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An Idea for Exclusive KDF Content.
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The Klingon Faction in STO needs more Exclusive Content.
By "Exclusive Content" I mean missions and playstylings that are different than those available to the Federation Faction. For missions I don't mean patrols or explorations, or even daily grinds... I'm talking about interesting, and captivating "episodes" like the eight oustanding Storyline missions listed here. Each worthy of a player's time and money, and unique in flavor to the KDF Faction (Check this thread for plenty more great ideas). Regarding playstylings, I'd say give us an Honor or House system, Targ Breeding, or any number of similar suggestions I've seen posted in the Klingon forums over this last year-plus.
Shared or "Agnostic" missions (such as the Featured Episodes) simply do not fill this need, nor does PvP content. Reasonings are many, but I think Katic summed it up best in this post - There's nothing unique in them to draw a player to the KDF. Further, I'd argue the KDF deserves to be more than a PvP-centric faction (and before you bring up the "They were always meant to be that way" topic, it's not true. Please read this if you don't believe me.).
Let's assume you agree with me so far, that the KDF does need this Exclusive Content. So how to get it?
In the March 15th Engineering Report dstahl says "We are currently going back to our master schedule and reworking it so that we will be able to deliver more Feature Episodes more frequently. This means more than 5 series a year and hopefully closer to 9 or 10 which would be ideal and lead to little or no downtime between new episodes."
Think about that... At five missions per series, that's 25-50 new episodes per year. The later would mean nearly having an episode a week. Fantastic, to be sure!
Here's my thought: Use some of that dev time for the KDF.
Take out just one FE. And use that effort (time/money/manpower) to make a handful of new Storyline Missions, Exclusive to the KDF. They don't have to be a singular arc. In fact, I'd rather 1 or 2 of the missions be independent vignettes, and/or pick-up where the existing missions left off, and then add a new 2-3 episode arc. However it works best to add five missions to the KDF.
The game as a whole still advances with 20-45 new faction agnostic missions that everyone can play (that, no offense, but let's face it, typically are just Fed missions that put on a fake beard and call themselves KDF playable), but then you also add five to your otherwise stagnant KDF faction, encouraging players to "come to the Dark Side" (to borrow from another IP's parlance).
Obviously, things may have changed since March, but assuming the manpower/money is already on the "master schedule", it would seem to me there should be time to make some changes as to exactly how it's allocated in the above regard, if there was community support for something like this.
I put this in the STO Discussion Forum (and not Klingon Gameplay), because I think it's important for the game as a whole. And I want to hear from "Fed-Only" players, too. Do you think if Cryptic was pouring out 20-45 missions in a year, you would feel cheated at not getting 25-50? To KDF fans, while not a cure all, would you feel this a viable step in the right direction?
What are your thoughts? Are there any other ideas for how this or another plan might work?
In closing, let me say thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you found it thought provoking (or at least not too stoopid
). Also, I know how passionate STO players of all sides can be, but please do let's try to be civil. Remember that insults and petty fighting do not make for healthy debate and don't help the KDF argument at all (not to mention it's likely to result in infractions and/or the thread getting closed down).
Cheers!
By "Exclusive Content" I mean missions and playstylings that are different than those available to the Federation Faction. For missions I don't mean patrols or explorations, or even daily grinds... I'm talking about interesting, and captivating "episodes" like the eight oustanding Storyline missions listed here. Each worthy of a player's time and money, and unique in flavor to the KDF Faction (Check this thread for plenty more great ideas). Regarding playstylings, I'd say give us an Honor or House system, Targ Breeding, or any number of similar suggestions I've seen posted in the Klingon forums over this last year-plus.
Shared or "Agnostic" missions (such as the Featured Episodes) simply do not fill this need, nor does PvP content. Reasonings are many, but I think Katic summed it up best in this post - There's nothing unique in them to draw a player to the KDF. Further, I'd argue the KDF deserves to be more than a PvP-centric faction (and before you bring up the "They were always meant to be that way" topic, it's not true. Please read this if you don't believe me.).
Let's assume you agree with me so far, that the KDF does need this Exclusive Content. So how to get it?
In the March 15th Engineering Report dstahl says "We are currently going back to our master schedule and reworking it so that we will be able to deliver more Feature Episodes more frequently. This means more than 5 series a year and hopefully closer to 9 or 10 which would be ideal and lead to little or no downtime between new episodes."
Think about that... At five missions per series, that's 25-50 new episodes per year. The later would mean nearly having an episode a week. Fantastic, to be sure!
Here's my thought: Use some of that dev time for the KDF.
Take out just one FE. And use that effort (time/money/manpower) to make a handful of new Storyline Missions, Exclusive to the KDF. They don't have to be a singular arc. In fact, I'd rather 1 or 2 of the missions be independent vignettes, and/or pick-up where the existing missions left off, and then add a new 2-3 episode arc. However it works best to add five missions to the KDF.
The game as a whole still advances with 20-45 new faction agnostic missions that everyone can play (that, no offense, but let's face it, typically are just Fed missions that put on a fake beard and call themselves KDF playable), but then you also add five to your otherwise stagnant KDF faction, encouraging players to "come to the Dark Side" (to borrow from another IP's parlance).
Obviously, things may have changed since March, but assuming the manpower/money is already on the "master schedule", it would seem to me there should be time to make some changes as to exactly how it's allocated in the above regard, if there was community support for something like this.
I put this in the STO Discussion Forum (and not Klingon Gameplay), because I think it's important for the game as a whole. And I want to hear from "Fed-Only" players, too. Do you think if Cryptic was pouring out 20-45 missions in a year, you would feel cheated at not getting 25-50? To KDF fans, while not a cure all, would you feel this a viable step in the right direction?
What are your thoughts? Are there any other ideas for how this or another plan might work?
In closing, let me say thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you found it thought provoking (or at least not too stoopid
). Also, I know how passionate STO players of all sides can be, but please do let's try to be civil. Remember that insults and petty fighting do not make for healthy debate and don't help the KDF argument at all (not to mention it's likely to result in infractions and/or the thread getting closed down).Cheers!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I'm heavily in favor of this. Cryptic maintains control of what missions get added, and the work is taken off their already crowded shoulders.
Instead of removing one FE, and in addition to picking excellent Foundry missions to special status:
In each Featured Series, pick one episode where there is a signifcant difference between the Federation and the Klingon version. Have at least one mission map differ.
Say, the Federation Captain beams down to a planet to talk with the aliens. The Klingons instead beam down to one of their ships and capture the alien leader.
In addition, provide one unique (possibly chargeable) reward for each faction that is bind-on-equip.
This is a very reasonable idea. The problem is, most gamers arent reasonable and are only concerned with the faction they play. So while some Fed players will see this as a reasonable suggestion, the majority will say "why should I have to give up 1 episode that is already playable by KDF"?
That is why I think this is the only workable solution. The reason is because the Fed players lose nothing; either missions or Dev time spent working on their content.
The only downside is I know Crpytic has said in the past, for other things, that they can't publish user-submitted material. How the exception works for the Foundry, I don't understand, but I fear there could be some kind of Rights issue (?). I don't know, honestly, but it's a concern I have. Overall though, this idea should have very little, to no, resource investment on Crpytic's part, and I like that, too.
Your wisdom is great Archancellor!
My concern though is that adding new maps, story lines/objectives, and prizes mean adding resources to the project. Probably not as much as a mission created "from scratch", but more none-the-less. Especially adding a new prize. Because then you have to worry about balance issues, and they already have hard enough time balancing any single new device to this game, now they're adding two, and they'd have to make sure the items balance against what the other faction received.
Crpytic already (chooses not to allocate)/(doesn't have) the resources to make new KDF missions. This idea, while I love it, would mean more work on Crpytic's part that isn't already on the schedule. I was trying to come up with a solution that didn't add work, only made what they had planned to do different.
So, Tranman and Mustrum, you both said "instead of" my idea try your ideas. And I like both of yours! Was there something(s) you didn't like about mine? Or why couldn't all/any of these be done in-part or combination?
Again, thanks for your thoughts. Anyone else have comments on any of the above or other ideas themselves on how to get Exclusive Content to the KDF with little-to-no extra effort on Cryptics part?
This. It's completely understandable.
One option might be to do something like a "dev's choice" category where it doesn't become "official" content, but does give standard XP and rewards. That might encourage players to use the Foundry (if there is a filter to show only dev's choice missions) and still be able to level KDF characters in a reasonable fashion via PvE.
My longtime solution was always just to shift the development of Featured Episodes around by a hare so that Klingons get an extra mission in each series or one mission in each series going forward is faction unique.
If the KDF got an extra episode, you could set it up so that each series gets a KDF exclusive "prequel", encouraging players to play KDF to get ahead on the storyline.
In turn, the alternative I could see is to set it up so that one episode in each series is completely different depending on your faction, making the Klingon version feel different, have different endings, or have the KDF approach a situation differently while coming to the same conclusion.
There have been times, here, and in other sub-forums, where I have chosen to speak in a manner designed to inspire hope and pride amongst the denizens of the Empire.
So here, in these forums, in this game, I would hope to serve as, ironically enough, a voice. A lone voice if need be, but a voice, a voice for our rights, for our desires, for our Empire.
And, of course, the two posts PatricianVetinari has linked in his sig.
I am K'Gonok, of the house of Citak, and I am a warrior in the Klingon Defense Force.
I am Nunemi, formerly of the Orion Syndicate, and I am a warrior in the Klingon Defense Force.
I am Senish, formerly of the Gorn Hegemony, and I am a warrior in the Klingon Defense Force.
..And warriors are not silenced by criticism, by threats, abuse, neglect or attack, only death can silence a warrior, and even then, those who heard him while he lived will repeat his words.
In memorium of Roach, who has fallen silent.
Featured Episodes are not KDF content, they are Faction-Neutral content. A Fed player who does the FEs on his main has zero motivation to roll a KDF toon, they've already done the FE on their Feds, as such, FEs don't help the KDF.
Foundry missions are great, they provide a means for the KDF to have it's history explored, it's culture and values expressed, etc.. But the problem for the KDF isn't just about the Storyline part of exclusive Storyline PvE, since you have to do three Foundry missions to get any XP, and the XP you do gain is less than what you can get from one mission replay, the Foundry does not help the KDF, and that's not even getting into how long some of the Foundry missions are compared to normal leveling PvE..
Then, there's the Sorties, the raids, the patrols, the dailies and hourlies, the repeatable busy-work content. Because that's what it is. It's busy work, it's the bones and scraps thrown to us in order to keep us quiet, it's the grind-fluff the KDF is forced to level with since PvP is mostly broken. They do not help the KDF because they are, like exploration missions Fed-side, grind-fests, endless repetition of the same things over and over. In fact, I would go so far as to say that they are the prime reason why the KDF has the low population it does. Nobody wants to grind.
Looks like they disagreed with you there PV.
Add KDF centered Featured Episodes to the list,part of the dev time on any FE is spent on 'touching up' existing assets or creating new ones.If they centered a FE around Klingons,Orions,Gorn,Letheans or Nausicaans......they could 'touch up' those assets without having to spend additional time and resources.
It's easy to agree getting 9 featured episodes instead of 10 is a fair price to pay for a real step towards making the KDF a viable faction. That would only leave 3 months without some new mission to convince people to re-up their sub for another 30 days. But it's harder to see this as a good idea when it would mean getting 5 featured episodes instead of 6.
They could always use some ideas from the foundry to create a string of missions...It's not that hard someone told me...to make foundry missions...and not much harder for them to make the missions into something that would be palletable for both sides... It's about time they started a KDF-centric series mission....but where is it?...behind the Cardies...bah...
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
It feels like we keep going in circles with the devs....very,very disappointing.:(
>sigh<
Don't get me wrong. I really enjoy this game. I started about 3wks after launch, and played exclusively Fed for a long time. I love my Fed characters. Heck I didn't even start my first KDF character until Sep 2010 (and he made LG by mid-Nov).
After playing Fedside for so long, the KDF was really fun! It was different and cool in ways I can't quite explain. The missions with the Fek'Ihri and Kahless, and whatnot... OUTSTANDINGLY FUN! But then they ran out. Then it was grindy grind grinderson until then end...
The FEs helped and there was some very minor Klingon spice thrown in the make them "different" from the Starfleet versions, but really... not so much. It was just doing the same mission over again with a red UI.
I really miss the experience of playing Klingon. And I wish Cryptic could make a way to bring about the glory that the KDF Faction deserves. It has such potential.
I don't mean to poo-poo on Cryptic. Again, I enjoy playing STO. I like my Feds very much. I just wish they didn't treat the KDF like second-class citizens and showed an ACTIVE display of improvement, instead of just talking about it.
It's a crying shame really...
This right here is what I am talking about.... they know we are dissatisfied so they throw a bone our way once in a long while so that anything is appreciated by our side...whether it is a good bone or not. We have been getting to a point where we want more bones thrown our way.... well considered and crafted bones.... to help our faction and imnprove RP for the KDF players.....
I want to see them actually do something to help our faction for customization for not only the ships...which apparently they are working on, but for the ground as well....I mean it's good for the Gorn but what about the normal ethnic Klingons?......
TRIBBLE bones and scraps, release some live prey (actual exclusive PvE Storyline content) for us to chase down and feast upon!
I of course was speaking metaphorically....the bones we get to have small PVE arcs and a few scattered missions could be improved easily....
The lack of finishing touches for Klingon race players such as always having dreds, clipping of the hair with the uniforms, lack of LTG sash, no further customization to look like a TOS klingon for uniforms...no look like TMP, ST:3, or ST:6 movies either...this too could be fixed, but we have been told by Stahl that KDF things do not sell well in the C-Store...well, give us something that we can actually use that we ask for...then you'll see a change in buying habits.....
But now with S4 just about to be released and with no KDF only PvE content it appears to me the KDF is not going to get the true fleshing out we had hoped for. Don't get me wrong I don't expect the KDF to ever have the same amount of content as the Feds. But I do expect more than the a small token amount we currently have.
S4 is a huge update and improvement to the game and I love what I see so far. But I hope that the dev's will take the large number of posts regarding the lack of KDF only PvE content to heart and dedicate at lest one mission per release to the KDF after the release of S4. If not we will be left with a great new ground combat update in S4 but with no enjoyable way to play it given the lack of KDF content. I say this as don't find playing the exact same mission that I have played on the Fed side (once per character three total) a fun thing to do again on my KDF characters (four total).
Season 2 was kind of Cryptic's "great experiment". They spent a ton of resources and time developing 8 awesome KDF only episodes and according to them, it made basically no difference at all in the KDF population. Unfortunately for us that means they arent going to be spending time making anymore KDF exclusive content any time soon because it didnt pay off when they tried it before.
I hate to say it, but I cant actually blame them; at least not from a business standpoint. They gave us exactly what we asked for, KDF exclusive PvE content, and it didnt do anything to increase the KDF playerbase.
You know I remember read that before but for some reason it never actually clicked until just now. Your right; they did do exactly what people have been asking them for and it accomplished nothing. People complained just as much as ever. I think that just goes to show that the KDF population is always going to be really small no matter what the Devs do.
Yes,8 great episodes,that brought the number of KDF missions up to a grand total of.....8. Isn't that half of what the Feds have? *sarcasm off* Ok,seriously.....8 missions,however awesome they are,are just not enough.We need at least 4 times that number,spread out over the ranks.
I dont disagree that it wasnt enough. My point is that it had NO effect AT ALL. Even if it wasnt enough, it still should have shown some increase in the KDF population, if that was really the solution.
A part of the problem may have been that the 8 are spread around the rank promotions, so starting a KDf toon doesn't get you those missions, you still have to grind to get to them. I doubt Storyline PvE that replaces the grind rather than necessitating it would have as little affect.
That is a valid point. So it sounds like adding anything less than the number of missions needed to completely level without grinding is wasted effort. At least, that is what Season 2 seemed to demonstrate.
get the same attention to detail the zone did. Sure the UFP will get the same treatment, but hey.
Also, part of the reason those 8 missions didn't really have an effect on population, is that missions aren't the only factor- playable races, (which the UFP still has 2X as many options as kdf), costume options, ship selection, the list goes on. The kdf is so far behind the UFP in so many categories, (and continues to fall behind) to only address one of these issues and expect the prob with pop to be solved-it's crazy.
No one said it would solve the problem. The point is that it didnt help AT ALL(as far as population goes).
But I agree, the KDF is lacking heavily, it's one of the reasons I don't bring out my KDF toon as much, and I've even gotten tired of rolling a Feddie toon to go through the same mission branches.
But I do like the idea of the Foundry Eps being elevated to a Dev's of Fan's Choice and given rewards to match a normal Ep. Or heck, I heard tell of some Fed Eps being altered for the Klingons, there's something there. Dunno what that means for the storylines. But I digress.
I'd be happy with some good PVE content tossed out so I got a reason to do something new, and yes, explore the Klingon side of the conflict. Their reactions to the Iconians playing everyone for suckers. B'Vat and his plans. All of it.
But then, the Devs haven't seemed to grasped the notion that if they put in Content, they'd GET players for the KDF.
Not so sure if the experiment could be tweaked and repeated, though. I feel like the Foundry actually carries some resistance to further KDF development, in that if we're unhappy with the status of KDF PvE, we can make our own d**n missions...