I think that any community moderator that is picked should be required to have a dispute button/abuse button under their name, so in the case of abuse or a dispute someone from cryptic can go over all the logs and see if anybody needs a spanking.
Yep, even if they are wrong, or hell, even if they're right
But if they're beligerant, then they can go and get knotted. Or I'll at least try and calm then down first and try to get a non-goon response out of them. lol
I think that any community moderator that is picked should be required to have a dispute button/abuse button under their name, so in the case of abuse or a dispute someone from cryptic can go over all the logs and see if anybody needs a spanking.
If anyone but Dan Stahl tries to spank me, I'll put up a fight. lol
(I'm assuming Dan Stahl is Alec Baldwin in 30 Rock)
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Yes we know. Your First Amendment rights, Freedom of Speech, but do you remember when you had first toggled the check that you had read and agreed to follow Cryptics TOS at the beginning? To follow their rules, which includes the forum posting rules?
"Ones argument loses validity when known to be a liar from it's offset."
Heres my response PW & Cryptic. I wait on ONE infraction and I will end my subscription. PERIOD. Have a good day.
Why such a stand offish stance? If a moderator edits a post of yours ,and/or provides you with an infraction because of the poor behavior, why would you leave?
Why such a stand offish stance? If a moderator edits a post of yours ,and/or provides you with an infraction because of the poor behavior, why would you leave?
You say that as if whether you "accept" an administrators decision is actually meaningful. If they recommend you get banned and you get banned, your acceptance is not relevant.
by 'they' I assume you mean a volunteer moderator.
the thing is my (and everyone elses for that matter) acceptance is relevant in that situation. why? because as unpaid, 'volunteer' staff that are not recognized as employees by cryptic they do not have the legal authority to make such recommendations any more than you or I can pick a name off this message board right now and say he or she should be banned. there is no law that says I have to accept any decision made against me on the recommendation of someone that doesn't even work for a company. that borders on harassment, something I have zero tolerance for from administrators
in short, basing any bans or action against a customer on recommendations from someone who doesn't work for the company, and by people part of a program that is near universally corrupt in every game its implemented in, is grounds to get a company in trouble. I will remind you that there are a considerable number of laws and regulations that state how you can treat a customer.
now if a normal admin has an issue to take up a ban with me that is different, provided it is input from that admin or a normal admin who is a legitimate employee of cryptic I would not have a problem with it, provided the reason is legitimate. but I will not accept any decision based on something from some unpaid forum mod, who for all I know could have a grudge or who probably doesn't even take the job as seriously as they should.
should it happen I will make an issue of it with cryptic and will go over their heads to resolve the situation if necessary.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Ah, yes. The Constitution. Too bad it starts with the words "Congress shall not..." instead of "Cryptic shall not..."
Yes we know. Your First Amendment rights, Freedom of Speech, but do you remember when you had first toggled the check that you had read and agreed to follow Cryptics TOS at the beginning? To follow their rules, which includes the forum posting rules?
There's a marked difference between self-serving forum demagogues who've been yearning for a chance to grief, if not permanently silence, their opponents; and legitimate Cryptic/PWE employees who've been trained to moderate a forum fairly.
One may consent to the latter without necessarily wishing for the former.
However, as this is going to happen anyway; the choice we have is to apply, or hope any damage done by our peers (such as deletion of worthy posts) can be undone.
There's a marked difference between self-serving forum demagogues who've been yearning for a chance to grief, if not permanently silence, their opponents; and legitimate Cryptic/PWE employees who've been trained to moderate a forum fairly.
...
Little men with big erasers, and all that.
That's why Cryptic is going to be screening them and why there will only be two. They have to have a history of following the rules and avoiding flame wars. This isn't going to be a case of them bringing on some newb or repeat offender. Odds are in order to be considered, you have to have a minimum number of posts with few infractions. Only the long term and fair posters would be able to even apply.
That's why Cryptic is going to be screening them and why there will only be two. They have to have a history of following the rules and avoiding flame wars. This isn't going to be a case of them bringing on some newb or repeat offender. Odds are in order to be considered, you have to have a minimum number of posts with few infractions. Only the long term and fair posters would be able to even apply.
Let's hope there's enough time to adequately screen applicants:
Z3R0B4NG just so you know, community moderators are not able to give infraction points or ban any user.
P.S. I like your idea about Cryptic giving you the German forum to moderate, however without Cryptic having someone who officially works for with them who can speak German, who you can co-ordinate with, then they can't do that.
the thing is my (and everyone elses for that matter) acceptance is relevant in that situation. why? because as unpaid, 'volunteer' staff that are not recognized as employees by cryptic they do not have the legal authority to make such recommendations
According to Stormshade, they explicitly do. From the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies:
Infraction points may only be given by a member of the PWE Community Team, and may not be given by a Community Moderator. Community Moderators may suggest, however, that a member of the community receive an infraction point.
I can communicate in english just fine, why would i need a german employee to talk to?
there are enough german forum users who are perfectly able to speak english, those would go and complain about me if i horribly misbehave ...so that would not be a serious risk to take for Cryptic either.
Also if PWE is able to translate the client to german, they surely can send the same guy to review (or translate) the few submitted hard cases, once or twice a month if needed.
Anyway, i would rather "moderate" and collect feedback from a part of the community that isn't even able to voice it at the moment, i think that would be more valuable than handing out silly warnings all the time.
This doesn't sound like that bad an idea actually, it all depends on who they select to do it though. as long as the people they choose are objective and don't treat posts that criticise the game as trolling, then it shouldn't be a problem. That said, the ammount of spam and trolling you can get on a F2P games forum can be quite significant, so the moderators are certainly going to have thier work set up for them!
I'll certainly be intrigued to see how this pans out, more so since these new moderators could help colate ideas on the forums as well, and help get them dev attention.
Good Lux !! We all love the game and the community thus shall try their best. for better or for worse.
At the hospital the unpaid "helpers" are quite nice and professional, though this is obviously different, lets give it a chance.
Moser Roth chocolate MMMMMMMMM though i dont know about this chili chocolate
also I do prefer the anonymous suggestion that was posted. To keep the forum politics out.
That said,I have only 2 more things to say about this....1. The changes to the game and the forums over the past year,the style of moderation of some.....PWE....all of it has lead to me not caring anymore.I'm fed up and done with you.I still play the game because I like playing with my friends.There was a time I had fun posting on the forums,interacting with people,making friends (and enemies).....giving feedback and offering new ideas on how to improve the KDF faction and the game as a whole.And thanks to all of you at Cryptic/PWE I just don't care anymore... 2. If you want my help moderating these forums,you should pay me....PWE likes to get paid too,don't they?
Im really pleased to announce that well be instituting a Community Moderation Program on the Champions Online, and Star Trek Online forums.
Along with this, well also be the first forums to implement the new PWE Community Rules and Policies.
........
Stormshade
Hi Stormshade,
Question for you: What happened to Enemy Contacts? Once completed, they do not come back up to start as a new mission and they do not count for Accolades once the set is completed.
Have tried to file a Ticket, but been unable to do so. Have been forced to file Tickets under GM Tickets in order to get a delayed answer.
Also, ship I bought for all toons does not show up as available for toons who have not claimed that particular ship. Is it now lost or untainable unless I repay for it again? Seems a bit harsh to charge someone for a ship that has already been paid for.
At the same time, not adding additional moderators right now seems like a horrible thing to me. Q, Branflakes, and myself can only do so much moderation each day, and still do all the other things we're supposed to do.
I wouldn't look at this as "loosening" the reigns at all. I'd look at it as a way for us to tighten the reigns, and increase the amount of moderation on the forums.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Hi Stormshade,
I purchased a the Galaxy Retrofit last summer, along with other ships both before and after. All ships are available to my other toons, except for the Galaxy Retrofit. Yet, in the C Store, it does clearly say that it is available for all Fed toons.when purchased. I have filed a Ticket over a week ago, but no one has replied back.
Doing so here as well. Would appreciate both correction and follow up.
I believe that if a New CM begins to "abuse their power", that reports will come in and that CM will be relieved of duty after investigating the inccident. I'm confident Stormy would drop the "ban hammer" just as quickly, if not quicker, on a bad CM as he would a "troll". Or a Star Wars thead
and just to make this clear - if this disaster of an idea is actually implemented, count me as someone who will not acknowledge any 'authority' they claim to have, will not accept any form of recommendation, positive or negative made by any of them about me, will not accept any infractions, rewards, warnings or any decision made for or against me by any mod, dev or administrator that had any input whatsoever from one of these 'volunteer moderators' they are not officially representing cryptic, therefore they have no right to do any of the above nor to have any input toward anything in regards to me.
in short, I will have nothing whatsoever to do with them and will not recognize any supposed 'authority' they have. don't push me on this cryptic. i've been burned bad by this kind of thing more than once and have a low tolerance for such programs. consider this notice to keep such people away from me in any capacity. if anybody from cryptic has an admin issue thats fine, I expect to deal with a cryptic admin in such situations and only a cryptic admin.
That's fine. You don't have to accept anything. However, these rules, and this program, ARE going into place. This is not changing. So, in short, if you don't ever break any of the forum rules, you should never, ever, hear from one of these Community Moderators in a way which makes you unhappy. If you do break the rules, well, no one forced you to do that, and the people which we choose to moderate our forum will be allowed to, by us, to moderate your posts.
I understand and agree that there will be a need for many more moderators very soon. I even believe this process should've begun weeks ago considering F2P is here in ten days.
I've been for Cryptic on some issues and against them on others. I've tried (not always successfully) to argue logically and dispassionately. For the most part, people who fall on the opposite side of an issue have argued their point with me in a very respectful manner. There's been playful "jabs" meant to lighten the mood and I've never taken any of those personally, as I hope none of mine ever were.
Sorry for the long winded preface, but here's my point; There are ALWAYS people who come in to every thread to insult anyone who's opinion is different from theirs. This is not isolated to one side, there are the "Cryptic can do no right" crowd, and the "Cryptic can do no wrong" crowd. My biggest concern is this; I doubt Cryptic would choose moderators from the "Cryptic sucks" crowd and I don't think they should, but I do believe that the "Cryptic is God" crowd has a good shot of becoming moderators. They never say anything negative about Cryptic, and they definitely have the mindset that would motivate them to volunteer for a payless "job" with Cryptic.
I'm fearful that if this is the pool from which the new moderators will come, that the forums will quickly become deserted, that anyone who dares to disagree with some change or marketing scheme (red boxes), will get banned for speaking out. I'm not trying to imply that this is what Cryptic wants, I'm just saying it's a worry of mine.
I honestly believe that it is important for the community to ALWAYS be able to voice their opinion of Cryptic or STO - for OR against - and NOT be picked on for that opinion. EVERYONE here contributes to the life of STO and the success or failure of Cryptic, EVERYONE here deserves to communicate their opinions to Cryptic - fanboys and nay-sayers alike. Some trolls not withstanding, this is currently how it is, I hope the new batch of volunter moderators doesn't change it.
Thanks for reading, and sorry for the length.
If a Community Moderator is found to not be moderating the forums fairly, and impartially, we will remove them from their position. Simple.
by 'they' I assume you mean a volunteer moderator.
the thing is my (and everyone elses for that matter) acceptance is relevant in that situation. why? because as unpaid, 'volunteer' staff that are not recognized as employees by cryptic they do not have the legal authority to make such recommendations any more than you or I can pick a name off this message board right now and say he or she should be banned. there is no law that says I have to accept any decision made against me on the recommendation of someone that doesn't even work for a company. that borders on harassment, something I have zero tolerance for from administrators
in short, basing any bans or action against a customer on recommendations from someone who doesn't work for the company, and by people part of a program that is near universally corrupt in every game its implemented in, is grounds to get a company in trouble. I will remind you that there are a considerable number of laws and regulations that state how you can treat a customer.
now if a normal admin has an issue to take up a ban with me that is different, provided it is input from that admin or a normal admin who is a legitimate employee of cryptic I would not have a problem with it, provided the reason is legitimate. but I will not accept any decision based on something from some unpaid forum mod, who for all I know could have a grudge or who probably doesn't even take the job as seriously as they should.
should it happen I will make an issue of it with cryptic and will go over their heads to resolve the situation if necessary.
Except for the fact that we, as the forum administrators, are giving people the right to moderate the forums, who do not work for us.
If a volunteer moderator were to suggest that someone be banned or suspended, the Community Manager would have to look into that users posting history, infraction/warning history, and yes, even the history between the moderator and the poster involved.
In the end however, the decision is entirely that of the Community Manager's, and the Moderators recommendation is only meant to bring a person to the Community Manager's attention.
What is the stance on MODDING now with the new rules? (you know, the good fun kind of UI and Textures modding, not the cheating kind)
ATARI dropped the Bomb when they updated the community rules sometime last year, and since then sto-advanced.com from Pendra37 has gone offline because of it
...and using a mouse cursor texture replacement that you can actually SEE is illegal since then.
The one thing i want to see from the new rules is that this is being reversed and using the "texture override folder" (a function that CRYPTIC provided with the STO Client!) being officially allowed again.
I have not seen anything about Modding in the PWE rules that i have read, so the stance on that is one of the biggest concerns for me.
are we back to "use at your own risk"
or are we still at "risk getting banned for it" ?!
i want my modding back!
Modding is, was, and always will be against the rules. It's been that way from the get go, since day one, and even before the game launched. This will not be changing.
Now, since this has gone over about how I expected, let me make some things perfectly clear:
Community Moderators will not be issuing suspensions, bans, or infraction points, EVER.
Community Mods will be able to issue 0 point warnings and infractions, primarily so that we have documentation on what they are doing, and why they are doing it.
Only a Community Manager, employed by PWE will be able to issue Suspensions, bans, or infraction points.
If a moderator is found to not be moderating the forums in what we believe to be a fair and just manner, they can, and will be, removed.
As members of the community, you will be able to let us know if a mod is abusing their power, by filing a community ticket, which will be answered by a Community Manager, who will investigate the situation.
Folks, with Free to Play looming right around the corner, we're expecting much more traffic on the forums. This will also mean more moderation work, and trust me when I say we already spend a good amount of time each day moderating the forums, and we don't get to everything.
By allowing the community to take part in moderating the forums, we enable our Community Managers to be able to spend more time collecting your feedback, and less time spent going through the reported post queue. We also enable you, the community, to have more control over the community that you all love.
At the same time, there is a decent portion of this community who simply doesn't want any moderation at all. Simply put, this isn't going to happen. There's kids that play this game, kids who read these forums, and far too many people going off on rants which are simply not appropriate for these forums.
If you don't like the idea we're going with right now, I can understand that. However, this issue has been decided. I've done the best I can to come up with a fair, and non-biased selection process, and level of power for the community moderators. It's been vetted by multiple people here, and gone through several revisions. It honestly isn't going to get any better than this, and the process is being implemented.
Comments
Yep, even if they are wrong, or hell, even if they're right
But if they're beligerant, then they can go and get knotted. Or I'll at least try and calm then down first and try to get a non-goon response out of them. lol
If anyone but Dan Stahl tries to spank me, I'll put up a fight. lol
(I'm assuming Dan Stahl is Alec Baldwin in 30 Rock)
And on that note, I go to bed. Good night....
lol me too. I'm up way past my bed time. Goodnight
That pic would be perfect if the ship was fishtailing at a 45 degree angle.
As for the main topic...I've done the unpaid volunteer thing twice before (AOL, and SDE). I think I'll pass on the concept from now on.
Yes we know. Your First Amendment rights, Freedom of Speech, but do you remember when you had first toggled the check that you had read and agreed to follow Cryptics TOS at the beginning? To follow their rules, which includes the forum posting rules?
"Ones argument loses validity when known to be a liar from it's offset."
Why such a stand offish stance? If a moderator edits a post of yours ,and/or provides you with an infraction because of the poor behavior, why would you leave?
If folks would read the "Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies (Effective Jan 20, 2012)" thread...
People would realise that "Infraction points may only be given by a member of the PWE Community Team, and may not be given by a Community Moderator."
by 'they' I assume you mean a volunteer moderator.
the thing is my (and everyone elses for that matter) acceptance is relevant in that situation. why? because as unpaid, 'volunteer' staff that are not recognized as employees by cryptic they do not have the legal authority to make such recommendations any more than you or I can pick a name off this message board right now and say he or she should be banned. there is no law that says I have to accept any decision made against me on the recommendation of someone that doesn't even work for a company. that borders on harassment, something I have zero tolerance for from administrators
in short, basing any bans or action against a customer on recommendations from someone who doesn't work for the company, and by people part of a program that is near universally corrupt in every game its implemented in, is grounds to get a company in trouble. I will remind you that there are a considerable number of laws and regulations that state how you can treat a customer.
now if a normal admin has an issue to take up a ban with me that is different, provided it is input from that admin or a normal admin who is a legitimate employee of cryptic I would not have a problem with it, provided the reason is legitimate. but I will not accept any decision based on something from some unpaid forum mod, who for all I know could have a grudge or who probably doesn't even take the job as seriously as they should.
should it happen I will make an issue of it with cryptic and will go over their heads to resolve the situation if necessary.
Ah, yes. The Constitution. Too bad it starts with the words "Congress shall not..." instead of "Cryptic shall not..."
Judge Aaron Satie, actually. As quoted by Jean-Luc Picard.
There's a marked difference between self-serving forum demagogues who've been yearning for a chance to grief, if not permanently silence, their opponents; and legitimate Cryptic/PWE employees who've been trained to moderate a forum fairly.
One may consent to the latter without necessarily wishing for the former.
However, as this is going to happen anyway; the choice we have is to apply, or hope any damage done by our peers (such as deletion of worthy posts) can be undone.
Little men with big erasers, and all that.
That's why Cryptic is going to be screening them and why there will only be two. They have to have a history of following the rules and avoiding flame wars. This isn't going to be a case of them bringing on some newb or repeat offender. Odds are in order to be considered, you have to have a minimum number of posts with few infractions. Only the long term and fair posters would be able to even apply.
Let's hope there's enough time to adequately screen applicants:
P.S. I like your idea about Cryptic giving you the German forum to moderate, however without Cryptic having someone who officially works for with them who can speak German, who you can co-ordinate with, then they can't do that.
According to Stormshade, they explicitly do. From the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies: What exactly does 'not accepting' a ban mean? If you're banned, you can't just say "I refuse to accept this" and log in anyway.
there are enough german forum users who are perfectly able to speak english, those would go and complain about me if i horribly misbehave ...so that would not be a serious risk to take for Cryptic either.
Also if PWE is able to translate the client to german, they surely can send the same guy to review (or translate) the few submitted hard cases, once or twice a month if needed.
Anyway, i would rather "moderate" and collect feedback from a part of the community that isn't even able to voice it at the moment, i think that would be more valuable than handing out silly warnings all the time.
I'll certainly be intrigued to see how this pans out, more so since these new moderators could help colate ideas on the forums as well, and help get them dev attention.
At the hospital the unpaid "helpers" are quite nice and professional, though this is obviously different, lets give it a chance.
Moser Roth chocolate MMMMMMMMM though i dont know about this chili chocolate
also I do prefer the anonymous suggestion that was posted. To keep the forum politics out.
That said,I have only 2 more things to say about this....1. The changes to the game and the forums over the past year,the style of moderation of some.....PWE....all of it has lead to me not caring anymore.I'm fed up and done with you.I still play the game because I like playing with my friends.There was a time I had fun posting on the forums,interacting with people,making friends (and enemies).....giving feedback and offering new ideas on how to improve the KDF faction and the game as a whole.And thanks to all of you at Cryptic/PWE I just don't care anymore... 2. If you want my help moderating these forums,you should pay me....PWE likes to get paid too,don't they?
... it's becoming more and more appealing as each week passes...
I've adjusted my sig accordingly...
<shudder>
Hi Stormshade,
Question for you: What happened to Enemy Contacts? Once completed, they do not come back up to start as a new mission and they do not count for Accolades once the set is completed.
Have tried to file a Ticket, but been unable to do so. Have been forced to file Tickets under GM Tickets in order to get a delayed answer.
Also, ship I bought for all toons does not show up as available for toons who have not claimed that particular ship. Is it now lost or untainable unless I repay for it again? Seems a bit harsh to charge someone for a ship that has already been paid for.
Would appreciate feedback.
Thank you,
Robert Hall
thexmen
Lifetime Member since Beta
Hi Stormshade,
I purchased a the Galaxy Retrofit last summer, along with other ships both before and after. All ships are available to my other toons, except for the Galaxy Retrofit. Yet, in the C Store, it does clearly say that it is available for all Fed toons.when purchased. I have filed a Ticket over a week ago, but no one has replied back.
Doing so here as well. Would appreciate both correction and follow up.
Thank you,
Robert Hall
thexmen
Lifetime Member since Beta
It will be text based.
Correct!
Correct, they'll be working with/reporting to the game's Community Manager.
That's fine. You don't have to accept anything. However, these rules, and this program, ARE going into place. This is not changing. So, in short, if you don't ever break any of the forum rules, you should never, ever, hear from one of these Community Moderators in a way which makes you unhappy. If you do break the rules, well, no one forced you to do that, and the people which we choose to moderate our forum will be allowed to, by us, to moderate your posts.
If a Community Moderator is found to not be moderating the forums fairly, and impartially, we will remove them from their position. Simple.
Except for the fact that we, as the forum administrators, are giving people the right to moderate the forums, who do not work for us.
If a volunteer moderator were to suggest that someone be banned or suspended, the Community Manager would have to look into that users posting history, infraction/warning history, and yes, even the history between the moderator and the poster involved.
In the end however, the decision is entirely that of the Community Manager's, and the Moderators recommendation is only meant to bring a person to the Community Manager's attention.
Modding is, was, and always will be against the rules. It's been that way from the get go, since day one, and even before the game launched. This will not be changing.
Now, since this has gone over about how I expected, let me make some things perfectly clear:
Folks, with Free to Play looming right around the corner, we're expecting much more traffic on the forums. This will also mean more moderation work, and trust me when I say we already spend a good amount of time each day moderating the forums, and we don't get to everything.
By allowing the community to take part in moderating the forums, we enable our Community Managers to be able to spend more time collecting your feedback, and less time spent going through the reported post queue. We also enable you, the community, to have more control over the community that you all love.
At the same time, there is a decent portion of this community who simply doesn't want any moderation at all. Simply put, this isn't going to happen. There's kids that play this game, kids who read these forums, and far too many people going off on rants which are simply not appropriate for these forums.
If you don't like the idea we're going with right now, I can understand that. However, this issue has been decided. I've done the best I can to come up with a fair, and non-biased selection process, and level of power for the community moderators. It's been vetted by multiple people here, and gone through several revisions. It honestly isn't going to get any better than this, and the process is being implemented.
Thanks,
Stormshade