test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Bortas +1 ships
System
Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I for one love the KDF and would love to keep supporting the KDF as a KDF player but I have a few issues I would like to outline with the bortas and any +1 variants that are being discussed internally to be released for the company to make their money.
First issue is that the ship has turned out to be a vo'quv carrier that has no subsystem targeting or hangars to back up its immense size and slow turning which was also the catch and love of the vo'quv.
Second issue is that you can use cannons or beams on this ship but at the expense of even the best pilots in the game using this ship will have broken fingers and might as well be using some other ship because the aspects of surviving and dps are just too difficult to balance and there is no obvious pros versus the many cons of this ship.
The final issue which is the breaking point of this ship either being useful or not. There is only 2 ways to go forward with this which to be blunt is to redesign it to be put in a middle ground area between a negh var and a carrier because to be honest what empire would design a ship that has all that wasted space a carrier takes up without the advantages? If its set in stone that it will never be redesigned then there is only one direction this can go. The ship being new and in theory the most advanced ship in the empires fleet (debatable as the point of this thread) that it must have advanced weapons to satisfy its large proportions and slow ungodly I'll put the finger nail clippers in my keyboard and do some laundry while this thing turns. Then its going to need some kind of weapon preferably something that looks Klingon and not some knock off federation beam boat. Pretty much the only thing I can think of is that is that some brilliant Klingon will need to invent some kind of heavy turrets. It needs cannons but the only true way this ship is going to make it is a turret based technology without trying to break your fingers trying to steer this monstrosity.
Its either make it useful or give us a new KDF content mission to start leasing our Bortas's out to the ferrengi for a Battleship Casino or Possibly a minigame to use it for to use ramming speed into an Asteroid.
First issue is that the ship has turned out to be a vo'quv carrier that has no subsystem targeting or hangars to back up its immense size and slow turning which was also the catch and love of the vo'quv.
Second issue is that you can use cannons or beams on this ship but at the expense of even the best pilots in the game using this ship will have broken fingers and might as well be using some other ship because the aspects of surviving and dps are just too difficult to balance and there is no obvious pros versus the many cons of this ship.
The final issue which is the breaking point of this ship either being useful or not. There is only 2 ways to go forward with this which to be blunt is to redesign it to be put in a middle ground area between a negh var and a carrier because to be honest what empire would design a ship that has all that wasted space a carrier takes up without the advantages? If its set in stone that it will never be redesigned then there is only one direction this can go. The ship being new and in theory the most advanced ship in the empires fleet (debatable as the point of this thread) that it must have advanced weapons to satisfy its large proportions and slow ungodly I'll put the finger nail clippers in my keyboard and do some laundry while this thing turns. Then its going to need some kind of weapon preferably something that looks Klingon and not some knock off federation beam boat. Pretty much the only thing I can think of is that is that some brilliant Klingon will need to invent some kind of heavy turrets. It needs cannons but the only true way this ship is going to make it is a turret based technology without trying to break your fingers trying to steer this monstrosity.
Its either make it useful or give us a new KDF content mission to start leasing our Bortas's out to the ferrengi for a Battleship Casino or Possibly a minigame to use it for to use ramming speed into an Asteroid.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
I have fun playing with it but it is a voQ without the pets, a negh'var without the speed and is so easy to pop at times that it will die 9 times out of 10 to even the borg in Ker'rat.
I love its firepower but find cannons useless on it as once your target moves out of the 45 degrees forward firing arc, they are never going back into it and will find it very simple a task to avoid the deadly weapons this beast can carry.
Beams are very effective but offer little more than an experience akin to flying a fed beam boat with a semi-decent defense platform that is weakened by the recent console changes that effected shielding.
Under its last minute changes the BortaS was taken from effective but balanced DPV boat with good tanking into being a less than effective DPV boat with marginal tanking that can't cloak.
I relish the return of the +1 with th original stats that we tested before changes where made that crippled us but hardly effected the feds.
Weapons: 4 Fore, 4 Aft
Device Slots: 4
Console Upgrades: 4 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 1 Science
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Commander Engineering, 1 Ensign Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal
Hull Strength: 43,500
Maximum Warp: 9.96
Turn Rate: 5.5
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Shield Modifier: 1.0
+15 Power to Weapons
Standard Cloaking Device (at 80% cloaking effectiveness)
Can Equip Cannons
loss of +5 engines
Meaning that one can build the nerfed BortaS as a Negh'var clone (ComEng/LTC:Eng/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Eng) or go radical and build it as a ComEng/LTC:Sci/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Eng unsupported sciboat or ComEng/LTC:Tac/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Eng gunboat.
versus
Requires: Vice Admiral rank (level 50)
Weapons: 4 Fore, 4 Aft
Device Slots: 4
Console Upgrades: 2 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Ensign Science, 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal
Hull Strength: 42,000
Maximum Warp: 9.996
Turn Rate: 6
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Shield Modifier: 1.15
+10 Power to Shields, +10 Power to Auxiliary
Advanced Quantum Slipstream Drive (doubles standard Slipstream Drive time)
If one looks the BortaS for some unexplained reason lost way more than the feds did in comparison. Several things where removed from it at the last moment, the +5 engines power (leaving it 5 points less than the 20 total used in ship design bonus powers versus the Odysses), the Universal Ensign slot , a 20% drop in its cloak effectiveness for no reason and of course the side nerf that came in the way of a console change that crippled this vessel due to its single science console slot.
The Odysses on the other hand appears to have only lost its Universal Esnign slot.
What gives?
We needed a last minute kick in the moQ just becuase somebody whined about those tactical slots?
The +1 needed to be sweeten to promote sales and the Tribble test BortaS looked to good and threaten that revenue potential?
The franchise just seems stuck on the whole KDF is OP TRIBBLE and it gets us bitten in the Sa'Hut everytime, regardless if its been proven not true time and time again.
I would have been happy with a set-up that put the Universal Ensign slot back on both vessels and if the stats ended up like this on release day.
Weapons: 4 Fore, 4 Aft
Device Slots: 4
Console Upgrades: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 2 Science
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Commander Engineering, 1 Ensign Universal, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal
Hull Strength: 43,500
Maximum Warp: 9.96
Turn Rate: 5.5
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Shield Modifier: 1.0
+15 Power to Weapons
+5 Power to Weapons
Standard Cloaking Device
Can Equip Cannons
Meaning that one could build the +1 BortaS as an assortment of ideas.
ComEng/LTC:Eng/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Tac
ComEng/LTC:Tac/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Eng
ComEng/LTC:Sci/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Tac
ComEng/LTC:Tac/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:Sci
ComEng/LTC:Eng/LT:Sci/LT:Tac/Ens:eng
etc etc. Giving it a more versatile use and feel.
But it seems that I am not to take the KDF seriuosly since the Devs seem to not take it so (as evidenced by last minute skewed changes), and PWE is still only feeding us Tey instead of honest progress in building the faction up and giving it a life and image of its own that says , " This is the KDF."
SO I plinker at playing pve and PvP, grind a few missions for my daily 8k dilithium, spend a few minutes in Ker'rat dying to the feds and then log off.
I am pleased that the Devs thought of us and spent the time to build us a flagship to represent the KDF in battle, but the last minute nuetering before it went live was not needed and is not how one builds up a faction.
Not to mention that on a personal level it still rubs salt in the old wounds of being the forgotten fans in STO to see this sort of aproach still being used on the eve of a new year for Cryptic.
The best possible bet like you were saying Roach is give it back its survivability for Tacts and Sci's to still be able to use it but I think the overall use for cannons is still a new design of cannon that would only work for the bortas which Cryptic could easily come back on the winning side by making these Heavy Turrets is what I'd call them the arc of beams but a more eye pleasing FX than standard turrets and damage to go with them. Even if it is just through consoles in the C-Store if it would balance this ship properly I would support it and get them for all the characters I wanted to use the bortas with.
As for the KHG space set what we first need to be able to do is use the masking field and the cloak together to use that as a balance for our cloaking problem which I would figure is easier than hearing screams of the feds that it was better with the gimped cloak since it has the draw back of the cool down timer. The other issue is they need to get these heavy turrets in and make them have a proc of a certain torpedo type that they can fire as to say the proc would be if the turret overheated. That would retain the value of the set for the most part and it would just be a matter of luck when it did fire the torpedos rather than something ppl would fear would be a guaranteed solid for torpedos so it wouldn't be affected with torpedo skills.
Overall I think these are reasonable requests that are being made so far. Odds are though with fears of pvp that frankly does not really exist in STO unless you count 50 of one faction going after a little handful of the other faction. Plus for both ships no one is really going to use them for pvp purposes unless its an all out match where everyone knows going in its going to be all flagships. As for PvE purposes with the proposed changes or ideas for Cryptic to make money and make this ship better I'm pretty sure even fed only players when they are getting torn up by borg would love a really strong klingon to save their aft hull
Yeah as that Federation Captain would say before he died to a Jem Hadar Kamikaze run... We predict the jem hadar will have more teeth than the maquis. So hmmm its not very star trek if vessels over a century old in design have more teeth than the Bortas or Even the Odyssey.
I strongly agree with this assessment.
It really looks awesome, but it's abilities are just average overall.
My Eng tank/beamboat build flies one, parking his Negh'Var, but my other 4 KDF Lt Gen are still flying their same ships, even tho they did the mission to get one.
Pretty much only difference besides all of us more than likely having different playing styles all are forced into playing this ship the exact same way is that the abilities are all one sided as its clear to me now its design was intended to be strong but the design itself was flawed based on it was all designed around an engineer playing it. I'd give it a less than average overall due to diversity being a key element in the Star Trek Theme itself where as this design defies the essence of Star Trek itself. On a serious note though who designs a ship that does not have any possible applications to 2/3 of the classes of a faction as well as negates the possibility of 2/3 of the weapon types available in the game. The negh var worked for so long as the flagship because you could take any class and they could survive in it and you could use torpedoes, cannons, beams, mines anything pretty much and still make a valid setup. This thing though the only difference in the setups is what kind of energy weapons he/she/person next to you is using on their engineer. Overall I think they wanted us to make an all Engineer KDF Team with bortas's and each one of us uses different energy types so it looks like we are making a rainbow.
Namely had a bop come out and some sort of stasis field.
I also saw some aux craft in a twitter feed.
Can't wait for clarification.
I still hold the thinking of us KDF in high regards becuase the Devs did not need to make us a flagship but given that what I tested on tribble functioned better in all respects versus the vessel that was unvieled on Holodeck, I do feel slighted.
If the +1 purchaseble version has the nerfed components added back then alls well. If not then it has little draw to me other than as a collectors item.
I say this becuase the Tribble stats allowed me to make an effective build that gave good DPV and tanked fairly well in Ker'rat against both the Borg cubes and other PvP'ers but the Holodeck nerfed version is only effective at Normal difficulty in a non-STF, non-PvP enviroment. When I have played it in a STF or in Ker'rat against the Borg or otehr PvP'ers I find it does less damage and has less tanking ability overall and performs poorly.
This has caused me to question the resoning for the nerfs that the BortaS has recieved so close to its unvieling.
Oh yeah thanks Staran for summarizing it to the point so I didn't have to waste my little free time to listen to that... Nothing against those podcasters but I can't stand listening to people beat around the bush when I just want the info and nothing else.
As far as rest of ppl who posted here it does show that the little of the KDF there was months ago has more than likely gotten bored and left the veteran KDF players are an endangered species and the only voice left
All things considered the Bortas is a pretty ship, but as far as a combat ship.. it flat stinks..
I've been able to come up with a viable load out for an Odyssey. I don't find myself able to come up with one for the Bortas even with my best KDF character.
The KDF Honor Guard set has this semi usefull ability.. to any but the mounting ship.. A set that shoould have been a shoe in for mounting on the BortaS.
My lead KDF has gone back to her Vorcha refit... Its just a better ship.
The BortaS would be a decent tanking ship if it could actually pack a punch. Unfortunatly.. it does not pack a punch. Undooubtably the 2000 to 2400 cp +1 version with its pet will be more able but I am starting to doubt if I'm going to be wiling to shell out for a ship that is simply mislabled.. Its not a battlecruiser...
......... Its an easy to kill taget. I'll try a SCI CC tank build with it and perhapes get some utility out of it but as the ship currently stands i'm pretty underwhelmed with it. More then anything else its that utterly horrid turn mode. I'll try a zoom and boom ram ship build with it. Maybe that'll turn it into something worth flying (even though the entire idea of building a ship build to purpously ram other ships is an anathema to me.. It feel utterly wrong do even have the ability to do so.
The BortaS in its current form just sounds like the VoQuv without its hangers.
Im sorry but I took a break so I could get pumped up for the next FE; however, since coming back to the forums, Im beginning to think I should stay away a bit longer.
It seems like chance boxes are going to be the only way to get and truly useful ships.
With luck maybe Cryptic will give the BortaS another pass and address some of the concerns that some of the players have been bringing up.
It just does not sit right with me when I see KDF vessels and consoles steadily being nurtured because of the Fed cries of overpowered-ness while most of the Fed vessels and equipment seem to get small improvements at the same time.
Oh yeah added this in yeah I agree this is definately not a battle cruiser or a carrier. Although it was given the worst of both. Ability to use cannons but not actually able to use them. Only if they could be redesigned to be battle cruisers I think that would satisfy me. I am still trying to understand what motivated someone to design a KDF ship to use beams and call it a battle cruiser its just not registering.
I plan to play the +1 like this;
Commander: ET1 RSP1 EPTS3 A2S3
LTC: PH1 ST2 TSS3
LT: HE1 PO1
LT: BO1 ApB1 or BFAW1 CRF1
Ensign: TT1
Though it is basically a beam boat with DHCs in front to use during the first alpha. After that its fly in circles.