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negh'var beams or cannons ??
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Hi All
I just hit BG1 and got myself a nice negh'var, whats your imput for weapons loadout?
At present i have on front 2x DHC 1xDBB and quantom torp and 4 turrest in the aft.
I tried a pure beam boat on my T4 and the power drain was just silly, so guys how do you KDF players kit out your T5? any builds would also be helpful
Thanks in advance for any response.
Ming
I just hit BG1 and got myself a nice negh'var, whats your imput for weapons loadout?
At present i have on front 2x DHC 1xDBB and quantom torp and 4 turrest in the aft.
I tried a pure beam boat on my T4 and the power drain was just silly, so guys how do you KDF players kit out your T5? any builds would also be helpful
Thanks in advance for any response.
Ming
Post edited by Unknown User on
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He means instead of Aux2SIF:D. But he's right if you are talking about serious team play. Cannons in this thing (not to mention the 2 wasted slots for Aux2ID) is just silly unless you are farting around.
PvP - If you want to use cannons, I'd suggest using the vorcha refit. Much better turnrate and more tactically focused.
Beams have a nice all-around coverage, while DHC + Turret configuration dishes out some serious firepower with a weak 270 degree arc. I personally use a 4 Beam + 3 DHC + 1 Tricobalt configuration on my Negh'var that seems to be a nice balance.
on my vorcha and negvar i swap between duel cannons with single cannons depending on the situation, something fed cruisers cant do. if there's a lot of escorts around single cannons all the way, but if your facing other cruisers you can easily keep them in your duel cannon arc with just 1 turn rate console and be dealing the most damage.
i suggest 2 copies of DEM II, 2 copies of EPtS2 and EPtW1, aux2struc3, ET1, TT1, CRF1, ST1 and TSS2. lots of tanking and lots of damage. your score board numbers might not be as high as a beam user, but your damage will be having more of an effect.
if your in a vorcha instead of a negvar, you lose your ET 1 so replace ST1 with HE 1, believe it or not if you keep your aux mid level or have aux batteries that's all the heals you will need. have a forward torp and use HY1 in the extra tac station. even in a cruiser you are able to drop shield facing, often your opponent wont expect you to burst like that and be slow to counter, a slow photon HY should land right around that time a hole opens up.
Front: DBB, Single Cannon X 2, Tricobalt
Rear: Turret X 4
Borg Engine
Borg Deflector
Reman Shield
Neutronium armour, EPS console, Field Generator (+35% shields) and RCS accelerator
Halon and Borg console
Prefire chamber X 3
Ensign Tactical: BO1 and CRF1
Ensign Engineering: Eng Team1
Lt Cmdr Engineering: Emergency to shields 1, Aux2ID 1, Dem2
Cmdr Engineering: Emergency to shields 1, Aux2ID 1, Dem2, RSP3
Lt Science: Science team 1, Hazard Emitters 2
It seemed pretty good, although I've yet to use it on other players. I think swapping one of the rear turrets for an array would be an improvement because the Overload could be thrown in any direction then. Also I might change Science Team for Transfer Shield Strength. ES3 instead of RSP would improve it's ability to support other ships too, at cost of self survivability, it'd probably be worth having that on the Lt Cmdr officer, and swapping the two as the situation dictates.
Sacrificing the Eng team on a Vor'cha would allow tac team, or a second overload, or HYT and a more traditional torp, probably quantum, though generally quantum's need speccing as well as anything else.
I was using this build as a tactical officer, so the cooldown was reduced for a lot of powers due to tactical initiative. But doubling up on some of the powers is still worth it.
I role 2 beam banks an array and torp fore, and 3 beams, torp aft. Works great. Weapon drain is not that bad, set to 100 and you'll do fine. If you're and Eng you've got eps and nadion. If not, cycle some power to weapons 1.
For PvE bring a high yield and FaW2. For PvP bring high yield and delta 1. And HEAL ! Heal man HEAL! More healz to the team!
Indeed, fixed. Thanks Hale.
Good to see you've come around finally. That's exactly it
So you have to choose between trying to line something up with your DHCs in front, or your beams in back, and you have a huge coverage gap between the two. That setup is giving you absolutely garbage damage. You post a lot in the PvP section about balance and changes that need to be made in the game, but you have so much to learn about this game before you have the requisite knowledge to be critical and constructive as opposed to the "crazy uncle" personality that even you joke about. This is very simple stuff.
And all of you should be engineers, and every one of you should have a copy of ES3. Maybe one of these days I'll start a thread on how to make an effective build....
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~WishStone
Before flying my Vor'Cha, I flew a Negh'Var with exactly the same weapon layout;
Fore:
2x Dual Cannons
1x Dual Beam Bank
1x Torp launcher
Aft:
2x Beam
1x Turret
1x Torp launcher or additional beam depending on situation
That gives an incredibly high dynamic range of damage, and the burst damage potential is massive. Yes it results in a gap in firing arc, but only if you're incapable of flying.
The question of turn rate is rather moot frankly. 1 turn rate console will give the Negh'Var fairly good turn, and an engineer should be more than capable of maintaining a high aux power setting due to innate engineer settings (off the top of my head, my power is something like 110 weapons, 70 shields, 60 aux). An EPS console also makes any power drain argument pretty moot, especialy for an engineer.
Beams vs Cannons is an argument of sustained DPS vs burst DPS. You can argue which is better until you're blue in the face, but they each have equal advantages and disadvantages.
Flying a Negh'Var with the above stats in PVP, I would almost always be within the top 3 highest DPS, often besting escorts and BoPs, so the argument truly is rather moot.
A Negh'Var with cannons can be far more deadly than a Negh'Var with beams, so long as you know how to fly it.
In fact, if I was a Fed, I'd prefer Klingon cruisers to be using beams simply because its easier to defend against sustained DPS than it is to defend against burst DPS.
Your damage potential isn't anything even close to massive. In fact, that is by far the worst set up out of everyone who has posted in this thread.
Why would you want to run high aux to increase turn rate? That is sooo season 1. Turn rate is tied to engine power now.
No, you ask any good PvPer and they'll all say "beams", a few outliers will suggest single cannons and/or turrets as an alternative, and absolutely nobody will suggest that you mix beams and cannons. After you fly against those PvPers and they kick your butt you wisen up.
It's not moot at all. Pugs are pathetic. I once out-damaged and out-healed a full fed team combined in a large cap-and-hold. Doesn't mean anything, except that they were horrible. When you take a build like that and compare your damage to the damage of people who actually know how to play a cruiser you'll be at the very bottom of the charts.
Burst DPS and sustained DPS from your build are both going to be measly, but no, cruisers are good at sustained DPS so that's what they should focus on. Leave burst DPS to the escorts and you get something that is complementary.
Sigh... listen up people. Cruiser piloting 101 cliff notes with attitude:
Now can the bad advice end please?
Lol, yeah I couldn't exactly ignore the truth.
Vorcha Refit is love.
It depends entirely on your playstyle and entirely on your role.
If you're the sort of person that likes to kill things yourself, wanting to kill things as quick as possible, and want to be less reliant on other players, then definitely go cannons. I guarantee you a Negh'Var with cannons will kill any ship, PVE or PVP, quicker than a Negh'Var with beams.
If you prefer playing more of a support role, then beams are best as you don't have to keep your attention locked on facing your opponent.
It is also a matter of what you chose for tactical boff abilities - that choice is largely what drives me to mix beams and cannons up front since it means I can run Beam Overload and Canon Rapid Fire - which means with my cannons and dual beam bank up front I can give a substantialy greater volley than if I were just using beams, or just using cannons.
this is all true if your part of a prebuilt team. but if your like me and like puging cap and holds, basically what ever you like flying, as long as it genuinely is effective will work fine. a lot of the builds posted wont be genuinely effective like huleybird has said.
i find solo dps/tank cruisers to be the funnest thing to fly personally, and love to get in 1v1 fights wile capping points. all my builds are made with dueling in mind, but every time i do an arena im not a whole lot of good to the team because my build isnt anything like the one in that list.
I run a pretty basic set up that has been working great in PvP "non pre mades" and is pretty boring in PvE. I'm in a Vorcha but works for any cruiser.
2 beam banks, 1 array, 1 torp
3 arrays, 1 torp
Tac team 1, delta 1
high yield 1
Power 2 Aux1, Power 2 Aux2, Eng team 3, Aux2Sif 3
Power 2 Shields 1, Power 2 shields 2, Eng team 3
Hazard 1, Transfer shields 2
This, I think, is pretty basic. I can keep my shields and aux up at all times. Letting me have a strong Aux2Sif 3, HE and Tss. While still allowing for 100 power to weapons.
I can throw a Tac team/Tss 2 on a teammate and an Aux2Sif3. Giving them good shields and good hull + resist. If needed, delta 1. Then 15 seconds and they get Aux2Sif3 and Eng team 3. All of these heals are strong and able to use on a teammate, or if I get focused, myself. The only hole here is SNB since I have no Sci team. But surprisingly it's not a huge deal, you can wait that 20 or so seconds.
So. Why beams. Well my job isn't to kill things. It's to support my team. Those BoPs need all the help they can get right?
If however the OP is not planing on doing any PvP. Then load up on Dual heavy cannons, turrets. Make use of rapid fire/scatter volley, Aux2Damp. and Power to engines 1 and 1.
You can lead the PvEr to water, but you can't make him drink
True, but the thing is, not everybody wants a cookie cutter build, they're often the most effective (there's a reason they're common), but they're also lacking individuality. It's a sign things are broken when some potentially decent builds are considered inferior for not conforming strictly to the prescribed builds common in PVP. Variety's the spice of life after all.
Also, while I agree to a extent cruisers should fill a support role in Arena as healers, that's the only time you're likely to be embroiled in one fight, in one place with all your team mates and all your enemies. PVE, Ker'rat and Cap & Hold do not work this way, and hybrid builds in those areas of the game can be intresting and often superior. In Cap & Hold my Fleet Escort can roam pretty safely tapping enemy nodes off and tank one really good player or several average ones for example, and even then, although on the face of it being able to tank with limited ability to heal in Arena may not seem too useful, it means I need less nurturing from the healers, and while not on tac officer levels, can still do decent spike damage, and often with that build. I found a similar thing when I flew the Negh'var on my KDF tac, I couldn't do as much damage as I do in a bop or raptor, but I didn't need that much looking after either.
Diversity can work sometimes.:D
Well the question is do you want to be as efficient as possible or not? If yes then there is no way around the usual cookie cutter builds because they are the most efficient. In this case beams would be the answer to the OPs question.
But this doesn't mean it is the only viable one. If you don't care how effective you are then you can also use cannons or a mix of both.
My current Negh'Var (work in progress):
Front: 1xQuant, 3xSingle Cannon Disruptor
Aft: 4xTurret Disruptor
Tac: TT, ABP
Sci: PH, TSS2
Eng: DEM3, DEM2, ET2, EPTW1
Aux2SI 2, Aux2Damp 1, EPtS1
EPtS1
Is it the most efficient? Hell no and I know it (I hear you laughing PvPers
And that there is the problem, and what I have been trying to say, because there is no one overall efficient build.
There is an efficient PVP build, an efficient PVE solo build, an efficient group PVE build, etc etc.
All of the above are also entirely dependant on other players in your group, the type of map you are playing, and other factors which can also adjust what is, or is not, efficient.
Beams may be efficient in some cases, but NOT all.
Solo PVE being the biggest difference here since, generally speaking, efficiency in PVE is:
ability to survive vs ability to kill a target as quickly as possible
Cruisers are the best ship for that, and a cruiser with beams is less efficient compared to a cruiser with cannons, or a cruiser with a mix of the two, simply because a beam boat will not kill a target as fast.
So if the OP is more interested in solo PVE, then the suggestion of going all beams is not true at all. It will hamper him, not help him.
Funny how the same thing can be said of your own build eh?
Healing setup:
Aux2SIF III
x 2 Engineering Team IIIs
Extend I
RSP I for yourself
x2 EPtS Is for yourself
Transfer Shields II
Hazard I
You have one extra ensign based on what ship youre in (orion is best for healing due to science heals)
Power:
25 to weapons (even with 100 power to weapons your damage is laughable)
50 to shields
25 to engines (bump this up on the fly if youre being sci harrassed)
100 to Aux (reaches 119 with Borg)
x3 SIF consoles
x1 Field Generator console
x2 Hazard Consoles
x1 Borg Console
Best healer in the game.
That kind of setup makes sense when you have two squishy BoPs performing hit and run attacks like the QEW setup. With a more typical setup you run the risk of bringing your team's DPS down too far to be effective. In any case, with good power management you aren't losing out on too much healing to do decent damage. If you don't want to take it from me, take it from guys like Era.
Current setup:
Fore: 1 AntiProton DC, 2 AP Cannons, 1 Photon Torp
Aft: 3 AP Turrets, 1 Photon Torp
Tactical: TT I , APD I
Engi: EPTS I, ET 2, EPTS 3, EWP 3
Engi: EPTE I, EPTW 2, ET 3
Engi: EPTW I
Sci: ST 1, HE 2
My char is Engineer and i have full Aegis set.
Been in 2 Arena match with it, finished with highest DMG done, ex-aequo for kills and highest healing done. Now it certainly is not an optimal ship but it fared well enough and was fun piloting. I just kept my Photon torp on autofiring while trying to stay in the 45 degree to use all weapons.
I might try beams tomorrow but cannons seemed not that bad.
some very intresting things to think on, thanks
so assumed I want to go all beams or beam+torp in a Negh'Var.
Any input on arrays vs dual banks?
On my lower tier cruisers I used to have one dual bank in the front to lower the energy drain from the broad side.
How would you go in a neg var? is anyone actually using broad sides of six or more arrays?
Oh, and while we are on it - wich tac console? the +beams or the +dis one? one of each or two of one kind? do they stack?