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Fix the Guramba Siege mode
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Since alot of other ships are getting fix lets look at the Guramba.
The Guramba dynamic work perfectly, Siege mode works as it name state as a siege dynamic.
When Javalin was implemented it was 1/3 more powerful than phase lance on the galaxy X.
Both ships were consider gimp by testers and players, compared to other ships its level it did not meet the standard.
The Galaxy X was buff with an extra weapon slot and boosted phaser lance to javelin potency.
No such buffs were ever given to the Guramba destroyer after its fed counter part was buff into line with other ships.
Repeated testers during beta of this ship requested over and over again to drop the -50% turn rate in siege mode. I myself did not like this suggestion, the word siege mode fit the lower turn rate, why not instead buff Siege mode with a extra shield regeneration rate. Giving the player, the option to fight like a tanky/escort with bad maneuverability or a normal escort with maneuverability.
Lets look at siege mode +10 weapon , + 5 shield, -50% turn rate, minor energy drain on opponent.
We sacrifice a engineering console for this, why when we already sacrifice a -50% turn rate when entering Siege mode.
My proposal
Siege mode, +10 weapon, +5 shields,-50% turn rate, Minor energy drain on opponent, + 22% regeneration rate on shields.
It would take 5 + turn rate console to get +50% turn rate,
If you count the -1 engineering console the guramba already has, + this -50% disadvantage .
You just gimp your self -6 engineering console by entering siege mode.
Now lets add the advantages
+10 weapons power is 1.8 consoles, +5 shield is .8 consoles, so stander siege mode has a buff of about 2.6 console which is overcome by the -6 already in place from the gimps to siege mode.
If we add 22% regeneration to this which is the equivalent of 2 regeneration consoles, we get +4.6 -6= -1.4 consoles, still a little gimp but much on the same line with other ships with javelin to compensate.
There is no need to state Javelin draw back, but if a reminder is need i will state it; While firing Javelin all other weapon stop = a neutral effect, the loss of dps from weapons is compensated by javelin but no real gain is occurred.
This ship might not get the attention so much because of its numbers but if people are will to shell out $25 let at least make it equal to other ships. I only use this ship to gimp myself because my raptor is easy mode. Plus it looks menacing .
The Guramba dynamic work perfectly, Siege mode works as it name state as a siege dynamic.
When Javalin was implemented it was 1/3 more powerful than phase lance on the galaxy X.
Both ships were consider gimp by testers and players, compared to other ships its level it did not meet the standard.
The Galaxy X was buff with an extra weapon slot and boosted phaser lance to javelin potency.
No such buffs were ever given to the Guramba destroyer after its fed counter part was buff into line with other ships.
Repeated testers during beta of this ship requested over and over again to drop the -50% turn rate in siege mode. I myself did not like this suggestion, the word siege mode fit the lower turn rate, why not instead buff Siege mode with a extra shield regeneration rate. Giving the player, the option to fight like a tanky/escort with bad maneuverability or a normal escort with maneuverability.
Lets look at siege mode +10 weapon , + 5 shield, -50% turn rate, minor energy drain on opponent.
We sacrifice a engineering console for this, why when we already sacrifice a -50% turn rate when entering Siege mode.
My proposal
Siege mode, +10 weapon, +5 shields,-50% turn rate, Minor energy drain on opponent, + 22% regeneration rate on shields.
It would take 5 + turn rate console to get +50% turn rate,
If you count the -1 engineering console the guramba already has, + this -50% disadvantage .
You just gimp your self -6 engineering console by entering siege mode.
Now lets add the advantages
+10 weapons power is 1.8 consoles, +5 shield is .8 consoles, so stander siege mode has a buff of about 2.6 console which is overcome by the -6 already in place from the gimps to siege mode.
If we add 22% regeneration to this which is the equivalent of 2 regeneration consoles, we get +4.6 -6= -1.4 consoles, still a little gimp but much on the same line with other ships with javelin to compensate.
There is no need to state Javelin draw back, but if a reminder is need i will state it; While firing Javelin all other weapon stop = a neutral effect, the loss of dps from weapons is compensated by javelin but no real gain is occurred.
This ship might not get the attention so much because of its numbers but if people are will to shell out $25 let at least make it equal to other ships. I only use this ship to gimp myself because my raptor is easy mode. Plus it looks menacing .
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But still, if they want to buff siege mode, I am all for it. I'd be happy with a shield buff, or a turn radius buff, or even the ability to continue firing my weapons during the javelin shot. I think your suggestion might be a bit much.
No but when ur tractor its very bad to be in siege mode with -10 engine power while in siege mode and -50% turn rate makes really a sitty duck. You only see me leave seige mode to drop omega and break free and leave a fight do a fast 20km loop to come around and return while in sige mode.
I mean my numbers are not accurate 100% but if you bring up the beta threads and all the feedback the community, posted at the start of this ship , it was excepted as gimped only because the Galaxy X was just as gimp at that time.
It just need a buff some where that make it worth while to be in siege mode, I only do it because I found a small nitch the Guramba can do good ( not great) which is sustained DPS in siege mode. Which the only capt that can use a grumba effectively is a Engineering captain, because u are the most targeted ship on the kdf side. In very rare situation u get to fly with another grumba and Ive only flown with another grumba that was pretty good enough to 2 x javelin people.
I give u hint how to make a better ship out of your current Guramba
Drop Beam overload for BFAW it does not share CD with javelin.
BFAw will also if timed very well a javelin will go and so willl your beams at the same time enough to take out the rest of his shields to get a javelin on bare hull.
If your fighting a someone in arena that there loosing shields do to a allies , drop APO+tact team+EPW and a javelin u will get a 25-45k hit. (very rare ) very hard to do, and only if it hits bare hull. Anything else will be a waste on a shielded opponent and just rip off facing shield and deliver a 9k hull hit if they have no Resistance buffs.
A avrge hit I get is between 12k and 18k, and will only fire on escort below 50% and cruisers below 35% but most of all they have to have facing shield down.
There is a 50% miss ratio to this javelin as well so most people who play pvp in this ship dont even use the javalin because for dps wise its not worth it a fully open up BFAW3 will do more damage in seige mode than a javelin will do, but it does but it still help for that extra burst sometime a couple sec they can get healed back to full health.
I run , 4 =2 dis/2 anti P duel beams up front and 3 single in the back
Maybe what they should do is up the over all turn rate to a bop turn rate which will give the ship a better turn rate in siege mode. Also giving the player the choice between a very agile ship and a slow turning ship.
Another thing why is a fully spec Raptor have 42k hull and I only have 40.8?
1) Make the Javelin more powerful. I mean you have to charge it up, be in Siege mode, Manage to hit with it (and it fires slowly), and you have no Cloak compared to the Galaxy X. It should be the more powerful weapon between those two.
or
2) Make the power drain more intense BUT only have it drain power while the Javelin is charging. Once it is charged then the drain stops. This could be nasty because if you syphon off a solid amount of energy even if for a few seconds you weaken the enemy's shield resistance and regeneration, their speed of movement (making them a better target once you are charged), and the damage they are dealing to you.
or
3) Make the Shield power Boost +10 to make up for the horrid Turn Rate. You could even knock 5 points off of Aux in this mode to help compensate making the ship focus harder on just tanking and firing flat out.
Really?, I always took it as a miss. I never read the logs to see this. It would mean alot because 50% of the time I miss and i have accurate trait, this explains alot.
3) I think +15 shield and +10 weapon power would be great with the -50% turn rate makes me feel like I'am sieging someone , which is how I play
to number 2 ,Right now, the drain is very small, I use to run polarons and disruptor, when BFAW was the big thing , to drain wpn power it was never really effective against any other players system. I also had tyk rift going, drain is -1 power for every hit, even with BFAW it still wasnt fast enough to do seriouse drain against a opponent that ran at least one eps console. What ever the case drain should not be the nitch for Siege mode it dosent fit the ship well in the first place, and if u up it it become op and another nitch build.
Nitch builds arnt fun because they get boring doing the same move over and over again.
It just needs a small buff somewhere !!
Hmm, interesting. I've been avoiding BFAW because I heard it was, well, not broken but there was an exploit that caused it to do massively too much single target damage. Do you know if they fixed it, I'd rather fly a sub-optimal build than be an exploiter. But on the other hand I picked up the siege destroyer originally with the intent of flying it tentacles out in siege mode as much as possible, that I've had to start flying it like a standard escort has been a disappointment.
Do you suggest a DBBx3, 1 torp launcher load up front?
Anyway, back on topic. Maybe they could find a way to adjust the siege mode so that, in addition to draining weapon energy it steals shield energy aswell. That adds to the "siege" feel and would give the kind of defensive buff you're looking for all while staying very much in theme with the ships current abilities. Ofcourse this amounts to both a defensive buff and an offensive debuff with team capability so it would be trickier to balance.
It charges by hitting people with its weapons.
As stated it must shoot to charge and Cloak is not the way of a Siege Engine. I do like the dual personality of this thing. The Nimble and deadly but somewhat more fragile normal mode and the big bad "I'm coming to GET YOU." Siege beast is awesome.
1. You can't turn while using siege mode and any smart player just moves out of your arc, that's if they don't just ignore you and laugh while your launch shot does nothing.
2. The delay between pressing the fire button an the actual lance firing and hitting someone is absurd, way to long.
3. The lance damage sucks massvely , the only way your getting a kill is if someone has nothing on them and even then torps will fire off quicker and do more damage.
Fix sugestions.
1. Siege mode should not gimp turn rate, rather make it lose -5 engines -5 aux (like MVAM modes)
2. Lance should fire off faster and do more damage in line with galaxy-x, even if you have to give siege mode a 2 minute CD.
The goomba is an otherwise solid ship, but like all KDF ships, completely inferior to its federation counterpart the fleet escort. This is due to the fact seige mode sucks and so your basically flying a fleet escort minus an engineering console.
Really i expected more from a 2000 cryptic point ship instead you get a ship thats crappier than a fleet escort which was free and costs no cryptic points.
Typical FvK imbalance and bias. Look how MVAM special turns you into a utter god with beta mode, even the other modes are decent and boost turn rate and speed. Klingon goomba special turns you into a slow moving hunk of junk.
This is a great Idia , if carriers can launch at 15k why not give siege mode the abilitie to fire at 15km. The only thing I see as a problem is cannons users loss of damage at long range what will they do at 15km =( .
Sniping with the Javelin would mean flying away to 15+ meters, and turning around while in siege mode.
The time investment would make it impossible to use when fighting solo as your enemies shields would be back up well before you got done disengaging and turning.
That patch note would work for me.
I like the 15Km range but dont forget that the javelin needs to power up thru weapon hits. So you would need to extend the range of other weapons to really make this viable and I don't see that happening.
That said the other suggestions look good:
1) Increase the turn rate while in siege mode.
2) Increase the shield regeneration rate while in siege mode.
3) Increase the damage of the javelin.
4) Allow all weapons to fire when the javelin is firing.
Here are my own suggestions.
1) Give the javelin a 30% shield penetration ability that will do direct damage to the hull.
2) Give the ship a 15% resistant buff to both energy and kinetic damage when in siege mode.
3) Remove the ridiculously long delay in firing the javelin.
So an uber buff. While I think it needs to be looked at doing what you proposed would make it unbalanced...on that note cryptic just may do it.
Thats good, but the issues with its turn rate still need to be addressed, as does its lack of significant damage (I do more damage with my Guamba's Beam Overload I than with my Siege lance more often than not). Only the carrier has a worse turnrate than the Guramba in siege mode, and I have been out turned by well built carriers with the right equipment. Something defiantly needs to be done to it, to insure the big 20 dollar gun we bought is at least sometimes useful.
Any planned counter to the Gal-X's cloak planned? I figure that would make an interesting twist in leveling the playing field. perhaps something that messes with the Gal-x's cloak.
If the Guramba cannon is getting his timer even more reduced & is doing the same damage as the spinal lance of the Galaxy-X is see something wrong whit this picture, please line up the timers so the galaxy X has the same cool-down like the Gurumba.
Fo those who don't see whats wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Galaxy-X 3 minut cool-down spinal lance VS Gurumba 20 seconds siege cannon
The same amount of damage & not the same cool-down... always found that confusing, let alone unfair.
I believe he means lowering the time it takes to fire from pressing the button. Not, the overall cooldown length of the weapon.
Turn rate and speed is everything for an escort. This is why siege mode sucks. I mean even science ships out turn it. Any opposing escort now has a nearly immobile squishy target, why would anyone want to go into seige mode?
At the very least, and this is all anyone ive talked to has asked for - can seige mode (as well as the varanus drones, marauder interceptors and Brel cloak) at least be an optional console similar to the MVAM and Rhode Island? This would be very nice for the short run to cut down on spam and at least give Klingons ships that are on par with the Fed versions. If you want to have fun with siege mode (even if its not great, it can be fun for laughs) you can put the console in. If you dont, you can put something in the lost eng console.
Siege MODE has a 20 second cool down, the SIEGE JAVELIN has a 1 minute cool down, at least mine does. and once that cool down happens, you then need to shoot something enough to charge it.
Nice something is possibly happening, although i believe its not enough.
Go look at the mvam movement stats and tell me how is thing even supposed to come close to matching that ship? both are 2000 cstore point escorts. 1 is full of win, the other is full of fail.
Perhaps actually balancing the ship before its released, instead of like 6+ months down the track just like the vanarus and the brel and almost every other kdf ship.
While MVAM / intrepids and most federation ships get released being awesome sauce from day 1, KDF ships get released being totally underpowered, then have to wait 6 months to be giving the slightest of buffs, while the devs wait for the cry of the federation pug majority that whines and then they nerf the ship back into being TRIBBLE again (carriers anyone ?)
Yet when the players who actually care about PVP balance, post how the MVAM is overpowered vs all other escorts, in tribble feedback threads and pvp forums, nothing is done.
Blatant double standards exist when it comes to federation and klingon ships, that any PVP player that plays both factions can see. If you still are unsure what im talking about then you may read my post here which outlines some of the ship imbalances between the factions.
Not even that, mate. The Feds have to pay only 1200 points for their godship.