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Forums > Home› Feedback› Klingon Discussion

The Bigger Insult: Defiant-R versus the MVAE

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited July 2011 in Klingon Discussion
As a Klingon player, which of these two ships bothers you the most? A cloaking escort near identical but slightly superior to the Qin Raptor because of some turning/inertia mechanics, or a science hybrid escort capable of weilding the best Bird of Prey bridge officer layouts while not suffering from the Bird of Prey's lack of fire power or fragility.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Neither..

    The Hegh'ta is still a better DPS ship than any of the Fed escorts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Jermbot wrote: »
    As a Klingon player, which of these two ships bothers you the most? A cloaking escort near identical but slightly superior to the Qin Raptor because of some turning/inertia mechanics, or a science hybrid escort capable of weilding the best Bird of Prey bridge officer layouts while not suffering from the Bird of Prey's lack of fire power or fragility.

    None of both.
    I hate the Defaint cloak for story-reasons, but for gameplay... its hard enough to come arround with new ships concepts, beeing limited because the other faction has similar stuff just limits the progess of the game.

    What I on the other hand would expect from Cryptic is some compensating; its all right adding that stuff but the fact that it makes fed-ships get simply generally better then ours sucks. A few tweaks... adding buffing the Raptor on some point, increasing the BoPs hull ect would be requiered IMO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    The raptor unless equiped with high engine and RCS modules can turn with most fed escorts and also makes it fragile. I would like either a turn axis change, maybe BC, or an all out turn buff. I would be in favor of the turn axis adjustment because it sucks default it turns better than a cruiser (somewhat) but worse then all fed escorts even the Fleet (that is the console layout it uses).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    It's not so much the ships I face in combat that make me judge how lethal they are

    It's the pilots' names above their ship names.

    Superior this and inferior that... meh. I fly a BoP simply because I enjoy goofball setups that you can't use with any other ship. Is my ship superior? hardly. It's one of the worst setups ever dreamed of. And I'm one of the worst players in all of STO.

    If I see names like Keg, or Hale, or Iceroid, or Reaper, it's not the ship they're currently flying that make me think "hey, I'd better kill this guy or else he'll kill me."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Bird of Prey's lack of firepower? Best BoF layout of a BoP? I must've missed those memos. I can't think of another ship that can decloak on top of somebody and do a PSW --> Alpha Strike --> Tricobalt combo. I've lost count of the ammount of escorts I've one-shotted like that. Sure an MVAE could try that, but you'd see it coming and buff up. And it's always good fun to hit one with Gravity Well III just as it seperates. Multi Vector becomes One Vector. "In".:cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Ebeneezergoode wrote:
    Bird of Prey's lack of firepower? Best BoF layout of a BoP? I must've missed those memos. I can't think of another ship that can decloak on top of somebody and do a PSW --> Alpha Strike --> Tricobalt combo. I've lost count of the ammount of escorts I've one-shotted like that. Sure an MVAE could try that, but you'd see it coming and buff up. And it's always good fun to hit one with Gravity Well III just as it seperates. Multi Vector becomes One Vector. "In".:cool:

    Well, that's a fair point, the BoP does still have a cloaking device. It can still ambush people, it can still be good fun.

    But yes, the BOP has one less gun than the MVAE so it has less fire power. Also, the best BOFF layouts previously unique to the BoP were always Tac Com, Science LC, anything else and you're just flying a battle cloaking escort.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Jermbot wrote: »
    Well, that's a fair point, the BoP does still have a cloaking device. It can still ambush people, it can still be good fun.

    But yes, the BOP has one less gun than the MVAE so it has less fire power. Also, the best BOFF layouts previously unique to the BoP were always Tac Com, Science LC, anything else and you're just flying a battle cloaking escort.

    One *rear* slot, which will be a 97 damage turret most likely.. The missing tac console is far more significant for damage than a single turret.. But.. As you know.. Decloak ambush gives you a 15% damage boost, which makes up for the turret/console.

    Also, that Tac/Sci Cm/LtC BOP, is able to run dual Eng Lts for some pretty nice survival skills, when combined with the 2 lower slots of the LtC Sci.

    Finally.. The most devastating ship Ive flown was a 4x DBB BOP using Shockwave - EM - FAW3 - APBeta1 - TBR3 - and full Tac buffs.. FAW is nasty enough by itself, but when combined with 7-8k TBR3 pulses = Ouch-ouch-ouch (TBR3 alone can kill an Escort or SV straight through shields, if theyre unbuffed)

    This cannot be done in a MVA
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    MelineAaele wrote: »
    One *rear* slot, which will be a 97 damage turret most likely.. The missing tac console is far more significant for damage than a single turret.. But.. As you know.. Decloak ambush gives you a 15% damage boost, which makes up for the turret/console.

    Also, that Tac/Sci Cm/LtC BOP, is able to run dual Eng Lts for some pretty nice survival skills, when combined with the 2 lower slots of the LtC Sci.

    Finally.. The most devastating ship Ive flown was a 4x DBB BOP using Shockwave - EM - FAW3 - APBeta1 - TBR3 - and full Tac buffs.. FAW is nasty enough by itself, but when combined with 7-8k TBR3 pulses = Ouch-ouch-ouch (TBR3 alone can kill an Escort or SV straight through shields, if theyre unbuffed)

    This cannot be done in a MVA

    First off, damn that sounds painful.

    And that's a fair point, I hadn't considered a science commander, tactical lieutenant commander arrangement just assuming it would be less viable than the tac commander. So awesome, there's still a niche that only the BoP can fill, at least until the Federation are given a Nova science vessel with a LtC Tac spot.

    Would this mean that the Defiant-R is the biggest insult to the KDF to date?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    MelineAaele wrote: »
    One *rear* slot, which will be a 97 damage turret most likely.. The missing tac console is far more significant for damage than a single turret.. But.. As you know.. Decloak ambush gives you a 15% damage boost, which makes up for the turret/console.

    Also, that Tac/Sci Cm/LtC BOP, is able to run dual Eng Lts for some pretty nice survival skills, when combined with the 2 lower slots of the LtC Sci.

    Finally.. The most devastating ship Ive flown was a 4x DBB BOP using Shockwave - EM - FAW3 - APBeta1 - TBR3 - and full Tac buffs.. FAW is nasty enough by itself, but when combined with 7-8k TBR3 pulses = Ouch-ouch-ouch (TBR3 alone can kill an Escort or SV straight through shields, if theyre unbuffed)

    This cannot be done in a MVA

    I'm gonna have to try that at some point, I have TBR3 but I've never thought to try it, I've never taken much damage from TBR, more annoyance than anything.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    MVAE is easy to kill, SS it and it almost takes care of itself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Aoav160 wrote: »
    MVAE is easy to kill, SS it and it almost takes care of itself.

    I've never thought of that, I'm gonna have to try it though, it sounds hilarious.:D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    MelineAaele wrote: »
    Neither..

    The Hegh'ta is still a better DPS ship than any of the Fed escorts.

    That's a funny joke!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Jermbot wrote: »
    A cloaking escort near identical but slightly superior to the Qin Raptor because of some turning/inertia mechanics

    I heard the Raptor is better than the Defiant.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Krizonar wrote:
    I heard the Raptor is better than the Defiant.

    I wouldn't say it's better, or even as good. The Defiant will out turn it (and other escorts) by quite a bit, and personally I'd like to see the little bug take a hull penalty for that advantage, but whatever...

    I will say that the raptor is a good ship, certainly not nearly the "craptor" many make it out to be.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Ebeneezergoode wrote:
    I've never thought of that, I'm gonna have to try it though, it sounds hilarious.:D

    Not my idea but it really helps.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Honestly, I've yet to face an escort that can out-duel my Hegh'ta. Battle Cloak combined with the BoP's universal slots allows for a sensational mix of survival skills and damage/disable skills that escorts simply can't match.

    I run a Sci Commander, Tac LtCom and two Sci Lts. Yes, that's right, three Scis, no Engis. I myself am a Sci.

    I use two DHCs, a DBB and a Photon torp in front, and two Arrays in back. My Tac runs BO3, HYT1 and CRF1. My alpha strike is farily complex, but quite effective. It works as follows.

    I pre-prepare BO3 and HYT (and Photonic Officer 1 if its up) and when their duration is around 10sec left, I pop out of cloak and Sensor Scan, followed by Viral Matrix 3. Then I open fire and pop CRF, which is usually enough to drain or mostly drain their shields. I tractor beam if necessary to keep their downed facing facing me. Torp comes next, and then I prepare for retaliation. Jam Sensors 1 usually takes care of that for long enough for my BO3 and HYT to recharge, along with the photon torps, and my second pass usually finishes them off. If not, VM has fully kicked in by then and I can take my time killing them with cannon fire. If I need to run, cloak is a godsend. I just pop TSS and Hazard Emitters and Evasive Maneuvers my way to safety. Rinse and repeat with my next target.

    It's a lot prettier than it sounds, and still gets the job done.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    BoP duels the Defiant-R

    Okay, first I wait for my opponent to decloak. Eventually. At some point. He'll do it eventually! Come on you freaking coward, come out of cloak! He'll come out of cloak eventually and when he does I'm gonna unload such an awesome decloak alpha strike that he won't know what hit him! TRIBBLE, I just bumped into him!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    That's a funny joke!

    Funny but true in a sense. The BoP is in a position to mix DPS with lots of science. Technically, it may be "less" DPS, but this lesser DPS is amplified by the other things a BoP can unleash, I can't think of another ship that can mount CPB-III, TB-III and PSW-III and still do an escort style alpha strike on top of this for example.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    If you want to fly your BoP like an escort, MVAM is better. If you want to fly your BoP like a science ship, any science ship is better. If you want to fly your BoP like a healer, a cruiser is better. About the only thing the BoP truly excels at above any other ship is spreading warp plasma :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    If you want to fly your BoP like an escort, MVAM is better. If you want to fly your BoP like a science ship, any science ship is better. If you want to fly your BoP like a healer, a cruiser is better. About the only thing the BoP truly excels at above any other ship is spreading warp plasma :p

    Yeah that's all well and good, but I fly my BoP like a BoP. If I come up against an escort I can out science it. If I come up against a science ship I can out shoot it. If I come up against a cruiser it's got to come back from a science enhanced alpha strike and while tough to kill, has very limited potential for fighting back.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Ebeneezergoode wrote:
    Yeah that's all well and good, but I fly my BoP like a BoP. If I come up against an escort I can out science it. If I come up against a science ship I can out shoot it. If I come up against a cruiser it's got to come back from a science enhanced alpha strike and while tough to kill, has very limited potential for fighting back.

    Yeah.. Thats my point.. A Defiant have the cloak alpha, but no stun. MVA have the stun, but no cloak.

    BOP combines the best part of both ships, while being able to out engineer a Fleet Escort

    lets recap

    Cloak lets it get close like an Defiant
    LtC Sci lets it stun like a SV
    And it can carry 2 Eng Lts on top of that

    Just need a Tac Init to avoid waiting on the (granted) limited Tac powers

    My own BOP (which Im a nub at flyin)

    3 Dhc 1 Quantum 2 Turrets
    Aegis

    TacT1 - Beta 1 - HYT 3 - CRF 3
    TB1 - PH2 - PSW1
    Epshield1 - RSP1
    Epengine1 - Asif1

    Old build

    4 DBB - 2 Chroniton

    Aegis

    PH1 - He2 psw1 tbr3
    TacT1 - Beta1 - FAW 3
    Epengine1 - RSP1
    Epshield1 - Asif1
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