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Forums > Home› Feedback› Klingon Discussion

So the Carrier is Down to 4 BOP on Tribble now?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Klingon Discussion
I've been out of the loop for quite a bit with my KDF Toon so I'm not sure if the change from 6 BOP to 4 was somenting that players knew was going to happen.

I like that they put in BOP and Fighter commands for the Carriers deployables but overall the Carrier feels much weaker.

If we have to give up some BOP and fighters it would be nice if what we can launch would be a bit stronger.

If you've yet to try the Carrier on Tribble, now would be good time.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    0Gambit0 wrote: »
    I've been out of the loop for quite a bit with my KDF Toon so I'm not sure if the change from 6 BOP to 4 was somenting that players knew was going to happen.

    I like that they put in BOP and Fighter commands for the Carriers deployables but overall the Carrier feels much weaker.

    If we have to give up some BOP and fighters it would be nice if what we can launch would be a bit stronger.

    If you've yet to try the Carrier on Tribble, now would be good time.

    I heard of the downsize (can't remember thread) but it also said that the pets would be toughened up with more Hitpoints and slightly better damage to compensate.
    Did they mess it up? :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Yeah, like they way they slipped that in?
    They did include the reduction for ALL carriers (and you were thinking how wonderful it was they gave us more carriers in the Cstore), in the last release on Tribble.
    Now, instead of 3 waves, all carriers will only launch 2 waves per hanger bay.
    We didn't know in advance for sure, doubt any saw it coming.
    It was in the patch release notes...I think there's so few carriers on Tribble that few noticed.
    Apparently, Carriers generate "spam" which makes the Feddies very unhappy...
    They've whined and cried about it since launch so much I'm really surprised that they came out with more Carriers at all.
    Months ago the reduced the number of fighters in a wave from 5 to 3...
    Now the number of waves is down to 2 from 3.
    Pretty soon it'll be one at a time...:rolleyes:
    Either that or you'll be able to buy a TRIBBLE carrier from the Cstore, but it'll have more hanger bays...

    All the details:
    •Carrier AI updates to fighters & raiders:
    ◦On Attack mode, craft will now follow you if there are no more enemies to fight, until you target a new enemy or are attacked.
    ◦On Recall mode, craft will engage full impulse to follow you if they are too far away.
    ◦Intercept mode has received overhauls.
    ■Your craft will intercept enemy mines, fighters, or torpedoes within 12 km preferentially, and will still attack enemy ships if no other small targets are available.
    ◦Updated all carrier fighter pets so you can equip more than one.
    ◦Buffed player carrier pets to compensate for reduction of waves from 3 to 2.
    ◦Updated carrier pet store so you can only buy certain pets if you own the correct ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Well, those changes were discussed for quite a while on an official thread with tons of replies. Not really sneaky. If the overall performance remains the same and spam is reduced at the same time, that would be good, hm ? ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I've been doing a bit more testing and I'm starting to like the new BOP when I use my skills to weaken my targets 4 of my BOP are down right deadly. I also noticed that my equiped BOP are now of Rare Blue quality.

    I 'd still suggest that all Carrier pilots log into Tribble to test but I don't have anymore complaints.... for now :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    The reduction in the number of waves was done as a first step towards getting spam under control. Yes, mines, Photonic Fleet, and many other things are going to be looked at as well.

    With the exception of Kar'fi Frigates, since the Kar'fi is getting an additional hanger, Carrier BoPs and fighters were strengthened both in damage and defense to compensate for the reduction in the number of waves.

    By the numbers, I think it's in the right ballpark, but numbers do sometimes lie, so if after collecting data and listening to feedback from people who have tried them there are issues, we will certainly consider changes as necessary.

    The intention, however, certainly was not to weaken carriers or strengthen them, but merely to give them more options and greater control.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I'm terribly sorry, but I do have a (somewhat unusual) question regarding the Kar'fi:
    will we ever get any alternate skins for it because right now we basically
    have Klingons flying around in captured models but I presume the Klingons would build their own
    models with similar capabilites but based on their own tech.
    And most likely they would not be this incredibly hideous because right now that's what's
    keeping me from using one.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The reduction in the number of waves was done as a first step towards getting spam under control. Yes, mines, Photonic Fleet, and many other things are going to be looked at as well.

    With the exception of Kar'fi Frigates, since the Kar'fi is getting an additional hanger, Carrier BoPs and fighters were strengthened both in damage and defense to compensate for the reduction in the number of waves.

    By the numbers, I think it's in the right ballpark, but numbers do sometimes lie, so if after collecting data and listening to feedback from people who have tried them there are issues, we will certainly consider changes as necessary.

    The intention, however, certainly was not to weaken carriers or strengthen them, but merely to give them more options and greater control.

    Thanks Heretic. Just out of curiosity though, and I may be shooting myself in the foot here because I drive a Kar'fi, but if the Kar'fi frigates are staying the same, because of the Kar'fi's extra hanger, what is preventing us from using the BoP and its stronger frigate, in the Kar'Fi.

    And if its, that Kar'Fi will only be able to use Kar'Fi fighters and frigates, why do we need an extra hanger then? Why not just boost the Kar'Fi fighters and frigates back to mobs of 3?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Cuffs wrote: »
    Thanks Heretic. Just out of curiosity though, and I may be shooting myself in the foot here because I drive a Kar'fi, but if the Kar'fi frigates are staying the same, because of the Kar'fi's extra hanger, what is preventing us from using the BoP and its stronger frigate, in the Kar'Fi.

    And if its, that Kar'Fi will only be able to use Kar'Fi fighters and frigates, why do we need an extra hanger then? Why not just boost the Kar'Fi fighters and frigates back to mobs of 3?

    The BoP can only be used in the Vo'quv, and the Kar'fi frigate can only be used in the Kar'fi. Only the fighters are now interchangeable.

    This still is an overall buff in the Kar'fi's damage output, which we felt was needed to compensate for its relative fragility compared to the Vo'quv, since a Kar'fi could before have three frigates out whereas now it can have four if both hangers have frigates.

    We are trying to juggle a number of different things here, from buffing fighters overall to reducing spam to improving carrier functionality and flexibility.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The BoP can only be used in the Vo'quv, and the Kar'fi frigate can only be used in the Kar'fi. Only the fighters are now interchangeable.

    This still is an overall buff in the Kar'fi's damage output, which we felt was needed to compensate for its relative fragility compared to the Vo'quv, since a Kar'fi could before have three frigates out whereas now it can have four if both hangers have frigates.

    We are trying to juggle a number of different things here, from buffing fighters overall to reducing spam to improving carrier functionality and flexibility.

    Thanks again Heretic!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    mister_dee wrote:
    I'm terribly sorry, but I do have a (somewhat unusual) question regarding the Kar'fi:
    will we ever get any alternate skins for it because right now we basically
    have Klingons flying around in captured models but I presume the Klingons would build their own
    models with similar capabilites but based on their own tech.
    And most likely they would not be this incredibly hideous because right now that's what's
    keeping me from using one.

    I think its one of the best looking ships in the game myself
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    i find the changes very bad for the carrier as of right now. on holodeck the fighters get 1 shoted and on tribble they still get 1 shoted and are just as weak as every.

    the cannon on the fighter dose allmost nothing and as allways the mini torp is all thats takeing down the enemy shields. all fighters in 1 pass can take a borg probe down to half health but after that they dont really do that much.

    the bops dont seem to like orders and will hide by my ship when i tell them to attack something 15km away. i got 4 of them to attack a fed escort in a war zone but with only EPTS i could not see any shield damage but in 1 attack a bop was at half health and in about 16 sec they were all dead with no damage to the escort. and last the bops like to stop fighting after 1 pass over the enemy sometimes they will sit their un cloaked for 30 sec with out moveing or fireing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    first step towards getting spam under control

    I don't quite understand what you mean by spam? Is there a problem with teams of players effectively using fighters, photonic fleets and mines to the best advantage. I see no need for a nerf when it comes to the number of objects on the screen, that seems a bit silly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    sarhamen wrote: »
    i find the changes very bad for the carrier as of right now. on holodeck the fighters get 1 shoted and on tribble they still get 1 shoted and are just as weak as every.

    the cannon on the fighter dose allmost nothing and as allways the mini torp is all thats takeing down the enemy shields. all fighters in 1 pass can take a borg probe down to half health but after that they dont really do that much.

    the bops dont seem to like orders and will hide by my ship when i tell them to attack something 15km away. i got 4 of them to attack a fed escort in a war zone but with only EPTS i could not see any shield damage but in 1 attack a bop was at half health and in about 16 sec they were all dead with no damage to the escort. and last the bops like to stop fighting after 1 pass over the enemy sometimes they will sit their un cloaked for 30 sec with out moveing or fireing.

    For some reason you sometimes have to click the BOP and then click the order that you want them to perform.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The reduction in the number of waves was done as a first step towards getting spam under control. Yes, mines, Photonic Fleet, and many other things are going to be looked at as well.

    This is excellent news. Thank you:).
    Arc_D wrote: »
    I don't quite understand what you mean by spam? Is there a problem with teams of players effectively using fighters, photonic fleets and mines to the best advantage. I see no need for a nerf when it comes to the number of objects on the screen, that seems a bit silly.

    Not sure if serious...

    >_>

    ... or just playing a different game than everyone else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Arc_D wrote: »
    I don't quite understand what you mean by spam? Is there a problem with teams of players effectively using fighters, photonic fleets and mines to the best advantage. I see no need for a nerf when it comes to the number of objects on the screen, that seems a bit silly.

    My carrier alone, even with the changes, puts out 6 fighters, 2 frigates, 5 mines, 3 holographic ships, a torpedo spread of 3 torps or a heavy torpedo of two torpedos, and is I'm low enough on health, 1-3 more ships. Plus, my own ships cannon (usually spread or rapid fire), oh and a gravity well. That a TON of graphic intensive "spam" that I alone am putting out, that the game server has to follow. Add a second carrier and its doubled. That's not even including all the stuff the other ships are putting out.

    So maybe "spam" isn't the best term, but its better then putting put "graphical intensive semi-player controlled non-player objects", don't you think?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    What about the Marauder Flight Deck Cruiser? Haven they made any changes to that?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Yes, we knew of these changes months ago at the very least back in August. It was simply a question of how long it would take to get implemented. Interesting to see how these changes will work out in the end.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Cuffs wrote: »
    My carrier alone, even with the changes, puts out 6 fighters, 2 frigates, 5 mines, 3 holographic ships, a torpedo spread of 3 torps or a heavy torpedo of two torpedos, and is I'm low enough on health, 1-3 more ships. Plus, my own ships cannon (usually spread or rapid fire), oh and a gravity well. That a TON of graphic intensive "spam" that I alone am putting out, that the game server has to follow. Add a second carrier and its doubled. That's not even including all the stuff the other ships are putting out.

    So maybe "spam" isn't the best term, but its better then putting put "graphical intensive semi-player controlled non-player objects", don't you think?

    So other than it having less health then a Negvhar, whats the carriers downside?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    the carrier has the most health of any ship in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    sarhamen wrote: »
    the carrier has the most health of any ship in the game.

    Sounded like the guy was saying that his was low on health to me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    whamhammer wrote: »
    So other than it having less health then a Negvhar, whats the carriers downside?

    Depends on the carrier. Vo'Quv has only 3 weapon slots forward and 3 aft. The kar'Fi has 4 forward/ 3 aft, but has slightly less health then the Vo'Quv. The missing weapon slot/slots are generally made up for though with the fighters and frigates it can launch. The Kar'Fi is getting slightly reduced damage out of their frigates because of the added weapon slot basically.

    And while their hull strength is about the same as any other ship in the game, they're science centered, meaning that they have practically zero ways to heal themselves, short of being driven by an Engineer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Slightly less hull ? My Kar Fi has less hull than my Raptor.:eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The reduction in the number of waves was done as a first step towards getting spam under control. Yes, mines, Photonic Fleet, and many other things are going to be looked at as well.

    With the exception of Kar'fi Frigates, since the Kar'fi is getting an additional hanger, Carrier BoPs and fighters were strengthened both in damage and defense to compensate for the reduction in the number of waves.

    By the numbers, I think it's in the right ballpark, but numbers do sometimes lie, so if after collecting data and listening to feedback from people who have tried them there are issues, we will certainly consider changes as necessary.

    The intention, however, certainly was not to weaken carriers or strengthen them, but merely to give them more options and greater control.


    Hey Heretic... can you guys please enhance the tooltips (show DPS for each weapon system the pets have at a minimum... maybe also show their max flight speed / shield / hull strength)? Thanks!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    amidoinitright wrote: »
    Slightly less hull ? My Kar Fi has less hull than my Raptor.:eek:

    Are you fully spec'ed into carriers and all the cruisers? your HP should be 43k+ on the Kar'fie. It has more hull then any escort BOP or raptor
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Just adding my two cents, the problem isn't the amount of deployed items, its the confusion they cause by adding brackets everywhere.

    My suggestion is in my signature, something like it would be good to consider, because deployables are fun, and I'd hate to see them continue to be reduced.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    USS_Enterprise_J wrote:
    Are you fully spec'ed into carriers and all the cruisers? your HP should be 43k+ on the Kar'fie. It has more hull then any escort BOP or raptor

    wow, you're right. when did that happen? my hull always used to be 34k, now its 41k. did we get a buff?

    Oh, nm. its 34k in sector space, 41k in combat maps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    whamhammer wrote: »
    So other than it having less health then a Negvhar, whats the carriers downside?

    The turn rate of a carrier is so slow as to defy reason, meaning its a target from the moment it shows up in the Que.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    The turn rate of a carrier is so slow as to defy reason, meaning its a target from the moment it shows up in the Que.

    Most of the guys in the PvP ques don't seem to have a problem with that. I've seen 3 or 4 at a time in the PvP ques, so it can't be that dehabilitating.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    whamhammer wrote: »
    Most of the guys in the PvP ques don't seem to have a problem with that. I've seen 3 or 4 at a time in the PvP ques, so it can't be that dehabilitating.

    I didn't say it was gimped or not fun, just so slow as to defy reason.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    I didn't say it was gimped or not fun, just so slow as to defy reason.

    Well it is a carrier after all. Maybe if we also tagged it as "System Monitor" that would help???? :D
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