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Forums > Home› Feedback› Klingon Discussion

Melee: Anyone else feel...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2012 in Klingon Discussion
...like you die too quickly?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I just started a KDF toon. My setup is a Gorn Tac officer with guns, Klingon Medic with guns, Klingon Shield Engineer with guns, a Klingon Tac with a Bat'leth and myself with a Bat'leth.

First ground mission I did tonight (Hirogen), I died twice. I have NEVER, and I repeat, NEVER, died on my Starfleet officer in ground mode. But first time out in melee combat on KDF side, and I croak twice?

Is melee just that bad in this game, or am I missing something?

And yes, I have allocated all my skill points, my officer's skill points and I have decent gear on.

:confused:
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I don't know if it was ever considered that melee would be as good as ranged in the game. I think if it was, I'd be wondering why from the other perspective. Think about it. You have a gun, and someone's running at you with a sword...It's gonna a bit of a one-sided fight :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    1st PvE speaking pre season four it was quite easy to melee w/the right builds (eg stacking sci doffs buffing you w/dy. hypospray and shield bypass damage). The thought behind this is most of the ranged weapons were energy by nature and the shields and some armor were designed to absorb the damage. Only certain armor and the already mentioned hypospray was designed to stop melee/kinetic damage. If you think about the 1st Borg encounters and their adapting shields to energy weapons it makes sense. Physically pulling the plug on them so to speak was the most useful counter. Now think of everyone having energy shields and most range weapons being energy based.

    Post season 4 the sci skill got nerfed w/a longer cooldown and lost it's physical damage resistance. Also, many stuns/hold are fragile that weren't before. The sword combo lost it's leaping strike which made it easier to flank with. Last shields absorb 50% melee damage when they didn't before.

    Still, if you want to max melee damage PvE on your captain get all Sci Boffs w/Dy. hypospray (use versions 2&3 they stack) and prebuff your Tac Captain. Give them Phasers for the stun proc so NPCs are less likely to quickly run from you. Fill out the rest of their skills w/heals & roots. While it's not the highest DPS damage the Sword can strike to a target even if you're rooted, and generally looks cool. For even added flavor get all Orions w/seduce and use pistols so they're in range to trigger that trait.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I think it's about balanced to be honest. Think of the damage you do hacking at somebody with a sword, then thick of how much you'd do with a .44 Magnum or an AK47. That said, on some toons I do carry a melee weapon as my second form of attack, Klingon and Nausicaan since they're suited to it, but I also use sweeping strikes a lot on my Andorian when people get all in my face. Also, if melee damage were buffed too far, it'd be easy to just bypass somebody's shields and wail on them with a lirpa or batleth until they were dead. It's the equivilent of having a weapon that bypasses shields in space. I imagine if it were stronger it wouldn't take long before ground PVP turned into Braveheart.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    aashenfox wrote:
    I don't know if it was ever considered that melee would be as good as ranged in the game. I think if it was, I'd be wondering why from the other perspective. Think about it. You have a gun, and someone's running at you with a sword...It's gonna a bit of a one-sided fight :)

    It also makes you wonder why our STF ground set was completely tailored around melee combat, under these circumstances.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    My advice is to never give your bridge officers a melee weapon and to only use yours when the enemy closes in on you or at least to fire at the enemy as you close in on them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    i find melee neat in this game but yes, i don't know why it is even considered an option when people are shooting at you and lobbing grenades and turrets are firing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Deleted...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sakarak wrote:
    My advice is to never give your bridge officers a melee weapon and to only use yours when the enemy closes in on you or at least to fire at the enemy as you close in on them.

    WHAT?

    And deny my officers the glory of battle?

    Ha! You sniveling Ferengi!

    ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ebeneezergoode wrote:
    I think it's about balanced to be honest. Think of the damage you do hacking at somebody with a sword, then thick of how much you'd do with a .44 Magnum or an AK47. That said, on some toons I do carry a melee weapon as my second form of attack, Klingon and Nausicaan since they're suited to it, but I also use sweeping strikes a lot on my Andorian when people get all in my face. Also, if melee damage were buffed too far, it'd be easy to just bypass somebody's shields and wail on them with a lirpa or batleth until they were dead. It's the equivilent of having a weapon that bypasses shields in space. I imagine if it were stronger it wouldn't take long before ground PVP turned into Braveheart.

    Your 1st analogy isn't really apples to apples. If there were ranged kinetic gun options in game it would be. But there really aren't many. Remember how effective Picard was w/a Tommy Gun compared to energy weapons vs the Borg? Or Data physically dismembering Borg?

    I'd rather people have various degrees of kinetic/energy defenses for shields like armors have and limit the effectiveness of hybrid defenses, instead of a base physical damage absorbtion. In general I think energy shields should be more effective vs energy attacks, and physical armor should be more effective against physical attacks.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Iamid wrote:
    Your 1st analogy isn't really apples to apples. If there were ranged kinetic gun options in game it would be. But there really aren't many. Remember how effective Picard was w/a Tommy Gun compared to energy weapons vs the Borg? Or Data physically dismembering Borg?

    I'd rather people have various degrees of kinetic/energy defenses for shields like armors have and limit the effectiveness of hybrid defenses, instead of a base physical damage absorbtion. In general I think energy shields should be more effective vs energy attacks, and physical armor should be more effective against physical attacks.

    I see what you're getting at, but when the borg haven't adapted yet, a phaser does it in one shot, not emptying a clip of ammunition that has a relatively limited supply. But phaser's tend not to one-hit anything in this game, there are hitpoint pools and shields etc. I still feel the damage a phaser would do and a melee weapon would do are about in proportion to eachother. And bear in mind that most beings lack Data's physical strength.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Ebeneezergoode wrote:
    I think it's about balanced to be honest. Think of the damage you do hacking at somebody with a sword, then thick of how much you'd do with a .44 Magnum or an AK47. That said, on some toons I do carry a melee weapon as my second form of attack, Klingon and Nausicaan since they're suited to it, but I also use sweeping strikes a lot on my Andorian when people get all in my face. Also, if melee damage were buffed too far, it'd be easy to just bypass somebody's shields and wail on them with a lirpa or batleth until they were dead. It's the equivilent of having a weapon that bypasses shields in space. I imagine if it were stronger it wouldn't take long before ground PVP turned into Braveheart.[/QUOTE

    Actually a sword can kill you just as quick as a gun, the difference between the 2 has more to do with range than effectiveness. The person with the gun will be able to shoot the person with the sword before the sword weilder can come into range to use their weapon. That is the advantage to using a firearm. Some of the heavier bladed weapons could cleave a man in half. Studies done on the longsword (an average sized bladed weapon) using corpses and life like dummies with bones and flesh density of a human showed an average strength person could cleave through a persons collar bone down into the heart and lungs leaving a gruesome wound. So the damage that a sword and firearm can cause is about even. So there is an imbalance in melee vs firearms as far as damage in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Before they did the ground combat revamp, as some one stated earlier, melee was more viable in combat in general. It had 100% shield penetration as well as the guns weren't as quick on the damage. Early on I made my main fed as a melee character and he was a beast. Now, I'm still able to kick some Borg behind on elite, but it's no where near as good as it used to be. But again, as stated earlier, the Borg were impervious once the shield adapted, that is until you went melee in which case worf was able to literally disarm a drone with one swing from his mek'leth.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I think the viability of melee attacks should really depend on who you're up against. Sure, a main character with plot armor a foot thick can mix it up with a physically-superior Klingon or Jem'Hadar redshirt in a pinch, but let's be honest, some gaps are insurmountable. Anyone who's not Worf or the superhumanly-strong Data is in deep trouble if a Borg gets within arm's reach, and even those two were playing with fire, as demonstrated by Data eventually getting captured and Worf nearly dying against a single drone.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Sadly, dedicated melee weapons are terrible and should be avoided at all costs, even against the borg. Ranged weapon melee is useful in a pinch, but shouldn't be relied on.

    The only exception is Armek, who needs to be meleed by at least one character to prevent him from shooting.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    My advice to you is this..

    Use ORIONS.

    Bring two Orion Males and give them the Melee weapons.

    Bring two Orion Females and give them Pulse Wave weapons.

    Make sure TWO of the FOUR are Engineers with Quantum Mortars.


    What does all this do?


    Well the Orion Males have an innate boost to Melee, which is why you use them. (can use whatever though)
    The Orion Females will stay in close to the Melee Orions and do a lot of AoE weapon dmg AND seduce targets to work for you.

    The Quantum Mortars will blitz the entire group as they fight and kill targets like crazy.

    You can do all your missions on Elite setting with this setup and it will feel like EASY MODE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Nausicaans beat Orions as melee (Physical Strength and Pirate).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    true, but i am not a fan of Predator want-to-be's.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Use a shotgun (pulsewave assault...) as melee weapon. Problem solved. :p
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