Ship Size Comparison Chart (Klingon)

System

This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. This is the Klingon version of the chart, although I'm including the Federation version here as well. For more information on these charts and some others I came up with, visit the thread in the Fed Shipyard forum.

Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

Here's the Fed chart just in case you don't want to visit the other thread:

Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart

Unlike with the Federation ships, most of the Klingon ships are not canon, and thus I have no "official" source for the lengths. Thus most of them are estimates based on the Federation ships' canon lengths. I include some Fed ships in the Klingon chart just to give a point of reference. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

The ships that are canon seem to not be to scale either, particularly the Negh'Var, which is huge. I'm guessing the devs either made it bigger to make it comparable to the Star and Assault Cruisers, or the KDF has just evolved the design so it is larger. Likewise, the Somraw Raptor is a ST: Enterprise design, and this may be just a 2409 design that is named the same.

I have posted both the fighters from the Vo'Qov and the Kar'fi, as a comparison to the shuttles. While I have not posted the new playable fighter yet, I plan to replace the Vo'Qov fighter with it if they turn out to be the same size.

Archived Post

Blayyde wrote:

This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. This is the Klingon version of the chart, although I'm including the Federation version here as well. For more information on these charts and some others I came up with, visit the thread in the Fed Shipyard forum.

Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

Here's the Fed chart just in case you don't want to visit the other thread:

Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart

Unlike with the Federation ships, most of the Klingon ships are not canon, and thus I have no "official" source for the lengths. Thus most of them are estimates based on the Federation ships' canon lengths. I include some Fed ships in the Klingon chart just to give a point of reference. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

The ships that are canon seem to not be to scale either, particularly the Negh'Var, which is huge. I'm guessing the devs either made it bigger to make it comparable to the Star and Assault Cruisers, or the KDF has just evolved the design so it is larger. Likewise, the Somraw Raptor is a ST: Enterprise design, and this may be just a 2409 design that is named the same.

I have posted both the fighters from the Vo'Qov and the Kar'fi, as a comparison to the shuttles. While I have not posted the new playable fighter yet, I plan to replace the Vo'Qov fighter with it if they turn out to be the same size.

Neat, really interesting chart, and well worth a sticky.

Archived Post

Blayyde wrote:

This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. This is the Klingon version of the chart, although I'm including the Federation version here as well. For more information on these charts and some others I came up with, visit the thread in the Fed Shipyard forum.

Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

Here's the Fed chart just in case you don't want to visit the other thread:

Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart

Unlike with the Federation ships, most of the Klingon ships are not canon, and thus I have no "official" source for the lengths. Thus most of them are estimates based on the Federation ships' canon lengths. I include some Fed ships in the Klingon chart just to give a point of reference. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

The ships that are canon seem to not be to scale either, particularly the Negh'Var, which is huge. I'm guessing the devs either made it bigger to make it comparable to the Star and Assault Cruisers, or the KDF has just evolved the design so it is larger. Likewise, the Somraw Raptor is a ST: Enterprise design, and this may be just a 2409 design that is named the same.

I have posted both the fighters from the Vo'Qov and the Kar'fi, as a comparison to the shuttles. While I have not posted the new playable fighter yet, I plan to replace the Vo'Qov fighter with it if they turn out to be the same size.

Yeah i think the Negh'Var was sized like that for the intimidation factor and so the can launch the fighters.

Archived Post

Does anyone else find it odd that my BoP is both longer and wider than the intrepid and comparing it to the other fed and KDF vessels that it is above average size even for cruisers(not counting T5 and 4 cruisers). Isnt the BoP supposed to be more fighter like in stature, maybe its just me.

Archived Post

hmmm the bop is an odd beast at best, its a front line attack vessel, klingons dont ever make anything for the defensive stance of a tank, they hide in the shadows, pop out an blast. dont think there is much difference between a bop and a raptor apart from the fact the raptor is more an infiltration vessel then the bop and the bop is more of an all rounder. both tactical but for different uses.

but i know what ye mean, when you see a bop in the films they look as big as the enterprise but think it was the voyage home when a bop was on the ground it looked no where near as big as the enterprise so go figure.

its like when you watch star trek they dont even seem that much of an honourable race to me (i play orion) as they hunt in packs like dogs when they go head to head anything else they sneak up on someone and have a pop if they fail they usually try an hide an have another go so for such a race of honor hounds they dont half hide alot.

Archived Post

12guageshotgun wrote:

Does anyone else find it odd that my BoP is both longer and wider than the intrepid and comparing it to the other fed and KDF vessels that it is above average size even for cruisers(not counting T5 and 4 cruisers). Isnt the BoP supposed to be more fighter like in stature, maybe its just me.

Only the newer BoPs are larger, probably for resons like the need to put those weapons, stronger hull, shields and a power source to keep it all running somewhere.
That's why the models steadily grow in size from the B'rel up.
It makes sense otherwise it's like placing a Main Battle Tank's gun turret onto a jeep.
Even thugh there is no recoil in space, the weaponry must be moved and powered somehow.
Also while the Hegh'ta has a large wingspan and long hull this is not entirely the defining factor for the ship's size, the actual volume is.
And in that category it's probably just a bit above the Nova.

The only ship that this defies this logic is of course the T5 B'rel retrofit because it's just a super-buffed version of the T1 model without any physical modifications.
You can point and laugh at me for bringin up an explanation why a larger ship for twice the guns make sense only to have my entire line of reasoning killed off by the retrofit BoP if you wish.

Archived Post

Yeah, my take on it is that the devs wanted to beef up the Klingon ships, perhaps to note the progress from the TOS era, and thus the BoP starts at 150 meters, and grows larger from there.

Interestingly, though, if you look at the canon, the Bird of Prey is one of the odder discontinuities. The Bird of Prey, with the exact same model with the same detailing, is depicted at dozens of different scales, varying from 110 meters to well over 700. According to Ex Astris, the most consistent scales appear to be the 110 meter length from TMP, and a length around 330 meters which was used in TNG to make the BoP comparable to the Galaxy and Romulan warships. (Which are admittedly huge in comparison to everything else) This was also apparently named the K'Vort class.

The latter very nicely fits the size of the Hegh'Ta BoP, while the K'Tang would be in the same range, if a little small. (at 290 m) The Quldun at 180 m and the Norgh at 240 m are a compromise between the two, and would fit with a 230 m IKS Pagh from the TNG episode "A Matter of Honor".

In other words, it seems like the devs, instead of scaling the same B'Rel up to different sizes as in the canon, designed their own Bird of Prey classes, and set them at the significant sizes from the show. WIth the B'Rel, it's canon length of 110 m was boosted to 150 m to match the Defiant, which apparently was upgraded from 120 to 150 as well.

The BoP isn't really a fighter, it's a small raider, like the Defiant, but it scales comparably to Federation Escorts. The Raptor seems to be a similar design lineage, only with fixed wings, and a narrower wingspan. I would guess that the BoP is designed specifically for atmospheric entry (thus it's adjustable wing angle) and so even the larger versions are probably capable of reentry, although possibly not as easily as the B'Rel. (The Intrepid class can land on a planet, though, so the same should be possible for any ship of similar size, as long as it's properly constructed)

Archived Post

Hello Blayyde, there is a little something that I remembered and I'd like to share with you.
I noticed that you usually gie the size of the ship and if the STO-size and the canon size differ, you give both.
In case of the T2 Raptor that is not correct however.
Back before STO came out, there were several additional pieces of information on the STO homepege.
Among them was an article about the T2 Raptor along with its given size which was 240 meters.
Unfortunately that piece of information is no longer on the page, god knows why.
However the article can still be viewed here:

http://www.warcry.com/news/view/89845-Star-Trek-Online-Klingon-Raptor-Revealed

and it also states that the STO Raptor and the Raptor from "Enterprise" look very much alike but are not the same ship and that the STO incarnation is somewhat larger.

Before the game launched, Suricata made a chart where the two Raptors were also listed as two seperate ships with their respective size attached to them:

http://suricatasblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/klingonships18.png

So if you ever come around to it I'd like to respectfully suggest you remove that piece about the 145 meters since it refers to another ship that just looks like the 240 meters ship in STO.
Or maybe you could add a note that the two Raptors are not the same kind of ship.
Just a thought, thanks.

Archived Post

The original Bird of Prey was intended to be a scout, not really a fighter, and was roughly 110m in length. That was for Star Trek III for the record, TMP only had K'T'Inga class cruisers, so the B'Rel in game is at a fairly accurate scale.

Fans have digitaly re-created the TNG BoP scenes that depict super-sized BoPs and they've pretty much confirmed that they were actually 350m in size and not 650+ like is often quoted. The 650+ rumour was generated largely by Rick Sternbach adding that into the DS9 technical manual, but he later confirmed that he had used the wrong calculation and that 350m was the accurate size for the bigger BoP's.

In regards to the wings of a BoP and atmospheric flight, they shift upward primarily to lock solidly into position, so while you could argue they lock in order to withstand the stressts of entering an atmosphere it is more to do with withstanding the effects of gravity while landed and less to do with re-entry itself. It also conviniently raises the wing-tip cannons away from the ground.

In Trek, pretty much all ships can enter an atmosphere, because they generate an electric displacement field which effectively pushes the air molecules away from the vessel which reduces drag (so you don't need aerodynamics) and reduces or removes the friction of re-entry (so you don't need heat shields).

That's my nerdy post for the day!

Archived Post

12guageshotgun wrote:

Does anyone else find it odd that my BoP is both longer and wider than the intrepid and comparing it to the other fed and KDF vessels that it is above average size even for cruisers(not counting T5 and 4 cruisers). Isnt the BoP supposed to be more fighter like in stature, maybe its just me.

I always thought the Hegh'ta was a bit large, but it makes it easier to fly. Cheers to the BoP captains. Good day.

Archived Post

mister_dee wrote:

Only the newer BoPs are larger, probably for resons like the need to put those weapons, stronger hull, shields and a power source to keep it all running somewhere.
That's why the models steadily grow in size from the B'rel up.
It makes sense otherwise it's like placing a Main Battle Tank's gun turret onto a jeep.
Even thugh there is no recoil in space, the weaponry must be moved and powered somehow.
Also while the Hegh'ta has a large wingspan and long hull this is not entirely the defining factor for the ship's size, the actual volume is.
And in that category it's probably just a bit above the Nova.

The only ship that this defies this logic is of course the T5 B'rel retrofit because it's just a super-buffed version of the T1 model without any physical modifications.
You can point and laugh at me for bringin up an explanation why a larger ship for twice the guns make sense only to have my entire line of reasoning killed off by the retrofit BoP if you wish.

Tell this to the Defiant, which in canon for the time frame it was in was the most powerful ship in Starfleet (and arguably the alpha quadrant). If you watch the DS9 episode where the ship is introduced, you find out how they manage to pack such a powerful punch into a small ship like that.

The analogy of putting a tank turret on a Jeep isn't really fitting, nor much related here considering we're dealing with energy weapons not projectile weapons. Working with that analogy: while you certainly couldn't just drop a tank turret on a Jeep and expect it to work, you could easily take a same caliber gun and build a Jeep sized vehicle around it and have it be very effective.

If you look at modern warfare you'll see that from the time of WWI through till currently, weapons are getting more powerful but they are not getting larger, nor are the platforms that deploy those weapons. Sure, naval carriers have gotten much larger since they first appeared, but the number of aircraft that they support has increased while there has not been a significant change in size of fighter aircraft since the first naval carrier was conceived. If you look at a tank from WWII and a modern day tank, the size is similar but the modern day tank packs way more punch and can withstand way more punishment.

The only thing that really has an impact on the size of a modern day weapons platform is what role that platform is supposed to play and the number of crew it supports.

The reason the B'rel doesn't change in size but becomes more powerful is because the technology has improved while the number of crew the ship supports has not. The ships in the game are getting larger because they are getting more crew. What really needs to be questioned is why they are getting more crew. The role of the original B'rel and the Hegh'ta are the same, but the Hegh'ta has roughly 3x the crew so it's also roughly 3x the size. The reality (if you can really say 'reality' when dealing with an entirely fictional universe) is likely that the ships are getting more crew because they need to be more self sufficient to be able to handle longer periods of time away from a home port.

ebeneezergoode

I guess big ships need more people to maintain. They kind of got bloated after a point with so many labs and non-combat facilities I think. Regarding the size of the Hegh'ta, it's wider than an Excelsior is long. I've long been of the opinion that above a certain size, BoPs should be variable geometry, in that we can pick a wing setting, and either be more cruiser like, or more escort like, depending on wether they're up or down. This mechanic exists already in the Garumba and d'kora, and with the ammount of unique boff arrangements the BoP has becoming no longer unique, it needs something else to balance out that missing ensign.

I'd love to go cruiser-BoP like Kurn in the Hegh'ta (as in the original Hegh'ta) in Redemption. And as Redemption's such a cool Klingon episode, I'm going to watch it right now. Glory to the Empire!

qkanar2010

Archived Post wrote: »

This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. This is the Klingon version of the chart, although I'm including the Federation version here as well. For more information on these charts and some others I came up with, visit the thread in the Fed Shipyard forum.

Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

Here's the Fed chart just in case you don't want to visit the other thread:

Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart

Unlike with the Federation ships, most of the Klingon ships are not canon, and thus I have no "official" source for the lengths. Thus most of them are estimates based on the Federation ships' canon lengths. I include some Fed ships in the Klingon chart just to give a point of reference. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

The ships that are canon seem to not be to scale either, particularly the Negh'Var, which is huge. I'm guessing the devs either made it bigger to make it comparable to the Star and Assault Cruisers, or the KDF has just evolved the design so it is larger. Likewise, the Somraw Raptor is a ST: Enterprise design, and this may be just a 2409 design that is named the same.

I have posted both the fighters from the Vo'Qov and the Kar'fi, as a comparison to the shuttles. While I have not posted the new playable fighter yet, I plan to replace the Vo'Qov fighter with it if they turn out to be the same size.

i like the chart its pretty accurate. good job

lordgyor

Does anyone know what size the Corsair is?

artan42

lordgyor wrote: »

Does anyone know what size the Corsair is?

About 550 metres long.

lordgyor

artan42 wrote: »

About 550 metres long.

Thank you.

So its slightly smaller then the Maurader, but has more crew, hmmm maybe the extra hull on the basic Maurader, has something to do with that.

lordgyor

For comparison the CN Tower is 553 metres tall. Not as wide though.

scottstaten

Archived Post wrote: »

If you look at modern warfare you'll see that from the time of WWI through till currently, weapons are getting more powerful but they are not getting larger, nor are the platforms that deploy those weapons. Sure, naval carriers have gotten much larger since they first appeared, but the number of aircraft that they support has increased while there has not been a significant change in size of fighter aircraft since the first naval carrier was conceived. If you look at a tank from WWII and a modern day tank, the size is similar but the modern day tank packs way more punch and can withstand way more punishment.

I've been to the aberdeen proving grounds on armed forces day and, well. an M1 is CONSIDERABLY larger than any WW2 tank, especially the american ones. The M60 is also larger but smalle than the M1 by a fair bit. So the tanks have gotten bigger.


Also, your comment about the size of carrier based aircraft not changing since WW2 is also incorrect. The F-14 and F15 are about as big (length/wingspan) as a B25 mitchell bomber which was quite a bit largert than any carrier based aircraft normally used (Read up ont he doolittle raid and hwo hard it was to launch the Mitchells)

smokeybacon90

Modern OPVs are around the same size as some ancient oared Quinqueremes. However the complexity of the onboard systems are obviously hugely different. The physical size of the final piece of hardware rarely goes hand in hand with technological development. They are usually big or small enough to get the job done.

rodentmaster

This chart just doesn't seem to gel with what's in-game. I had my Fleet K'tinga Retro parked side by side with a vorcha retrofit in-game and they were almost exactly the same length. This was in the past month. Even got a screenshot because it was a nice image (old and new).

solochris

Archived Post wrote: »

Does anyone else find it odd that my BoP is both longer and wider than the intrepid and comparing it to the other fed and KDF vessels that it is above average size even for cruisers(not counting T5 and 4 cruisers). Isnt the BoP supposed to be more fighter like in stature, maybe its just me.

just noticed your post and thought i would through in my 2pence. The BoP is actually meant as a multipurpose design, and its size is matched to the purpose it is for. e.g a small scout (origianl b'rel) would be about the size of the defiant, but if it was taking the role of fleet escort would probably be much larger, more inline with voyager, so no i dont find your ships size to be odd. one refrence i checked before (i think it was the wiki) said that there was even a "Cruiser" sized BoP model which was a front line assault ship type idea so BoP's come in many sizes.

quihiqas

Why Star Trek Online Klingon Starship Classification system does not count on a real starship classes?
D12
D28
D32
L42
K22

P.S.: Some of them, does not have a total tactical advance, and can apear on the first 4 levels. (L42, like a Dderidex for example, too low. )

spaceshipfoodf

Can you put the Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer and the Bortasqu' on here?

artan42

spaceshipfoodf wrote: »

Can you put the Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer and the Bortasqu' on here?

From the wiki.

bcgibson2

i think we are over due to a new size chart, we dont have the bortasque and some others including the new command ships.