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Ship Size Comparison Chart

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 177,987 Arc User
edited April 2014 in Federation Discussion
This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. While SpiderMitch's Ship Chart is really cool and complete, it doesn't really show the sizes of the various ships against each other. (By intention, he has said, so I'm glad I could fill in that gap) Since we now have a single Federation ship forum, and this might get sticked, I thought I'd repost it.

Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart
Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

This is taken from ingame, and all screenshots were taken at a standard distance (I edited a demo) so it should be completely accurate. I added some ship lengths that I researched from Memory Alpha and some other places, and it actually seemed to be pretty accurate. There were some discrepancies, but for the most part I was able to relate length in pixels to meters, which is how I estimated the sizes for those that I could not find listed.

Both a Federation and a Klingon version are included, although I included some Fed ships in the Klingon chart for comparison purposes. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

Also, just for grins, I've added this chart with the Multi Vector Assault Mode sections, as well as some ships in that range (and the assembled ship) for reference.

Multi Vector Assault Mode Comparison Chart
Also, for more grins, Corrected Shuttle and Defiant Chart

UPDATE LOG:
  • FED 1.6 - Added Odyssey Cruiser.
  • FED 1.5 - Added background grid. Added Class F Shuttle and Peregrine Fighter. Corrected name of Dervish to Hermes and Destiny to Trident. Corrected Hermes nacelles, changing Hermes' estimated size and order in chart. Corrected spelling of Saber.
  • FED 1.4 - Added Oberth
  • MVAM 1.0 - Initial revision, to display Prometheus MVAM sections.
  • FED 1.3 - Changed yellow lighting to blue. (changed to Earth sector for screenshots)
  • KDF 1.0 - Initial revision, including 18 KDF ships, 2 shuttles, 2 fighters (from the carriers) and 6 Fed ships for comparison.
  • FED 1.2 - Reordered ships in strict order of length.
  • FED 1.1 - Removed lens flare. Added Delta Flyer and Tal'Kyr shuttles. Doubled up shuttle section. Corrected Assault Cruiser appearance from Noble to Sovereign, and corrected several canon lengths. Corrected Defiant to Tier 4/5.
  • FED 1.0 - Initial revision, including 23 ships and 3 shuttes. Ships are in order of estimated mass.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    To provide a bit more information, the above was produced by using a demo, and capturing screenshots at a constant distance, so perspective and other issues do not come into play. I also made very precise measurements of game coordinates, to ensure that my in game lengths were consistent. Then then produced a graphical chart, in which I plot the in game length of each ship against the best known canon length. In the case where they was no canon length (indicated by "~" above for an approximation) I made that approximation based on my chart.

    Here is a link to an image I made of the chartt. ShipSizeGraph

    The graph shows that, when it comes to the relation of ship sizes to each other, I think the devs did a pretty consistent job. The scale of the ships to the environment may be off, and shuttles are off as per the devs themselves, (notice the alternate scaling line for shuttles) but for the most part each ship sits right on the line. Any inconstencies that players may have noted, I think, may be due to perspective errors, thinking that another ship is larger or smaller than your because of the different angles.

    There are three fairly large exceptions. One is the Defiant, of course. It is much too large for its official size. But even that is not consistent, some sources have the Defiant as small as 90 meters, or as large as 150. The devs my have settled for 150 just to give it more visibility.

    The other interesting "errors" are the Sabre, and Akira, both Escorts. In both cases, the devs made them smaller than canon. The Sabre matches the Defiant at 150 meters, while the Akira seems to be about 400-415 meters long in game, in place of 440 meters. I'm not sure whether the devs made them smaller to make them more escort-like, or just had different sources for the lengths.

    The larger ships also seem to be a little off, but not more than about 10 meters. (And in fact, my first pass had them right on the line, but as I made some changes to confirmed my figures Excel recalculated the line and moved up a bit) The Nova may be off by about 2 meters, and the Nebula seems a bit off as well. But that is not as much as the big three above.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Post for future edit: I will probably move the MVAM Chart here.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Nice work. Be interesting to see a ship size chart for all the ships in game, including all the variants of the various classes.

    Kind of hilarious how big the shuttles are in game. Then again, as shown in your shuttle chart, if they were "actual size," you wouldn't be able to see them. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    archanubis wrote:
    Nice work. Be interesting to see a ship size chart for all the ships in game, including all the variants of the various classes.

    Kind of hilarious how big the shuttles are in game. Then again, as shown in your shuttle chart, if they were "actual size," you wouldn't be able to see them. :D

    http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/STOshiptierchart_wip.jpg

    Currently revamping my ship tier chart to have pictures instead of the side views I'd drawn, will be adding the shuttles to it and was thinking of actually enemy ships as well :-P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    archanubis wrote:
    Nice work. Be interesting to see a ship size chart for all the ships in game, including all the variants of the various classes.

    Yeah, there are definately variations in size, which could effect the "order" of similar sized ships. (Such as the Prometheus and Cheyenne) However, my purpose was to create a quick chart which gave the closest direct comparison between the most ships in the least amount of space. Adding all the variants would have made the chart too big for such a direct comparison.

    I like Suricata's chart, though. Although it's not as clear when it comes to direct comparison, it's organized more like SpiderMitch's chart. (Or the other way around; I remember that old chart :D) I would suggest adding numeric lengths, even if you have to use an estimate. Or, maybe a ruler across the top of each ship class, with perhaps a grid line every 100 meters or so. Of course, that's assuming you want to use a consistent scale, or to even bother with that...

    I came up with a formula for converting from game coordinates to meters, I will try to post it here, as well as my table of in game coordinates. I basically collected those by going into the demo and placing cameras at the front and rear points of the ship to record their coordinates. But obviously collecting those coordinates for ALL the ships in game will add drastically to the time this will take. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Just as a small note, the scaling of the Defiant is not incorrect in-game. The scaling of the Defiant varies from episode to episode. Memory Alpha explains it in detail:
    According to Hutzel, during the early development stages of the ship, the Defiant was to be "a new hot battleship that would really set a new standard for an action ship in the series. First, there was lots of talk like 'How big is the Defiant?' Well, we'll make it really small and really powerful, that it would be so powerful and scary, nobody would mess with it." (USS Defiant, DS9 Season 3 DVD special features)
    According to Doug Drexler, "The size of the Defiant was a hot potato from day one. Rick Berman wanted a small pocket battleship (a couple times longer than a runabout, with the girth of a regular starship), Gary wanted at least 500' [152.4 m]." [4]

    The scale of the CGI mesh, according to a post in the newsgroup nntp://alt.tv.star-trek.ds9, by DS9 Visual Effects Supervisor David Stipes, was 560' (170.7 m), the length used when he blocked shots in DS9. This was also the size established in the DS9 Technical Manual.


    MSD depicting early design for the Defiant-class
    The original MSD that appeared in "The Search, Part I" actually depicted an early concept design and did not represent the final product. It was later replaced with an accurate MSD in such episodes as "Shattered Mirror", although it was used on displays until the end of Deep Space Nine. Drexler, who was responsible for creating the ship's MSD, rationalized "a 420′ [128.0 m] Defiant." [5]
    For further analysis on the Defiant's scaling, visit the "Defiant Problems" link at Ex Astris Scientia below.

    The following details and specifications comes exclusively from the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual:
    Specifications
    Production Base: ASDB Integration Facility, Antares Fleet Yards, Antares IV
    Type: Escort
    Accommodation: 40 officers and crew; 150 personal evacuation limit
    Power Plant: One 1,500 plus Cochrane warp core feeding two nacelles; two impulse modules
    Dimensions: Length, 170.68 meters; beam, 134.11 meters; height: 30.1 meters
    Mass: 355,000 metric tonnes
    Performance: Warp 9.982 for 12 hours
    Armament: Four pulse phaser cannons; two torpedo launchers

    So depending on where you look, it can be 128m, 152m, or 170m. STO (and apparently CBS) decided to use the middle number.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    cuatela wrote:
    Just as a small note, the scaling of the Defiant is not incorrect in-game. The scaling of the Defiant varies from episode to episode. Memory Alpha explains it in detail:

    Most of the estimates for the Defiant's size come out on the low side of 150 meters, and Ex Astris regards it as 120 meters. I see no reason to disagree with STO's compromise, though.

    I honestly think the devs don't want to make any normal starship smaller than 150 meters. The Oberth is the only one that breaks that rule, and it's Tier 1. (It is also kind of hard to justify at that size, it really doesn't leave any room for passage between the two hulls)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    blayyde wrote:
    I like Suricata's chart, though. Although it's not as clear when it comes to direct comparison, it's organized more like SpiderMitch's chart. (Or the other way around; I remember that old chart :D) I would suggest adding numeric lengths, even if you have to use an estimate. Or, maybe a ruler across the top of each ship class, with perhaps a grid line every 100 meters or so. Of course, that's assuming you want to use a consistent scale, or to even bother with that...

    The grid on the background actually does represent 100m, although the image I posted is a rough mockup of the new chart I'm making right now, so some scales are off. The labels on the ships will just retain the c-store price/credits of the ships, although my older version did have ship lengths on it, I got tired of the debates people wanted to have about them :-P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    suricata wrote: »
    The grid on the background actually does represent 100m, although the image I posted is a rough mockup of the new chart I'm making right now, so some scales are off. The labels on the ships will just retain the c-store price/credits of the ships, although my older version did have ship lengths on it, I got tired of the debates people wanted to have about them :-P

    Actually, it looks more like the grids are 50m square. That's quite useful though. As I said above, SpiderMitch has said he wants to stay with the multiple views, so all of the ships can be seen clearly, while obviously if you make all of the ships to scale, the Klingon carriers will be enourmous, while the Defiant will be too small to make out any real details. (And that doesn't even count the shuttles :D)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    suricata wrote: »
    http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/STOshiptierchart_wip.jpg

    Currently revamping my ship tier chart to have pictures instead of the side views I'd drawn, will be adding the shuttles to it and was thinking of actually enemy ships as well :-P

    Also very nice, Suricata. Just curious, are you planning to split the two factions into their own stand alone charts?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    archanubis wrote:
    Also very nice, Suricata. Just curious, are you planning to split the two factions into their own stand alone charts?

    Nope, I prefer being able to compare all ships at once, it also makes it good for PVP as well then, as you can see what tier an opponant is compared to you more easily.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Really nice to see them all againt another like this.
    /Sticky supported.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Very nice set of comparasion charts! Really empathsies how differant the ships are in design as well as size.

    Be wondeful if you inculde the non playable ships in your chart sometime! Just how big is the Jupiter Dreadnaught for example?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ogrebear wrote: »
    Very nice set of comparasion charts! Really empathsies how differant the ships are in design as well as size.

    Be wondeful if you inculde the non playable ships in your chart sometime! Just how big is the Jupiter Dreadnaught for example?

    I need to finish up that, but that chart got REALLY big. Mainly because I included the Romulan Scimitar, and that is a HUGE ship. :D

    Some of the biggest ships in the game, BTW, are those freighters you see flying around Sirius Sector. Although I'm not sure if their scale in Sector Space is the same as their scale in System Space.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Check out the new background grid. I need to add a notation to clarify that the grid is 100 meters square, but it seems to work quite well. The grid, like the ship lengths, are calculated using in game coordinates, so it should be fairly precise.

    It should be noted, though, that the apparent formula the devs use seems to have an offset in it. So the first 100 meters is a little longer than all subsequent measurements. You can see this if you study the 700 meter scale (the big ships) on the right. The first grid is just a little wider than the others. However, for some reason the 400 meter scale on the left didn't quite work that way, it fit better with a uniform grid. However, this may be because many of the ships simply don't match up with the canon lengths down to the meter. The grid can really only be relied on as a reference for comparison.

    The height of the grids, as well, does not really correspond to anything. I merely chose a spacing that looked consistent with the widths.

    I will need to add the grid to the MVAM Chart and the Klingon Chart as well, but the latter will need a whole new grid as it is on a different scale.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Very nice ship comparsion!


    blayyde wrote:
    This is a repost of my Ship Size Comparison Chart, which I originally posted in the Academy forum. While SpiderMitch's Ship Chart is really cool and complete, it doesn't really show the sizes of the various ships against each other. (By intention, he has said, so I'm glad I could fill in that gap) Since we now have a single Federation ship forum, and this might get sticked, I thought I'd repost it.

    Federation Ship Size Comparison Chart
    Klingon Ship Size Comparison Chart

    This is taken from ingame, and all screenshots were taken at a standard distance (I edited a demo) so it should be completely accurate. I added some ship lengths that I researched from Memory Alpha and some other places, and it actually seemed to be pretty accurate. There were some discrepancies, but for the most part I was able to relate length in pixels to meters, which is how I estimated the sizes for those that I could not find listed.

    Both a Federation and a Klingon version are included, although I included some Fed ships in the Klingon chart for comparison purposes. The Klingon ships get WAY bigger than the Federation with those carriers, and so their chart is to a smaller scale. (The smallest ships may be a bit harder to see)

    Also, just for grins, I've added this chart with the Multi Vector Assault Mode sections, as well as some ships in that range (and the assembled ship) for reference.

    Multi Vector Assault Mode Comparison Chart
    Also, for more grins, Corrected Shuttle and Defiant Chart

    UPDATE LOG:
    • FED 1.5 - Added background grid. Added Class F Shuttle and Peregrine Fighter. Corrected name of Dervish to Hermes and Destiny to Trident. Corrected Hermes nacelles, changing Hermes' estimated size and order in chart. Corrected spelling of Saber.
    • FED 1.4 - Added Oberth
    • MVAM 1.0 - Initial revision, to display Prometheus MVAM sections.
    • FED 1.3 - Changed yellow lighting to blue. (changed to Earth sector for screenshots)
    • KDF 1.0 - Initial revision, including 18 KDF ships, 2 shuttles, 2 fighters (from the carriers) and 6 Fed ships for comparison.
    • FED 1.2 - Reordered ships in strict order of length.
    • FED 1.1 - Removed lens flare. Added Delta Flyer and Tal'Kyr shuttles. Doubled up shuttle section. Corrected Assault Cruiser appearance from Noble to Sovereign, and corrected several canon lengths. Corrected Defiant to Tier 4/5.
    • FED 1.0 - Initial revision, including 23 ships and 3 shuttes. Ships are in order of estimated mass.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    i agree alot of ships need to be sorted out, any chance they are going to do this?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    Just FYI... getting a 404 on this now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Actly if u have a ST Encyclopedia Per ST Insurrection u can find a better size comparsion in it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited September 2011
    Well done!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    Fantastic!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2011
    when are the devs going to sort the sizes of the ships?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    Just as a bit of an FYI, the DS9 TM states the Akira's length as 464.43 meters.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    I can't wait to see how the new ships stack up.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Links broken! Fix please!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Can't wait to see Odyssey, Type 10 Shuttle and others in there, wonderful charts!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Well going by a comparison side by side of the Odyssey versus the Sovereign (default look) of 685 meters, and seeing the Odyssey is roughly a 3rd longer, that would put the over all length of the Odyssey class around 911 meters, give or take. My guess.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I Think they should make the excelsior a little bigger and the defiant a little smaller
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I can see how the runabout (when properly scaled) fit into the Galaxy's main shuttlebay (saucer)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    very nice.. i love it, however i think crytpic needs to adress the akira. its 440 meter long, and so isnt the nebula, and the nebula looks 50 feet longer than it lol... also, you can see it with the prometheus, the prometheus is 415 meters long, but is still longer than the akira...

    i think when crypitc was first designing the game, they didnt want to make it as big as it was onscreen as they were making it an escort. and i think they were thinking small .lol...

    your chart is very nice and is now my background hehehe..
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