I wanna see this "fully support" when run any space combat became impossible due the lack os skill of the players,a well common issue among the majority of players around,or stupid people trying to ruin the game.
They removed the friendly fire from plasma granade fire and other things to make ground combat more agressive and fast,now they will put that TRIBBLE on space ?amazing,how the hell scorts will dps at close range if they gonna be killed by their own weapons.This change only gonna make players chose more and more quantum torps and nothing more.
what next ?if somebody get in the way of a high yeld salvo im gonna hit them?thats stupid.
doesnt work in any mmo.
The "multplayer" gameplay here is a joke and doing friendly fire an option only gonna make this worst.
Thing is, PvP is way too hectic as it is, people fight in balls and mob up and with friendly damaging explosions going off everywhere, players are going to be popping left and right. This could affect the pacing of the PvP in a negative way.
I'm a PVE'r, and I opposed this from the beginning.
You think it's bad in PvP? Ever tried firing a tricobalt at an NPC ship? They don't have human delay, and will shoot the damned thing before it leaves your launcher.
They have destroyed any use of targetable torpedoes.
You first need to draw some aggro from the NPCs, then they usually don't intercept. Though i sometimse have the impression torps can intercept heavy torps somewhat automatically.
If they are using BFAW, well, then you're out of luck.
I wanna see this "fully support" when run any space combat became impossible due the lack os skill of the players,a well common issue among the majority of players around,or stupid people trying to ruin the game.
They removed the friendly fire from plasma granade fire and other things to make ground combat more agressive and fast,now they will put that TRIBBLE on space ?amazing,how the hell scorts will dps at close range if they gonna be killed by their own weapons.This change only gonna make players chose more and more quantum torps and nothing more.
what next ?if somebody get in the way of a high yeld salvo im gonna hit them?thats stupid.
doesnt work in any mmo.
The "multplayer" gameplay here is a joke and doing friendly fire an option only gonna make this worst.
Next step is friendly fire from beams. Good luck sorting that out.
Mines yes - yup they are big area effect weapons...
tricobalts yes - ditto, maybe also 'Pengs
torpedo's no - nope that will just nerf them for the PVP community and frankly make some PvE utilisation very limited
torepdo spread yes - as mines really, the whole idea is to blow things up in an area.
I don't think it needs a PvPer to understand the griefing potential of friendly fire.
You first need to draw some aggro from the NPCs, then they usually don't intercept. Though i sometimse have the impression torps can intercept heavy torps somewhat automatically.
If they are using BFAW, well, then you're out of luck.
Next step is friendly fire from beams. Good luck sorting that out.
Lets go a bit further,the impact from regular torpedoes should deal dmg to anything around the target also,if "realism" is a priority...
This gonna ruin any chance to improve the teamplay in space combat and put some real "raid" mechanics to increase dificulty specialy in end game encounters.
Lets go a bit further,the impact from regular torpedoes should deal dmg to anything around the target also,if "realism" is a priority...
This gonna ruin any chance to improve the teamplay in space combat and put some real "raid" mechanics to increase dificulty specialy in end game encounters.
I think if they do add this then they need also to create a miopic zone for them if they are set to autofire, in which torps will not fire...otherwise you will end up fragging yourself
The mines would need to be very carefully thought through, there are people that just love to spam mines left right and center and fill the screen up with them.
Maybe the rift could be altered to an EMP-like effect?
Anything within the AoE looses some power from one subsystem for a few seconds.
Or maybe they just let things as they are right now.
Dps with a scort is just a hell cus space combat dont have any specific tank mechanics,the "aggro" here is totally linked with the dmg output,more dmg you cause more aggro you have,and i can only tank using my tac cruiser and fire everthing i have to keep the party scorts safe.Let's see how its gonna be whe they TRIBBLE the TCDs and mines(i really dont care a **** about mines and so,but im concerned about the change,this NEVER gonna work on a MMO enviroment,this is not a shooter game,this is a MMO,and you have youre suppose to play along many other players,imagine if the devs change how gravity well or the rift works and those AoE start to hit everthing too.....thats stupid.)
We are considering a change in the way we handle most explosions in space and would like to invite comment from the community:
Specifically, we are thinking of handling things like mines, plasma balls and tricobalt torpedoes the same way that we handle warp core breaches - that is, they affect friend and foe alike.
Note, mines would still only track hostile targets, but if a friendly target was nearby a hostile target when the mine went off, the friendly target would also take damage.
Obviously, this would have to be attendant to changes and tweaks in certain powers to ensure that there is still a usefulness in the game for all powers. This would, in fact, free us up a bit to buff some things that otherwise would be too risky to buff.
Let me play DA for a moment, I'm in the Starbase 39 fleet action, I start to pick off klingons and feds just to boost my score and take first.
Don't do anything. In fact, I can't believe we're even talking about adding friendly fire when HY torps and mines mis-fire so much.
The HY Plasma Ball (one of my faves) is a very tricky item to use. In fact, you can pretty much only deploy it at point-blank range. In crease its' speed, or give it some decent health a la B'Gers assimilation torps, and we can talk.
Why are we discssuing this anyways? Transphasic torps are a joke (still), when a simply buff to the proc and increase in DPS would handle it and Chronitons need a DPS buff as well.
its not just transphasic, everything besides the photons and quantums needs buffs. of the conventional torps, quantums do the most damage per hit and photons to the second most. were the hell is there room for everything else between that?! plasma and cronoton do less damage per hit then photons, and take longer to reload. transphasics do like half the damage!
for plasma, give it a 7 second reload and a much more damaging plasma fire, their overall dps with the proc going off should be higher then photons. then they would be useful besides just for the heavy plasma option.
cronotons i can understand having long cooldowns, i can even understand them doing less damage then photons, as long as their proc gets changed to penetrating shields COMPLETELY, 2% chance.
transphasics should probably be the weapon of choice that quantoms are now, but if cronotons are rightfully filling the shields penetrating niche, what about transphasics? according to memory alpha, this is how they worked in a novel-
"The warhead technology of the torpedoes was also revealed in the novel. It is based on generating a destructive subspace compression pulse. Upon detonation the torpedo delivers the pulse in an asymmetric superposition of multiple phase states. Shields can only block one subcomponent of the pulse. The other subcomponents deliver the majority of the pulse to the target. Every torpedo has a different transphasic configuration, generated randomly by a dissonant feedback effect to prevent the Borg from predicting the configuration of the phase states. "
hmm, how about this. every torp deals random damage, anywhere from slightly less that a photon to more then a quantom. also a random shield bleed %, anywhere between 10% to 50%. so with it you might get lucky with a torp attack hits harder then a quantum, or not.
they could even add a dominion torp to the game, i dout the dominion uses off the shelf starfleet quantum torps. maybe it could have the old cronoton slowdown proc.
Yay,the tricobalts and mines are set back to what they are and you cant hit your self anymore.
A good decision among so much incoming TRIBBLE...
yeah too bad they didn't listen to the overwhelming outpouring of feedback that told them this was a bad idea before they implemented it and pushed it to tribble, then pushed it to redshirt amongst more adversarial feedback, then pushed it to Holodeck. Seems like business as usual at Cryptic when it comes to anything that effects pvp. Listening to feedback upon announcement of the idea would have saved them a lot of trouble and extra work.
please do this. It will make players have to think out when to fire torps and drop mines before blindly using them as well as make hull tanking even more importiant!
please do this. It will make players have to think out when to fire torps and drop mines before blindly using them as well as make hull tanking even more importiant!
It doesn't works,this is a MMO,not a damn shooter.We already have to care about mob skills,we don't need to deal with the possibility to die to our own weapons,unless it make part of the encounter.
Next step is put friendly fire on all scie aoes and also fo the eject warp plasma if "realism" is the name of the game...
I absolutely agree, there's too many "magic" effects in the game as it is. Area and environmental effects should affect friend and foe alike (unless there's a sensible reason it shouldn't).
On a related note, glad to see you consulting the players for something like this. Well done, indeed.
It doesn't works,this is a MMO,not a damn shooter.We already have to care about mob skills,we don't need to deal with the possibility to die to our own weapons,unless it make part of the encounter.
Next step is put friendly fire on all scie aoes and also fo the eject warp plasma if "realism" is the name of the game...
I absolutely WOULD make all AOEs capable of friendly fire. Anything to make us THINK about what we're doing, rather than mindlessly pressing buttons.
There is a potential form of abuse regarding this change which makes me against it.
Exactly. Friendly fire sounds great on paper when you think about the tactical nature of it, but it becomes a terrible idea when you remember that many people on the internet find amusement in causing trouble and grief. Players find enough ways to annoy other players without handing them a mechanic tailor made for it.
I still find it shocking that MMOs devs need to actually be told that. Its just a given.
We are considering a change in the way we handle most explosions in space and would like to invite comment from the community:
Specifically, we are thinking of handling things like mines, plasma balls and tricobalt torpedoes the same way that we handle warp core breaches - that is, they affect friend and foe alike.
Note, mines would still only track hostile targets, but if a friendly target was nearby a hostile target when the mine went off, the friendly target would also take damage.
Obviously, this would have to be attendant to changes and tweaks in certain powers to ensure that there is still a usefulness in the game for all powers. This would, in fact, free us up a bit to buff some things that otherwise would be too risky to buff.
This sounds highly plausible, Cryptic. I appreciate your journey into making the battlefield more realistic. While you're at it, may I also add the following to your proposed changes:
Deep space flights sometimes make crewmen unstable (a la Gary Mitchell). Therefore, add a mechanic where a ships phasers sometimes just fire at a random target, or not all. Perhaps a coolant leak, drove the poor boff mad.
Speaking of crewmen, anytime the captain flies into combat against three or more ships and fires first, introduce a mechanic where the crew mutinies. This manifests itself in the Crew statistic on a player's ship attritting itself and refusing to activate Tactical, Science, and Engineering teams.
Holographic constructs are kinda loopy as well, as Moriarity aboard Enterprise-D can show you. Therefore offer a change that allows a Science Captain's Photonic Fleet a 90% / 60% / 30% chance (depending on player Skill Rank) to shoot at the player's and/or allied ships in an attempt to become free entities.
Tactical officers are always supercharging things, and this can get dangerous. Therefore, introduce a mechanic that could potentially allow HYT to detonate in the tubes prior to firing, taking the torpedoes entirely offline and causing minor kinetic damage.
Introduce real collision mechanics with space debris (becasue as we all know, Navigational deflectors are for shootin' Really Big SFX Gunz, not deflecting navigational hazards).
Hey, nobody's perfect; not even Starfleet. So lets be realistic as ships try to target through atmospheres, account for starship velocity and vector, and account for destructive capability without decompressing the area around players and allies on ship/station maps, and sometimes...less the higher the Engineer skill...have Orbital Strike slam right onto the Away Team for an automatic Crit (due to sheer surprise) instead of opponents.
The Fleet Support Ability sometimes calls in vessels of the enemy faction (SOS doesn't discriminate).
Emergency Power to Shields increases a starship's energy signature briefly, increasing the aggro range of ships on space maps by a factor of ten.
This sounds highly plausible, Cryptic. I appreciate your journey into making the battlefield more realistic. While you're at it, may I also add the following to your proposed changes:
Deep space flights sometimes make crewmen unstable (a la Gary Mitchell). Therefore, add a mechanic where a ships phasers sometimes just fire at a random target, or not all. Perhaps a coolant leak, drove the poor boff mad.
Speaking of crewmen, anytime the captain flies into combat against three or more ships and fires first, introduce a mechanic where the crew mutinies. This manifests itself in the Crew statistic on a player's ship attritting itself and refusing to activate Tactical, Science, and Engineering teams.
Holographic constructs are kinda loopy as well, as Moriarity aboard Enterprise-D can show you. Therefore offer a change that allows a Science Captain's Photonic Fleet a 90% / 60% / 30% chance (depending on player Skill Rank) to shoot at the player's and/or allied ships in an attempt to become free entities.
Tactical officers are always supercharging things, and this can get dangerous. Therefore, introduce a mechanic that could potentially allow HYT to detonate in the tubes prior to firing, taking the torpedoes entirely offline and causing minor kinetic damage.
Introduce real collision mechanics with space debris (becasue as we all know, Navigational deflectors are for shootin' Really Big SFX Gunz, not deflecting navigational hazards).
Hey, nobody's perfect; not even Starfleet. So lets be realistic as ships try to target through atmospheres, account for starship velocity and vector, and account for destructive capability without decompressing the area around players and allies on ship/station maps, and sometimes...less the higher the Engineer skill...have Orbital Strike slam right onto the Away Team for an automatic Crit (due to sheer surprise) instead of opponents.
The Fleet Support Ability sometimes calls in vessels of the enemy faction (SOS doesn't discriminate).
Emergency Power to Shields increases a starship's energy signature briefly, increasing the aggro range of ships on space maps by a factor of ten.
Too late! As already mentioned, the change was released over a week ago and already a change was made to the change because IT DIDN'T WORK, much like what most of the entire community told them.
It's already been changed and loaded onto tribble.
Yep and I remember a ton of people abusing it. My god bored people are so easy to predict as are micro managements and really bad ideas. This is one of them because of the potential for abuse that almost everyone overlooks and doesn't think about fully. Hence why I hope they realize oh lets put friendly fire in an already boring MMO and see what happens...
a ton of reports and more threads on this very topic. Which is why i call this a REALLY STUPID ASININE idea. But not the worst bad idea in the history of bad ideas. The Governments of mankind take the cake as do the banks back in 07 and 08.
Yep and I remember a ton of people abusing it. My god bored people are so easy to predict as are micro managements and really bad ideas. This is one of them because of the potential for abuse that almost everyone overlooks and doesn't think about fully. Hence why I hope they realize oh lets put friendly fire in an already boring MMO and see what happens...
a ton of reports and more threads on this very topic. Which is why i call this a REALLY STUPID ASININE idea. But not the worst bad idea in the history of bad ideas. The Governments of mankind take the cake as do the banks back in 07 and 08.
the PLAYERS didn't overlook it. the DEVS clearly did, especially in light of the amount of negative feedback given the change when it was proposed.
Comments
They removed the friendly fire from plasma granade fire and other things to make ground combat more agressive and fast,now they will put that TRIBBLE on space ?amazing,how the hell scorts will dps at close range if they gonna be killed by their own weapons.This change only gonna make players chose more and more quantum torps and nothing more.
what next ?if somebody get in the way of a high yeld salvo im gonna hit them?thats stupid.
doesnt work in any mmo.
The "multplayer" gameplay here is a joke and doing friendly fire an option only gonna make this worst.
You first need to draw some aggro from the NPCs, then they usually don't intercept. Though i sometimse have the impression torps can intercept heavy torps somewhat automatically.
If they are using BFAW, well, then you're out of luck.
Next step is friendly fire from beams. Good luck sorting that out.
tricobalts yes - ditto, maybe also 'Pengs
torpedo's no - nope that will just nerf them for the PVP community and frankly make some PvE utilisation very limited
torepdo spread yes - as mines really, the whole idea is to blow things up in an area.
maybe also tie it to difficulty level?
This gonna ruin any chance to improve the teamplay in space combat and put some real "raid" mechanics to increase dificulty specialy in end game encounters.
I think if they do add this then they need also to create a miopic zone for them if they are set to autofire, in which torps will not fire...otherwise you will end up fragging yourself
Anything within the AoE looses some power from one subsystem for a few seconds.
Dps with a scort is just a hell cus space combat dont have any specific tank mechanics,the "aggro" here is totally linked with the dmg output,more dmg you cause more aggro you have,and i can only tank using my tac cruiser and fire everthing i have to keep the party scorts safe.Let's see how its gonna be whe they TRIBBLE the TCDs and mines(i really dont care a **** about mines and so,but im concerned about the change,this NEVER gonna work on a MMO enviroment,this is not a shooter game,this is a MMO,and you have youre suppose to play along many other players,imagine if the devs change how gravity well or the rift works and those AoE start to hit everthing too.....thats stupid.)
Pretty much thinking along these lines...
Probably would prove more of a PITA than it would be worth, IMOHPO...
And how about instead of spending time revamping every, little thing in the game, you guys focus on actually creating new missions to play?
Just a thought...
I totally agree with that.
Let me play DA for a moment, I'm in the Starbase 39 fleet action, I start to pick off klingons and feds just to boost my score and take first.
The HY Plasma Ball (one of my faves) is a very tricky item to use. In fact, you can pretty much only deploy it at point-blank range. In crease its' speed, or give it some decent health a la B'Gers assimilation torps, and we can talk.
Why are we discssuing this anyways? Transphasic torps are a joke (still), when a simply buff to the proc and increase in DPS would handle it and Chronitons need a DPS buff as well.
for plasma, give it a 7 second reload and a much more damaging plasma fire, their overall dps with the proc going off should be higher then photons. then they would be useful besides just for the heavy plasma option.
cronotons i can understand having long cooldowns, i can even understand them doing less damage then photons, as long as their proc gets changed to penetrating shields COMPLETELY, 2% chance.
transphasics should probably be the weapon of choice that quantoms are now, but if cronotons are rightfully filling the shields penetrating niche, what about transphasics? according to memory alpha, this is how they worked in a novel-
"The warhead technology of the torpedoes was also revealed in the novel. It is based on generating a destructive subspace compression pulse. Upon detonation the torpedo delivers the pulse in an asymmetric superposition of multiple phase states. Shields can only block one subcomponent of the pulse. The other subcomponents deliver the majority of the pulse to the target. Every torpedo has a different transphasic configuration, generated randomly by a dissonant feedback effect to prevent the Borg from predicting the configuration of the phase states. "
hmm, how about this. every torp deals random damage, anywhere from slightly less that a photon to more then a quantom. also a random shield bleed %, anywhere between 10% to 50%. so with it you might get lucky with a torp attack hits harder then a quantum, or not.
they could even add a dominion torp to the game, i dout the dominion uses off the shelf starfleet quantum torps. maybe it could have the old cronoton slowdown proc.
A good decision among so much incoming TRIBBLE...
yeah too bad they didn't listen to the overwhelming outpouring of feedback that told them this was a bad idea before they implemented it and pushed it to tribble, then pushed it to redshirt amongst more adversarial feedback, then pushed it to Holodeck. Seems like business as usual at Cryptic when it comes to anything that effects pvp. Listening to feedback upon announcement of the idea would have saved them a lot of trouble and extra work.
Next step is put friendly fire on all scie aoes and also fo the eject warp plasma if "realism" is the name of the game...
On a related note, glad to see you consulting the players for something like this. Well done, indeed.
I absolutely WOULD make all AOEs capable of friendly fire. Anything to make us THINK about what we're doing, rather than mindlessly pressing buttons.
Exactly. Friendly fire sounds great on paper when you think about the tactical nature of it, but it becomes a terrible idea when you remember that many people on the internet find amusement in causing trouble and grief. Players find enough ways to annoy other players without handing them a mechanic tailor made for it.
I still find it shocking that MMOs devs need to actually be told that. Its just a given.
It's already been changed and loaded onto tribble.
This sounds highly plausible, Cryptic. I appreciate your journey into making the battlefield more realistic. While you're at it, may I also add the following to your proposed changes:
Deep space flights sometimes make crewmen unstable (a la Gary Mitchell). Therefore, add a mechanic where a ships phasers sometimes just fire at a random target, or not all. Perhaps a coolant leak, drove the poor boff mad.
Speaking of crewmen, anytime the captain flies into combat against three or more ships and fires first, introduce a mechanic where the crew mutinies. This manifests itself in the Crew statistic on a player's ship attritting itself and refusing to activate Tactical, Science, and Engineering teams.
Holographic constructs are kinda loopy as well, as Moriarity aboard Enterprise-D can show you. Therefore offer a change that allows a Science Captain's Photonic Fleet a 90% / 60% / 30% chance (depending on player Skill Rank) to shoot at the player's and/or allied ships in an attempt to become free entities.
Tactical officers are always supercharging things, and this can get dangerous. Therefore, introduce a mechanic that could potentially allow HYT to detonate in the tubes prior to firing, taking the torpedoes entirely offline and causing minor kinetic damage.
Introduce real collision mechanics with space debris (becasue as we all know, Navigational deflectors are for shootin' Really Big SFX Gunz, not deflecting navigational hazards).
Hey, nobody's perfect; not even Starfleet. So lets be realistic as ships try to target through atmospheres, account for starship velocity and vector, and account for destructive capability without decompressing the area around players and allies on ship/station maps, and sometimes...less the higher the Engineer skill...have Orbital Strike slam right onto the Away Team for an automatic Crit (due to sheer surprise) instead of opponents.
The Fleet Support Ability sometimes calls in vessels of the enemy faction (SOS doesn't discriminate).
Emergency Power to Shields increases a starship's energy signature briefly, increasing the aggro range of ships on space maps by a factor of ten.
Too late! As already mentioned, the change was released over a week ago and already a change was made to the change because IT DIDN'T WORK, much like what most of the entire community told them.
Yep and I remember a ton of people abusing it. My god bored people are so easy to predict as are micro managements and really bad ideas. This is one of them because of the potential for abuse that almost everyone overlooks and doesn't think about fully. Hence why I hope they realize oh lets put friendly fire in an already boring MMO and see what happens...
a ton of reports and more threads on this very topic. Which is why i call this a REALLY STUPID ASININE idea. But not the worst bad idea in the history of bad ideas. The Governments of mankind take the cake as do the banks back in 07 and 08.
the PLAYERS didn't overlook it. the DEVS clearly did, especially in light of the amount of negative feedback given the change when it was proposed.