowered shields id then hit tractor beam, reduce my speed, jam sensors and angle my ship to get all phasers firing with wep set to full power.
in terms of PVE its very handy, dozens of time ive gone into encounters (including kerratt) used torp spread and fire at will, to take aggro an then used my EBO to heal up the friendly while i take the heat. 7/10 times i find myself tanking for a short period as the sacrifice i made turned the tide.
reverse polarity skills are another godsend heh. but im not gonna reveal much more of my skills just yet.
Not sure about the above... based on Aug 2011 patch notes,
I tried to look for any newer torp spread damage revisions but failed to find any. The latest torp spread damage analysis thread I found was here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=239389
So, unless I'm missing something, TS gives up 15% of its equivalent HYT damage for enhanced AoE damage burst. For STF's, this is a very good trade given how often Borg ships spawn togehter. For PVP, HYT is a slightly better, especially when backed by target shield subsystems. Both HYT and TS have their own strengths and weaknesses.
I don't have the game in front of me to check, but if someone else does here's how to get the numbers:
0) Equip a torpedo launcher. (Note: it doesn't matter if you has TS or HY slotted)
1) Go to a system map (i.e. not sector space and not ground)
2) Press P
3) Select the ability to launch a single torpedo (I think it's "Launch _____ Torpedo")
4) Scroll down in the description. No matter what BOFF abilities you have slotted, it should provide:
- Unmodified DPS
- TS1 DPS per target
- TS2 DPS per target
- TS3 DPS per target
- HY1 DPS
- HY2 DPS
- HY3 DPS
Note: you can do the same to evaluate CSV and CRF.
Is talking about when spread 1st came out it was "bugged" and critted like something that crits alot. it was fixed.
I'm not so sure about this... his post was dated 4/16/2012, well after the big crit Torp spreads were fixed. With HYT being only +15% higher than TS, and only single-target, it is not a "huge" damage boost, especially when modern weapon consoles add +26%. TS actually gains big DPS over HYT when engaging multiple targets (which is the norm in elite STF's).
Because of the limited tactical slots on an assault cruiser I went with BFaW and TS as my primary damage causing implements due to reasons aforesaid - crowd control is important for ESTFs.
I also like calling out 'Full peanut butter spread!' when I activate the TS and TRIBBLE all over a bunch of poor probes.
Besides, both BFaW and TS are also effective versus single targets, with DBBs and buffs, tremendously so.
The only reason why I would use HY is if the ship is going to spam both front and rear torpedoes simultaneously (as my RSV can, fire fore then swing around fast and spam again from aft), or to see those fantastic heavy tricobalt device graphics.
But seeing as TCBs are really useless due to the low rate of fire I decided BFaW was a much better skill than HY.
Tested with a Standard White Mk XII Quantum Torp
Unslotted Damage: 3342 (393 DPS)
Base Slotted Damage: 4830 (568 DPS)
(with Weapons Training 9 and Projectile Weapons 9)
** Damage Numbers by Skill **
Base Slotted Damage: 4830
with TS3: 2848 x4 = 11392 (Max 5 Targets)
with TS2: 3330 x3 = 9990 (Max 4 Targets)
with TS1: 4303 x2 = 8606 (Max 3 Targets)
with HY3: 3560 x4 = 14240
with HY2: 4163 x3 = 12489
with HY1: 5378 x2 = 10756
** Best Damage versus 1 Target, in descending order: **
HY3: +194.82% of Base Slotted Damage
HY2: +158.57% of Base Slotted Damage
TS3: +135.86% of Base Slotted Damage
HY1: +122.69% of Base Slotted Damage
TS2: +106.83% of Base Slotted Damage
TS1: +78.18% of Base Slotted Damage
Obviously, Spread attacks are ALWAYS better if you have more than one foe in your 90' torpedo arc.
However the damage can really start to skyrocket with Spread attacks if enemies are tightly clustered together (to stack up splash damage). Unfortunately splash damage is only really applicable in a few limited situations, since it requires ships to be very close together - within 300m of each other to see any benefit. The most common real-game examples of this will include fighters, probes, and anything you've bunched up with a Gravity Well.
Note also that:
(i) The more tightly bundled your foes are, the higher the damage numbers will rise - the torpedo explosion AoE is only 300m wide and splash damage drops off linearly - so a ship sitting 75m away will get 75% of the normal explosion damage, 150m will get 50%, etc.
(ii) Each HY powers is EXACTLY 1.25 times the damage of the same-tier TS power versus one target.
(iii) Moving from HY2 to HY3 or TS2 to TS3 is a slightly higher damage increase than moving from HY1 to HY2 or TS1 to TS2.
Stacking Other Buffs
Using Tactical Team grants a buff to "Projectile Weapons" which increases damage slightly (approx an extra 2.8% for me - varies very slightly from 2.79 to 2.81 which is probably due to rounding).
** Numbers with Tactical Team 1: **
Normal slotted damage: 4965
with TS3: 2928 x4 = 11712
with TS2: 3423 x3 = 10269
with TS1: 4423 x2 = 8846
with HY3: 3660 x4 = 14640
with HY2: 4279 x3 = 12837
with HY1: 5529 x2 = 11058
Using Attack Pattern Omega grants a flat damage buff. This gets applied against your standard slotted damage AFTER skills are applied... so if you use both Tactical Team 1 and APO1, Tac Team 1 raises your damage by buffing your projectile weapons skill, then APO1 grants you 115% of this (already increased) base damage.
The upshot is that you'll get more damage than you'd expect.
An example of this multiplicative damage stacking with real numbers:
+ TS3 (by itself, 0 buffs): 11392 "standard" damage
+ TS3 with TT1 (+PW Skill): 11712 [an extra + 2.81% of standard]
+ TS3 with APO3 (+ Damage): 14220 [an extra +24.82% of standard]
+ TS3 with both TT1 + APO3: 14616 [an extra +28.30% of standard]
Basically, make sure you have Tac Team running whenever you fire off your other damage buffs... it'll give your torps a little extra "Oomph".
TL;DR version:
+ Stack your buffs (nothing new here)
+ Take HY over TS only if you need to damage one thing at a time. (This rules out a lot of roles in endgame PvE, eg STFs with Kittomer probes, Kang attack waves, and Nanite Spheres - but HY will usually be quicker at killing single big targets like Tac Cubes and Structures)
I previously used tetryon weapons but found them a little too anti-shield focused. Once the target's shields were gone, tetryons essentially become no-proc weapons. Kinetic damage is easily mitigated by Brace for Impact, so a high-yield quantum salvo through an open shield is no guarantee of a pvp quick kill. The 2.5% tetryon weapon base proc rate also made its shield drain very sporadic and unreliable.
If you must focus on shield draining, consider 2 pieces of the STF Omega set if you don't already use them. The Omega 2-set Tetryon Glider bonus adds a fixed -10 shield drain per weapon hit (with +9 flow capactitors), easily outpacing default tetryon weapon procs. Polarized tetryon beam arrays and banks from the New Link mission rewards will also provide superior 10% shield drain proc rates, but no cannon version is available at this time.
Well it depends which value you're taking the percentage of... :-p
The ratio of TS to HYT is 4:5, so you'll gain 25% damage going from TS (4) to HYT (5), or you'll drop 20% damage going from HYT (5) to TS (4). I can't see where 15% would come from though. Geko's comments here seem to correspond with those first numbers anyway.
No worries RE the number crunching.
I had a look at Cannon:Rapid Fire and Cannon:Scatter Volley while I was at it. There's a bit less synergy between Torpedo Spread and Cannon Scatter Volley than I'd first thought - my standard tactic to killing off a group of ships in ESTFs is to pop my buffs (and an Attack Pattern Beta to soften up the foe's hull) and use CSV to strip the shields, followed by a Torpedo Spread to take out most of their (now debuffed) hull. But unfortunately CSV3 only hits up to 3 targets, where TS3 can hit 5... so in big mobs (such as the sphere/probe spawn after killing the first gate in KA) you'll not hit everything with your AoEs. It's certainly still a potent combo, just not as much as I'd initially assumed.
I'm a big fan of the idea of using "Gravity Well" to bunch things up for a Torpedo Spread though.
There is a good deal of synergy when combining AoE attacks like CSV and TS with Attack Pattern Beta 3. My damage output (along with everyone else attacking my present targets) dramatically increases thanks to AP-Beta's -50% damage resist debuff. Unfortunately that leaves my ship vulnerable to borg tractor beams + High Yield Torpedo 1-shots, but tractor beam repulsors easily defeats the latter thanks to its short 30-sec cooldown time.
High YIeld Torpedo is for single target damage. There was a brief time where Torpedo SPread was actually better in both cases, as the damage of TS was delivered in a single blow, instead of multiple torpedoes. That meanst criticals could beocme much higher, since they boosted the entire damage, not just the damage delivered by one of the torpedoes. Not that relevant in PvE, but in PvP, where enemies are constantly getting healed, delivering a single, massive blow before anyone can heal it is pretty useful (even if it happens less often). But since that is now fixed, HYT is better for single targets again.
I can't check in-game, and I keep forgetting to, but is APB 3 actually -50% resistance or is it -50 resistance?
What I mean is, in the same way that a Neutronium MK XI Rare isn't +18% resistance and is instead +18 resistance which then gets calculated as part of your total resistance bonus* to give us the percentage we see in game - does APB simply subtract from the target's resistance bonus total, or does it actual reduce the target's resistance by a straight percentage?
*Resistance = 1 (1 / (1 + Total Resist Bonus)