the feds have multi vector they dont need carriers, but i feel even though your a kdf player your soul logic is on klingon gameplay. i dont play the kdf for the klingons or the klingon empire. i play this game as an orion and nausicaan. i fight to further my race's hold on the universe and to advance us in the war.
the klingons fight for honor. i fight for prestige profit and vengence. and disalowing my races tech simply to encompase the klingons is wrong as the kdf isnt just the klingons, the kdf is a collection of races bringing there individual strengths to win the war just like the federation is a collection of races todo the same to us.
the only difference is the federation fall under one authority where the kdf answer to the high council to a degree yet follow there own races leaders aswell.
Actually, I am fighting against homogenizing the factions, which is what is being asked for on both sides of the fence. I have an Orion character (I admittedly don't use her much, though). I might make a Naussicaan. Playing a Gorn is tempting. I don't ignore the non-Klingons when I try to make arguments for making the KDF better. I thought that the new race-specific ships were pretty damn cool looking. I never once said that non-Klingons can't have stuff. What I'm saying is that people look at the other side of the fence and think that it's greener over there, get jealous, and want what their neighbor has without thinking things through.
we arnt looking at the other side of the fence though are we, we are looking at this side of the fence and seeing someone has stolen half the garden. representing each races tech within the kdf isnt going to blend them with the feds if anything it will unblend us from being klingon puppets simply working for master and being gratefull for it. the kdf asked our races or forced there hands to help because they need us for this war and in such they would expect us to bring our strengths to the fore to win not simply want us as manpower to there ships.
our races ships are out ther in game right now in all there varients, to not give them to the players playing that race is wrong and i dont mean all the varients but some of them should be a given if not they should simply make every race npc in game that is in the kdf fly the ships available to the kdf players as depriving the races within the kdf implys that the races themselves dont have ships of there own and need to use klingon ships.
1.: We have 2 unique kind of ships and we always wantet to KEEP those. There were a lot of discussions about federation wich, luckily, didnt come.
The Sci-Ship should have remained a Fed-exclusive. Dont even like one beeing there at t5. I would even like LESS having one on every level.
2.: We have already very little ships there, where the major part of the game takes place; at t5. We also have little missions, almost no costumes ect ect.
And you really want Cryptic to invest the little resources they invest in the KDF anyway.... into low-level ships. The price would be less content where we need it; in the end-content-area.
1.: We have 2 unique kind of ships and we always wantet to KEEP those. There were a lot of discussions about federation wich, luckily, didnt come.
The Sci-Ship should have remained a Fed-exclusive. Dont even like one beeing there at t5. I would even like LESS having one on every level.
2.: We have already very little ships there, where the major part of the game takes place; at t5. We also have little missions, almost no costumes ect ect.
And you really want Cryptic to invest the little resources they invest in the KDF anyway.... into low-level ships. The price would be less content where we need it; in the end-content-area.
No, we need stuff at all levels. Only having more at the top end is only good for those who are already playing KDF and already maxed out. Without spreading the love throughout all the levels, we will not draw more players to the faction. Without more folks joining the KDF to counter and even reverse the continued dwindling of the KDF player-base, the devs will have less and less reason to bother adding more to the KDF. As it is dtahl has said he steers the ship mostly towards the Feds because of such low KDF numbers. Are you sure, you really want the KDF to grow enough that the devs will be more inclined to equal attention to the KDF? I ask this because, it sounds more like you just want more for yourself at the expense of the faction as a whole.
Ever since they reduced the effectiveness of the Carrier and ther followed this with FAW updates which Federation Cruisers all seem to exploit these days, and the introduction of additional Science Federation ships + special "pure" science ship powers (of which the Klingons have no "pure" science ships), the KDF game experience is like an ever narrowing road. Whatever class you are playing as you have limited options; very limited. I have not seen a single Veranus Fleet Support Vessel or the B'rel because their PvP capability is neligiable. I flew the Marauder and chucked it almost immediately. It was a jumbo-white-elephant with a bulls-eye painted on its TRIBBLE. (In my opinion). What I have see alot of is retrofit Federations escorts and Science Ships sporting the latest in "perks" and dev-enthusiasm. If almost feels like someone in some back room is mumbling, "Arh, just give them something. It doesn't matter if it works.... By the way, hows the next Federation ship coming along?"
No, we need stuff at all levels. Only having more at the top end is only good for those who are already playing KDF and already maxed out. Without spreading the love throughout all the levels, we will not draw more players to the faction. Without more folks joining the KDF to counter and even reverse the continued dwindling of the KDF player-base, the devs will have less and less reason to bother adding more to the KDF. As it is dtahl has said he steers the ship mostly towards the Feds because of such low KDF numbers. Are you sure, you really want the KDF to grow enough that the devs will be more inclined to equal attention to the KDF? I ask this because, it sounds more like you just want more for yourself at the expense of the faction as a whole.
I disagree hardly. We level VERY fast. To ask for 4 low tier ships wich get each thrown away after 3 days at max instead of t5 ships wich we actually use for some time is insane.
Mission content or better pvp, that might be something diffrent, although I still believe at last the mission content can be much better done through better rewardet foundry missions.
But the players do not stay away from KDF side because of the lack of ships; the opposite is true; the most players come to KDF side to have cloaked ships and BoPs with universam consoles for a change. The problem is that leveling is just grinding. That wont be solved with new ships.
Also, beside the t3 variants of the Excelsior and nebula and those t1 ships (wich arent played much on KDF side anyway since we start at lvl6) we do not have less ships before t5. (just less skins but thats another topic)....
I disagree hardly. We level VERY fast. To ask for 4 low tier ships wich get each thrown away after 3 days at max instead of t5 ships wich we actually use for some time is insane.
Mission content or better pvp, that might be something diffrent, although I still believe at last the mission content can be much better done through better rewardet foundry missions.
But the players do not stay away from KDF side because of the lack of ships; the opposite is true; the most players come to KDF side to have cloaked ships and BoPs with universam consoles for a change. The problem is that leveling is just grinding. That wont be solved with new ships.
Also, beside the t3 variants of the Excelsior and nebula and those t1 ships (wich arent played much on KDF side anyway since we start at lvl6) we do not have less ships before t5. (just less skins but thats another topic)....
your sniffing something, there is absolutly no reason to race to endgame simply because there is no endgame, the most fun in the game is the travel to top end, the more fun we can get and the more diversity getting there the better, and the only way to level fast in kdf is to repeat things till your eyes bleed, the best way todo it is to take you time and have fun. and your argument is bassed on you think other content should be done when infact that content is being done due to us complaining like hell about it not being done right in the 1st place.
and a new person coming to the kdf who has been bottle fed on federation leveling hit a wall and go crawl back to the fed side. 90% of the true hardcore kdf stopped there subs due to the lack of content and that isnt just top end content, if cryptic want to get those people back and new people to kdf they need to add this type of diversity and content through all the ranks not just at top end where you feel it is your right to TRIBBLE over the kdf just so u have more chance of getting a new model ship.
and you like so many others think everyone who comes to kdf come here to be a klingon varient which is simply not the case and are disheartened when the only option is to be a klingon clone in space.
I say a good counter to the science ship is a carrier, just make more carriers that work throughout the ranks, a small carrier that has only perhaps one hangar and is not super tough.
I say a good counter to the science ship is a carrier, just make more carriers that work throughout the ranks, a small carrier that has only perhaps one hangar and is not super tough.
The importanat feature of the carrier we currently have is the fact that it's a mobile base and docking facility.
It's intended to lead an invasion force into foreign space.
It is equipped to repair and maintain other ships, has better crew facilites etc.
The Klingon 'Vo'Quv' class is a large carrier ship, designed to transport thousands of warriors, capable of anchoring a fleet or leading an invasion. The power in the Vo'Quv allows this class to travel great distances and even remain cloaked while speeding through space or hampering enemy sensors.
Two of the cargo bays in the Vo'Quv can be turned into engineering stations to prepare for battles or repair afterwards. The ships are also equipped with holodecks for training purposes. But the main purpose of these deadly ships is war.
Increased engine efficiency allows the Vo'Quv to travel great distances before the dilithium crystals must be realigned, and the ship carries electronic countermeasures capable of hampering enemy sensors. The Vo'Quv has the energy necessary to use these countermeasures even when cloaked.
After a battle, two of the Vo'Quv's cargo bays can be converted to engineering stations to help a fleet prepare for the next fight. And while no Klingon ship is designed for comfort, the crew of a Vo'Quv enjoys some small luxuries unavailable to warriors on smaller ships, such as holodecks for battle training and stasis units that keep gagh and other live food fresh for extended periods of time.
It is so big to accomondate all those features.
A "mini-me-carrier" would lack those important features.
So the question for me personally as someone who tries not to think "how would I build a ship for the Klingons" but rather "how would the Klingons approach this problem?"is this:
why would they invest vast amounts of resources to build a ship that lacks what a "Klingon carrier" is all about?
I still feel that the term "carrier" was ill-chosen and that "mobile command base" would have been better.
Also, assuming you read my scoutship proposal on the first page, why would Klingons be limited to ships with science slots that turn like...well...that turn better than outposts?
Especially since scout ships were mentioned several times thoughout the shows and also specifically shown with the appearance of the Raptor on "Enterprise".
They were also mentioned in DS9 where they were obviously used in circumstances where others used science ships.
Why not use something that is swift, as is customary for the Klingons who were never really that into big lumbering bricks?
perhaps the smaller versions of the carrier, which, while not a mobile command base, or anything, are for the lower ranks, working their way up. Look at the Kar'fi, its smaller then the Vo'quv, doesn't pack as many fighters, its still a carrier. I'm not asking for a mini-Vo'quv, I'm asking about the possibility of a lower rank carrier. It could be from the other races in the Klingon empire's faction as well.
Perhaps an Orion Carrier, they certainly had a few small fighter like craft historically, as did the nausicans. The Gorn's could easily have a fighter as well, they most likely had large ships as well, with many different classes of ship. They were after all their own empire, while not as strong as the Klingon's, they were far more organized then either the Nausicaans or the Orions.
A smaller carrier for the low ranks makes sense, it cant pack all the **** the Vo'quv has, nor would it be intended to be a replacement.
Also, assuming you read my scoutship proposal on the first page, why would Klingons be limited to ships with science slots that turn like...well...that turn better than outposts?
Especially since scout ships were mentioned several times thoughout the shows and also specifically shown with the appearance of the Raptor on "Enterprise".
They were also mentioned in DS9 where they were obviously used in circumstances where others used science ships.
Why not use something that is swift, as is customary for the Klingons who were never really that into big lumbering bricks?
What, we already have that, its called a Bird of Prey, just load it up with science officers.
What, we already have that, its called a Bird of Prey, just load it up with science officers.
Been there, done that, bought that t-shirt.
I'd prefer to travel both in style and in a ship with more science consoles than a Raptor or a Battlecruisr.
I'v been annoyed with the "we didn't bother to give you guys a rounded fleet, use the Bird of Prey instead" approach we had since...ever.
And we know the KDF has those ships.
In DS9 they specifically said "Klingon scout ship" not "Klingon Bird or Prey" so even though the STO ingame description says the BoP can be used as a scout, there seem to be more than the BoPs that are used in this function.
And that's what's missing.
Hey bud ! Just FYI stuff: I have not forgotten the promise I made ya ! I've been tied up with RL stuff a lot the last few weeks. To top that off when I opened the file some how the mesh had some errors on it. I now have the ship cleaned up and am ready to make the modifications for the SCI application. I will post some screenies of BOTH ships for comparison / contrast. For the most part they are the same ship .. the Sci ship has a few add-ons (which IMHO is pretty much what the Klingons would do: take a ship that is combat ready ... and add stuff to it )
At any rate give me a few more days to get it done and I'll be glad to post what we have.
(which IMHO is pretty much what the Klingons would do: take a ship that is combat ready ... and add stuff to it )
The Klingon design motto is " Throw out nothing that is not still usefull ". This why I would easily believet he KDF would design or build up some vessels to fulfill a science function within the fleet. Simply watching the feds and how thier advances in Science have proven useful would at least make this a reality on a limited level in the KDF.
Hey bud ! Just FYI stuff: I have not forgotten the promise I made ya ! I've been tied up with RL stuff a lot the last few weeks. To top that off when I opened the file some how the mesh had some errors on it. I now have the ship cleaned up and am ready to make the modifications for the SCI application. I will post some screenies of BOTH ships for comparison / contrast. For the most part they are the same ship .. the Sci ship has a few add-ons (which IMHO is pretty much what the Klingons would do: take a ship that is combat ready ... and add stuff to it )
At any rate give me a few more days to get it done and I'll be glad to post what we have.
(BTW... I appreciate your patience)
Thanks
Hello OlBuzzard,
thank you for telling me.
I know the feeling of real life turning everything upside down.
For the last couple of years every time I think "now is a good opportunity to..."
something "unpleasant" (incredible understatement) drops into my life and disrupts everything.
It's sometimes frustrating, sometimes beyond bad and sometimes I feel it makes me go nuts.
So I know the feeling and I never doubted that you'd keep your promise, no matter how long it took you.
Just over three weeks ago everything was fine, I was working on my own scoutship concepts, one shows what a Klingon long-range scout of the time after Star Trek 6 would look like.
The idea is that after Praxis the Klingons would need new sources of energy and created a new ship-design based the K't'inga.
Built for extended operations and equipped to find what was needed to keep the Emprie running in the face of such a disaster.
I'll try to describe my idea:
Imagine a K't'inga but with the nacelles directly connected to the wings, without the pylons that go down. The wings are lightly swept up.
The forward and aft torpedo launchers (three decks high on the K't'inga) reduced in size.
In the hozizontal section below the bridge and above the round section that holds the launcher, there is a "gap" where an oval (wider than high) sensor/deflect array is installed.
I know this is somewhat unusual for the Klingons but not unheard of:
The structure above the rear hull is signifficantly enlarged and contains provisions and equipment for the long journey and could, in a state of war, be used for different purposes as well.
In wartime this scout could be used to transport troups in that section along with their planetary assoult shuttles instead of the regular cargo shuttles.
With its advanced sensors it could also provide precision orbital bombardment.
Since the scout lacks the brutal punch of a battlecruiser it makes up for that with its ability to actually blow up only what needs to be blown up and keep useful strucutres intact.
The second one is an early 24th century replacement for that first ship, derived from the
Star Trek 3 BoP but with a more stretched hull and different wings.
It would also be around 200 meters long and would lack the troop-transport capability.
The thought behind that is since it's based on the more advanced and more resource-saving BoP it could go further with less cargo space and also require less fuel.
But it would have the ability to operate in an atmosphere and provide even better fire support.
There is also a signifficant amount of psychological pressure on an enemy when there is a giant BoP hanging overhead, blasting everything in sight.
So in theory those two scoutships could operate in tandem in wartime along with regular warships.
Each with their own strenghts and uses.
The idea behind this is to show what a Tier 2 and Tier 3 scout could look like.
They're not the newest ships around but the Empire would continue to use them on lower priority missions until they're completely useless.
They'd be derived from familiar warships but changed enough to serve in different functions.
In the end I didn't get beyond the paper-sketch phase and I'm afraid I'm not going to get past that in quite a while.
RL is at the helm and I'm not shure where it'll take me.
But I'm not giving up and while the ships are getting little changes on occasion in their paper form, I'm also making orthograhics for a large Klingon orbital station.
It has a hexagonal central core, at the very top is a dome similar in shape to the one the K't'inga's bridge is in, below that are three arms each with several drydocks for ships of different sizes and shapes for all the KDF races ships.
Below that there is a docking ring (or would that be called a "docking hex"?) to dock ships in a fashion similar to the way the Defiant is docked here:
And blow that some kind of reactor housing.
The station however has a radius of 8-9 kilometers, so getting that right and not losing the details I'd like to convey is not that easy.
Especially for someone like me who lacks several important skills when it come to the matter of drawing stuff...like the ability to draw for example.;)
So please take your time and I'm looking forward to your design.:)
The Klingon design motto is " Throw out nothing that is not still usefull ". This why I would easily believet he KDF would design or build up some vessels to fulfill a science function within the fleet. Simply watching the feds and how thier advances in Science have proven useful would at least make this a reality on a limited level in the KDF.
agreed... I can do some more work on the ship I have and help make it more dedicated to the area of science if ya like !
Mr D :
I don't pretend to be the best at Klingon design ... BUT I can at least provide a platform to work off of .. It will work for discussion if nothing else.
What I DID do was to use the BOP concept, make it more sleek in some areas, modify the weapons pod ( to work better as a long range scout ) , the nacelles are BUILT INTO the body of the ship and the "wings" are in a fixed position (rather than moving as a BOP does.) It has a clearly defined shuttle bay. The Sci version has clearly defined attachments and a modified bulkhead for additional areas dedicated to science application. The one thing that I have not added at this point ( mostly due to time ... and uncertain if it would be something that would be proper for Klingon esthetics) "observation decks" : both forward and aft..
At any rate .. Let me do some more work on what we have. If nothing else I'll post a W.I.P. in the next day or so !
agreed... I can do some more work on the ship I have and help make it more dedicated to the area of science if ya like !
Mr D :
I don't pretend to be the best at Klingon design ... BUT I can at least provide a platform to work off of .. It will work for discussion if nothing else.
What I DID do was to use the BOP concept, make it more sleek in some areas, modify the weapons pod ( to work better as a long range scout ) , the nacelles are BUILT INTO the body of the ship and the "wings" are in a fixed position (rather than moving as a BOP does.) It has a clearly defined shuttle bay. The Sci version has clearly defined attachments and a modified bulkhead for additional areas dedicated to science application. The one thing that I have not added at this point ( mostly due to time ... and uncertain if it would be something that would be proper for Klingon esthetics) "observation decks" : both forward and aft..
At any rate .. Let me do some more work on what we have. If nothing else I'll post a W.I.P. in the next day or so !
Your ideas are fine the way they are and I do not wish to see you change them based on my post. It was generalized post only and not directly aimed at you or your creations. I merely wish some small level of science added to the KDF that is not confined to the BoP, Vov or Gorn vessel.
Your ideas are fine the way they are and I do not wish to see you change them based on my post. It was generalized post only and not directly aimed at you or your creations. I merely wish some small level of science added to the KDF that is not confined to the BoP, Vov or Gorn vessel.
That's cool !! Let me try a little of both ! ( I do love doing 3-D models !)
I absolutely loathe the shield changes and other such to the carrier (pets being changed is ok but I mean everything else)...I believe that they could make a full science ship that doesn't move like a turtle....and doesn't handle like a big cruiser like the new Gorn ship...
That's cool !! Let me try a little of both ! ( I do love doing 3-D models !)
glad to take a shot at it for ya !
up-date: I decided to spend a little more time on the "science" ship and try to get some more done on it. It has a detachable "pod" ( IMHO Klingons kinda did a 1 up on the Feddies here. ) The pod is designed to be able to get a birds eye view of the most extreme of anomalies . I am expecting family next week so if it's alright with you folks I can post W.I.P. stuff on all 3 models ( Advanced long range scout, Converted scout to science application AND the ship that is primarily science application. )
BTW... this has been a blast. If there is enough interest in any of the 3 (or ALL 3) I can continue my work once our guests have left.
up-date: I decided to spend a little more time on the "science" ship and try to get some more done on it. It has a detachable "pod" ( IMHO Klingons kinda did a 1 up on the Feddies here. ) The pod is designed to be able to get a birds eye view of the most extreme of anomalies . I am expecting family next week so if it's alright with you folks I can post W.I.P. stuff on all 3 models ( Advanced long range scout, Converted scout to science application AND the ship that is primarily science application. )
BTW... this has been a blast. If there is enough interest in any of the 3 (or ALL 3) I can continue my work once our guests have left.
It does sound very interesting...moreso than the fed ship design of which you speak.
It does sound very interesting...moreso than the fed ship design of which you speak.
I got to work on it some more last night .. and welll I kinda got a little carried away... the pod ( instead of unmanned as the Feddies would do ...) It can be manned !! Four warriors can man the thing !! In short .. I placed a small command center on the pod!
I wish I had 3 or 4 days to do nothing but work on this one ... it's starting to be fun !!
I'll try to post a work in progress tonight before bed ( probably about 11:00 PM Central time ... ish ! )
Just look at the last major player-content to be released.
All of it was for Feds only:
MVAM
Vulcan Science Ship
TOS Bundle
Bajoran Costumes
ANOTHER Fed Science Ship - Oberth
And everytime something new hits the playing feel, Crytic nerf another Klingon power. Wonder whats gonna get the shaft this time?
Getting fed-up of the idle promises.
As are many KDF fans, <<<<<<<<<<<<edited for content>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited for content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
We are not as important. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited for content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do much more than eat crumbs fallen from the table <<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
We have gotten some wonderful things (missions/ships) in the past and I am grateful for the expansion they brought to KDF gameplay ( I love the Path of the Warrior missions) but I too dislike the feds monopoly on Dev attention based purely on monetary gain potential.
It has gotten old and does not display good character on the part of the feds.
Still I'm waiting to see what Season 4 holds for us before I give up all hope.
I play exclusively Fed .. BUT I know what you folks are saying. That is why I've spent the last 3 or 4 days working on a few models for discussion that are Klingon.
IMHO we need to get the ball rolling in this area. I enjoy being a part of the solution and hope that my $.02 worth that we post this evening will help.
As are many KDF fans, <<<<<<<<<<<<edited for content>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited for content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
We are not as important. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited for content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do much more than eat crumbs fallen from the table <<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
We have gotten some wonderful things (missions/ships) in the past and I am grateful for the expansion they brought to KDF gameplay ( I love the Path of the Warrior missions) but I too dislike the feds monopoly on Dev attention based purely on monetary gain potential.
It has gotten old and does not display good character on the part of the feds.
Still I'm waiting to see what Season 4 holds for us before I give up all hope.
I agree with all of this, particularly the "edited for content" part.
Take the raptors in-game, copy them, switch their slots to be science-oriented, give subsystem targeting & sensor analysis. Problem solved!
No disrespect intended .. BUT that is the problem. There is little or nothing fresh being published for the Klingon faction.
THERE NEEDS TO BE ! (for emphasis ... NOT screaming)
For what ever it is worth I know that the artists have their hands full ! There simply needs to be some attention given to the Klingon faction. IMHO the 3rd faction should be put on hold until the Klingons are brought to speed.
Yes that would mean that a model that I have been promoting the last few YEARS should wait ! I'll gladly be patient and wait for a FEW (not one or two) Klingon models get added to the game! It's simply the right thing to do!
BTW... I little heads up (or warning) .. my Klingon science ship, though easily identified as Klingon .. is a bit out side the box!
I am waiting to see OlBuzzard's work but as a suggestion could we also toss in a Fek'lhr class too? Fek'lhr class It may be and Activion thing only but it was launched as a science ship:
They were armed with torpedoes that could be modified to create a temporary instable Ion storm that would damage anything inside of it. A prototype version of an Energy dissapator was present within the ship as well that would drain the power reserves of enemy warships. The ships were also armed with a prototype Shockwave weapon known as a Repulsion wave that was capable of knocking out enemy engines and leaving them spinning helplessly away from battle.
sorry for the delay folks! the weekend has been absolutely NUTS !
At any rate here is the WIP I 've been promising. I wish I had more time to get the next step in the Science vessel completed enough to post ... but frankly I was not sure how far outside the box I should go and still make it look like a Klingon ship. BUT I have started on it ... and depending upon feed back with this work in progress we'll see what shakes out.
THIS CONCEPTis a place to start the discussion (I hope)
feed back is appreciated
OH.. It should be noted that I origonally thought about simple adding a few noticable add-ons to an advancecd long range scout .. Someone suggested a newer ship. While it is obvious I modified the hull .. it is also obvious that is a LOT different. It simply may not be different enough. My thoughts are to still try to keep it recognizable as a "KLINGON" design.
ALSO: the pod is manned by a crew of 4 Plus the captain. IMHO Klingons might not want to stay sat comfortably behind a console and send in a remot probe all the time. Klingons being more fearless might prefer to "fly" the probe directly into the anamoly and get first hand data ! (just a thought).
Comments
Actually, I am fighting against homogenizing the factions, which is what is being asked for on both sides of the fence. I have an Orion character (I admittedly don't use her much, though). I might make a Naussicaan. Playing a Gorn is tempting. I don't ignore the non-Klingons when I try to make arguments for making the KDF better. I thought that the new race-specific ships were pretty damn cool looking. I never once said that non-Klingons can't have stuff. What I'm saying is that people look at the other side of the fence and think that it's greener over there, get jealous, and want what their neighbor has without thinking things through.
our races ships are out ther in game right now in all there varients, to not give them to the players playing that race is wrong and i dont mean all the varients but some of them should be a given if not they should simply make every race npc in game that is in the kdf fly the ships available to the kdf players as depriving the races within the kdf implys that the races themselves dont have ships of there own and need to use klingon ships.
1.: We have 2 unique kind of ships and we always wantet to KEEP those. There were a lot of discussions about federation wich, luckily, didnt come.
The Sci-Ship should have remained a Fed-exclusive. Dont even like one beeing there at t5. I would even like LESS having one on every level.
2.: We have already very little ships there, where the major part of the game takes place; at t5. We also have little missions, almost no costumes ect ect.
And you really want Cryptic to invest the little resources they invest in the KDF anyway.... into low-level ships. The price would be less content where we need it; in the end-content-area.
No, we need stuff at all levels. Only having more at the top end is only good for those who are already playing KDF and already maxed out. Without spreading the love throughout all the levels, we will not draw more players to the faction. Without more folks joining the KDF to counter and even reverse the continued dwindling of the KDF player-base, the devs will have less and less reason to bother adding more to the KDF. As it is dtahl has said he steers the ship mostly towards the Feds because of such low KDF numbers. Are you sure, you really want the KDF to grow enough that the devs will be more inclined to equal attention to the KDF? I ask this because, it sounds more like you just want more for yourself at the expense of the faction as a whole.
I disagree hardly. We level VERY fast. To ask for 4 low tier ships wich get each thrown away after 3 days at max instead of t5 ships wich we actually use for some time is insane.
Mission content or better pvp, that might be something diffrent, although I still believe at last the mission content can be much better done through better rewardet foundry missions.
But the players do not stay away from KDF side because of the lack of ships; the opposite is true; the most players come to KDF side to have cloaked ships and BoPs with universam consoles for a change. The problem is that leveling is just grinding. That wont be solved with new ships.
Also, beside the t3 variants of the Excelsior and nebula and those t1 ships (wich arent played much on KDF side anyway since we start at lvl6) we do not have less ships before t5. (just less skins but thats another topic)....
your sniffing something, there is absolutly no reason to race to endgame simply because there is no endgame, the most fun in the game is the travel to top end, the more fun we can get and the more diversity getting there the better, and the only way to level fast in kdf is to repeat things till your eyes bleed, the best way todo it is to take you time and have fun. and your argument is bassed on you think other content should be done when infact that content is being done due to us complaining like hell about it not being done right in the 1st place.
and a new person coming to the kdf who has been bottle fed on federation leveling hit a wall and go crawl back to the fed side. 90% of the true hardcore kdf stopped there subs due to the lack of content and that isnt just top end content, if cryptic want to get those people back and new people to kdf they need to add this type of diversity and content through all the ranks not just at top end where you feel it is your right to TRIBBLE over the kdf just so u have more chance of getting a new model ship.
and you like so many others think everyone who comes to kdf come here to be a klingon varient which is simply not the case and are disheartened when the only option is to be a klingon clone in space.
The importanat feature of the carrier we currently have is the fact that it's a mobile base and docking facility.
It's intended to lead an invasion force into foreign space.
It is equipped to repair and maintain other ships, has better crew facilites etc.
source:
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2009-07-27/20090727233926665.shtml
source:
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/93423-Star-Trek-Online-Klingon-VoQuv-Revealed
It is so big to accomondate all those features.
A "mini-me-carrier" would lack those important features.
So the question for me personally as someone who tries not to think "how would I build a ship for the Klingons" but rather "how would the Klingons approach this problem?"is this:
why would they invest vast amounts of resources to build a ship that lacks what a "Klingon carrier" is all about?
I still feel that the term "carrier" was ill-chosen and that "mobile command base" would have been better.
Also, assuming you read my scoutship proposal on the first page, why would Klingons be limited to ships with science slots that turn like...well...that turn better than outposts?
Especially since scout ships were mentioned several times thoughout the shows and also specifically shown with the appearance of the Raptor on "Enterprise".
They were also mentioned in DS9 where they were obviously used in circumstances where others used science ships.
Why not use something that is swift, as is customary for the Klingons who were never really that into big lumbering bricks?
Perhaps an Orion Carrier, they certainly had a few small fighter like craft historically, as did the nausicans. The Gorn's could easily have a fighter as well, they most likely had large ships as well, with many different classes of ship. They were after all their own empire, while not as strong as the Klingon's, they were far more organized then either the Nausicaans or the Orions.
A smaller carrier for the low ranks makes sense, it cant pack all the **** the Vo'quv has, nor would it be intended to be a replacement.
What, we already have that, its called a Bird of Prey, just load it up with science officers.
Been there, done that, bought that t-shirt.
I'd prefer to travel both in style and in a ship with more science consoles than a Raptor or a Battlecruisr.
I'v been annoyed with the "we didn't bother to give you guys a rounded fleet, use the Bird of Prey instead" approach we had since...ever.
And we know the KDF has those ships.
In DS9 they specifically said "Klingon scout ship" not "Klingon Bird or Prey" so even though the STO ingame description says the BoP can be used as a scout, there seem to be more than the BoPs that are used in this function.
And that's what's missing.
Hey bud ! Just FYI stuff: I have not forgotten the promise I made ya ! I've been tied up with RL stuff a lot the last few weeks. To top that off when I opened the file some how the mesh had some errors on it. I now have the ship cleaned up and am ready to make the modifications for the SCI application. I will post some screenies of BOTH ships for comparison / contrast. For the most part they are the same ship .. the Sci ship has a few add-ons (which IMHO is pretty much what the Klingons would do: take a ship that is combat ready ... and add stuff to it )
At any rate give me a few more days to get it done and I'll be glad to post what we have.
(BTW... I appreciate your patience)
Thanks
The Klingon design motto is " Throw out nothing that is not still usefull ". This why I would easily believet he KDF would design or build up some vessels to fulfill a science function within the fleet. Simply watching the feds and how thier advances in Science have proven useful would at least make this a reality on a limited level in the KDF.
Hello OlBuzzard,
thank you for telling me.
I know the feeling of real life turning everything upside down.
For the last couple of years every time I think "now is a good opportunity to..."
something "unpleasant" (incredible understatement) drops into my life and disrupts everything.
It's sometimes frustrating, sometimes beyond bad and sometimes I feel it makes me go nuts.
So I know the feeling and I never doubted that you'd keep your promise, no matter how long it took you.
Just over three weeks ago everything was fine, I was working on my own scoutship concepts, one shows what a Klingon long-range scout of the time after Star Trek 6 would look like.
The idea is that after Praxis the Klingons would need new sources of energy and created a new ship-design based the K't'inga.
Built for extended operations and equipped to find what was needed to keep the Emprie running in the face of such a disaster.
I'll try to describe my idea:
Imagine a K't'inga but with the nacelles directly connected to the wings, without the pylons that go down. The wings are lightly swept up.
The forward and aft torpedo launchers (three decks high on the K't'inga) reduced in size.
In the hozizontal section below the bridge and above the round section that holds the launcher, there is a "gap" where an oval (wider than high) sensor/deflect array is installed.
I know this is somewhat unusual for the Klingons but not unheard of:
http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/klingon_cargo_000.jpg
The structure above the rear hull is signifficantly enlarged and contains provisions and equipment for the long journey and could, in a state of war, be used for different purposes as well.
In wartime this scout could be used to transport troups in that section along with their planetary assoult shuttles instead of the regular cargo shuttles.
With its advanced sensors it could also provide precision orbital bombardment.
Since the scout lacks the brutal punch of a battlecruiser it makes up for that with its ability to actually blow up only what needs to be blown up and keep useful strucutres intact.
The second one is an early 24th century replacement for that first ship, derived from the
Star Trek 3 BoP but with a more stretched hull and different wings.
It would also be around 200 meters long and would lack the troop-transport capability.
The thought behind that is since it's based on the more advanced and more resource-saving BoP it could go further with less cargo space and also require less fuel.
But it would have the ability to operate in an atmosphere and provide even better fire support.
There is also a signifficant amount of psychological pressure on an enemy when there is a giant BoP hanging overhead, blasting everything in sight.
So in theory those two scoutships could operate in tandem in wartime along with regular warships.
Each with their own strenghts and uses.
The idea behind this is to show what a Tier 2 and Tier 3 scout could look like.
They're not the newest ships around but the Empire would continue to use them on lower priority missions until they're completely useless.
They'd be derived from familiar warships but changed enough to serve in different functions.
In the end I didn't get beyond the paper-sketch phase and I'm afraid I'm not going to get past that in quite a while.
RL is at the helm and I'm not shure where it'll take me.
But I'm not giving up and while the ships are getting little changes on occasion in their paper form, I'm also making orthograhics for a large Klingon orbital station.
It has a hexagonal central core, at the very top is a dome similar in shape to the one the K't'inga's bridge is in, below that are three arms each with several drydocks for ships of different sizes and shapes for all the KDF races ships.
Below that there is a docking ring (or would that be called a "docking hex"?) to dock ships in a fashion similar to the way the Defiant is docked here:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070105230455/memoryalpha/en/images/5/54/Deep_space_9.jpg
And blow that some kind of reactor housing.
The station however has a radius of 8-9 kilometers, so getting that right and not losing the details I'd like to convey is not that easy.
Especially for someone like me who lacks several important skills when it come to the matter of drawing stuff...like the ability to draw for example.;)
So please take your time and I'm looking forward to your design.:)
agreed... I can do some more work on the ship I have and help make it more dedicated to the area of science if ya like !
Mr D :
I don't pretend to be the best at Klingon design ... BUT I can at least provide a platform to work off of .. It will work for discussion if nothing else.
What I DID do was to use the BOP concept, make it more sleek in some areas, modify the weapons pod ( to work better as a long range scout ) , the nacelles are BUILT INTO the body of the ship and the "wings" are in a fixed position (rather than moving as a BOP does.) It has a clearly defined shuttle bay. The Sci version has clearly defined attachments and a modified bulkhead for additional areas dedicated to science application. The one thing that I have not added at this point ( mostly due to time ... and uncertain if it would be something that would be proper for Klingon esthetics) "observation decks" : both forward and aft..
At any rate .. Let me do some more work on what we have. If nothing else I'll post a W.I.P. in the next day or so !
Your ideas are fine the way they are and I do not wish to see you change them based on my post. It was generalized post only and not directly aimed at you or your creations. I merely wish some small level of science added to the KDF that is not confined to the BoP, Vov or Gorn vessel.
That's cool !! Let me try a little of both ! ( I do love doing 3-D models !)
glad to take a shot at it for ya !
I have no suggestions, sorry, only criticism.
up-date: I decided to spend a little more time on the "science" ship and try to get some more done on it. It has a detachable "pod" ( IMHO Klingons kinda did a 1 up on the Feddies here. ) The pod is designed to be able to get a birds eye view of the most extreme of anomalies . I am expecting family next week so if it's alright with you folks I can post W.I.P. stuff on all 3 models ( Advanced long range scout, Converted scout to science application AND the ship that is primarily science application. )
BTW... this has been a blast. If there is enough interest in any of the 3 (or ALL 3) I can continue my work once our guests have left.
It does sound very interesting...moreso than the fed ship design of which you speak.
I got to work on it some more last night .. and welll I kinda got a little carried away... the pod ( instead of unmanned as the Feddies would do ...) It can be manned !! Four warriors can man the thing !! In short .. I placed a small command center on the pod!
I wish I had 3 or 4 days to do nothing but work on this one ... it's starting to be fun !!
I'll try to post a work in progress tonight before bed ( probably about 11:00 PM Central time ... ish ! )
All of it was for Feds only:
MVAM
Vulcan Science Ship
TOS Bundle
Bajoran Costumes
ANOTHER Fed Science Ship - Oberth
And everytime something new hits the playing feel, Crytic nerf another Klingon power. Wonder whats gonna get the shaft this time?
Getting fed-up of the idle promises.
As are many KDF fans, <<<<<<<<<<<<edited for content>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited for content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
We are not as important.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited for content >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do much more than eat crumbs fallen from the table <<<<<<<<<<<<<< edited>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
We have gotten some wonderful things (missions/ships) in the past and I am grateful for the expansion they brought to KDF gameplay ( I love the Path of the Warrior missions) but I too dislike the feds monopoly on Dev attention based purely on monetary gain potential.
It has gotten old and does not display good character on the part of the feds.
Still I'm waiting to see what Season 4 holds for us before I give up all hope.
IMHO we need to get the ball rolling in this area. I enjoy being a part of the solution and hope that my $.02 worth that we post this evening will help.
I agree with all of this, particularly the "edited for content" part.
No disrespect intended .. BUT that is the problem. There is little or nothing fresh being published for the Klingon faction.
THERE NEEDS TO BE ! (for emphasis ... NOT screaming)
For what ever it is worth I know that the artists have their hands full ! There simply needs to be some attention given to the Klingon faction. IMHO the 3rd faction should be put on hold until the Klingons are brought to speed.
Yes that would mean that a model that I have been promoting the last few YEARS should wait ! I'll gladly be patient and wait for a FEW (not one or two) Klingon models get added to the game! It's simply the right thing to do!
BTW... I little heads up (or warning) .. my Klingon science ship, though easily identified as Klingon .. is a bit out side the box!
At any rate here is the WIP I 've been promising. I wish I had more time to get the next step in the Science vessel completed enough to post ... but frankly I was not sure how far outside the box I should go and still make it look like a Klingon ship. BUT I have started on it ... and depending upon feed back with this work in progress we'll see what shakes out.
THIS CONCEPT is a place to start the discussion (I hope)
feed back is appreciated
OH.. It should be noted that I origonally thought about simple adding a few noticable add-ons to an advancecd long range scout .. Someone suggested a newer ship. While it is obvious I modified the hull .. it is also obvious that is a LOT different. It simply may not be different enough. My thoughts are to still try to keep it recognizable as a "KLINGON" design.
ALSO: the pod is manned by a crew of 4 Plus the captain. IMHO Klingons might not want to stay sat comfortably behind a console and send in a remot probe all the time. Klingons being more fearless might prefer to "fly" the probe directly into the anamoly and get first hand data ! (just a thought).