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How To Make A BOP Stronger?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Everybody rips through my Ardmiral BOP like paper. I was once facing a Starfleet with 20% hull in PVP and I had the advantage.
Because of this, I have lost many PVPs for my team, and when we do win, I am the one with the least damage done. My Starfleet VA doesn't have this problem, and I am close to just forgetting about my Klingy.
So, as the title states, HOW THE HECK TO I MAKE THE THING FIGHT DECENTLY?!
I have the same category weapons (Polaron), and my skills are correctly distributed.
EDIT: Sorry, I accidentally said VA BOP. I have the simple admiral BOP.
10 Seconds Later..
Defeated!
Re-spawn In 10 Seconds
Defeated!
Re-spawn In 10 Seconds
Because of this, I have lost many PVPs for my team, and when we do win, I am the one with the least damage done. My Starfleet VA doesn't have this problem, and I am close to just forgetting about my Klingy.
So, as the title states, HOW THE HECK TO I MAKE THE THING FIGHT DECENTLY?!
I have the same category weapons (Polaron), and my skills are correctly distributed.
EDIT: Sorry, I accidentally said VA BOP. I have the simple admiral BOP.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Sure there are builds ... builds based on having to buy other ships, sorry I am not willing to cough up 800 Cryptic Points just to make it half valid and it will STILL not hold up for anything else besides PvP.
In this game HULL matters, and nothing on this B'rel Retrofit make it worth the loss of 3,000 hull points ... not its extra turn rate (especially since you get more inertia) and its certainly not that "enhanced" Battle Cloak.
Train him/her in the appropriate abilities.
Have a good weapon setup and get the Borg set all 4 items of them equipped on your B'rel.
My setup for the B'rel refit: Forward: 3 Mk XI Dual heavy disruptor cannon(2 uncommon, 1 rare), 1 Breen cluster torpedo(transphasic). Aft: Transphasic mine and Mk XI disruptor turret.
Now choose your target wisely that is don't attack unless you have a good position and chance to escape.
Once decloak fire everything and use the necessary offensive abilities(including tractor beam if necessary). This will likely destroy your human target in a single pass, launch the mines in the face distance, get away, evasive maneuver and cloak back
. Btw the aft turret is for shooting incoming destructible projectile not for offensive attack of course.
If your target has an underwhelming firepower keep your position so that you can keep firing and just wait for him to go KABOOM. Birds of Prey don't shoot to wound unlike cruisers, Birds of Prey [given choice] will always shoot to kill. Unexpected, ferocious, rapid, overwhelming, fast and elusive.
With this you can pop all but the most powerful captains in a single pass while dealing heavy damage (more than 40% hull damage) to the most powerful captains/ships. Not bad for a Birds of prey
The strength of the BoP is that it can dictate the terms of engagement. Use this to your advantage. You DICTATE the engagement. Don't tank it out with opponent cruiser. Make surprise attack from superior position: fast, ferocious and deadly then disengage before the target could counter back in force. They will go KABOOM. Don't forget to compliment or salute the opponent because you just wanted to have fun not caused him any injury
Yardstick
If you can deal more than 200k of damage in a PvP victory with your BoP consider it a good build. If less than 200K you should try better setup. And if u see strong captain/ship fleeing on your attack, you can bet they were feeling the heat. Yes they could choose to run even when snared with the tractor beam(by using anti tractor beam abilities) and to be honest a good captain will not and should not take that dangerous attack pass of a properly fitted Birds of Prey. Fleeing [temporarily] is the best course of action, denying the Birds of prey the opportunity to make the kill.
Ships like the BoPs and Escorts are SUPPOSED to get healed by teammates, and its almost curious how you can be in an STF with 3-4 "SO awsome" odysees without getting even ONE hazard emitter or eng team. (And they are probably proud of themselfes for not dying as much as you do^^)
Lot of engine power to boost the defense is always great and helps a lot.
Watch what kind of impulse engine you use depending on you power levels. You can find out wich works best for your power setting by, for example, using a white impulse engine of each kind (combat, hyper and "standard") and compare with wich one you have the best defense stats before purchasing an expensive one. (If combat use the Borg or KDF honor guard engine, if hyper use the Ageis or Omega.)
If you have High AUX power (wich is what you should have if you use many sci abilitys) using AUX to dampers and Polarize hull helps.
Emergency power to shields and Transfer shield strength as well as the Tac team should be in every build. Sci team has the nasty habit of a shard CD with tac team, but none with Tranfer Shield strenth, might help a little too if you have space for it.
Also you should look out what you do in groups. Avoid pulling aggro as good as you can. Don't go solo for ships, look out what your team attacks and attack that targerts. Escorts in theory should still do more damage and pull more aggro for that matter. Practicly... well... pitiyfully it otften doesnt turn out this way.
Alone; obviously, its hit and run, make use of evasive manuevers and the battle cloak if your damage buffs run out before your targert is down.
Personally, I've had the best luck with the B'rel using it as a weaker, sneakier Hegh'ta, you'll take damage faster, so should battle cloak sooner, but the B'rel can heal itself while cloaked. This is one of the few uses of the EBC that doen't leave you vulnerable. Also, you can begin some parts of your alpha prior to dropping the cloak, lessening enemy reaction time. If you open with a PSW for example, you can pop that, then decloak while they're stunned and unload your barage. Also, as dropping mines doesn't put you into red alert as far as I recall (I could be wrong), you can lay a big minefield as a trap while cloaked, even hot-swapping different mines as you need them, say tricobalt, tractor mines, chroniton mines etc, then putting turrets back in for an alpha.
Generally though, with making any BoP tough, at least as far as any can be made to be, I find using both lieutenants for engineers, the lieutenant commander for sci, and the comander for tactical gives it plenty of bite, but enough healing and dirty tricks to survive long enough to do what you were going to, then escape again. BoPs are guerillas, not brawlers, and need to be flown as such.
Like any BOP choose your target wisely don't solo a Fedball, strike after combat has been engaged.
And yes to all Suicide runner BOP pilots who give the Feds free kills try another ship. Not that they are the people who "read" forums to try and improve.
Suicide Runners are the guys who decloak before the group get there and just die constantly when your trying to organise a strategy or choosing a target for the group.
TT1, CRF1, BO3, APO3
TT1, APD1, THY3
This provides a good offense with good defense. Remember that some of the best tactical attack buffs are also very strong defensive buffs. This is why you choose the Delta pattern over the Beta.
Engineer will take EPTS 1 and 2. Very good shield resistance and heal.
Science you may feel like you need the science team to clear AMS. Generally I just bug out if AMS happens. Mostly because if the entire PUG doesn't cleanse themselves, your own team will kill you. I carry Hazard Emitters for heal and resistance, and Polarize for mobility and resistance.
Engineering consoles will give you hull resistance. You can likely buy 3 common neutronium mk XI consoles. This will give you about 35% resistance across the board. Possibly a bit more. You could use a turn rate or a flow rate console as your third instead. But you're already in the best turning ship there is. The flow console could boost the EPTS but they will do what you need them to as it is. So for now stick with the resistances.
Science consoles are a bit wonky just now. Get the +35% to shields. That is a need. Follow that up with one inertial dampener and the Borg universal console from the set. (You'll also need the rest of the Borg set with the possible exception of the shield)
Tactical take 2x[energy type] and 1x[torpedo type]
If you run the Borg retro set you will get good bonuses to power levels and some nice set bonus as well. You may wish to buy a very rare MK XI covariant [cap]x3 instead of using the borg shield. You may find the higher value worth it. You will need to run STF's to get the EDC for the Borg set, but you should keep in mind that you will want the KHG shield and engine as soon as possible. 2 piece Borg and 2 piece KHG is very strong.
Your weapons need to hit. Buying a complete set of [acc]x3 weapons on the exchange can be very expensive if they are even available. But [acc] x2 are almost always available for much less and also you can find very rare [acc]x2 [crtd] or [dam] or some other desirable modifier for much less. Purchase a full set of at least [acc]x2 weapons of the following types.
Two Dual Heavy Cannon, one Dual Beam Bank, one Quantum Torpedo and two turrets.
Choose your target. Choose your exit route and cover to break LOS. Buff up, decloak, mark your target and unload your torpedoes. Count down and fire your beam overload. Pop one of two batteries. Weapon to finish of your target with CRF and then just evasive out. Or pop engine battery with evasive to get out even further if your target is dead or if it shows no immediate signs of becoming dead. Either case is cause for you to leave.
You have 20 seconds out of cloak. EPTS should be running the entire time. Be ready with polarize hull or emitters combined with brace for impact if you need to cloak under fire. Emitters is great to pop before you cloak as it will continue healing if you've taken damage. When your 20 seconds is up you cloak.
Very important tip. Learn to recognize what buffs your targets have. Firing on an escort that is under evasive, omega, and epts is just as much as a waste of time as firing on a cruiser with RTS3 and RSP could be. If you're not sure at first what the little icons are look them up. In the meantime pick targets with no little icons. The best time is right AFTER all their little icons drop off. Usually this means they are out of buffs for a short time. These are good targets.
Happy flying.
its cookie-cutter and not for the BoP directly but you can adapt it with some pratice and even use other designs besides the double ApO concept to increase your effectivness.
Sorry but even in my worst nightmare I'd never run that build.
If I want a Tac Cmdr + Tac LtCmdr, I'd run an escort and would not sacrifise weapons, tac consoles and lots of hull and a BO ability on a Battlecloak.
And even for an escort I'd really really dislike that build^^
I have no idea where you get that idea from. Hope your nightmares are better than your waking life.
Cheers!
1. Doffs use 2-3 Shield Distribution Officers w/2 green or better hazard Doffs. The goal is to have a probability of the Shield Dist Doff ~100% of the time and the +15% x 2 resists every time you use BFI. At max Aux you should see ~1k shield regen/sec per facing from each shield dist. doff that triggers and ~ 3k/siding instant heal. It's basically like getting a free high level TSS and mini PH (resistance boost that is)every time you use BFI. See link below mutually exclusive section on probability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probability
2. Use Warp Core engineer for + power levels to all systems on trigger. This increases your damage and survivability, don't under estimate this.
Try using Omega shields/Deflector w/Aegis Engines. The Engines will give you +5% defense, the shields will give you a speed & turn rate proc, the deflector gives you a targeting boost. The tet glider is going to be nerfed, but it'll still give free damage.
All Energy weapons should have no less then 1 Accuracy proc. Phasers are OP imo, but still no reason not to keep a set in your inventory should a need arise. Using CRF w/Phasers you'll notice a high level of shield facing drops, you can use this w/a BO or Torp HY for high spike alpha.
If you want to last longer, but still have a decent alpha try commander TAC slot w/Tac team 1, HYT2, CRF2, CRF3. Lt. Commander slot epts1, epts2, aux2sif2. Lt sci TB1, HE2, and LT sci PH1, Sci Team 2. This gives you some Tackle, High DPS, 3x shield heals, 2x hull heals, 1 hull resist/anti tractor ability. You still have BFI up your sleave as well. The Aux2sif will provide spike hull heal/resist, while the HE2 can provide resist and ~1k/sec HoT for 15 sec.
Later if you want you can drop the Aux2sif for EWP for an additional slow/tackle or add DEM. Though you'll then only have 1 hull heal every 45 sec, so you'll need to practice positioning to avoid dps, and apply it.
Also, when facing a FaW team don't decloak in the firing range of multiple enemy vessels. You'll likely lose 20-50% of your hull in the time it takes the shields to raise from the decloak.
While I don't agree with how he said it, I do agree that with that layout, you're not doing anything a Raptor can't do better. It doesn't make the most of the BoP's versatility. The BoP offers you the chance to run decent offensive science or even engineering powers in combination with high level tactical powers. Like PSW, or DEM2, or eject warp plasma etc. I tried running it like an escort for a long time, and it was when I started trying things you can'd do with an escort that the BoP started working.
but u have to fly a BoP hit and run with as many torps as u can follow ur team mates and fire once they weakend them.
As a Cruiser captain, my goal is to keep the Cube looking at me, since I can take (most of) what it dishes out for at least a short period of time, hoping that the Escorts take advantage of the distraction and crush my target. If you're pulling more aggro than the Cruiser, your Cruiser pal isn't doing his job unless he's doing all sorts of other tricks with his Science boffs. If you're in a BoP, you should be ready to Battle Cloak at an instant if you get more aggro, since the enemy will generally break you in half if it looks at you angrily unless you carry a lot of defensive consoles and boffs.
As a Sovreign I can quite easily tank an Elite Cube, the trick is to fly 5k above it out of torpedo arc and run your cooldowns. You can hit Evasive manuvers and run away with out losing Agro if you need to heal up and refresh cooldowns. If I ever had a Healer I don't think I'd need to run away. But you usually get Mocked for trying to form a Tank, Healer, DPS, DPS, DPS group for STFs. And in a PuG you'll never get a healer, and rarely a competant Tank. Unless you get the group where everyone is a Tank.
I'd argue battle cloak every 20s in STF's, Remember you don't need to disengage and you lose threat. Oh yeah and you get a DPS boost for cloaking.
This isn't about B'rel Retrofits and its not about STF's.
If you want to use some science abilities to help the OP achieve his two goals you go ahead and you post a nice equipment and bridge layout that will do that. I posted a tactical solution. It works. How you can equate a high burst/survivability with battlecloak solution to something that escorts do better I'm just not sure. You decloak, kill a target, and cloak. What more do you want? Where's the better? Will I DEM2 down the entire team after snaring them in my warp plasma? I mean you can mix in those abilities, but why would you? What are you going to give up from tactical? And exactly how is that going to work?
Sorry you couldn't make tactical work out. The solution I gave will satisfy both of the OP's questions. I specifically stated it was a TACTICAL solution at the start of my post. It is simple implement and has the benefits he requested.
Post your own solution using your bridge and equipment and tactics for the OP if you want to be helpful and have the desire to show a build showing a science or engineering slant.
Cheers and ty for reading
Not to minimize the contribution others had on this post, but this one posted by lamid is in my opinion one of the best advices that OP could get.
Well, I'll post my Hegh'ta build, but regarding which BoP the OP was asking about, that wasn't initially made clear.
I run it with 3xDHC, 1 tricobalt up front, and 1 turret and 1 quantum at the back, although I swap the torpedos and aft weapons about quite a bit as the situation dictates.
I run Tactical Commander, Science Liuetenant Commander, and Engineering lieutenants.
Tac Cmdr: TT1, HYT2, APO1, CRF3
Sci Lt Cmdr: TSS1 or ST1, HE2, PSW1
Lt Eng: Epts1, RSP1
Lt Eng: Epts1, Aux2sif OR DEM1
This is setup works fine for me. In addition to the normal alpha strike preperations, I brace for impact and roll the first epts1, hit them with photonic shockwave, cut through a shield facing, and land a tricobalt in there. Using regular torpedos it's easier (no potential for splash back for onething), but not as hard punching, with the tricobalt it can lead to a "one shot kill" quite often. But the PSW is also a very quick means of taking out any incoming heavy torpedo, boarding party or mines headed your way, as well as throwing a bit of kinetic damage in all directions, and works well when timed with a subnuc to crack a tank open if you're flying as or with a science captain.
The reason I suggest using non-tactical for the lieutenant commander is because aside from battle cloaking, what you've essentially got with the tactical commander/lieutenant commander is a Raptor with battle cloak and greater agility, but a lot less firepower and one less boff power. By putting another profession in there you can use an offensive science or engineering power without compromising your means of keeping your ship in one piece. I'd never consider using DEM or Tractor beam on a Raptor, and you can't use EWP or PSW, but the BoP gives you those options.
I'm not saying your build won't work, but in my own experience, the Raptor worked better for that sort of straight up tactical layout. Also with tactical initiative, I find having just the commander for tactical powers is plenty a lot of the time, and if I find I'm wanting to have another CRF or TT, I can just swap a tactical into one of the engineering lieutenants spots. I found the BoP far more fun and effective when I stopped trying to drive it like a regular escort, and it's real strength lies in it's ability to combine high tier boff powers from more than one profession. Please don't take my disagreement with your view on the BoP as a personal attack of some sort, it's just a difference of opinion.
Commander: TT1, TT2, CRF2, CRF3
LtC: EPtE1, EPtW2, EPtS3
Lt. HE1, TSS2
Lt: HE1, TSS2
Put your weapons and engines at 75, and don't slow down. Yes, you will be making passes on your target, but as people begin to target you, you have a lot of maneuverability. These defenses will hold up well, and when you get in trouble, use EM and you will rocket out of there (due to your high engine power).
I like high speed as it helps in many situations. You are harder to tractor, you can normally get out of Gravety Wells with little difficulty, when they hit you with Tykon's Rift, you are normally out of the range before it takes effect, etc.
Along with that, you have an equivalent of 5 shield skills,and 2 hull heals. With the 3 EPtX skills, it helps on disables (target system attacks), and yet you can still do damage with your cannons. For loadouts I would go with 4DHC, and 2 Turrents (I prefer phasers or polarons due to disabling ability - which helps with your defense). I also use shield and eingine batteries for emergencies when my engines or shields go offline.
I am an engineer, so with that setup, I'm not easy to take down 1v1 - unless I get critted by a BO.
Thats some pretty good advice... My build is very simular and it works great
You only need to survive for 20 seconds. So any line of thinking that involves "Oh I need to keep many heals on hand to live" is [EDIT: non battle cloak] type thinking. The two LT eng and sci give more than enough over the twenty second duration. Remember that your attack patterns will be huge defensive buffs. You open with Omega 3 and if you are still exposed when Delta comes up you use Delta. Delta gives you resistance buffs if you are being fired on, and it debuffs your attacker. So the tactical build will give at least an equal number of defenses up at any time and equal or greater number of offensive buffs and debuffs.
So if you decide to hang out exposed you still have 3 to 4 defensive abilities that you could be running at any given time while still having the great damaging abilities. But you're not likely to do that unless its hugely advantageous for you. Because in no way shape or form are you flying an escort. You have battle cloak. Sure I suppose 5 seconds of plus 15% damage sounds teeny. Or maybe moving around to gain an advantage in position on your opponent doesn't seem like a big deal. Regaining the initiative may just not shine for some people. But I promise you that the ability to dump huge gobs of damage every 30 seconds or so where ever you want to is key.
And that is what I've been advocating. Not flying like an escort. Sure those may be abilities commonly found on escorts but the manner in which a BOP gets to apply and then reapply them at will is what sets it apart.
Again TY for posting your build. I did run DEM 1 for a week or so to try it out. The idea was to run it as a second attack buff with CRF. Although I'm sure it had some value most of my opponents were already dead or as good as dead. Or they were fit as fiddles and it was time to run. Front loading DEM with CRF in the initial strike didn't seem to make to much of a difference in the outcomes. So I'm moving to an Aux to structural with an epts2 to mesh with the polarize hull and hazards. If you care you may want to swap APO3 and CRF2 into your build. You will get better damage overall that way. Remember that Omega will be buffing damage for longer than the duration of CRF and it buffs all your attacks so that will be nice. Also you only have one tractor immunity so you may want to put in a polarize hull. Its hard to heal thru hull critical hits and if you get a good tractor on you that is what you'll be seeing.
Cheers and happy flying!
I may check out swapping omega and CRF around, I'm also going to consider dropping one of the engineers for a science boff to get polarize hull and tractor beam in there.
Even my bortas tank was easier to kill because i couldn't escape angry escorts.
Try using APO III, evasive maneuvers and the impulse burst console (you can pick it up at the exchange). Then cloak (you can buff yourself while cloaking and you have +50% def and a little more speed and turnrate).
Set your power ratings to 100 for weapons and 50 for engines.