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Carrier question - Do weapon skills affect Fighters?
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I'm not normally one to take heresay all that seriously; but, I've heard this from three different people now in-game, and it's starting to make me wonder. I know the skils menu does not show it as a contributing skill; but, since I'm already on the fence weapon-wise, I figured it made sense to just ask the forums straight up:
Do disruptor skills affect To'Duj damage? What about Photon Torpedo skills?
I'm expecting no as an answer, but... like I said, best to be sure.
Do disruptor skills affect To'Duj damage? What about Photon Torpedo skills?
I'm expecting no as an answer, but... like I said, best to be sure.
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Easy way to find out!
I log my Fed toon, we open a private PvP Map - you launch your figthers (don't forget to activate combat log) and let them hammer into my shields....
Re-Skill (if you have enough tokens) and we do the same again.
Fair Enough :cool:
Character name is Tuang Li; just let me know when is a good time for you. (It doesn't have to be immediately or anything, whenever is convenient.)
Right now I'm having a hard time deciding an appropriate sample size to make a comparison. Yesterday I ran about 870 seconds worth of tests (according to the combat parser) - or about 15 minutes of combat. Then tried to compare that with the altered skills for the same length... but I don't think it worked so well because the opponents were always changing.
So my solution on Tribble is going to be to either find a Test map where you can choose what spawns, or create one and just re-fight the same enemy over and over to build up enough data.
Early tests were pretty inconclusive... on the one hand at first I was looking at a good 25% jump in DPS... but that was starting to trend downward quickly as I tested more; and then I realized I'd need more data to make the comparison valid. Sadly the char copy tool is currently down. >< which is hacking me off.
Also - if Disruptors DO have an affect, I'm going to also test for Torpedoes skill as well; since it's only logical that if one applies, both might.
I'm still going to test when I can get to tribble, just to be absolutely sure. >.>b
*I've got a super-defensive carrier build, so my sci and engineering powers have a lot of skill overlap.
I suspect the reason for the rumor is that since To'Duj count as your own damage for all intents and purposes, you could almost consider them an extension of your own weapons.
Thus - testing!
Trust me though, as soon as I can get to Tribble, I will be giving this as thorough a testing as I know how. (Really wish I'd copied this character over awhile ago, didn't expect to have a reason to though >.< Oh well!)
My method is going to be this:
Each test will last a half an hour of in-combat time.
I will not fire any ship mounted weapons, and I will set my aux to Max to maximize fighter deployment speed.
Every fight will start with no fighters deployed, and I will continue throughout the fight to keep fighters at the highest possible level.
At the end of a half an hour without disruptors specced, I will switch to a spec with disruptors, and repeat as near-exactly the same test in the same fashion.
Ideally I'll use a Foundry map that lets me respawn the exact same enemy over and over and over to control variations.
So long story short - am working on it <>.<> just need the copy tool functional yet. *grumble*
I have some stuff on Tribble I would be fine doing it with, but I have no idea how to run a parser of any sort.
That's the parser I'm using. It's fairly simple really.
Basically type /combatlog 1 when you're ready to start recording (you'll want the parser up too); then, in the parser, load the CombatLog file from STO.
What should happen is, it should log every battle as you go a long, it offers some fairly detailed results. The big thing you'll want to look at is the overall average DPS of all fights.
Once you've got one set of data (no-disruptor skill for instance), then load the log file again and it'll start a second batch - then fight again for however long it is you were planning to measure, and check the Average DPS again.
If they're rather close, it's probably safe to say there's no real effect there. If the post-Disruptor skill version is significantly up, then it's probably safe to say there's an impact. I don't know enough about stats to give you precise numbers for margins of error and whatnot, I'm just going by a general "This is high enough that I have a hard time believing it's not an effect of the skill."
That's part of why I want to run the same fight over and over again with one of the Foundry missions on Tribble, so the only differences are the ones based on random luck (which should largely average out over enough time), and the skill difference (if there is any bonus to be detected.)
But only mess around with it if you're sure you feel like it. <. .>b there's no rush or anything. Really hope this transfer thing is fixed soon regardless though >.<m this is annoying.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=185067
Enjoy.
Unfortunately in that thread there was simply alot of speculation. No concrete information was given. If we rely only on "The Tooltips say X, so X boosts Y pet" then we're going to get things wrong a fair bit as Cryptic's track record could use some work. In fact there are even comments in that thread that cast doubt on carrier pets being buffed by certain skills at all.
In that thread no one came forward to answer his doubts with facts and numbers, which is what I am asking for and I think what mistformsquirrel is wanting.
Thank you mistformsquirrel for posting the link to the parser. I cannot do so now but later on tonight if I can I will log on to my character on Tribble and to some testing. I am considering going to the first Empire Defense area and just fighting a forever swarm of those Miranda's. Hopefully -way- outleveling them will keep any number variations to a minimum. I would love to have access to the Federation Minefield fleet action but with the addition of the queue I cannot just fly in and use it as a shooting gallery, natch.
Foundry isn't going to be an option for me because for some reason that whole thing might as well be written in Greek for how much sense it all makes to me. So to the Empire Defense mission I go tonight unless anyone else has a better idea.
Edit: an idea, this plan actually sounds flawed from the get go. Won't there be a unmanagable damage variation in there anyways? Whether or not the disruptor bolts lands on sheild or hull would change it's damage a bit, right? Different resistance levels? So let's say on one pass versus a ship all my fighters get a brain and make a concentrated attack on one shield facing, drill it down, and blow through the hull in short order. Second fight, they all spread the damage out and maybe the enemy uses Emergency Power to Shields. Takes longer, more damage done against shields, and now with the shield damage resistance effects in there too. Wouldn't this skew the damage results?
Or am I over thinking this and these damage variations are why I would need to fight a huge number of ships over the course of an hour or two to get a reasonable data set....?
There will be some variance, but it ultimately won't matter because what you're really after is the total average DPS.
*edit* The big reason for needing to fight for a half an hour to an hour of time is to even out the random nature of the damage rolls. Since it's easy enough if you just try it in one fight to have one fight where your fighters dish out lots of low hits, and another fight where they roll high a lot - but when spread over more and more fights everything averages out. (I wish I were better at stats, I could explain it better; this is just my laysquirrel's understanding of how to do this kind of thing >.>)
The reason I'm concerned about different ship types is that I notice some of them have very different levels of shield and hull resistance - and while you can look at individual fights, it's best on the overall if you have a large average.
So, unless I'm misunderstanding, you should be fine so long as you're fighting the same type of ship over and over again. That said, even a variety of ships could be useful for a general trend, so long as you don't say... do nothing but frigates, then nothing but cruisers on the second set. All-the-same-type is just cleaner and makes the data most reliable basically.
Btw, not sure if this is what you meant but, you might look at already-existing Foundry missions; last I was on Tribble (fed-side I'm afraid) there were several test missions up. If someone's already made one for space Klingon side, that could be ideal. (I'm assuming you meant actually building stuff with Foundry >< if I'm wrong, my apologies!)
And thank you very much for taking the time - I really wanted to jump on this as soon as the whole idea of testing it out was brought up, and the whole no-transfer thing is driving me up the wall. >.<m
@devast8or - As PrincessKatrina says, we're mostly after numbers here. While that thread hints there may be nothing to find here* - it's best to know absolutely for sure. Much as I enjoy STO, it's documentation is often... lacking; and I have to admit to being kind of skeptical of a thread wherein the primary claim seems to be "I heard it from a dev".
I do appreciate the effort in digging it up and all - but I think it'll be best for all if we get some hard data.
I'm going to be really kind of disappointed if there's nothing to be found though.
In fact, lemee go check real fast >.>b
*edit*
Oh this is hilarious lol... I've been trying to transfer my character roughly 3 times a day since I started this project.
Tonight, on a whim, since Tribble was just updated, I tried again. It finally worked >_>b
So if you don't feel like mucking with it PrincessKatrina, I can handle it tomorrow. Feel free though if you still feel like it <^_^>m (I'm going to go see if there's a worthy test mission available still) - If nothing else we can compare data, more info is more reliable info!
*double edit*
Okay there appears to be no (reliable) test map for Klingons. I'll build one tomorrow morning then >.<m
Also if anyone else would like to give this a shot by all means, and I meant more then just mistformsquirrel. Any data I gather is good. Any other data we can gather can only make our conclusions more accurate.
I just created a (very simple) test map, called the Klingon Ship Testing Facility. You will need to set yourself to be a Reviewer as this map has no reviews yet and will not show up in the regular Community Authored section yet.
It's very bare bones, but basically: Accept the mission, go to the Kahless Expanse, talk to the Enrichment Drone. It will spawn a group of frigates. Kill them, go back to the drone, and repeat, over and over up to 16 times. I feel 16 is probably enough to get adequate information, but if after some testing I feel the number is too low I will increase it.
Warning: Only talk to the drone if you want more frigates. You can technically spawn every wave at once if you just keep talking to it; but for the purposes of this specific set of tests, you'll just want 1 wave per test.
For the purposes of accuracy remember the following -
1) You must be flying a Vo'Quv with To'Duj fighters. We can't adequately test to Kar'Fi at the same time since it would probably require Antiproton skill rather than Disruptor, and the S'kull fighters behave very differently.
2) Start every fight fresh - no fighters should be remaining from the previous test. This will keep the same relative damage curve as you add more fighters.
3) Keep your auxiliary maxed so you can keep your fighter numbers as close to maximum at all times as possible. You won't be able to keep it at a perfectly level number, but as long as you minimize the amount of time you're below-18 fighters, you should be OK.
4) Engage only one group at a time, as multiple groups will distort things by spreading damage and destroying fighters.
5) Do not fire your own weapons! While we can track To'Duj damage separately, it's just the safer bet if you engage with nothing but your fighters.
6) Make sure you clearly delineate if a test was done with Disruptors skilled or without Disruptors skilled.
7) Make certain you are set to Normal difficulty; as higher difficulty settings will impact your damage and skew numbers.
8) See upthread for the parser and info on how to use it. The number we are looking for is the overall Out DPS of your To'Duj fighters after a full round of testing roughly half an hour of combat - which I'm guesstimating should be roughly equal to one run of the map I've produced. If my map is faulty (Ie: too fast; and I'll try to sort that out before anyone else messes with it, but I know I may not manage that) - if the map is faulty, please let me know and I will add more encounters.
I felt 16 straight encounters would probably be enough, as I rarely move through fights using nothing but fighters at faster than a minute and a half to two minutes per fight, at least as memory serves.
9) Thank you for helping <^_^> while this is hardly a world-ending or game changing question overall, it's probably good to know for sure. So if you feel like helping, you have my gratitude.
Edit: Just saw your previous post so ignore this part of my post talking about Foundry.
To find the mission, you'll want to go to Review Content, rather than Community Authored (make sure you turn Reviewing Content on).
As to where STO is installed, do you have it through Steam, or just regularly installed?
In Steam it should be under Program Files/Steam/CommonApps/Star Trek Online or something similar, and then you'll want to make sure you go to Playtest, rather than Live.
If it's regularly installed the default is, I think, Program Files/Cryptic Studios/Star Trek Online. As before, make sure you go to Playtest rather than Live.
Those are the defaults, if it's a custom install >< might have to run a search
This should be done on tribble server to save respec tokens