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Okay.
I went from feeling hopeful to wondering if something else is going on.
I am seeing tons of threads in other forums, and even in this forum, regarding merging the KDF and Federation factions, or both factions joining in a full alliance against the Borg, etc. etc.
Oddly enough...I see a LOT of people in favor of these ideas.....and oddly enough, very few of those people are names that I recognize as dedicated KDF players.
Furthermore...Mr. Stahl dropped a hint or two in the Priority One broadcast that some sort of KDF-Federation co-op play might just be in the works. No details -- I speculate that it could be a special mission in an episode or some such...but some Federation players are taking these statements to mean that there is either an end to the war, and an alliance soon after, or a faction merge at some point.
I know that most (probably all) of us are no more informed about what is being considered than the next guy...and I also know that is not proper to ask for a Dev response, although I do hope that a Dev might take some interest in this thread and comment.
However, perhaps if we have a serious discussion regarding these ideas amongst the dedicated KDF players, we can let our positions be known one way or another.
I will get the ball rolling on this -- I think that most folks who have read my occasional posts in the past regarding this issue know where I stand. I am not in favor of an alliance OR a faction merge, for whatever reason. I like the model behind a multi-faction game, and I think that should the factions merge, or become allies on the same side, that the game would lose an important flavor and element. I also think that should a faction merge or alliance be in the works, then you can basically kiss the Romulan faction, or any other possible future faction goodbye. Just my opinion.
So...what do you think? I know that this thread is likely to attract some of the posters in other threads that I have been seeing that are pushing this idea...and to be honest, it almost seems like there is some sort of organized effort in play to make this happen through forum influence. I certainly hope that is not the case...but there has been an awful lot of this business lately, and it is quickly becoming a regular theme.
i would like to hear from the guys who primarily play KDF -- not the Federation player that happens to have a LC Klingon that they never leveled. I want to hear from the dedicated LTGs I see in game and at Qo'nos. My instincts tell me that the idea of a faction merge is not something that the majority of dedicated KDF players want...but I still thought I would try to capture the pulse of the real KDF community on this issue.
In any case, thank you for your time. Qap'Lah!
I went from feeling hopeful to wondering if something else is going on.
I am seeing tons of threads in other forums, and even in this forum, regarding merging the KDF and Federation factions, or both factions joining in a full alliance against the Borg, etc. etc.
Oddly enough...I see a LOT of people in favor of these ideas.....and oddly enough, very few of those people are names that I recognize as dedicated KDF players.
Furthermore...Mr. Stahl dropped a hint or two in the Priority One broadcast that some sort of KDF-Federation co-op play might just be in the works. No details -- I speculate that it could be a special mission in an episode or some such...but some Federation players are taking these statements to mean that there is either an end to the war, and an alliance soon after, or a faction merge at some point.
I know that most (probably all) of us are no more informed about what is being considered than the next guy...and I also know that is not proper to ask for a Dev response, although I do hope that a Dev might take some interest in this thread and comment.
However, perhaps if we have a serious discussion regarding these ideas amongst the dedicated KDF players, we can let our positions be known one way or another.
I will get the ball rolling on this -- I think that most folks who have read my occasional posts in the past regarding this issue know where I stand. I am not in favor of an alliance OR a faction merge, for whatever reason. I like the model behind a multi-faction game, and I think that should the factions merge, or become allies on the same side, that the game would lose an important flavor and element. I also think that should a faction merge or alliance be in the works, then you can basically kiss the Romulan faction, or any other possible future faction goodbye. Just my opinion.
So...what do you think? I know that this thread is likely to attract some of the posters in other threads that I have been seeing that are pushing this idea...and to be honest, it almost seems like there is some sort of organized effort in play to make this happen through forum influence. I certainly hope that is not the case...but there has been an awful lot of this business lately, and it is quickly becoming a regular theme.
i would like to hear from the guys who primarily play KDF -- not the Federation player that happens to have a LC Klingon that they never leveled. I want to hear from the dedicated LTGs I see in game and at Qo'nos. My instincts tell me that the idea of a faction merge is not something that the majority of dedicated KDF players want...but I still thought I would try to capture the pulse of the real KDF community on this issue.
In any case, thank you for your time. Qap'Lah!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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When I read about it I simultaneously though that it ws a throwback to TOS and a dumb attempt to copy the "Alliance vs Horde" concept by turning the Klingons into "Space Orcs".
I was a real fan of the alliance between the Klingons and the Federation during TNG and the largest part of DS9.
Please note: "alliance".
I am against making the Klingon Empire an 'appendix' of the Federation.
Other games had them as allies without doing so and I enjoyed it there.
They can PvP against the Federation in the same "Wargames"-style scenarion they can now.
Future playable factions can still be antagonists IMO.
The Klingons and the Romulans would probably never become big friends and will always be busting their heads together.
I realize my point of view is probably not the most popular one but it is how I feel.
it should go no further then that.
they need to keep them separate for the eventual release of the romulans so that we will have (one day) 3x faction PVP, hopefully.
A temporary truce for STFs is ok I guess. I'm not totally thrilled with the idea to be honest, I'd rather see our faction get the attention and output from Cryptic that it deserves making the KDF more attractive to new players, win back previous subscribers, and grow on it's own without having to rely on filler teammates from the blue pill crowd.
This.......
Until that time though, no wholesale alliance or faction merger but I can see joint missions against the Borg (i.e. STFs) benefiting from allowing a temporary truce i.e. cross faction teaming. It might actually encourage some of the Federation players to come and try out the KDF, when they see us using our "toys" with them in battle.
Private PvP matches should allow cross faction teams right away, since you can already have members of the other faction on your side in a private PvP match but can't actually "team" with them for communications purposes. Shuttle Wars being a prime example, we had mixed teams but couldn't actually team up to use the "team" chat.
If by co-play you mean the Feds get our ships I'm against that. If we play the same missions I am happy with that.
But it's certainly a big topic and large enough to ecompass more than one thread so lets see if we can make this post unique by encouraging a more nuanced discussion. Based on the other posts made about this topic, I suspect the majority of people will be in favor of some degree of 'cooperative play' but opposed to an entire faction scrap so I'm going to provide a list of in game situations and it would be helpful if people mentioned whether they supported communal grouping and cooperative play here or opposed it.
STFs, nothing much to say about this, if you think your Klingon should be able to work side by side with the Federation to get "Infected" done, tell the board. I agree this would work and pretty much everyone else I've seen comment on it agrees too, this is the one section of the game that is most likely to be brought together into cooperative play and it's also likely the only thing Dstahl is talking about with vague references to faction peace given that Gozer's been working on 'fixing STF's' for a little while now.
Featured Episodes, not quite the same as an STF, mostly faction agnostic after you pick up the quest and before you turn it in. Although going this route would appear to make the developers less likely to further differentiate the featured episodes into something faction specific. So we all become less likely to get a chance to back hand the next science officer who complains that we delivered her 'nerve tonic' in a shot glass. I don't seek out people to do featured episodes with and so I'd honestly prefer to see more faction specific touches, interactions that bring home the fact that you're a member of the Nausicaan Empire and not some peace loving member of the Federation.
PVP queues, this one will be trickier as PVP is not just divided by faction, but further divided by inter- and intra- faction PVP. If they merged the PVP queue's would they get rid of all of the queue's except one? Obviously an option they considered for 'shuttle wars' but how would it hold up for serious end game play? This would be a damage to immersion for a number of players and would get rid of the play opportunities present in pitting your own factions unique strengths and weakeness against eachother. The other option would appear to be adding a fourth queue for completely random PVP, further fracturing the PVP population and lengthening queue times. While I personally think a combined KDF/Fed team taking on another combined KDF/Fed team would be fun, given the current population metrics in game we'd see, on average, 1 Klingon in a 4v4 match. Still, I'd be in favor of a fourth 'merged queue' and not in favor of there being one 'merged queue.'
Private PVP, this one appears to be another no brainer. The game lets people privately arrange PVP matches with mixed teams, so it should allow them to make mixed groups for the duration of the match.
Fleet Actions, obviously this wouldn't work in their current form without heavily editing them or heavily suspending your disbelief. I mean, I know I'm not going to join up with some Starfleet folks to repel the attack on DS9. But if they added more fleet actions against neutral or enemy factions it would be doable for those. But would there be a point to it? I wouldn't want to see them spend too much effort on it, but I wouldn't hate it if it were in the game.
Space encounters, we pretty much already see this in the borg sector so the only change would be to allow players to team up there. But given the singular nature of these encounters and the utter lack of a need to coordinate, would it be necessary to add a 'grouping up' option in there?
Social grouping in neutral territories. I can see RP uses for it and I can't see any reason to be against it. Still, clearly a low priority addition to the game.
Social grouping in non-neutral territories. Another possible addition to the game in response to a potential peace treaty. Should Starfleet be able to group up with some Klingons and have a dance party in the hall of training on Qonos? Should the KDF be able to group up with some Humans and go have a dance party on Sol Station? I'm thinking no, it would require a lot of tinkering to get it so section of space would be opened based on your group leaders faction affiliation and it would have to be that way because the other possibility, that follows as a possible result of 'peace' would be immersion damaging to me.
Opening all territory to both factions regardless of grouping. Without the addition of solid in-game system defenses I don't see how this can work. A Klingon should not be able to go do a fly by of Earth without running a serious risk or at least facing some serious suspicion. Even if they do create 'peace' between the factions, that doesn't mean Starfleet or the KDF would be amenable to a large military force joy riding through the hearts of their respective empires.
Again, I think it would be most productive for people to outline the exact extent to which they would like to see intra-faction cooperation, the exact extent to which they would accept intra-faction cooperation and the point at which it becomes too much.
Opening all territory to both factions regardless of grouping. Without the addition of solid in-game system defenses I don't see how this can work. A Klingon should not be able to go do a fly by of Earth without running a serious risk or at least facing some serious suspicion Even if they do create 'peace' between the factions, that doesn't mean Starfleet or the KDF would be amenable to a large military force joy riding through the hearts of their respective empires.[/QUOTE]
Oh, the feds are already plenty suspicious
http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/STO-amidoinitright/screenshot_2011-05-01-08-51-10.jpg
Woah, was that taken on Tribble or something? Or do I just not know of some clever trick to sneak into Fed space?
Holodeck, Gm's have mistakenly moved me to Siris sector numerous times, i just grab screenies at SOL & kill tourists(NPC's) at Risa on my way home:D (it's OK Carebears, the ones I kill respawn)
That's probably the best advice one can give. You will have a much better finding out what KDF players want by approaching them in-game. They're not really on the forums. For whatever reason.
you must not read the PVP forums
you ought to check em out, by far the best humor on these forums
EDIT~ awesome sig BTW superchum
perhaps if they had realised klingons were not going to get fleshed out sooner and had done some kind or merge before the game launched and kept the fed klingon alliance going then fine, but its been a year and a half now. no ones merging anything.
I'm hoping this will actually lead to more people wanting to play KDF, after seeing how much *** Klingons kick in STFs.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=220065
I might be interested in an alliance down the line when there are multiple factions in the game and it makes sense to have alliances. However, I don't see that time coming soon if ever.
That said, I can see where there might be some circumstances where there would be cross-faction teaming, such as an STF against a common enemy, such as the Borg. I would hope those missions would be written so that the cross-faction teaming would appear to be one of necessity given the circumstances.
One of the biggest problems I have with a merger or alliance is that I don't think it encourages new content for Klingons. I like the Featured Episodes, but I feel that many of those are written from a Federation point of view and then altered to make sense for a Klingon. That is fine in some circumstances, but it feels forced in others. Another example: the journey into fluidic space to attempt to make contact with the Undine. J'mpok and the HIgh Council apparently lose their mind and decide to pursue peace and an alliance with the Undine against the Federation, nevermind that it was infiltration of the Undine into the Gorn that sparked this whole war to begin with.
What I'm getting at is that I think an alliance or merger would encourage more Federation driven stories that might be adapted for Klingons, but no true Klingon stories such as those we saw in Season 2.
The only thing that has been confirmed is crossfaction teaming for the STF's. Crossfaction teaming works for those missions where you battle a common (and
Give us Capes?
That would be a first step in the right direction.:p
How's this for an idea:
Merge the Federation and the Empire under the auspice of cooperation against the Undine threat (such as it is). Have a couple instances where the story unfolds (maybe as a Featured Episode, told from a joint perspective). This would also open up all the Federation PvE content to the Klingons for a while*.
During this time, the development team could work on fleshing out the Klingons (and the new faction *cough* Romulans *cough*). This would open up the opportunity to incorporate more PvE content (and maybe change / modify the existing Federation content for the new war) or even set up the consensual PvP zones (which could be used to further the war effort, establish diplomatic ties, expand the Federation / Empire, or set up a way to incorporate the next "truce") with PvP (not PvE) missions.
A truce could be a good thing.
*Grabs a mug of hot cocoa and a flame retardant suit*
-Auspice
* This would also open up the Klingon content for the Federation. This would also help those who enjoy accolades to fill out their logs. Of course, this could also open up new accolades for both factions that could be "unique" when the factions go to war again.
Does everyone else want Federation content just for the sake of having content? I want Klingon content. I don't believe they would merge the two factions and then focus on making new Klingon content or completing the Romulan faction. They'd go right on make Federation content. They can't stop making Federation content. Furthermore, merging the two factions probably isn't as easy as flipping a switch. I have no proof, but I suspect that'd be a season unto itself. Then you would have to unmerge them at some point.
I'm not in favor of any type of merger of the factions. If players want Klingon achievements, they can create a Klingon character and come get them that way.
No, everyone does not want Federation content just for the sake of having content. I want actual Klingon content, with an actual Klingon perspective. I believe (note, *I* BELIEVE) most people playing Klingons would want the same.
I don't believe they'd work on content for the Klingons if there were a merger. (Of course, I don't BELIEVE they will ever have another full faction with full content; at best, I believe there will be another faction with access [ACCESS] to the content already in game [FEs, etc.] and have that called "good." Of course, I'm extremely pessimistic and may be on my way to curmudgeon.)
Now, I will say, I sure do want to take on the Doomsday Device on my Klingon. Id like it to be an actual Klingon mission, but Id sure take (in a heartbeat) the chance to run the current one.
Now, do you believe that there is going to be a large influx of Klingon (actual Klingon-oriented) content? How about faction-specific content for the new faction?
Do you truly believe this idea is so bad that it shouldnt even warrant discussion? (Of course, if you do, Id sure like to know why.)
-Auspice
Would I be fine with a cooperative "cross-faction" teaming? Yes, particularly in STFs, where it would make sense.
The Klingons and Federation have had periods of hostility followed by some semblance of peace. I don't see a problem with letting us team up and work together against a common enemy, but I would draw the line there. There still needs to be Federation-specific missions for the "blue" team and Klingon-specific missions for the "red" team.
Hell, I'd be happy with letting the KDF play through Fed missions, but with enough changes to make it feel almost different.
We have capes now. Well.... sort of. The 500 day vet has what I feel is a cape option.
I am pretty certain that the devs only mean to have KDF and Fed Co-op play, not an actual MERGE. And the players that want this are mainly complaining about the STFs and how hard it is to get a KDF team together for them. (Yes, it makes sense story wise - enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that, but logistically it's just been difficult to find KDF players to run them). Two nights ago, I was playing CO with a friend, (but I subscribe to the KDF STF channel). There was team asking for players to help run Khitomer with them. They spammed the channel for an hour before I finally gave in and offered to join them. And for the record, I am against a MERGE, but having co-op play with CERTAIN missions would be of benefit.
It's not for the sake of content, it's what the content means. Right now it is a boring slog to level a Klingon, boring enough that most people won't do it. So we have no population and that is a huge problem. If we had content, even bad content, it could mean a larger population, an easier time pugging STF's, more competitive PVP queue's and the all important love and support from the developers.
Now, how do we get more content? Well, the status quo answer is to wait for it to get developed at it's current pace. The unrealistic answer is to complain enough and hope they hire on someone to develop it despite them not showing the inclination to really increase production on KDF content. Or we can sacrifice our feelings of initial uniqueness in some way by settling for Federation leftovers.
That's the calculation people are making when they suggest doing something they otherwise don't like.