Sage or Demon?

I personally believe that there's so much potential with duskblades going demon. More crit, reduced cast skills, reduced skill cooldowns and longer Crowd Control skills are just some of the perks. I am sure demon will also help us come up with more combos because of reduced skill cooldowns.

In my opinion the fact that demon spark gives crit instead of aps makes demon even better. APS is dated and with reaper form and galemark -> Ode -> Winged Dragon you generate 60 chi (75 for both sage and demon) so set it on a macro, reaper form, demon spark and use that macro over and over and you hit harder than APSing, don't need to use our other crit boost skill, and get enough chi within 15 seconds to keep sparking. In endgame gear it means your crit rate is kept at 100%

2 of the best duskblade skills are charge based and as demon will lower the charge time it will make them much easier to use them to their full potential. Given duskblade is so clearly a CC class that is important as well as longer stun durations. Chi management can be done with a smart playstyle and a good genie. Given some of our best skills don't cost chi, or cost only a little, I think if you play smart you won't need to be sage to use all your best chi skills. That and I've always had a problem with sage skills that have a -chance- to not cost chi...usually you plan on it costing the normal chi and are ready for it to do so anyway...This coming from a sage BM, I never rely on, say, dragon rising to proc. It's just nice when it does. In the case of duskblade I think demon has more to offer.

DeathenShada - Archosaur wrote: »

Overall I just can't decided, first I swore I was going demon, then I said i'm going sage, now demon again. The skills are just too close with no defining factor to definitively shout SAGE or DEMON. b:surrender

This^
I went demon on mine before anyone really knew that demon spark gave crit rather than aps and I'm loving it. Even after reading all the translated skill I couldn't see one being clearly better than the other, so I picked demon. Partially because I like the effects on our CC skills it adds, but also because if I do ever want to be sage all I'll have to do is buy a schism and switch.

OPKossy wrote: »

It's veno and cleric all over again. A balanced cultivation where what you choose depends more on how you play than one being leaps and bounds above the other.

That's nice though!
I missed those discussions on the Cleric/Venomancer forums... so dead these days.


On topic: I chose Sage because........ well, my Duskblade is just an alt I made to entertain myself, and try out the "new stuff". I didn't think much about its cultivation.
I mostly chose Sage because of the easy/lazy Master Li's Technique chi making (I know you can also spam the buff for chi), and if I recall correctly they had the better squad buff so it works nice as a buffer (Demon was more self-beneficial I think).


Also because I'm apparently destined to play Demon toons as mains and Duskblade is just an alt. Venomancer is Demon... my Sage Cleric somehow ended up being abandoned for my Demon one (long story), I lost interest in playing my Sage Psychic, Sage Mystic was abandoned too (long story) @_@

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also because I'm apparently destined to play Demon toons as mains and Duskblade is just an alt. Venomancer is Demon... my Sage Cleric somehow ended up being abandoned for my Demon one (long story), I lost interest in playing my Sage Psychic, Sage Mystic was abandoned too (long story) @_@

Because your tail and I are plotting many things. b:sin

DeathenShada - Archosaur wrote: »

After mulling over the skills I think the easiest way to sum is up would be.

If you want a PvP Duskblade = Demon
If you want a PvE Duskblade = Sage

At least in my opinion, with the demon version being more focused on CC, extra stuns, and quick burst damage; while the sage taking a more passive approach with extra chi/skill damage and a more extended increase in damage. I think that's the best way to look at it.

So just like OPKossy said it's going to depend on your play style. But ya I've literally read the demon/sage skills like over 30 times, done talies, compared in various scenarios and that's probably the simplest way I can put it.

Idk, that wep damage on some skills and sage mastery, plus infinite chi to use reflection skills (Yes you spend 2 sparks to hf, black ice, and so on)
That reduction on Ripple's cooldown looks cool for PvP as well.

I think both are well balanced, but with 60%+ base crits from R9 I don't think more crits are big edge, but the 15 spammable att levels looks very nice as well.
Range on the teleports also means you can catch casters from outside their range.
And sage dragon trap when full charged hits an extreme poison or hf idk for 30%

We have a very difficult choice here.

Sage gets 30m range on relentless drift and blinking movement. That's pretty huge because it outranges most casters. Although demon gets an extra 5m on the reel in move.

Both demon and sage duskblades have good chi gain but sage DBs s hit chi what do you do with all that extra chi, 3 spark. We can keep 3 spark up almost permanent while being able to use our high chi consuming skills and those lovely reflect skills.

Combine the 25% damage reduction from sage 3 spark and sage Eternity 30% 5 sec focused mind, not so squishy afterall. b:pleased

Sage Eternity = 30% Focused Mind VS Demon Eternity= 30% Tidal Protection:
5 sec duration, 8 sec cd and spammable.

When your CCd, your CCd as your being hit sage Eternity helps to turn all that damage done on you to 1 lol. 2 hits 60% evade, 3 hits 90% evade.
If someone wants to cc you they will do it on first attempt a 30% chance to block that cc wont be much of help its mostly against chance to cc skills like barb paralyse that demon Eternity will shine. (im slightly jelly of demon eternity) b:laugh


Sage Dragon Trap 5sec amp duration 15sec cd is spammable.
Don't forget that 30% hf +20% ep, 50% amp sweet spike damage. b:dirty
If its not a hf and instead a subsea well that's one free slot on genie.

I am a bit biased for sage DB. I cant wait to see morai and primal skills those mostly bring culti benefits together eg chi, cc.

iperen wrote: »

I wonder if the 15 att lvls are just for caster or if it affects everyone within squad+range (like demon bell). Anyone knows ?

It should work like demon verdant shell for mystics in which it only works for the caster.

bearcalledpooh wrote: »

But verdant shell is a selfbuff and lunar blessing is a squad buff so you can't base it on that skill.

Except the skill states "raises 'your' attack level by 15 for x seconds"

That "your" is kinda important. Besides the point that would be stupid if it affected all you squad mates, then duskblades would just turn into squad buffers. Just stand there and cast your squad buff over and over.

I like how the choice between the two cultis aren't....clear cut decisions
I honestly can't decide yet. In my view the benefits between the two would be:

Sage

+Both Jumps outrange most Caster classes

+Stronger passives

+Longer Silence Dread

+Many chances to gain/save Chi during/Out of battle (Motionless, Chant, Grief, Strigi, Prey, Master Li's)

+Settling Ripple's CD reduced to 1 minute

+Some skills hit a bit harder with weapon damage/damage add-ons (Owl, Dual, Pride, Gale, Moonlight)

+Dragon Trap briefly amplifies damage taken

Other:
Lunar Grace gives a fire damage add-on, which can help deal status through physical immunity


Demon

+Slightly longer duration of Status effects in general (Drift, Grief, Moonlight, Destiny)

+Lunar Grace provides more anti-stun time

+Lower charge time on Charge-type skills (Trap and Pride)

+Complete immunity with Settling Ripple

+Arc reduces PDef by 60%

+Shadow Prey range boosted to 25m

+Moon Chant briefly raises Attack Level

Idk, sage seems to follow a more consistent DPH role with the weapon damage adds and bonuses just hitting harder and getting more opportunities to use the stronger skills in general with all the chi you can save. Meanwhile, Demon is more about DPS rushdown attempts while holding someone in place easier.

The spark in game for Demon says it's attack rate.. even my sin is still 5.0 with demon spark.. Misprint? wouldn't be the first time...

Anyways the only thing that appealed for me in sage was the port range which can be augmented with holy path, speed skill and some other skills boost speed. I belive the steal and speed skill is meant for you to get close with out them noticing.
I like the shorted 3 sec challenging skills the most on the demon side. For me it made no sense why you would just charge your weapon like that being a LA class. Perhaps they should make those skills charge while moving? Kinda like axe class in Te.ra? Galmark is pretty much the main stay of the combos as well so demon gives chi for using that (I use it all the time)

Demon for meb:bye

P.S. they actually ban the the use of T.e.r.a b:laugh ****

Looking at it from a PvP perspective.


Demon

1)Free damage immunity skill

-I don't even need to explain this, this bonus can be the difference between surviving a 1v1 or mass PvP situation by saving you just enough time for a charm tick or perhaps a genie/apoth CD.

2)Free Attack level increase skill(not that amazing but it's better than nothing)

-I can't really say this skill would be amazing 1v1, but in group PvP it could be a nice opener to leap in to do some burst damage.

3)Better overall CC meaning much more control over combos

-Which personally I feel is much more important than slightly higher base damage on skills since as I am sure we all noticed, duskblades killing and survivability is heavily dependent on it's ability to utilize its combos properly.

4)Free Anti debuff skill(assuming it works like sins Tidal)

-Since the duskblades lack reliable anti CC and overall survivability I personally feel this added bonus really will help allow you to continue combos and if you're lucky not get purged.

5)Lower charge CD on important combo skills

-No explanation needed.

EDIT:

For those reasons alone demon appealed a lot more to me, I wont deny that sage has some fantastic benefits such as chi building and slightly higher base damage on skills, but personally I feel boosting my CC ability is more important to me.

However the fact I can also have a spammable damage amp skill as a sage DB for PvP is making the decision even harder as well as elemental damage(which is extremely useful for expel spammers). Chi is really not that much of an issue considering I feel duskblades have an extremely easy time maintaining chi in general.

But I will say that either path is not a bad choice but I reserve my choice till further notice, but for now demon is still going to be my first choice until I decide otherwise.

I've now decided I'm changing my mind and going demon.b:laugh
In PVP every second counts.

The already mentioned skills:

Tidal Protection

Settling Ripple 90 sec cd complete immunity comparable to veno feral concentration 3min cd that's half the cd of 3 mins. The original 80% dr lasts longer than the 4.3 sec cast time like 6 secs, if demon version immune lasts 6 secs we will be able to aoe paralyse and tele back into safety with ease.

Anti stun lasting 2 extra secs.

I thought sage had the survival cause of the 25% damage reduction, being able to use SR sooner, 1.6% more max reduction from passive and the damage evade but demons truly have better survivabilty to me because of the 3 above skills that prevent a Duskblade from being cced in the first place.

I underestimated demon Duskblade CC boosts, they aren't like CC boosts from other class cultis, they really aren't minor.
For example when wanting to stun lock that 1 sec extra stun duration from Relentless Drift is very nice, using 3 tele stuns in a row becomes a 6sec lock whilst sage remains at 3 secs.

Divine Moonlight lasting 1 sec longer, allows more time to use Moon Chant and gain chi and allows skills to come off cd. Grief lasting 1 more sec is very nice, on skills that have 30 sec cds Stigimorphic Dive and Blinking Moment those cds being reduced is pretty huge for faster lock.

Destinty Hunter lasting 7 long secs is very nice especially with the skill taking away 0.6 secs to use a skill after due to cast time. Demon Duskblades longer lasting ccs will put enemies under more pressure leading them to waste genie energy setting them up for a nice trap with Destiny Hunter.

Veno's Bewitch that can take us out of Reaper Form is a pain and having demon RF with a reduced cd of 5 secs is nice in general.

When it comes to genies I say every Duskblade in general should have tangling mire, for demons with the 60% pdef debuff bump genie strength to 25 upgrading the TM debuff to 40%, together making a 100% pdef debuff which they can have on a survival vit + magic genie. This debuff combo can be used at will like wizys use genie spark.

The 80 chi gain every 3 secs in RF and every 6 secs out of RF with both culti versions makes Duskblade chi gain comparable with sage venos and sins. The already mentioned extra chi on our combo opener Gale Mark is helpful. To add to this Duskblades can get chi out of combat by spamming Moon Chant whether demon or sage.
Demon Everlasting Ode reducing targets chi by 15 is very nice combined with Mo Zaun's Taunt. With 1 sec cds in RF and 6 sec cds out of RF 15 chi drain every 2 secs is no joke, think of all the sparks we can drain. While sage Duskblades have the chi advantage, demons s hit chi also and drain enemies chi by alot especially EO being aoe.

Crit boost from spark is also nice, demons truly can spike damage more. Now I realise reduced charge times are extremely useful majority of the time better cc from DT and longer wep disarm from SoP, demon Duskblades are even more fast paced on an already fast paced class. The 30% hf from sage DT only applies on the 4th hit, if interupted mid way or less or cancelled then no hf. lvl 100 skill ShadowSever is a 20% hf although 3 min cd, theres also bms to copy hf from.

Lastly the demon fairy looks badass. b:chuckle
These are my reasons for changing my mind if primal skills do come and sage gets better upgrades who knows I could change my mind again but its looking very unlikely.