Projectile Weapon Officer: Functioning correctly?

System

I've just slotted a third, very rare, PWO on my main (Tac in Escort).

Contrary to what I expected, I feel like I'm seeing less procs and less torpedos as opposed to more.

I don't know if I'm seeing this due to simple, repeated, severely bad luck - but it seems to have changed in the last week and also seems to be affecting my other characters.

FWIW I'm using 3 copies of Ten of Ten in my active roster.

Previously I could usually count on firing at least 1 or 2 single Torpedos in between uses of Torp Spread (I chain two copies of TS 2), but now I find I'm waiting the full 8s very frequently.

Archived Post

The procs are calculated independently, so there's no way adding one could be worse.

Because of global cooldowns, in some situations it may run against a wall; for instances like this, as they have been identified I have been going back in and adjusting these powers so that there is always a benefit to slotting an additional or higher quality duty officer of the same type.

There have also been a couple of bugs in the past where a higher quality duty officer had the wrong values.

That being said, adding an entirely new one can't make it worse in any way I can conceive of, at least.

I checked that specific duty officer, btw, and it looks accurate, as does the quality progression for that active power.

Archived Post

Heretic wrote:

The procs are calculated independently, so there's no way adding one could be worse.

Because of global cooldowns, in some situations it may run against a wall; for instances like this, as they have been identified I have been going back in and adjusting these powers so that there is always a benefit to slotting an additional or higher quality duty officer of the same type.

There have also been a couple of bugs in the past where a higher quality duty officer had the wrong values.

That being said, adding an entirely new one can't make it worse in any way I can conceive of, at least.

I checked that specific duty officer, btw, and it looks accurate, as does the quality progression for that active power.

Thank you for looking into it and for the response.

Archived Post

I actually did the tests on these, results below.

Dont use 3 PWD, its not worth it, I did the tests earlier in the week, (copyied out of my other thread)

A Few figues, I will update this post as I get more,

2 Photon Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 111 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***111 / 300***
3 Photon Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 147 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***147 / 300***
2 Photon Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 126 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***126 / 300***
3 Photon Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 148 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***148 / 300***

2 Quantum Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 104 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***104 / 300***
3 Qunatum Launchers - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 131 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***131 / 300***
2 Quantum Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 111 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***111 / 300***
3 Quantum Launchers - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 137 Torpedos in 300 seconds ***137 / 300***

3 Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedos - 1 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 140 Torpedos in 300 Seconds ***140/300***
3 Rapid Reload Transphasic Torpedos - 2 Blue, 1 Purple Doff - 147 Torpedos in 300 Seconds ***147/300***

Tests were done in a 1v1 PvP situation, torps were set to autofire, no THY or TS used, parser counted the shots and the time elapsed.

Archived Post

I appreciate the testing, but your testing did not cover a ship using only 1 launcher, nor using 2-3 Purple PWOs.

The reason this is important, is as you have multiple launchers you are creating more chances for the PWO to proc.

A single launcher only has its own cast, or torpedo boff skills to proc off of. So there is a good chance that slotting more than one will provide value, where as on a 3 Torpedo Launcher build it would not.


Also, it's less about being worth it on a torpedos per minute scale, and more to do with feeling a drop off in torpedos fired.



Others have reported the same issue, http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=4171223#post4171223

Archived Post

i use two of the very rare torp doffs on an all torp build and its hilarious, I love it!

Archived Post

I'd like to know how the bonuses for Projectile Weaps. Officers stack. The possible ways to stack:

1. Additive/Proc - The percent for the ability to trigger stacks, so that two with +50% should (theoretically) result in a 100% chance to trigger.
2. Multiplicative/Proc - This would be like how consoles work. Two +50% doffs would result in (+50% X +50%) 75% chance to proc.
3. Additive/Buff - Chance to proc is rolled either separately for each doff or combined. If they both trigger, the benefits would stack, reducing the cooldown by 3+3 seconds (or whatever amount), or a combined 6 seconds.

I have two purple doffs, and I can guarantee that I don't have a 100% chance to reduce my cooldown. My thinking is that its #3, but I'll need more extensive testing to prove that. Of course, it might be a combination of 2 & 3, but it is most definitely not #1. Since I'm only running 1 torpedo launcher on each facing, I might not be gettting the full benefit, especially if the proc reduces the cooldown on all launchers.

Archived Post

captainstewart wrote: »

I'd like to know how the bonuses for Projectile Weaps. Officers stack. The possible ways to stack:

1. Additive/Proc - The percent for the ability to trigger stacks, so that two with +50% should (theoretically) result in a 100% chance to trigger.
2. Multiplicative/Proc - This would be like how consoles work. Two +50% doffs would result in (+50% X +50%) 75% chance to proc.
3. Additive/Buff - Chance to proc is rolled either separately for each doff or combined. If they both trigger, the benefits would stack, reducing the cooldown by 3+3 seconds (or whatever amount), or a combined 6 seconds.

I have two purple doffs, and I can guarantee that I don't have a 100% chance to reduce my cooldown. My thinking is that its #3, but I'll need more extensive testing to prove that. Of course, it might be a combination of 2 & 3, but it is most definitely not #1. Since I'm only running 1 torpedo launcher on each facing, I might not be gettting the full benefit, especially if the proc reduces the cooldown on all launchers.

I think it's #3, but we would need Heretic to confirm.

Archived Post

From what I've read, the chances are independently "rolled".

So with two 20% chances, you'd have an overall 36% chance of getting the benefit.

(as we should all know, to figure out the chance of something happening like that, you need to subtract the chance of it not happening: in this case 80% failure AND 80% failure give you overall a 64% chance of not getting a proc, so a 36% of getting one)

To add on, I don't believe the buffs would stack. You'd just have the higher chance of getting a single reduction, not having a slimmer chance of getting a double reduction.

Archived Post

USS_Ultimatum wrote:

I appreciate the testing, but your testing did not cover a ship using only 1 launcher, nor using 2-3 Purple PWOs.

The reason this is important, is as you have multiple launchers you are creating more chances for the PWO to proc.

A single launcher only has its own cast, or torpedo boff skills to proc off of. So there is a good chance that slotting more than one will provide value, where as on a 3 Torpedo Launcher build it would not.


Also, it's less about being worth it on a torpedos per minute scale, and more to do with feeling a drop off in torpedos fired.



Others have reported the same issue, http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=4171223#post4171223

You don't need to run these tests wth 1 Launcher, all you have to do is work out the maximum number ot torpedos you can launch with 0 doffs, and basically just up that value by the % the doff is. I knows its not quite that simple (it is with Photons and Purple PWO however)

Torpedo skills have 0 effect as the launcher only actually fires once not multiple times per torpedo in the salvo.

2/3 Purple weapons doffs makes next to 0 difference, the max amount of photons you can fire in 300 seconds is 150 as the global is 2seconds. Yes a 2nd Purple PWO will very slighly increase this, but 148/300 is within the margin of error.

Only my using higher quality officers and multiple Quantun launchers would you see a net gain over the 3 photon launchers with 2 PWO. Essentially from a DPS perspective, 3Photons and 2Blue or better PWD is realistically the best your going to get for DPS

alhucemas

Archived Post wrote: »

To add on, I don't believe the buffs would stack. You'd just have the higher chance of getting a single reduction, not having a slimmer chance of getting a double reduction.

Buffs stack. Tested myself.

Archived Post wrote: »

I appreciate the testing, but your testing did not cover a ship using only 1 launcher, nor using 2-3 Purple PWOs.

The reason this is important, is as you have multiple launchers you are creating more chances for the PWO to proc.

A single launcher only has its own cast, or torpedo boff skills to proc off of. So there is a good chance that slotting more than one will provide value, where as on a 3 Torpedo Launcher build it would not.

Exactly.

Archived Post wrote: »

You don't need to run these tests wth 1 Launcher, all you have to do is work out the maximum number ot torpedos you can launch with 0 doffs, and basically just up that value by the % the doff is. I knows its not quite that simple (it is with Photons and Purple PWO however)

Torpedo skills have 0 effect as the launcher only actually fires once not multiple times per torpedo in the salvo.

2/3 Purple weapons doffs makes next to 0 difference, the max amount of photons you can fire in 300 seconds is 150 as the global is 2seconds. Yes a 2nd Purple PWO will very slighly increase this, but 148/300 is within the margin of error.

Only my using higher quality officers and multiple Quantun launchers would you see a net gain over the 3 photon launchers with 2 PWO. Essentially from a DPS perspective, 3Photons and 2Blue or better PWD is realistically the best your going to get for DPS

Good point but I must dissagree. If you want to get the best performance of each weapon, you?ll only want 1 or 2 torps, because with each extra torp you lose 2 secs of reload.
1 torp--> 2 secs of minimum reload.
2 torps--> 4 secs of minimum reload for each torp.
3 torps--> 6 secs of minimum reload for each torp.

So if you use 3 photon torps, as you state, the better you'll get is to reduce your reload time from 6,5 secs (its base reload time) to 6 secs (an 8% increase in DPS in the best case scenario) in exchange for 3 doffs slots (not a big big deal). So from a DPS perspective you are losing a good weapon slot that could be used for a better purpose.

Warning, RED ALERT: MATHS IN SIGHT. Skip this part if you are smart.

About the projectile weapons dutty officers, knowing that each doff has 20% chance to proc with each torp...
2 doffs+ 1 Torp: 36% chance to proc each shot (20% of the first duty officer + 16% of the second).
3 doffs + 1 Torp: 48,8% chance to proc (20%+16%+12,8%)
2 doffs + 2 Torp: 59,04% chance to proc (36% of 1 torp + 23,04% of the second torp)
3 doffs + 2 Torp: 73,78% chance to proc.

So yes, duty officers make a difference.

And you also get the chance to proc 2 times on one torp, because the procs stack, but this only would actually take effect when using only one quantum torpedo: If you have a proc with a blue doff on a quantum your reload goes from 8,5 secs to 4,5 secs. But if you get a second proc on the torp your reload will be 2 secs (the minimum).

If you use a photon you wont notice the difference because one proc already lowers the reload to 2 seconds with a purple doff and to 2,5 with a blue one (so a second proc wont do much), and if you use 2 torps your minimum reload will be 4 secods for each torp (so you wont notice much when having 2 procs with quantum and nothing with photon).

So when using 3 doffs+1 quantum torp you get:
12% chance of having 2 procs (reduce reload time to 2 secs)
36,8% of having a single proc (reduce relad time to 4,5 secs with blue doff, 3,5 secs with purple)
51,2% of no procs (reload time 8,5 secs).

According to my calculations (wich you may believe or not, I don?t want to make this post any longer than it already is explaining it) and tests:

Average reload time (in seconds) for each torp depending on projectile duty officers


Num Torps.....Type......2 blue doffs.....2 purp.....3 blue.....3 purp.....4 blue.....4 purple
1...............Quantum..........7,83............7,49..........6,24........5,87.......5,54.......5,19
1...............Photon.............5,69............5,53..........4,48........4,29.......4,02.......3,8
2...............Quantum..........6,04............5,84..........5,34........5,18.......4,86.......4,75
2...............Photon.............5,02............5,02..........4,65........4,65.......4,42.......4,42

blue numbers guive better DPS for quantum than photon in that range.

Photon torpedoes are clearly better than quantum for DPS when only one torp is used. But when 2 torps are used, photon torpedoes underperform with 3 or more doffs, while quantum get faster. Photon still have a better reloading time than quantum but not that much.
When using 3 purple doffs and 2 torps, photon will fire 11% faster, but quantum will do 11% more damage. That means same DPS, but with better burst damage for quantum. And if you add tactical consoles for your torpedoes, then the quantum will gain more DPS than the photon torps (because the base damage of quantum is higher).


Disclaimer: I do not take any responsability for the accuracy of my maths, nor for the deaths of those captains who followed my advice. If you believe my arguments, do it at your own risk.

darthvicious666

Maybe someone with a bit of ambition (and a parser) could figure out how PWOs work with the Omega torp?