So, in game with a dev we had a conversation about carriers. He asked :
What do you think about carriers losing all but one weapon slot in front and one in rear, and those other slots being used to add hangar capacity.
The idea was that you could equip "sub-hangars" in a weapon slot, but that it took two slots to equip it.
Those sub hangars couldn't hold things like Birds of Prey, but small fighter squadrons or even the shield repair drones.
The idea would be that you are sacrificing firepower of your main ship to get additional hangar support.
Someone asked, What about the spam people are already complaining about?
His reply was, the spam issue isn't a huge problem, and we have a few ideas for UI options that may help with "targeting through spam". He said that their data didn't show much more server strain or lag due to excessive fighters on the map, and that the real concern was making targeting the Carrier through those fighters easier for players to do.
I said that I'd be for using sub-hangars, and would really like that idea considered.
He didn't say that it was something being thought about, worked on or if it was something he had just thought up on the spot. I mentioned I would make a post and let the other carrier pilots chime in with their thoughts, and he asked me to leave his name out of it. I have forgotten his name now, anyway.
So, here we are, fellow carrier pilots. And while I know that a good number of Feds will come in and QQ that it would be overpowered and blah blah. Well, Fed's would be happy if Carriers were gone completely...until they get one. Then of course it will be, they are too weak we need more DPS.
So, ignoring those who dismiss the use of sub-hangars before they even test them, what does everyone else think? Would YOU give up 2 or 4 guns for more hangar space? And when/if the Feds get a carrier, they would get the same access to sub-hangars.
For more idea of how it works, what was said was:
Sub-hangars come in two pieces. They would work like set items do. There would be 2 for the front and 2 for the rear, they can only be slotted in the front or the rear by design. There are two ideas, one is that slotting one would reduce the cooldown of your actual hangars by up to 10%. Slotting both would change that cooldown bonus and spawn a certain type of secondary spawn. And of course, it's possible that slotting only one would do nothing at all.
So, for example, if you have "shield drone sub-hangar aft", you slot them both and you get a new ability to spawn a group of shield drones.
They may or may not be permanent, and they may or mat not be equal to normal drones. That would require testing first, but the hope is that they could be just like regular drones, Maybe fewer in number, or a longer cooldown. All things that have to be tested.
So basically you'd have to slot both halfs of the sub-hangar to get the spawns from it, and they have to be in the same location on your weapon slots.
Anyway, I liked the idea, and I hope it is something we can see one day. Sooner than later.
Please be polite and rational in your commentary. No one is asking for an "i win" button here, and remember, only constructive criticism and logical debate is useful.
Thanks for reading.
I would like HIM to play fed vs kdf where they X4 use a lot of spam, energy syphon, bops, and the scorpions throw in a bop or the battle cloak guy and all they do is confuse you and heal the other carriers around them...NOT FUN especially when for the 3rd time a HY shot went after a fighter or other spam.
IF they do something like this how about they can only heal pets of use the heal on self. and on top of that take scorpions and energy sphons off the list of things that can be directed to when you are confused. Because this wasnt fun at all.
Honestly after that match im not doing fed vs klingon pvp anymore until its fixed...now you want to give them more spam...FAIL
I would like HIM to play fed vs kdf where they X4 use a lot of spam, energy syphon, bops, and the scorpions throw in a bop or the battle cloak guy and all they do is confuse you and heal the other carriers around them...NOT FUN especially when for the 3rd time a HY shot went after a fighter or other spam.
IF they do something like this how about they can only heal pets of use the heal on self. and on top of that take scorpions and energy sphons off the list of things that can be directed to when you are confused. Because this wasnt fun at all.
Honestly after that match im not doing fed vs klingon pvp anymore until its fixed...now you want to give them more spam...FAIL
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
PvP is totaly different from PvE fix PvP!
Sounds excellent. Though I ask, is it just a FAW carrier or did you also design in some anti-FAW concepts?
I'm still BG3 as I grind my SCI alt to LG (boy FAW makes that quick work in pve) and have not yet fielded her into PvP.
She (nuQlI' laH - Annoying TRIBBLE) hopefully will help against the FAWFED beamboats with an unusual , yet somewhat suicidal attack.:)
uhhh lol at what time did I say I dont use CSV?you do know when there is 4 carries they can pump out A TON of spam...honestly sometimes I feel like Im taking crazy pills
"I hope you'll apologize my vacabulary," No I wont, your insulting me cause that guy said I dont use CSV? Hes not psychic
FAW and or CSV...(I was on a defiant R) only does so much, sure it takes care of some of the spam quikly especially the energy drains, witch by the way can be very effective, but huge amounts of spam and constantly being confused and chain healing made for a land slide pvp match, we got 2 in our match, and yes we had vent, yes we lost a good sci player due to server issues but it was brutal
opzulu, not to say you are wrong (again) but i have been in pvp matches where there are 4 and even 5 vo'quv carriers, and all feds do is chain FAW, and then i never see enough fighters to make a difference.
Again, carriers are not overpowered, TO MANY is if played against a scrub team.
A well played set group for example would laugh themselves silly if they came up against a carrier heavy team.
Even if that carrier team were also a set group.
Carriers are insanely pet dependent if they want to do well, but all it takes is 2 or 3 cruisers with FAW to render them useless.
And as much as i applaud feds that isn't using FAW (because that means i can kill them) i can't say anything else then suit yourselves if they don't.
Yes, a carrier can if left alone to launch all the fighters deal some respectable DPS, but still no where NEAR the same as your defiant R.
So lets nerf the defiant R shall we?
A carrier is supposed to be powerful, it is after all, according to the info "the biggest most powerful ship in the klingon fleet". But the new FAW has made it worthless.
about what? all I said was that I do indeed use CRF are you calling me a liar? or that large amounts of spam is effective? or that we used vent? or we were a team?
"but the new faw has made it worthless"
so you could have been civil and said use faw its totally op and you would have won. I do use CSV but i guess i can ditch the defiant r and get a faw boat...
And what will happen when they nerf faw and have even more annoying spam? fights and enery draining probes arent bad but when your sensors are constantly switching you around its annoying and you have to force change every 5 seconds the spam is a "meat shield" for the very strong cruisers.
Do what you like. But please stop your QQing cause you lost against what FEDs have done in the first place. I see no difference in launching all my fighters to aid me in combat or to huggle and support each other. What's the difference about laying a net of mines? There is no difference.
To give you an advanced hint - the difiant R is an escort with a romulan cloakingdevice and you can say it's on paar or even better than a BoP on the same tier. So what is your opponent?
1) The biggest ship in the whole damn STO universe
2) The slowest (flying and turning) ship in the whole damn STO universe
3) The only ship that is dependent on its support ships.
4) The only KDF ship that can't hide (I don't count Orion or the other garbage a KDF ship)
5) The only science ship that Cryptic cripled to the state that you can't miss the sign "shoot me first".
So all you do is looking for an excuse for your unsurpassed disability to change your playstyle depending on the situation.
SS does not only affect you. Did you read the patch notes?
In case you'r SS'ed... you've got those greenish lights around you. Maybe you should take it as a hint to not switch targets wild or activate a power that could heal your target. You also could select your target by secting it with your mouse? (That's what I do in case I got SS'ed and my pet's kill themself).
You could think about a counter strategy - maybe concentrated fire on one target? Target Subsystems? Gravity Well? Scramble Sensors? What ever... you don't have to use FAW or CSV to be effective against pets.
in this particular thread everyone just thinks the worst...Yes I was using scramble sensors and i boosted it with an aux battery so i could run a hotter weapons power, I did mention vent, but i guess i have to tell you we were shooting at singular targets, i went with target engines in this round, might change it out want to test it out some more....and im very sure i was saying i made sure to select things when ssd andwhen it came to heals i did not send any to enemies but when you get ssd right as click fire torps it is going to send them to a pet. and thats frustrating caus you miss you chance to hit hull and then they get a heal and oppurtunity wasted.
And what will happen when they nerf faw and have even more annoying spam? fights and enery draining probes arent bad but when your sensors are constantly switching you around its annoying and you have to force change every 5 seconds the spam is a "meat shield" for the very strong cruisers.
I'm not sure If they have fighters that can be used as component items like aux batteries.
but if they can give the carriers Flotilla targeting abilities (like science ships have system tarting) this could solve some of the problems with the carrier limitation.
For the people that say carriers are weak:
If it wasn't for the support ships around our current carriers, a WW2 sub would save a good chance of sinking it (of course with modern torpedoes).
in this particular thread everyone just thinks the worst
Including YOU.
You assume that these sub-hangars would be more powerful or game breaking. They haven't been tested. They haven't even been made. They are surely not something that would be done anytime 'soon", and you are dismissing them (along with many others) based upon the current state of the game.
Instead, you could be more logical, and you could discuss what needs to change in game to make such a thing fit. Honestly, it's the people like you, and not just in this thread, who are the reason these bad changes were made in the first place.
They come here and cry and complain about this and that. They don't rationally talk about what should be fixed, how it is overpowered and a logical way it could work better. Intead, they scream doom and claim false ideals to be true.
Racism is surely rampant on these forums. Federation players seem to hate the Klingons and vice versa, regardless of cause or reason. I rarely see anyone discuss the topic from both sides, logically, or even from one side reasonably. They just start insulting and claiming the others are out of balance.
The main reason Feds don't like the Carrier is because they don't have one. I have flown a Carrier my entire General Career, even when it was reduced to a floating target that more often than not cost my team points.
You can tell there are so many more Fed players than Klingons because everytime you turn around a Klingon ship is being reduced. What I find supremely funny is that Fed vs Fed PvP is almost always full, where getting in a game with Klingons is hard as hell, but there is enough data among the community to say that something is overpowered on the Klingon side. You get your butts handed to you once and it's because the KDF is overpowered, not becasue you were on a bad team or maybe just didn't have the better skills. I will attest that on Klingon side I see us lose more than we win. The only time I can usually expect to win is in a Capture and Hold match. It's like the Feds never even try to catpure points, they are too busy blowing up ships. I can attest that that statement is also true as a Fed player. I am always yelling at the team to capture points because they just ignore them. In arena matches...9 out of 10 times the Feds win. I play Sci on Fed side. I fly the D'kyr. I can usually beat a carrier 1v1 without too much effort. They have the largest hulls in the game typically, but my little low DPS Sci ship can tear them down with relative ease.
There are few who are tough, but most are just floating tin. The few who aren't...yeah, they get accused of being OP every match they win. They aren't OP. It's just some loser doesn't know what he's doing, he thinks PvP is PvE and he gets his hat handed to him becasue he can't accomodate for the difference. Then he comes here and QQ's that Carriers are OP, that cloak is OP and that anything else he doesn't use or like is OP. He never tests it out. Never tres to learn how to beat it.
Want to verify that something is overpowered, do some 1v1 matches. Try your ship out against someone else. Try some different builds and see if you still believe that. No, it's easier to come here and complain and demand changes that aren't neccessary.
You know why PvP is so broken...that's why. Cryptic gives into the majority, which are sadly typically uneducated about the facts and just spew whatever someone else said. Sheep. Sit in a crowded place and glance around. Then look at your watch. Now look around again. Watch how many people also glance at their watch. The guy who doesn't...that's the one I want to ask about things.
KDF players spend more time in PvP. They have to. That's how they get equipment. So it stands to reason that practice makes a better player...and that the KDF is more practiced than FED. Funny, you can repeat that a million times...no one considers it.
So...when the KDF is nerfed, down to the last ship, so badly that they all quit...that they are like fighting NPC ships 10 levels under you...what will you do then? Stop playing becasue it's boring to have no challenge? Come and QQ that it's not a challenge? QQ cause there are no more KDF players and you can't get in a match?
All the above...probably. Then what, you just go to FED PvP and forget it. So why not do that now? Why not just go into FED vs FED and leave the KDF alone? See how long you last there, how long it takes before you start asking for changes to your OWN side of the game.
Wait...that would be logical. We can't have any of that.
"There are few who are tough, but most are just floating tin. The few who aren't...yeah, they get accused of being OP every match they win. They aren't OP. It's just some loser doesn't know what he's doing, he thinks PvP is PvE and he gets his hat handed to him becasue he can't accomodate for the difference. Then he comes here and QQ's that Carriers are OP, that cloak is OP and that anything else he doesn't use or like is OP. He never tests it out. Never tres to learn how to beat it."
your saying the feds are noobs when the carriers win and cry about it...Im saying the carriers are Very strong in groups and if they klingons know what they are doing they can dominate...
In the current state of the game, Carrier's have to deal damage without pets. You're spawns won't stay alive long enough to contribute to your damage. If you spec for tanking, you can can still be dropped by a sci ship fast. Sci has the lowest DPS in game, as I wrote previously.
That's maybe the best quote... from someone who never flew a carrier vs a skilled player/team.
No carrier aren't OP. It all depends on ypur oponent and you are no match at all.
And I'm still all against FvF cause it killed the whole PvP idea in STO cause since they started it those players lost the ground based for their insults. They just screem what they think without ever made a good ammount "tests" with different setups. I'm sorry but STO isn't canon nor balanced but QQing about that the carrier may be OP is the same as to grumble about the current weather.
PS: To you forum mods - next time edit a posting to it's meaning instead to grab a line and delete everything else.
And to those who calim to be a DEV - how about to write a line about the current state of the development and what we have to expect. It's annoying to write bugrepots en mass or discuss ideas to improve the game and never get a response.
PPS: Why do I never see a GM ingame but in this thread as a MOD?
I was making a point. Its sooo easy to just call someone a noob and that they cant play. I have seen Carriers used very effectivly and giving them more pets doesnt sit well with me.
And taking my quote out of context doesnt help your argument either.
I believe my first comment was that I would like them to test it first, because when used in large ammounts (large amounts of carriers that is) they can be used very effective, giving them more pets sounds like a bad idea. Now if there was a change in tandem with this one they should state it cause otherwise to think that some other magical change of balance will come out is just illogical.
we are talking about one update, specifically more spam on carriers. The point I brought up is in groups they can be used very effectively already.
I think the best part of this "conversation" is that I never said the carrier was OP...if you actually read what I said, they did something very effective. we havent found a good way to combat the strategy yet. What I would hate to see is our team using bfaw 1/2/3 to do it, I mean I thought this game was supposed to not have an I win button, we have been tryn different things, I changed things up but didnt matter in our 2nd match, hopefully the third will be more interesting.
Giving them more spam and having no other changes would be op and yes, that would include taking away the weapon slot to give them the hangar...NOW I said it the word OP
See how easy it is to just call someone a noob and that they dont know what they are doing? This thread is pointless...
"They come here and cry and complain about this and that. They don't rationally talk about what should be fixed, how it is overpowered and a logical way it could work better. Intead, they scream doom and claim false ideals to be true."
ROFL!! i guess its to much to ask for people to actually real my posts around here, tell me, did you read my posts in here or just attack me cause you saw i was as fed player in the klingon secton? This This is whats wrong with this thread. I was stating a personal experience not calling the ship op mind you, but the idea they want to do imo would be.
Giving them more spam and having no other changes would be op and yes, that would include taking away the weapon slot to give them the hangar...NOW I said it the word OP
You'r talking about spam - what do you think would another hangar change?
Nothing cause the ammount of fighters and BoPs are limited regardless of how many hangers you have.
Nobody was asking for more fighters - that's what you imply.
And yes - I do fly with and against skilled players.
And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills.
But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive?
6 to 12 escorts or science? So... don't brother me with your lolskills.
Skill and the right team and a proper communication and you will allways win.
I was making a point. Its sooo easy to just call someone a noob and that they cant play. I have seen Carriers used very effectivly and giving them more pets doesnt sit well with me.
And taking my quote out of context doesnt help your argument either.
I believe my first comment was that I would like them to test it first, because when used in large ammounts (large amounts of carriers that is) they can be used very effective, giving them more pets sounds like a bad idea. Now if there was a change in tandem with this one they should state it cause otherwise to think that some other magical change of balance will come out is just illogical.
we are talking about one update, specifically more spam on carriers. The point I brought up is in groups they can be used very effectively already.
I think the best part of this "conversation" is that I never said the carrier was OP...if you actually read what I said, they did something very effective. we havent found a good way to combat the strategy yet. What I would hate to see is our team using bfaw 1/2/3 to do it, I mean I thought this game was supposed to not have an I win button, we have been tryn different things, I changed things up but didnt matter in our 2nd match, hopefully the third will be more interesting.
Giving them more spam and having no other changes would be op and yes, that would include taking away the weapon slot to give them the hangar...NOW I said it the word OP
See how easy it is to just call someone a noob and that they dont know what they are doing? This thread is pointless...
"They come here and cry and complain about this and that. They don't rationally talk about what should be fixed, how it is overpowered and a logical way it could work better. Intead, they scream doom and claim false ideals to be true."
ROFL!! i guess its to much to ask for people to actually real my posts around here, tell me, did you read my posts in here or just attack me cause you saw i was as fed player in the klingon secton? This This is whats wrong with this thread. I was stating a personal experience not calling the ship op mind you, but the idea they want to do imo would be.
I said people, not you specifically. If you are assuming that it is implied to be about YOU, then maybe you are guilty of that which you claim to not be?
Didn't you say you won't be playing Fed vs Klingon PvP until they fix it? I didn't notice any patch notes saynig it was fixed.
I didn't say all Fed were noobs. But the majority of those posting are new to PvP. The largest issue with PvP period is the lack of people willing to teach and train players to play better. They are too afraid to give away their top secret builds and afraid that one day this person might be better than them. So some player comes in from a pure PvE experience and gets killed over and over. They come here and complain, someone else decides they must be right and the next thing you know there is a 50 page thread about something that isn't broken.
The trend continnues, the PvP is so broken right now that you can spend only a couple of minutes looking at the PvP forums and see it. Why has this happened? Hmm....maybe from what i said above. People not trying to learn to combat tactics, or trying to find out what beats something else effectively. They just come and complain.
If you aren't one of those people, then why are you defending yourself?
You'r talking about spam - what do you think would another hangar change?
Nothing cause the ammount of fighters and BoPs are limited regardless of how many hangers you have.
Nobody was asking for more fighters - that's what you imply.
And yes - I do fly with and against skilled players.
And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills.
But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive?
6 to 12 escorts or science? So... don't brother me with your lolskills.
Skill and the right team and a proper communication and you will allways win.
what do you think would another hangar change?...Im thinking a hangar would hold ships...ships that you dont control to me is spam
"And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills."
I never said the carrier was OP I did say we were looking into how to defeat the strategy. but thanks for the use better skills, it helps.
"But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive? " Very long actually, Like I said we did a 5 vs 5 and they lost 2 ships in the match. You can do it.
What I dont get is why people here are SLAMMING the carrier and saying it always dies, maybe thats your experience but all I did was say how we *a team of players on vent, had a match with other team of players 100% chance of them on vent* got totally nailed.* got killed and you guys are just adamant that it doesnt work at all...I just dont get it...
If you aren't one of those people, then why are you defending yourself?
typically when having a conversation and I say people, its referring to the people in the room with me, or this case to the people in the thread. or I would have said other people. secondly I have played 1 other pvp match after the posting of saying I dont want to play pvp against klingons until its fixed...and I did so cause my fleet needed another person or the other fleet would have a member sit out to make it even.
This sounds like a disguised nerf to me...there is a cap on the number of fighters you can have active at any one time...and if that cap does NOT change, then you could have 10 million hangers...it just would not matter...because you can only have 18 fighters active.
That means that these extra hangers would essentially be useless...because the actual number of fighters you could have active would not change. About the only benefit you might see is that you could theoretically replace fighter losses faster...but the truth is that if you want to get rid of fighters...shoot down the carrier. Very much cost efficient.
And consider this...if carrier spam is not a problem...then adding two more bays...and increasing the cap to say...24 fighters, does what exactly? It gives carrier pilots the pre-nerf cap, but at the expense of practically all of the carrier's weapons. Sheesh. That sounds like a major nerf to me.
However, since we are on the topic of carrier weapons...I do have some ideas that I think could enhance carrier play. It seems to me that carrier weaponry is not treated properly at all. Our carriers are big platforms...and I think that they deserve weapons that are unique to big capital ships....things like...
1. A spinal mount or railgun. Something that throws big chunks of iron at a very, very fast speed...that does a LOT of damage if it manages to connect...
2. Long-range self-guided drones -- ship killers.
3. Close-in support weapons that act as anti-mine and anti-fighter (MVAM, Saucer, Scorpion, and even ships that get too close...like 2 klicks or so) weapons.
4. Advanced weapons electronics that allow targets to be engaged and fired on with main carrier batteries at extended ranges...perhaps 15 k or so.
5. "Heavy" versions of our beam weapons that do more damage than regular sized beam weapons, and perhaps have a bit more range as well.
I am sure that there are other ideas...but the point is that carriers are truly unique platforms...and they should have weapons that no other ship is large enough to even mount...and those weapons should directly complement fighter operations. As such..the carrier could be a long-range combat support vessel, providing heavy fire at extended ranges during a fleet action.
I think you get the idea...
I also think that...
1. If SPAM is not a problem..then carriers should be returned to their pre-nerf fighter and BoP caps...also, the launch rates should probably be looked at again, with the intent to make them cycle a bit faster.
2. Fighters, BoPs, and any "pet" that is launched from a carrier platform should be able to be controlled directly by the player.
3. More hangar diversity.
4. Damage buffed for both fighters and BoPs
5. An increase in the acquisition and launch ranges...perhaps from 15 to 25.
Just some thoughts....I know that if all of this got implemented, there would be heck to pay, since quite frankly, some of this is overpowered, and I know that...but that does not dismiss the fact that these are good starting points for ideas. I especially like the idea of carrier-only weaponry. I think that would do a great deal to make this class of vessel far more attractive to players, and it would do a lot for the game, as well.
Comments
But turning it in to an overgrown cruiser is not the answer.
No it doesn't, because then it wouldn't be a carrier.
There are other reasons as well but i cba to explain them.
I would like HIM to play fed vs kdf where they X4 use a lot of spam, energy syphon, bops, and the scorpions throw in a bop or the battle cloak guy and all they do is confuse you and heal the other carriers around them...NOT FUN especially when for the 3rd time a HY shot went after a fighter or other spam.
IF they do something like this how about they can only heal pets of use the heal on self. and on top of that take scorpions and energy sphons off the list of things that can be directed to when you are confused. Because this wasnt fun at all.
Honestly after that match im not doing fed vs klingon pvp anymore until its fixed...now you want to give them more spam...FAIL
lol, a fed that doesn't use B:FAW or C:SV? O.o
Where the heck are ppl like you when i pvp!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
PvP is totaly different from PvE fix PvP!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
Yes, SS1, FP2, and RSP 2 for anti-FAW,
"I hope you'll apologize my vacabulary," No I wont, your insulting me cause that guy said I dont use CSV? Hes not psychic
FAW and or CSV...(I was on a defiant R) only does so much, sure it takes care of some of the spam quikly especially the energy drains, witch by the way can be very effective, but huge amounts of spam and constantly being confused and chain healing made for a land slide pvp match, we got 2 in our match, and yes we had vent, yes we lost a good sci player due to server issues but it was brutal
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
Again, carriers are not overpowered, TO MANY is if played against a scrub team.
A well played set group for example would laugh themselves silly if they came up against a carrier heavy team.
Even if that carrier team were also a set group.
Carriers are insanely pet dependent if they want to do well, but all it takes is 2 or 3 cruisers with FAW to render them useless.
And as much as i applaud feds that isn't using FAW (because that means i can kill them) i can't say anything else then suit yourselves if they don't.
Yes, a carrier can if left alone to launch all the fighters deal some respectable DPS, but still no where NEAR the same as your defiant R.
So lets nerf the defiant R shall we?
A carrier is supposed to be powerful, it is after all, according to the info "the biggest most powerful ship in the klingon fleet". But the new FAW has made it worthless.
about what? all I said was that I do indeed use CRF are you calling me a liar? or that large amounts of spam is effective? or that we used vent? or we were a team?
"but the new faw has made it worthless"
so you could have been civil and said use faw its totally op and you would have won. I do use CSV but i guess i can ditch the defiant r and get a faw boat...
And what will happen when they nerf faw and have even more annoying spam? fights and enery draining probes arent bad but when your sensors are constantly switching you around its annoying and you have to force change every 5 seconds the spam is a "meat shield" for the very strong cruisers.
To give you an advanced hint - the difiant R is an escort with a romulan cloakingdevice and you can say it's on paar or even better than a BoP on the same tier. So what is your opponent?
1) The biggest ship in the whole damn STO universe
2) The slowest (flying and turning) ship in the whole damn STO universe
3) The only ship that is dependent on its support ships.
4) The only KDF ship that can't hide (I don't count Orion or the other garbage a KDF ship)
5) The only science ship that Cryptic cripled to the state that you can't miss the sign "shoot me first".
So all you do is looking for an excuse for your unsurpassed disability to change your playstyle depending on the situation.
SS does not only affect you. Did you read the patch notes?
In case you'r SS'ed... you've got those greenish lights around you. Maybe you should take it as a hint to not switch targets wild or activate a power that could heal your target. You also could select your target by secting it with your mouse? (That's what I do in case I got SS'ed and my pet's kill themself).
You could think about a counter strategy - maybe concentrated fire on one target? Target Subsystems? Gravity Well? Scramble Sensors? What ever... you don't have to use FAW or CSV to be effective against pets.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
but if they can give the carriers Flotilla targeting abilities (like science ships have system tarting) this could solve some of the problems with the carrier limitation.
For the people that say carriers are weak:
If it wasn't for the support ships around our current carriers, a WW2 sub would save a good chance of sinking it (of course with modern torpedoes).
Including YOU.
You assume that these sub-hangars would be more powerful or game breaking. They haven't been tested. They haven't even been made. They are surely not something that would be done anytime 'soon", and you are dismissing them (along with many others) based upon the current state of the game.
Instead, you could be more logical, and you could discuss what needs to change in game to make such a thing fit. Honestly, it's the people like you, and not just in this thread, who are the reason these bad changes were made in the first place.
They come here and cry and complain about this and that. They don't rationally talk about what should be fixed, how it is overpowered and a logical way it could work better. Intead, they scream doom and claim false ideals to be true.
Racism is surely rampant on these forums. Federation players seem to hate the Klingons and vice versa, regardless of cause or reason. I rarely see anyone discuss the topic from both sides, logically, or even from one side reasonably. They just start insulting and claiming the others are out of balance.
The main reason Feds don't like the Carrier is because they don't have one. I have flown a Carrier my entire General Career, even when it was reduced to a floating target that more often than not cost my team points.
You can tell there are so many more Fed players than Klingons because everytime you turn around a Klingon ship is being reduced. What I find supremely funny is that Fed vs Fed PvP is almost always full, where getting in a game with Klingons is hard as hell, but there is enough data among the community to say that something is overpowered on the Klingon side. You get your butts handed to you once and it's because the KDF is overpowered, not becasue you were on a bad team or maybe just didn't have the better skills. I will attest that on Klingon side I see us lose more than we win. The only time I can usually expect to win is in a Capture and Hold match. It's like the Feds never even try to catpure points, they are too busy blowing up ships. I can attest that that statement is also true as a Fed player. I am always yelling at the team to capture points because they just ignore them. In arena matches...9 out of 10 times the Feds win. I play Sci on Fed side. I fly the D'kyr. I can usually beat a carrier 1v1 without too much effort. They have the largest hulls in the game typically, but my little low DPS Sci ship can tear them down with relative ease.
There are few who are tough, but most are just floating tin. The few who aren't...yeah, they get accused of being OP every match they win. They aren't OP. It's just some loser doesn't know what he's doing, he thinks PvP is PvE and he gets his hat handed to him becasue he can't accomodate for the difference. Then he comes here and QQ's that Carriers are OP, that cloak is OP and that anything else he doesn't use or like is OP. He never tests it out. Never tres to learn how to beat it.
Want to verify that something is overpowered, do some 1v1 matches. Try your ship out against someone else. Try some different builds and see if you still believe that. No, it's easier to come here and complain and demand changes that aren't neccessary.
You know why PvP is so broken...that's why. Cryptic gives into the majority, which are sadly typically uneducated about the facts and just spew whatever someone else said. Sheep. Sit in a crowded place and glance around. Then look at your watch. Now look around again. Watch how many people also glance at their watch. The guy who doesn't...that's the one I want to ask about things.
KDF players spend more time in PvP. They have to. That's how they get equipment. So it stands to reason that practice makes a better player...and that the KDF is more practiced than FED. Funny, you can repeat that a million times...no one considers it.
So...when the KDF is nerfed, down to the last ship, so badly that they all quit...that they are like fighting NPC ships 10 levels under you...what will you do then? Stop playing becasue it's boring to have no challenge? Come and QQ that it's not a challenge? QQ cause there are no more KDF players and you can't get in a match?
All the above...probably. Then what, you just go to FED PvP and forget it. So why not do that now? Why not just go into FED vs FED and leave the KDF alone? See how long you last there, how long it takes before you start asking for changes to your OWN side of the game.
Wait...that would be logical. We can't have any of that.
"There are few who are tough, but most are just floating tin. The few who aren't...yeah, they get accused of being OP every match they win. They aren't OP. It's just some loser doesn't know what he's doing, he thinks PvP is PvE and he gets his hat handed to him becasue he can't accomodate for the difference. Then he comes here and QQ's that Carriers are OP, that cloak is OP and that anything else he doesn't use or like is OP. He never tests it out. Never tres to learn how to beat it."
your saying the feds are noobs when the carriers win and cry about it...Im saying the carriers are Very strong in groups and if they klingons know what they are doing they can dominate...
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Atari Community Rules and Policies ~<GM Jahia>
That's maybe the best quote... from someone who never flew a carrier vs a skilled player/team.
No carrier aren't OP. It all depends on ypur oponent and you are no match at all.
And I'm still all against FvF cause it killed the whole PvP idea in STO cause since they started it those players lost the ground based for their insults. They just screem what they think without ever made a good ammount "tests" with different setups. I'm sorry but STO isn't canon nor balanced but QQing about that the carrier may be OP is the same as to grumble about the current weather.
PS: To you forum mods - next time edit a posting to it's meaning instead to grab a line and delete everything else.
And to those who calim to be a DEV - how about to write a line about the current state of the development and what we have to expect. It's annoying to write bugrepots en mass or discuss ideas to improve the game and never get a response.
PPS: Why do I never see a GM ingame but in this thread as a MOD?
I'd be careful saying anything to the mods here, especially like that.
And taking my quote out of context doesnt help your argument either.
I believe my first comment was that I would like them to test it first, because when used in large ammounts (large amounts of carriers that is) they can be used very effective, giving them more pets sounds like a bad idea. Now if there was a change in tandem with this one they should state it cause otherwise to think that some other magical change of balance will come out is just illogical.
we are talking about one update, specifically more spam on carriers. The point I brought up is in groups they can be used very effectively already.
I think the best part of this "conversation" is that I never said the carrier was OP...if you actually read what I said, they did something very effective. we havent found a good way to combat the strategy yet. What I would hate to see is our team using bfaw 1/2/3 to do it, I mean I thought this game was supposed to not have an I win button, we have been tryn different things, I changed things up but didnt matter in our 2nd match, hopefully the third will be more interesting.
Giving them more spam and having no other changes would be op and yes, that would include taking away the weapon slot to give them the hangar...NOW I said it the word OP
See how easy it is to just call someone a noob and that they dont know what they are doing? This thread is pointless...
"They come here and cry and complain about this and that. They don't rationally talk about what should be fixed, how it is overpowered and a logical way it could work better. Intead, they scream doom and claim false ideals to be true."
ROFL!! i guess its to much to ask for people to actually real my posts around here, tell me, did you read my posts in here or just attack me cause you saw i was as fed player in the klingon secton? This This is whats wrong with this thread. I was stating a personal experience not calling the ship op mind you, but the idea they want to do imo would be.
Nothing cause the ammount of fighters and BoPs are limited regardless of how many hangers you have.
Nobody was asking for more fighters - that's what you imply.
And yes - I do fly with and against skilled players.
And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills.
But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive?
6 to 12 escorts or science? So... don't brother me with your lolskills.
Skill and the right team and a proper communication and you will allways win.
I said people, not you specifically. If you are assuming that it is implied to be about YOU, then maybe you are guilty of that which you claim to not be?
Didn't you say you won't be playing Fed vs Klingon PvP until they fix it? I didn't notice any patch notes saynig it was fixed.
I didn't say all Fed were noobs. But the majority of those posting are new to PvP. The largest issue with PvP period is the lack of people willing to teach and train players to play better. They are too afraid to give away their top secret builds and afraid that one day this person might be better than them. So some player comes in from a pure PvE experience and gets killed over and over. They come here and complain, someone else decides they must be right and the next thing you know there is a 50 page thread about something that isn't broken.
The trend continnues, the PvP is so broken right now that you can spend only a couple of minutes looking at the PvP forums and see it. Why has this happened? Hmm....maybe from what i said above. People not trying to learn to combat tactics, or trying to find out what beats something else effectively. They just come and complain.
If you aren't one of those people, then why are you defending yourself?
what do you think would another hangar change?...Im thinking a hangar would hold ships...ships that you dont control to me is spam
"And yes - there's allways a way to crack 6 and even 12 carriers. You just have to use your skills."
I never said the carrier was OP I did say we were looking into how to defeat the strategy. but thanks for the use better skills, it helps.
"But what about 6 to 12 cruisers? 8 Beams each? How long do you think could a carrier survive? " Very long actually, Like I said we did a 5 vs 5 and they lost 2 ships in the match. You can do it.
What I dont get is why people here are SLAMMING the carrier and saying it always dies, maybe thats your experience but all I did was say how we *a team of players on vent, had a match with other team of players 100% chance of them on vent* got totally nailed.* got killed and you guys are just adamant that it doesnt work at all...I just dont get it...
typically when having a conversation and I say people, its referring to the people in the room with me, or this case to the people in the thread. or I would have said other people. secondly I have played 1 other pvp match after the posting of saying I dont want to play pvp against klingons until its fixed...and I did so cause my fleet needed another person or the other fleet would have a member sit out to make it even.
That means that these extra hangers would essentially be useless...because the actual number of fighters you could have active would not change. About the only benefit you might see is that you could theoretically replace fighter losses faster...but the truth is that if you want to get rid of fighters...shoot down the carrier. Very much cost efficient.
And consider this...if carrier spam is not a problem...then adding two more bays...and increasing the cap to say...24 fighters, does what exactly? It gives carrier pilots the pre-nerf cap, but at the expense of practically all of the carrier's weapons. Sheesh. That sounds like a major nerf to me.
However, since we are on the topic of carrier weapons...I do have some ideas that I think could enhance carrier play. It seems to me that carrier weaponry is not treated properly at all. Our carriers are big platforms...and I think that they deserve weapons that are unique to big capital ships....things like...
1. A spinal mount or railgun. Something that throws big chunks of iron at a very, very fast speed...that does a LOT of damage if it manages to connect...
2. Long-range self-guided drones -- ship killers.
3. Close-in support weapons that act as anti-mine and anti-fighter (MVAM, Saucer, Scorpion, and even ships that get too close...like 2 klicks or so) weapons.
4. Advanced weapons electronics that allow targets to be engaged and fired on with main carrier batteries at extended ranges...perhaps 15 k or so.
5. "Heavy" versions of our beam weapons that do more damage than regular sized beam weapons, and perhaps have a bit more range as well.
I am sure that there are other ideas...but the point is that carriers are truly unique platforms...and they should have weapons that no other ship is large enough to even mount...and those weapons should directly complement fighter operations. As such..the carrier could be a long-range combat support vessel, providing heavy fire at extended ranges during a fleet action.
I think you get the idea...
I also think that...
1. If SPAM is not a problem..then carriers should be returned to their pre-nerf fighter and BoP caps...also, the launch rates should probably be looked at again, with the intent to make them cycle a bit faster.
2. Fighters, BoPs, and any "pet" that is launched from a carrier platform should be able to be controlled directly by the player.
3. More hangar diversity.
4. Damage buffed for both fighters and BoPs
5. An increase in the acquisition and launch ranges...perhaps from 15 to 25.
Just some thoughts....I know that if all of this got implemented, there would be heck to pay, since quite frankly, some of this is overpowered, and I know that...but that does not dismiss the fact that these are good starting points for ideas. I especially like the idea of carrier-only weaponry. I think that would do a great deal to make this class of vessel far more attractive to players, and it would do a lot for the game, as well.