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Heretic, or anyone, please give the B'rel a once over too
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
While you're contemplating carrier (karfi) changes, please don't forget the B'rel. The B'rel's cloak especially. There's a reason you see many more hegta captains than brel captains, and that's not just because the B'rel's something extra to pay for.
Any dev response like "it's working as intended" or "we're still looking into it even after all this time" would be appreciated.
Any dev response like "it's working as intended" or "we're still looking into it even after all this time" would be appreciated.
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The B´rel is the LG BoP, right ? You don´t have to pay anything but a ship token for it.
you get 1 free ship at Lt Gen, you pay $ or emblems for everything else.
Nobody takes the B'rel as their free ship. Cuz It's broke.
If no one takes it because it´s broke, no one pays for it.
i know for sure of only 3 pvpers that play B'rels regularly. I'm sure that there are more, but not that i ever see in an arena.
I paid good $ for The Gal X & the Excelsior, & haven't used either of them for 6 months. Because IMHO, they suck.
I won't be paying for another ship in STO.
I did, and it was awesome but I eventually switched to my Guramba because it's got a giant scary laser.
Yeah, i got the Gal-X because it has a B.F.G. , unfortunately, i only hit someone with it maybe twice a week.
I'm sad to say I did when it was first released ... now it just collects dust in the hanger bay ... never ever again.
I don't get your point. Do you mean to suggest that it doesn't need to be fixed because you don't "pay" for it;)? Also, is there something in your smilies eye;)? lol
1. I get that Cryptic attempted to correct for the B'rel's "ninja healing" when it was first implemented. The B'rel could function as a silent healer, never decloaking when casting beneficial buffs to others.
2. I want cryptic to come out and state what their purpose for today's cloak is. When you heal a cloaked B'rel, it'll light them up without shields. Hazard emitters = death warrant When you heal any other cloaked ship, they stay cloaked. Sure the beam will point you to it, but unless you bump him with shockwave or cpb or sensor scan the area, he's not targetable.
3. The Hegta's the BoP of choice right now; the B'rel's got too many strikes against it for the "enhanced battlecloak"
4. This whole thing is based on pvp. You can afk / autofire in PVE space and ground and still complete regular pve missions.
I wasn´t arguing about needed changes, I never used the ship. It´s just that sometimes I get the impression that some people think the LG/VA ships are all c-store only. That was the whole point.
Specifically, the issue with HoTs canceling the cloak (which is, unfortunately, a nightmarishly expensive in time fix to do, so we're trying to figure out when we can do it) and looking into possible improvements to its hull strength.
ehhh dude thats a regular bop you allready have that....
how about making brel cloak work like it do now and allso behave like a regular battle cloak that dont dcloak when healed just like the B'rel did in the start.... but if the brel cast a heal over time it dcloakes them for the time of the healing?
Ummm this worked fine on tribble before it was released. I guess you guys don't keep notes ?
When it comes to the B'rel. I think I would rather have some sort of stat added to it that makes it really hard to hit as opposed to buffing the hull. Same with the Defiant and Sabre. I always see those ships dodging torpedoes and energy blasts instead of absorbing them.
it would be a regular BOP with amazing turn rates
Or how about a regular battlecloak with no cooldown?
That'd get me back in the B'rel fo' sho'.
But like other say, the enhanced BC isn't what it's says. If we look at the Trek storyline, even the Prototype B'rel in "The Undiscovered County" was more advanced than this one... and i think some time has passed since then.
I would say, make it work like in the movie (stay cloaked when using abilitys and drop out for a second when launching torpedos) and all would be fine. It can deal massiv damge atm, if you use it right, but the main point of the ship, the EBC isn't really like it should be.
Feds and cryptic think that people will be healing it while it is cloaked and that is overpowered. So they made the cloak uncomprehensible. It has the lowerest hp's in the game. Of course they will be healed when it is cloaked. It still will make it hard to manage.
Also, somehow shooting torpedoes uncloaks you for 5 seconds (which is basically the reload time for shooting torps).
So now basically you are a torpedo shooting ship with no shields and the lowest hit points in the game making the EBC magically turning your ship into a flying coffin.
Just stay out of Arena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYg1lyUmXR4&feature=related
I'm sure there's a way to make the "Enhanced" battle cloak work as follow.
Identical as a battle cloak except for only 1 thing: you can fire forward torpedoes while STAYING cloaked.
That CGI Artist made it simple... make the ship flash in a translucid red (photon) or any color matching the fired torpedo type. Science Ships will handle detecting us after a few shots...
Yeah I would really love that idea yea I think the only time it should decloak more than a milisecond for a flash effect like that is when you are healing or using those boffs that give a distinct advantage which besides HY3 in certain situations not really many boffs that work well with it. I think what we seriously need tho which was talked about about in a way on the post about Doff system was prisoners of war. I think our best bet is to have a boff similar to boarding party but uses like a brain washed or unknowing prisoner of war to give us either shield modulation frequencies or codes to just shut down someones shields like in wrath of khan. I can understand some peoples worries because it needs to be balanced but we are all here for fun as well (I hope and pray very much so that is why all of us play here LOL). The only thing else I'd like to add to that idea so no one gets the wrong idea because I'm not interested in being trolled again. I would say for balance between PvE and PvP for the additional idea to that is in PvP the odds of getting caught/plans thwarted would be much higher to balance it out but I'm sure everyone could agree to this... KDF gets a working ship, and feds have a way or an extra way to get prisoners.
take care
This "5 seconds" is actually only 3 as far as I know, and I'm not sure, but I think the window you can return fire in may be smaller. I've had the "you can't do this" noise when targeting a BoP that I can still see, which with a normal battle cloak would've seen an HYT-III sailing towards them. Also, with the ability to jam sensors while cloaked, things can get even more awkward.
I think the ability "torpedo spread" could have the option to be blind fired so to speak (in much the same way as you don't need a target in ground cobat to fire), as the way things stand, if you know where a ship is, but don't have science powers or a science ship near by, you can't do squat about it which to me, seems unrealistic. It could just aim the "spread" at a space centered 8km infront or behind you. Also, I think it'd give us a reason to consider spread over HYT, which has become the "must have" torp skill, and has thus relegated spread to "hardly ever used", which leads to a lot of builds being the same offensively speaking.
It'd encourage better piloting from cloaked ships (i.e. they couldn't be lazy and just sit on your stern), and also be more realistic. Having to rely on science ships for combating cloak in general is fine, but when a ship can attack without having to decloak, this starts getting a bit awry as there are often places where you're just not going to have a science captain around all the time, Cap & Hold and Ker'rat spring immiediately to mind, and the PVP version of the Transport raids could pesent an issue as well.
Honestly, I think your posts would have more merit if you make a KDF character and actually try using this ship before knocking its need for upgrading. As for your theory on decloaking or detecting cloaked ships you do not have to be a science officer or use a science ship, any cruiser and even the multi vector has the ability to do this. As offensively speaking those torpedo skills have no bearing in PvE or PvP if the target has shields up which the way you have put in the past as "Sciencing it up" there is only one way to remove someones shields under certain conditions. Which these are you need full aux with tykens rift 3, the target cannot be able to move, which all your dish abilities are on cool down while this happens and also the target cannot have any more than 40 subsystem power to shields. So what you have been saying can be countered simply by going full power to shields or hitting evasive manuevars. So please get your facts straight before posting please.
I fly KDF at least as much as I do Starfleet, and don't do a bad job of it. I tried the B'rel out; the broken cloak is too high a price to pay for me personally, although I'll likely put my Sci captain in one when it's fixed. Having faced it as well as flown it I've actually got a better grasp of how easy or hard what it does is to counter than if I was just flying the B'rel. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about wether or not I've flown the B'rel or assume my own opinion of the B'rel is somehow ill informed because it doesn't tally with your own experience. Especially considering the following...
Although Tyken's rift could be used, it's not as your post would indicate, the only way. I've seen Tachyon Beam and Charged Particle Burst (which don't share a cooldown or require a stationary target) used by a B'rel to get rid of shields quite effectively, in my opinion it's more reliable than Tykens Rift as they attack the shield, not the power level of the shield. And with the potential for having Lt Cmdr/Cmdr sci officers, it's easier to roll them out at higher ranks and more often, tactical initiative would also help in this situation. And having aux at max for science powers is no problem for a B'rel since a cloaked B'rel has no shields and can't fire energy weapons, so you can push all energy to aux and the remainder to engines.
I'm aware that other ships/careers can detect cloak, but be good at it? I wouldn't say so, but that's a matter of opinion. Regarding what I said about torpedo spread, I was explaining an idea for how torpedo spread could be used to detect a cloaked ship, this cloaked ship would have no shields, I'm not sure where "no bearing in PVE or PVP if the target has shields up" came from, because the target's cloaked. I hope that's clearer though, sometimes I don't explain things in the best manner.
I'm going to be the adult here and take control, because I'm not gonna get in a ****ing match with you over something in a game which would show immaturity when fellow gamers act this way its uncalled for. The only thing thats going to make everyone happy between the changes people want for the b'rel and those who would fear such change is a full canon change in the game. So I will lay it out here, so in the movie this b'rel was dishing out a lot more damage than we can in the game and being its a game itself there must be balance. We can all agree it is classified as a C-Store ship. It has also been said that STO is going in a console and possibly item format for these ships so the answer is already been partially layed out on what must be done and I'm not a dev but what I have read it may be cheaper and please everyone. Ok first on the b'rel make it where all healing has to be done when decloaked (This solves the HoT and other healing as well as not being able to be healed by another player while in EBC issues and fears from opposite faction). Next thing as previous poster stated when we fire front slots/forward torpedos we get a red flash effect and keep the mines the same as they are currently and if there is a rear torpedo to decloak it for 3 seconds as well as current not healing boffs to keep most of it the same. The gain is we get a console that allows our torpedos to have a decent shield penetration which this would help big time because of the cookie cutter shielding we see in pvp and the quickness to be able to complete patrols in EBC.
Now for the counter balance if this ever went into developement is a new ship for the federation that has a torpedo instead of a console in respect to the movie of how they destroyed the b'rel with a gaseous anomalie equipment modified torpedo that could work like a console and you could interchange it with any ship you wanted to use it in. So basically if you have b'rel players like myself who do not want to have to go out of our way with some special super duper setup just to be able to use this ship like others use their favorite ships and people have a problem with that and worry about the cloaking detection this would be a simple way to appeal to that worry. The only worry I would have to make sure its perfectly balanced though is anything like the tachyon grid being able to be used in conjunction with this would then make it an unfair combination and redundant at the same time.
So FYI if the devs follow this as an idea on how to improve the b'rel nobody in their right mind could get upset KDF can use a plaque, fed side can use a plaque to if they fear the need for it. I believe it would be a willing compromise to ensure balance and also would be following canon to the letter.