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ATTN: PVPers
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
As most of you know I don't post on the forums very often; however, those of you who PVP and actively participate in the OPVP chat channel know me quite well.
It has come to my attention that our actions have caused some grief among some of the GMs and Devs.
When we embarked on our journey to gain the attention of the developers, we did not have the goal of ****ing them off or making them hate their job or us in mind, our goal was to get their attention pointed our way so we could get the rightful development and balance we so craved.
We have gotten their attention; so I implore you PVPers, when the devs are keenly aware of a situation, they are actively pursuing a way to repair the issue and satisfy our demands.
It will take time, it will be a while, but the devs have always addressed the community's issues whenever we brought it to their attention. I.E. Bridge officer swapping, scatter volley, viral matrix, snb, fbp, etc. So cut them some slack and be patient, screaming at them won't make the fix come any faster.
Any further ranting, raving, trolling, spamming, etc. will be detrimental to the situation and to our reputation. It also might actually cause the fix to take longer due to certain administrative members leaving.
Be nice to the devs and suport staff, for the sake of STO's future development.
It has come to my attention that our actions have caused some grief among some of the GMs and Devs.
When we embarked on our journey to gain the attention of the developers, we did not have the goal of ****ing them off or making them hate their job or us in mind, our goal was to get their attention pointed our way so we could get the rightful development and balance we so craved.
We have gotten their attention; so I implore you PVPers, when the devs are keenly aware of a situation, they are actively pursuing a way to repair the issue and satisfy our demands.
It will take time, it will be a while, but the devs have always addressed the community's issues whenever we brought it to their attention. I.E. Bridge officer swapping, scatter volley, viral matrix, snb, fbp, etc. So cut them some slack and be patient, screaming at them won't make the fix come any faster.
Any further ranting, raving, trolling, spamming, etc. will be detrimental to the situation and to our reputation. It also might actually cause the fix to take longer due to certain administrative members leaving.
Be nice to the devs and suport staff, for the sake of STO's future development.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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The devs listen. They act. It takes its time.
Don't stop reporting issues, don't stop suggesting ideas. Don't become destructive and spiteful. Cryptic is as interested as us in getting the game right in all aspects, but they can't do it all at once. But as long as we stay on the ball, present creative ideas, make our suggestions, provide constructive critique, they will keep us in mind positively, and they will help us not just out of a sense of responsibilty, but also because we're fun and cool to have around, improve the community and the game with our insights and ideas...
That still doesn't mean I don't want new PvP maps and modes ASAP.
While we have the right to complain (I too am guilty of this), there are more constructive ways to express one's opinion on the forums, so complaining might be better reserved for in-game chat.
From what I've gathered, the devs appreciate suggestions about specific changes and possible methods of implementing them. Constructive threads tend to lead to constructive discussion and if there's a specific issue addressed clearly and succinctly, people might be more willing to respond to that specific issue rather than making general sweeping statements about Cryptic. I'm willing to bet it makes Cryptic's job easier and more efficient if people are agreeing/disagreeing (voting, if you will) on how/whether something should be done about said issue instead of just crying OP/imbalance.
Kissing up to the devs wouldn't benefit me at all - but I'm still gonna have to take their side on this one and urge everyone to give them a break.
I think what you are seeing is a group of paying customers that actually care about the game and see the tremendous potential it has getting fed up. They really are doing a substandard job handling the PvP front from top to bottom right now.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
There have been a few who have been downright disrespectful, and while I agree we need to be more civil, I've given the devs several months of slack to show me something new to PvP.
Instead, I resub and find things as stagnant as ever on the PvP side of things. No new maps, no major changes, same freaking bugs (and a buncha new ones), and not a single change to the status quo. PvPers have left in droves, and while I desperately wanted to be optimistic about one of my favorite IPs, I find I've run outta faith.
Instead of discourse, I see walls. I see "we'll get back to you on that" and "we have this planned for the future" or "we don't see what you're talking about" when even videos of the topics are posted. I see nitpicking rules enforced that blow back on their own loyal customers, the majority of which meant no disrespect. This isn't a forum of open ideas, it's where ideas go to die.
The reason things have turned so nasty is that there's no direction on this board. Once in a while someone drops by to chime in the discussion or let us no what's up, but it happens so rarely, people start eating each other, or badmouthing the powers that be.
Stagnation leads to death, and we're pretty much on a straight track there. Maybe I'll resub again in several more months and be pleasantly surprised.
I won't hold my breath though.
the main reason i play this game is that devs listen to players more here than any other mmo i have played. the "i want it now" attitude needs to be tempered with reality. remember launch? want them to just rush a bunch of stuff to just toss it in game?
its far better to add content on a steady pace and in due time after testing. To rush, work thru bug reports, wade thru posts here (by the same folks that complain about the lack of content and fixes), and rework, fix or redo content is counter productive.
lets stay focused and mature and try to work together to get the pvp features we all want to see in the game. so take a deep breath and relax. keep asking good questions to devs about pvp so we can get good answers. it will take some time but there is some light to be seen in the eng. report.
/rant off... do the same
I think this is a good example of a percetion problem. The moderators are not developers. We tend to lump them all together, but they aren't the same, and they have very different responsbilities.
I don't think the Devs have any moderation rights at all, and the GMs definitely don't write any code for the game. The GMs are mostly here to identify the threads where jackboots, closings and suspensions are required. They will always get a negative image due their responsiblities. GM replies are generally not a sign of effective communication with Cryptic. They are a sign things have gone out of hand and we are mostly on a "meta" level of discussion, e.g. we are not discussion whether certain ideas are good, but whether the way we discuss is good.
That said, we did also get direct - and utlimately positive - feedback in the past by the devs. Snix and Chaddington posted on threads here and directly talked about issues we had and what they will be doing about them. Of course we would want more direct responses, and more insights about the future planning.
But I suppose we won't get much more details then the Engineering Reports provide:
The following PvP related stuff was mentioned in the latest Engineering Report:
Still too much of the really interesting stuff in the Long Term section. But the In Design stuff included the Season 4 episodes...
LOL are you serious?
You are either blind or sucking up to the devs.
Lets review the game, shall we.
It has been released 13 months ago, and in that time there have been no PvP content additions and even some of it was taken away (assault map).
You say they are fixing the bugs constantly and we should praise them for it? That's why we pay to play, this game is not free and for our money, which can be taken elsewhere just as easily, we have a RIGHT to demand quality service, and not praise the ones who sold us a half finished product which they are constantly trying to fix and bring up to standards where it should have been at release.
You say they listen to their players? Heh sure they do, they listen to their PVE players and about pvp ones, well who cares i guess, there isnt many of us left to warrant attention. Before the pvp forum upheaval we had one dev response here in months while the pve forums are flooded with them , and when we finally razed our voices because 13 months of neglect only mods responded and mostly with massive bans.
They even banned people who exposed one of the biggest exploits this game has seen from release on the excuse that others will try to recreate it! How i wonder, when no one ever told how to do it, not here not in Opvp.
Not to mention slaping the face of the pvp community with every patch doing exacly what we told them we dont want. SPAM anyone?
So we should be patient and wait for pvp content for how long? one more month, six, a few years, all the while paying for the game?? Heh i think not.
And the latest from the new Engineering report:
Long Term
Designs and features being considered for updates further in the future
* More PVP Maps
* Territory Control Game
Nice, long term again for the pvp-ers, well i guess I'll put my subscription renewal plans for long term advisement also.
Shanty town seems like an addition to me. but im only using commen sense so i could be wroung.
Lol ground.
Although i want to respond with a common LoL ground i will not and will say this:
You should also use you common sense and try to determine how many of the pvp playerbase actually plays ground and which atracts more players to this game ground or space.
And even if we count that ground map as addition to the whole pvp gameplay its only one map, in 13 MONTHS!
You see that as enough and fair? Realy? Realy??
Even if "steady" content release would mean new contentonly every 6 months.
Maybe all the balance tweaks let them loose sight of this aspect, certainy it did cost them time and resources. The balancing is naturelly fuled majorly by the PvP community (Borg don't whine), but it has to be an ongoing process that happens parallel to everything else, and it cannot satisfy the needs for content.
Even if the game isn't perfect now, and we need to get the spam under control, I think beyond that point, we should push the balancing tweaks further in the background and focus on PvP content and PvP "peripherals", like:
Except this one, of course.
Its the last since I had to reply to say I'll speak no more of it.
So now no more of it.
May clearer minds prevail.
Edit: ok I tried but its hard to be civil in an unruly situation where one is cast as the sinner with no evidence to back it up.
Yes Shanty Town was an add for the 12 people, (hyberbole) that actually plays ground PvP because it has been an atrocious abortion (again Hyperbole) since launch just with game geometry glitches and exploits. I with many on here the only way we seem to get seen is if we throw a tantrum.
We are not asking for fixes to new bugs NOW we are asking for fixes to old bugs NOW, you know the not to be named exploit, plus others that have been brought forth. I still have issues with certain things in ground combat since launch, the stuck in firing animation, every character I have gets it, and I can only use melee weapons and some energy because it has spread from the sniper rifle it originally started on. Or the hey on my sovvy the deflector is gold now but my saucer still shows blue lighting effects or the 987098709870 ship name bug. They all are little bugs that individually are insignificant but when you put them together this game starts to enter Ford Pinto territory.
The Mods have been a little heavy handed, I know their job is not easy I have moderated a few dozen interwebz forum sites so I understand but they seem to have forgotten one thing, they are the voice of reason. They cannot let attacks effect them on a personal level. While we the community responds with emotion Mods need to respond with reason, sometimes reason lets things slightly outside the rules slide because the point is good. The mods as of late have responded with the same emotion, it seems, as the community has responded to them.
/signed
I agree the direct attack is childish and totally uncalled for but this is what happens when the person in charge of the game makes his rounds through the forum and NEVER stops in on the PVP section. DStahl has made 50 something posts in the forum since the begining of the month unfortunately none have taken place in the PVP section and there have been many issues that I am sure if they were handled correctly, 95% of this could have been avoided. Communication goes a long way.....lack there of creates ambiguity!
HUH ? Adding content, where ???? That I think is one of the main issues with Space PVP , there has been absolutley no new content E V E R for the Space PVP community period and the game has been out over a year, exactly how long are we supposed to hang on here. Sorry bug fixes and repairing things I can't talk about or receive a infraction are not content...
Seriously I wish they would just tell us that they have nothing planned and most if not all would move on to some other game even though a lot of us have a lot of money invested in this game through subs and c-store purchases!
Again its a perception issue, DStahl has never answered a single space pvp question that I can recall in the "ask cryptic" monthly questioner. Tell me that doesn't speak volumes, and you wonder why the pvp community is upset, come on, give me a break!
How long exactly is long term, 3 months, 6 months, a year or even 2 years. All the while we are supposed to chill and continue paying for the same TRIBBLE we have had since launch ? Yeah right!
Chill LMAO! I would like some straight answers and have have the developers stop side-stepping and get to the nitty-gritty!
Please tell me whats positive about space pvp at this time ? Things can't get much slower than nonexistant can they ?
Edited to add last comment...
Anyway, I believe that we have shown more than enough patience in the past year. But now it's running out for most of us.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines and Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy ~WishStone
Oh Look, there's my seat in the back.
You can start the bus again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ypZSJ2_RDY
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines and Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy ~WishStone
Whammy
You do realize the game has been out for over a year now right? "I want it now attitude" you say? Really? It's been over a year and they can't even introduce a new map or new scenario type? People have universally complained about NPC spam in scenarios and yet they just keep pumping out more and more of it. There are also some very serious exploitable issues that people have been bringing up for a loooong time now with no response. For the record I want to say love and peace and look at the pretty ponies with rainbows blah blah blah.....that was my attempt at being nice and hopefully not getting my post deleted.
Yes, but the difference is this time they are actually taking a good solid look at what's going on in PVP, they used to just glance over, and ignore us for the most part. Now that we've finally got their attention, I think any further "look at me" posts won't help.
Unfortunately, the way we've been going about it is only getting us attention from the GM's.
We are a SMALL part of this game. I think most of us feel the only reason why is that there has been no development of the PVP aspect of the game since release. WE LOVE THIS GAME. Space PVP has so much potential, & we feel that potential is being wasted. It is frustrating to sit in Eti Eridani, & see a sector full of ships, & only have 6 people in the PVP ques. It is frustrating to spend over 1000 hours practicing your technique & hone your PVP skills to a razors edge, only to have everyone assume that you are just cheating. It is frustrating to see all of your in game PVP friends leave to play other games, because they are bored with the same old STO routine. & It is frustrating to be silenced for expressing your opinion. In short, we're frustrated.
Throwing that frustration in Cryptics face is only going to cause anger all around.It makes us seem childish to those who are passionate about different aspects of the game.We feel colored underoos are not important to the game, but apparently they are to some people.Some people play this game because of the immense customization options for their avatar.
Some think PVE is challenging.
Some even like to do ground PVP.:rolleyes:
I wish Cryptic would realize, as we all seem to, that PVP is the end game. Properly done, It could keep people interested for years.With the foundry coming live soon, PVE content will be practically limitless, I hope that some resources are put into PVP after that happens, as i feel any investment in PVP will offer huge returns in retaining the player base.
But then, I'm not a game designer, just a consumer, so I could be totally wrong.
in short, i agree with Santa.
So no coal for me this year please:D
I have seen Dev posts in the PVP section; I see statements about PVP/Territory control on Ask Cryptic. I can see that there are issues with doing something like that, so I know its not going to happen overnight.
I would love to see Mr. Stahl address his statement about the open PVP/territory control mechanism that he posted about last ask Cryptic. I dont think he will, because of some of the unique people, who live under the bridges in the PVP forums.
I dont blame the Devs for not coming on the PVP forums to discuss things, just reading the PVP forums I get full of enough wine and cheese, also everything tends to get flame broiled over and over again. I dont know what it is about PVPers, sometimes we are our own worst enemies, this thread proves it.
The fact that they continue playing this game when at the same time they ve recieved no attention whatsoever proves how dedicated they actually are.
Maybe the devs know this all to well to ignore us.
We ve become nothing but barking dogs that get pimp slapped to the ground in game and in here.:(
1. Then balance as best as they can based on top Tier Rank (with the understanding this will be an never ending battle).
2. Fix fun factor if needed. For example if the majority of players don't like spam, then reduce it. If instant hull heals are an issue address this. If abilities induce noticable lag adjust them. Then go back to priority 2.
4. Expand capabilities (such as Open PvP sectors, Fleet owned stations, etc). Then return to priority 1.
Without fixing exploits it will be next to impossible to balance as someone will span Nerf XYZ when it's really exploits which have thrown things out of whack. Without balancing the expanded capabilities would result in one set of builds or worse 1 faction having an "I Win" button of sorts.
Imo, the priorities for players should be:
1. Test different counters to setups you believe are OP'd in a non exploit environment before calling for balance Nerf.
2. If something doesn't seem fun, suggest a way to make it fun rather than just calling for its removal.
3. Keep in mind many people enjoy PvE and consider impact on their gameplay style when crafting a suggestion for expanded gameplay.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines and Cryptic Studios Infraction Policy ~WishStone