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Explain Klingon Ships to a Fed!

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited November 2011 in Klingon Discussion
I started a klingon on Holodeck. I looked at a chart of what klingon ships there are, after you get out of the initial BoP and hit commander, and going on up. I just...don't...GET IT! What is the purpose for these ships? What roles do they fill? I saw that Raptors seem to be like escorts, and battlecruisers seem to be like cruisers, but what are BoPs? They have ALL universal slots? Are they whatever you want? And then theres this seige destroyer and the carriers, and a support vessel (which looks really cool and I want to fly it), Can someone lay it out in terms a simple minded fed, used to three neat categories, can understand? Is the Neg'Vhar like the star cruiser? Is the seige destroyer like the defiant? the prometheus? advanced or fleet escort? etc, etc.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    And this is why us who devote time to KDF love the KDF. Our ships are much cooler but dont really fit roles as you have pointed out beyond the Raptors. Even the early Battle Cruisers fly similar to Fed Sci ships and so can handle cannons very well.

    Just play with them and you will see what they can do and will likely not go back to the Boring Blue side.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Bird of Preys are raider class vessel designed to adapt to any role far behind enemy lines where they harrass and maraude to disrupt the enemies cohesion.
    They have the best BOff layout but the weakest hull and shields ingame to balance this advantage. BoPS are also the only vessel currently with battle cloak.

    Battle Cruisers are cruiser class vessels designed more for a tactical BOff set-ups, followed by Engineering and ending with a minor Science focus. They tend to have higher hull but lower shields than thier fed counterparts, plus a higher base turn rate.

    Raptors are the KDF weaker cousin of the fed escort.
    The Garumba is the better raptor.

    Carriers and support Vessels cover the remaining ships in the KDF and each has something different they bring to the fleet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Raptors are like a Heavy Escort. They are more tanky and sluggish than your average Escort but hit REAL hard.

    Warships like the K'tinga and such are essentially harder hitting Cruisers with greater mobility that can equip DHC's.

    BoP's are scouts and interference ships. They are NOT meant to sit and fight. They are meant to be used as part of a team to POP into existence and fire off very debilitating effects (likely Science) and take advantage of any weak enemies by Alpha Striking them from out of the blue. Once they land this they fade away again. A good BoP should not need Healing Skills much because they should never be around long enough to get people's attention. However they are not what you would call a good stand-alone ship.

    Carriers... Well... They are Carriers and there is nothing else quite like them. They are sort of a fusion between a Cruiser and a Science Vessel with pets.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Bird of Preys are raider class vessel designed to adapt to any role far behind enemy lines where they harrass and maraude to disrupt the enemies cohesion.
    They have the best BOff layout but the weakest hull and shields ingame to balance this advantage. BoPS are also the only vessel currently with battle cloak.

    Battle Cruisers are cruiser class vessels designed more for a tactical BOff set-ups, followed by Engineering and ending with a minor Science focus. They tend to have higher hull but lower shields than thier fed counterparts, plus a higher base turn rate.

    Raptors are the KDF weaker cousin of the fed escort.
    The Garumba is the better raptor.

    Carriers and support Vessels cover the remaining ships in the KDF and each has something different they bring to the fleet.

    I love my Guramba...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Raptors are very much like Federation Escorts, Battlecruisers are similar to cruisers but with the choice of more firepower when you're confident enough you'll get those cannons on the target.
    The BoP...I'll be blunt:
    To me it feels like Cryptik ran out of time and could not be bothered with a fully developed shiplist for the Klingons and made a decision that makes little sense to me:
    Ships have physical characteristics the make them suited for certain tasks:

    -cruisers have a lot of crew so they are good at damage control, they have big reactors and a larger hull so they can provide lots of power and can be properly armored.
    -escorts have a hughe chnk of their small hull dedicated to weaponry allowing them an immense foirepower relative to their limited displacement
    -science ships are designed to carry lots of sensors and laboratories and can use those systems in electronic warfare

    BoPs can do all those things because they are the smallest ships and therfore can carry all the systems larger and dedicated ships require hughe amounts of space for to carry them.:confused:

    So they left it to the players to make up the configs they feld were needed but at the expense of one ability.

    The BoP is a miniature escort (it does have the bonus to weapons) with a limited hull and immense agility that can make you dizzy at times.
    You can use whatever config you ever imagined you wanted to carry, but you can only do so at the expense of one ability relative to other ships of it tier.
    It can reinforce its shiels like a cruiser and repair its hull just as well when the need arises, however you should avoid all situations where this is needed because in such situations the weak hull will require you to respond very quickly or the low hull will collapse around you.
    Annoy the enemy, surprise them and then use that superior maneuverablity to get out of their weapon arcs or ouf of range if that is not possible.
    You are a fire brigade and can zip around the battlefield and lend a hand where you're needed, either with firepower, stuns or hull repair usually reseved to science ships or cruisers.
    But try to never stay in one place for too long or the hunter will become the hunted.

    -The Fleet Support ships are very much like Federation Science ships even though I imagine they were built for an entirely different purpose, they are like a combination
    AWACS
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-3_Sentry
    and Electroic Warfare units
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_EA-6B_Prowler

    searching Gorn space for intruders and providing much needed EW support to the fleet in actual combat as a "force multiplier".

    -Carriers, well I think there are other far more suited to writing more about them.

    -I also have had no chance to test the new Flight Deck Cruisers to write lits about them.

    *EDIT: Oh and there's the ship tier chart that is always a good way to get a general feeling and good overview about the different configs available

    http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=219044
    *
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    whats been said about BOP's and Raptors pretty much covers them. KDF Battlecruisers on the other hand and designed to be used very aggressivly. They have a very high tur rate, and the ability to mount Cannons. A well handled Battle Cruiser is very capable of swatting fed escorts out of existance, and are a ship that can be used by a Science captain even though Bridge Officer and Consoles are set up much like any Federation cruisers.. One of my favorite configuration for fighting the Borg uses a Vor'cha refit and carries 4 dual heavy cannon forward, massive amounts of extra armor console and a single RCS console to enhance mauverability. Aft I carry 3 beam arrays and a torpedo launcher. The whole job of this ship and all KDF battle cruisers is to go deep into harms ways, project massive amounts of firepower onto a target and keep doing it again and again and again. They are quite capable of compeating with any escort type ship for raw DPS out put, with the only advantages the Escorts having is the TAC bridge officer lay outs. In the hands of an ENG captain Battle cruiser are just very tough and hard hitting, With a TAC they become very hard hitting, but looses the ability to heal other ships to a certain extent. With a SCI that have the ability to disrupt other ships special abilities. The differences are subtle, but the Battle Cruisers are quite capable of dishing it out no matter the class of captain commanding them.

    A well Handled KDF Battle Cruiser takes the heat in a battle group allowing the Raptors, Birds of Prey, Gorn, Nausican, and Orion ships to do thier job in relitive quiet. They are not nessesarily the Tanks of the KDF lineup though they can be. The T-5 refit Vor'cha is a bit of a Hybrid, while the T-5 Neg'var is definatly a Tank and fills the role of more traditional Cruisers.

    The remaining KDF "Big Ship" the Carriers are the core of a Battle group, providing support to thier pets so thier pets con do the job they are ment for which is rapidly killing enemy ships. The Carriers role can change from battle to battle depending on the mix of pets they carry. Running the gamult from pruividng the primary offensive punch, to massive support and repair or other ships of the group.

    Above all, KDF ships require a certain mental flexibility on the part of thier captains, who need to be always ready to reconfigure thier ships to suit the battle at hand.

    The Skills tree revamp that will be hitting Tribble possibly this week may very well prove to be a massive boon to the KDF which by its more general nature will allow KDF players even greater flexibility to leverage the strengths of thier ship.

    Welcome to the KDF. Our ships are the ships of warriors.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    What is the purpose for these ships?
    Their purpose is to destroy Federation Ships.
    Is the Neg'Vhar like the star cruiser? Is the seige destroyer like the defiant? the prometheus? advanced or fleet escort? etc, etc.
    Hope this helps.
    • Battle Cruiser - Battle = Cruiser
      • Negh'Var = Exploration Cruiser (BO Slot wise)
      • Vor'cha = Assault Cruiser
      • Marauder (Orion T5 Ship) = Star Cruiser
    • Raptor = Escort (All Tiers)
      • T5 Raptor = T5 Defiant
      • Gurumba = Nothing (Fed at least)
    • Bird of Preys = Unique To KDF
      • All Tiers are short 1 BO slot -{In Trade off For}- Universal BO Slots
    • Carriers = Nothing (Feds don't have them)
      • Vo'Quv = the original KDF Sci Ship
      • Karfri* = Cruiser/Carrier Mix
    • Varanus = The Newer Sci Ship for the KDF
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    The bop might have the worst shields and hull in the game, and the least BO powers, having a -1 penalty in all ranks.

    But... I will never ever trade my BoP for any other ship currently in game. I love it. Infinite configurations. You can fly it like an escort, or a sci vessel, or -yes- even a cloaked heal ship. We love the BoP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Krell83 wrote:
    Their purpose is to destroy Federation Ships.
    LMAO, Qa'Pla!!
    gx4th wrote: »
    The bop might have the worst shields and hull in the game, and the least BO powers, having a -1 penalty in all ranks.

    But... I will never ever trade my BoP for any other ship currently in game. I love it. Infinite configurations. You can fly it like an escort, or a sci vessel, or -yes- even a cloaked heal ship. We love the BoP.

    A T5 with U-slot Ensign might be nice.
    But who wouldn't love the BoP?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    The purpose of Klingon Ships?

    To be the instruments of Duty, Loyalty, Honor, and Sacrifice in the Service of the Klingon Empire!

    If you are looking for "roles", you actually are approaching the issue from the wrong perspective.

    Klingon vessels are extremely adaptable and frankly do not easily fit into any sort of pre-conceived role. Take the Negh'var cruiser, for example...it is often used as a "tank", but it is adroit enough to mount and use cannons like an escort. The carrier has no Federation analogue - it is entirely unique in the "role" that it plays, and it takes a different kind of mindset to play it effectively. In the Federation, the "backbone" of the UFP tend to be cruisers...but in the KDF I would say that the BoP and perhaps the Vor'Cha specifically are the foundation upon which the KDF is built. KDF Ships are nimble, fast-moving, hard striking. They typically can't take a lot of damage (exceptions would be the Carriers, the T5 Orion cruiser, and possibly the Negh'Var).

    KDF Ships are unique in that your playstyle can define what "role" you want to be. This is especially true of the BoP. To be candid...a Sci officer in a BoP that knows what he or she is doing is a terror to behold. They can be absolutely devastating under the right circumstances.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Roach wrote: »

    Raptors are the KDF weaker cousin of the fed escort.
    The Garumba is the better raptor.

    .

    But does the Garumba benefit from all those points you spent on the Raptor class ships?

    Looking at the description, it reads like it should be a Cruiser, and even the BO slots are not particularly friendly towards a Tactical background.

    Seems like Cryptic could spend some time fleshing out the KDF ships a little more to open up options for those who enjoy the Raptor class, but don't want to have to respec as a Cruiser or fly that ugly lion fish around. There really are no good options once you reach level cap for a captain on the Raptor/Escort career path, other than sticking with the Heavy Raptor.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    I started a klingon on Holodeck. I looked at a chart of what klingon ships there are, after you get out of the initial BoP and hit commander, and going on up. I just...don't...GET IT! What is the purpose for these ships? What roles do they fill? I saw that Raptors seem to be like escorts, and battlecruisers seem to be like cruisers, but what are BoPs? They have ALL universal slots? Are they whatever you want? And then theres this seige destroyer and the carriers, and a support vessel (which looks really cool and I want to fly it), Can someone lay it out in terms a simple minded fed, used to three neat categories, can understand? Is the Neg'Vhar like the star cruiser? Is the seige destroyer like the defiant? the prometheus? advanced or fleet escort? etc, etc.

    Lay it out in terms of The Federation, okay.

    Specifically. BoPs I've seen generally used best as ambush escort/science vessel hybrids. Slot a Commander Tactical officer, a Lieutenant Commander Science officer with PSW or TBR and go crazy. Treat the BoP like a MVAE that can battle cloak and take less of a beating and you'll do fine.

    The Siege Destroyer is a fleet escort with a weird special ability.

    There are no federation equivalents to the two carriers in game. They both have innate subsystem targeting like a science vessel, they both use fighters to supplement their DPS, and the Voqov's turn rate will make you long for the agility of the Galaxy-R.

    The Gorn Support Vessel is a Deep Space Science Vessel with a useless special ability.
    But does the Garumba benefit from all those points you spent on the Raptor class ships?

    Looking at the description, it reads like it should be a Cruiser, and even the BO slots are not particularly friendly towards a Tactical background.

    Seems like Cryptic could spend some time fleshing out the KDF ships a little more to open up options for those who enjoy the Raptor class, but don't want to have to respec as a Cruiser or fly that ugly lion fish around. There really are no good options once you reach level cap for a captain on the Raptor/Escort career path, other than sticking with the Heavy Raptor.

    On the current skill tree the Guramba does benefit from all lower rank Raptor skills. This point will become moot pretty quick though as they are testing out a skill tree revamp that will eliminate all ship specific and energy specific skills.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    But does the Garumba benefit from all those points you spent on the Raptor class ships?

    Looking at the description, it reads like it should be a Cruiser, and even the BO slots are not particularly friendly towards a Tactical background.

    Seems like Cryptic could spend some time fleshing out the KDF ships a little more to open up options for those who enjoy the Raptor class, but don't want to have to respec as a Cruiser or fly that ugly lion fish around. There really are no good options once you reach level cap for a captain on the Raptor/Escort career path, other than sticking with the Heavy Raptor.

    True, the Qin needs love and there have been threads on the subject.
    As far as I know the Garumba benefits from SP put into the Raptor skills for the time being.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2011
    Jermbot wrote: »

    There are no federation equivalents to the two carriers in game. They both have innate subsystem targeting like a science vessel, they both use fighters to supplement their DPS, and the Voqov's turn rate will make you long for the agility of the Galaxy-R.

    Well, i fly a Kar-Fi, & it doesn't have any subsystem targeting.
    The Kar-Fi is a cross between a sci ship & a raptor, & turns about like a cruiser. setup correctly, it's the ultimate DPS cruiser.
    Boff setup is unlike anything else in the game
    It has a Cmdr & Ens Sci slots
    Ltc & Lt tac slots
    & a Lt Eng slot.
    It has strong shields, but hull like an escort.
    2 types of pets, fighters that kamikaze your opponent and frigates.
    The Frigate pets specialize in annoying your opponent, with Chron torps, Tricobalt mines & Aceton field.
    IMHO, one of the funnest ships in the game.
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