BM and Heart of Steel

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2014

So it's no secret that PWI has a new race coming out (Will link if requested) and that this class will also use metal damage, so this got me thinking.

As it stands,we have archers, seekers, and clerics that deal metal damage, that's 3/10 classes, which is a farily large portion since you can consider without magic damage buffs 1/10 use fire, 2/10 use water, 2/10 use wood, and 2/10 use earth. Since 5/10 use physical and 3/10 use exclusively metal and physical.

The new class addition will add one more physical and one more mage to deal water and metal damage.

This will increase it to 6/12 physicals and 4/12 metals and 3/12 waters. With seekers being able to zerk metal crits this makes them a pain. Now, I know we already have our very useful magic marrow for the casters, however realizing now that 8/12 classes will deal metal/physical (the new one also doing water) then metal skills seem to be the majority of attacks that are not physical, this the frequently seen elemental damage in NW/TW/PK.

By this logic, I'm starting to wonder if it's beginning to make more sense to not marrow and use Heart of Steal making us immune to metal and only being officially threatened by the three classes that deal water/earth/fire.

Now, I'm not saying we should start ignoring magic marrow for many reasons, such as wizards and psychics can seriously hurt if you don't have marrow up, but I am saying that if the majority of classes deal metal and physical it makes a lot of sense on paper. Here on RT we have a lot of seekers, archers, and sins. The three most common TW classes are physical and/or metal, so sometimes using magic marrow can hurt a lot. Of course the physcal defense of a BM is still pretty high so one or two sins won't mean death if you're in magic marrow, but when you stack on those sins with archers and seekers spamming a variety of metal and physical on you, heart of steel and no marrow starts to look really shiney.

I personally use a dex genie for various skills such as ToP and Windshield, it's a defense focused genie. Currently it looks like this. I have been meaning to change it, having Faith does remove the necessity for Badge of Courage since faith is much better and right now Paralyze is the big scary stun, I haven't used Badge since I was in a 1v1 with a sin, and now I stay out of PK and stick to TW or NW. Balance is nice and does do what I'm talking about but at the end of the day it costs more genie and it is a shield so a seekers metal crit zerk can take it down before its time of expiration.

If I were to turn my genie into something more like this then I can use the dex on my genie to reduce the cost of Heart of Steel so I can use it more frequently and chain it with Windshield if I find a psychic or wizard on me.

Again, this sounds nice on paper and will probably vary server to server, but since Heart of Steel will remove the magic damage from seekers, clerics, and archers while the other BMs, sins, and barbs deal physical, and the new melee doing physical, we'd also be able to render half the new casters skills useless, making psychics, wizards, Mystics, and Venos the only real magic damage threats assuming the player on the end of the upcoming mage doesn't see the buff, if they spammed only magic then they could still do damage, but that's still only 5/12 classes, less than half that can actually threaten you.

Let me know what you think!

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver · November 2014

you might as well make a dex genie with,

Nully Poison , Hearts of Steel, oxygen Bubble, Soul of fire, windshield, will surge b:cute

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2014

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you might as well make a dex genie with,

Nully Poison , Hearts of Steel, oxygen Bubble, Soul of fire, windshield, will surge b:cute

You're right, that way I can expel all of my genie within 10 seconds and render it entirely useless!

Xaner - Dreamweaver · November 2014

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator/#skills=151d1e303b3e5b&lev=104&lp=83&cls=5&ter=1

I would go with this instead... EP is an awesome 20% more damage and even if its not a strength genie occult ice is awesome

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2014

Occult Ice is a joke on a BM as far as I'm concerned.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver · November 2014

Occult a Joke? U crazy lol using occult for a stun might be funny since we got an onslaught of stuns but Occult as a defensive safe guard or a leap lock to save ur stuns for a few sec later can help tons.

for mass pvp yo its simple Mag marrow +O bell if ur demon idk how them sage's does it. far as genie goes .yeah everyone dumpin magic now a days thats what element immunities for thats what def charms for thats Apos for . With Primal updates magic shouldnt even be so much as a problem like before. Bm's Balance of magical and physical Def is Op now. with the right ornements passives/avatar's/titles/meridians/nuemas.

If i find myself with a 1v1 situation with a Seeker, i coming in Marrowed Bell and Hearts of steel only for when they place a metal debuff on me . Cause fighting an equal geared seeker or archer that metal stuff just tickles so long as i got my buff combo up. and i got junk for orneys. I was kidding on my above post.

Windshield on a high dex genie is the go to skill if u find urself in a gank well it works for me. Yeah theres Faith and such but cripplin ur genie is the case ur oppents want u to do.

Balance come in when ur stuned and caught with ur marrow down . We BM's we not invincible with Def level buffs. But we should be able to adapt to the situation quickly and leap out and stun/run out of harms way.

but to note for mass pvp seems the high vit/mag genie is best to serve.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · November 2014

Lets not use the thing, which makes BMs extremely tanky by nature as they got fairly high numbers on each defense and relay on genie skill with 23% uptime. One would also have to see the metal damage coming for HoS to be of any use, which isnt always the case. But please continue, I find this quite entertaining.

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2014

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Lets not use the thing, which makes BMs extremely tanky by nature as they got fairly high numbers on each defense and relay on genie skill with 23% uptime. One would also have to see the metal damage coming for HoS to be of any use, which isnt always the case. But please continue, I find this quite entertaining.

I already said it would not replace magic marrow, especially since it only lasts 7 seconds, marrow is basically constant.

Reading.

GG.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Occult a Joke? U crazy lol using occult for a stun might be funny since we got an onslaught of stuns but Occult as a defensive safe guard or a leap lock to save ur stuns for a few sec later can help tons.

for mass pvp yo its simple Mag marrow +O bell if ur demon idk how them sage's does it. far as genie goes .yeah everyone dumpin magic now a days thats what element immunities for thats what def charms for thats Apos for . With Primal updates magic shouldnt even be so much as a problem like before. Bm's Balance of magical and physical Def is Op now. with the right ornements passives/avatar's/titles/meridians/nuemas.

If i find myself with a 1v1 situation with a Seeker, i coming in Marrowed Bell and Hearts of steel only for when they place a metal debuff on me . Cause fighting an equal geared seeker or archer that metal stuff just tickles so long as i got my buff combo up. and i got junk for orneys. I was kidding on my above post.

Windshield on a high dex genie is the go to skill if u find urself in a gank well it works for me. Yeah theres Faith and such but cripplin ur genie is the case ur oppents want u to do.

Balance come in when ur stuned and caught with ur marrow down . We BM's we not invincible with Def level buffs. But we should be able to adapt to the situation quickly and leap out and stun/run out of harms way.

but to note for mass pvp seems the high vit/mag genie is best to serve.

This idea came form the fact that for the last 2 weeks I haven't encountered a large number of DDs that deal water, wood, earth, or fire. We had a TW against a particular faction that broght 30ish and they had one psy, 0 wizards, and 1 T3 mystic, and 2 t3 venos which tickles my r9rr.

Today we had TW vs another faction that brought around 39, they had 1 mystic, 1 wizard, and 2 psys, one of which was a oneshot to even my defense level r8r axe, and 2 venos that were also very squishy.

The rest were BMs, barbs, sins, archers, and seekers, though mostly sins archers and seekers. This seems to be the pattern here on RT, less than 15% of any faction is a wiz/psy/veno/mystic. Like I said, it's not like I wouldn't be marrowing at all, hell I'd still be found in magic marrow anyway since I cycle them for the 20 chi. It was just a thought, considering if you get a BM and archer on you and the archer gets a purge while you're stunned the pair can easily devastate anyone.

If it helps, I am a sage, so no demon bell for me.

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver · November 2014

not sure about sages cant really speak on it , but i see ur point face off with a bm and archer its a wonder depending who is the bm and archer.

But i cant see myself without HoS with my under refined bm in a mass pvp.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · November 2014

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

If it helps, I am a sage, so no demon bell for me.

And we've reached the heart of the problem

On the note of HOS, its very much a 1v1 skill and not a particularly useful one at that. Its really only there for if your awful and drop stunlock on a seeker, but hey if your server has a million metal mages and archers who try to metal skill fully buffed bm's in tw go for it.

Also pwi why you drag me back in, why.

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2014

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

And we've reached the heart of the problem

On the note of HOS, its very much a 1v1 skill and not a particularly useful one at that. Its really only there for if your awful and drop stunlock on a seeker, but hey if your server has a million metal mages and archers who try to metal skill fully buffed bm's in tw go for it.

Also pwi why you drag me back in, why.

Sage = fail, demon = scum b:cute

Getting serious again...

It's not really about being in a 1v1 scenario, I don't PK much at all, I stick to TW and NW, and even still I NW on my sin 75% of the time. It's about having that BM, sin, seeker, and 2 archers on you at once when suddenly a third seeker appears and my friendly DD take out the two squishy psychics since we don't have a very thick population of endgame arcanes. I say thick because we do have a notable number, but they are all spread through different factions. In the event there are arcanes on me, windshield is my bread and butter and my almost constant go to skill.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · November 2014

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

I already said it would not replace magic marrow, especially since it only lasts 7 seconds, marrow is basically constant.

Reading.

GG.

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

By this logic, I'm starting to wonder if it's beginning to make more sense to not marrow and use Heart of Steal making us immune to metal and only being officially threatened by the three classes that deal water/earth/fire.

GG. I guess you should start reading what you write?

TheDan - Sanctuary · November 2014

Metal shouldn't really hurt you to begin with if your character is well maintained with the spirit from astral sky dailies. Undine strike and a quick sutra combo or gank would put you on danger quick though. It's so much easier to just demon bell and magic marrow spam not only for defensive reasons but how do you expect to leap forward and back without the constant 20 chi per 10 seconds our marrows give us? The only time a bm is in real danger is when we are purged and stunned which is where balance comes handy to keep us anti stunned and shielded until able to leap to safety. A full buffed demon belled and marrowed bm is pretty hard to take down to begin with, and if you're dying full buffed then you're either in way over your head or too far out of position in your squad.

And to be honest at least on my server, archers clerics and seekers don't even target me anymore because their classes aren't meant to target bms in the first place, whereas wizards and psychics do. Archers and seekers are better off killing squishes and clerics are better off healing buffing and rezzing so that already eliminates the threat of metal damage. I mean sure they can use metal attacks but they're being less efficient at their main role.

Oh and I just read that you're sage. It still shouldn't matter. Matchless ascesion cape and nw r9 ring already solves a lot of the physical def problems with marrow on. All you're probably missing is spirit and defense level probably if you're still dying a lot.

Saethos - Raging Tide · November 2014

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

GG. I guess you should start reading what you write?

I didn't say replace, did I? GG

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Metal shouldn't really hurt you to begin with if your character is well maintained with the spirit from astral sky dailies. Undine strike and a quick sutra combo or gank would put you on danger quick though. It's so much easier to just demon bell and magic marrow spam not only for defensive reasons but how do you expect to leap forward and back without the constant 20 chi per 10 seconds our marrows give us? The only time a bm is in real danger is when we are purged and stunned which is where balance comes handy to keep us anti stunned and shielded until able to leap to safety. A full buffed demon belled and marrowed bm is pretty hard to take down to begin with, and if you're dying full buffed then you're either in way over your head or too far out of position in your squad.

And to be honest at least on my server, archers clerics and seekers don't even target me anymore because their classes aren't meant to target bms in the first place, whereas wizards and psychics do. Archers and seekers are better off killing squishes and clerics are better off healing buffing and rezzing so that already eliminates the threat of metal damage. I mean sure they can use metal attacks but they're being less efficient at their main role.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh and I just read that you're sage. It still shouldn't matter. Matchless ascesion cape and nw r9 ring already solves a lot of the physical def problems with marrow on. All you're probably missing is spirit and defense level probably if you're still dying a lot.

I find I get targeted by lots of seekers, but most of them are negligable anyway. It is a good point though that when I do find a good psy or wiz I do feel it, so that's fair. Most of the time I'm getting hit it is metal, as I said, but my marrow reduces a lot of it. Still, you are right about clerics healing (If they aren't, I'll just drop an HF and watch my squad do some killing) and balance does suffice for many situations, I just don't use it much due to the cost, usually I windshield (It's around 23% on my genie, very helpful.)

As far as spirit and other such things, I'm missing more than that b:surrender Currently I don't even have my r9rr weapon, just a t3 dual axe and it is +10 (was a gift, I personally would have spent the money on GSTs instead) so my damage leaves a lot to be desired. I am focusing on GSTs for now to get my weapon, and because of that I do not have the r9r ring, I only have 2 pieces of my armor +10, and I'm using t3 cape and helmet. My second ring is a skycover, so it does make up for some physical defense, but it's also only +6. I am a little behind on spirit, but it really isn't so bad, I believe I have 750 plus or minus (not logged in or I'd just check) with spirit coin and RW buff, which is still behind but completely manageable. Because of this my Go-To weapon in TW is my defense level axe.

Last I checked, self buffed my defenses are rather low for most BMs with 23k p.def and 22k m.def in magic marrow. Again, not logged in so I can't get exact numbers. I'm in the process of leveling my M.Def A card so I can rebirth it and level it further (Once I do I imagine magic damage will be much MUCH less stressful to take)

Sylvae - Sanctuary · December 2014

Eh, I still love tormenting BMs. Cast Dimensional Seal followed by Cyclone, BMs go mag marrow thinking the debuff muSst be the elemental one. Sleep, debuff some more, Tangling Mire, then Plume the money Shots.

It's fun, because it's cruel. Especially against sages.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · December 2014

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

I didn't say replace, did I? GG

You said not use marrow so unless you didnt marrow in past you are effectively talking bout replacing marrow. At times I wonder how such simple logic escapes some people.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · December 2014

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Eh, I still love tormenting BMs. Cast Dimensional Seal followed by Cyclone, BMs go mag marrow thinking the debuff muSst be the elemental one. Sleep, debuff some more, Tangling Mire, then Plume the money Shots.

Man wanna hear a joke?

Sage bm's

mkat · December 2014

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Man wanna hear a joke?

Sage bm's

Lol, I swear 90% of the time I ask a sage bm, why they went sage?

They wanted to be different. b:chuckle

I honestly still have no idea why a bm would go sage tho, even after reading all the threads about sage vs demon.

Heart of steel is good if you don't have the gear to tank I guess. I used it for awhile, but found I felt it was a waste of genie energy and since switched it out for balance, there are just plenty of other options to use. I also have to wonder about your genie skills, you have no fortify on a dex genie, and wanting to put tangling mire. Also no AD, I think you would benefit more from a high mag/vit genie. You're wanting to use the dex to reduce the cost of heart of steel, when theres still a 30 sec cooldown, you're reducing it what 20 energy?

Saethos - Raging Tide · December 2014

mkat wrote: »

Lol, I swear 90% of the time I ask a sage bm, why they went sage?

They wanted to be different. b:chuckle

I honestly still have no idea why a bm would go sage tho, even after reading all the threads about sage vs demon.

Heart of steel is good if you don't have the gear to tank I guess. I used it for awhile, but found I felt it was a waste of genie energy and since switched it out for balance, there are just plenty of other options to use. I also have to wonder about your genie skills, you have no fortify on a dex genie, and wanting to put tangling mire. Also no AD, I think you would benefit more from a high mag/vit genie. You're wanting to use the dex to reduce the cost of heart of steel, when theres still a 30 sec cooldown, you're reducing it what 20 energy?

The dex is not to reduce the cost of Heart of Steel, I tried HoS for a weekend on my genie and I was disappointed, it definitely sounds better on paper than it does in practice. I use my windshield almost constant and also have reduced the amount of vit on my genie and replaced it with magic, which allows me to almost constantly keep windshield up, reducing all damage by around 22% at all times. This combine with my defense level r8r axe lets me play a tanky when I need to, but my newly received r9rr axes (Just got them this weekend, finally) are already making mince meat of a few people that used to threaten me simply because my t3 was not enough DD. Though thanks for the feedback.

Kniraven - Lost City · December 2014

Skimmed the thread, didn't read every detail of every post.
Here are my comments.

1.) Heart of Steel is a great skill both in 1v1 (particularly vs seekers and clerics) and in group PvP. I've been using it for a while now. It helps a ton.

2.) Occult ice is a fantastic 1v1 skill on a strength genie. It is not a very good group PvP skill.

3.) Sage BM Advantages:
Better Party Buff / Consistent High Defense w/out need to spam skill every 10 seconds
Diamond Sutra chance to recover 70% hp (better than a charm tick)
Superior Magic Marrow / Magic Defense
Ocean's Edge 20% chance to freeze enemy in place
Sage Hillborn increases crit rate by 20%

Heavens Flame only consumes 1.25 sparks
Dragon Rising has 35% chance to not consume chi
Roar costs 15 less chi
Sage Chi Skill +50 chi
Ferocious Leap = +20 chi every 3 seconds w/ any weapon (can be used twice between Star Smites)

Sylvae - Sanctuary · December 2014

Honestly it depends on the size and type of PvP you're talking about, and the gear your BM has.

HoS and other type specific immunities are great, when you have some measure of control for eliminating the other types. So for ranged such as a cleric, it's pretty decent to have. You control distance, know in general what can hit you, and defend against other types as needed.

For BMs, that's where it can fall apart. If it's a target of equal or greater power, you're pretty much stuck going into melee ranged. Usually it involves running/leaping to get into distance quick for stuns, and at that point you've ceded control of the people who can attack you, by and large.

In a small group scuffle in NW, that isn't too much of an issue. A lot of fighting over flag, crystal, or whatever let's you separate the possible attackers out. So completely removing someone's ability to damage you with their preferred damage type is great. Seeker would be hit particularly hard and lose their shot to kill you, leaving them open for stun sequence. At least until people get used to seeing it anyways.

In larger groups, or TWs, you're going to be hit by a rainbow. In those situations, it's usually outgear or invulnerable to run in and do what you need to do. Being immune to one element type doesn't matter much if you're immune to everything already. A case could be made for if you're picking off healers or something, but not as much cause for it there.

So for right now, as long as few people use it, it has its place in 1v1/small pvp/outgear pvp situations. 1 v 1 against a cleric they have no choice but to immobilize and get distance for it to wear off. Which if it does that with less energy cost than a normal skill would, that ends up leaving the BM better off over-all.

Once people get used to it, that just ends up being a switch to next element and waste the energy though. And the only ones still most affected, have the means to get away or turn it to their advantage. Sleep use up might be nice, but they can use that time to Aurora stack the BM. Archers can wait until it wears off. Other classes can use one of their other element types and focus on that. Once it gets accustomed to, its just going to be energy wasted to only inconvenience the opponent. At that point, it can really only be used as a last ditch effort to give a charm time to recharge, instead of more proactive use.

That's what I took from it anyways. My BM had years old gear, though a nice DEF level, and HoS helped only when the other side was as described, or stacked heavy with archers. Those cases were fun, since r9rr's were shooting away for 0 damage, while one mystic almost killed me while I was killing a BM. Other than that, getting into the thick of things usually negated the benefit of the skill from the rainbow damage. At that point I used it as a spite kill, making it so any archer who hunted me down wouldn't get the kill or contribution points.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · December 2014

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Skimmed the thread, didn't read every detail of every post.
Here are my comments.

1.) Heart of Steel is a terrible skill both in 1v1 (particularly vs seekers and clerics) and in group PvP. I've been using it for a while now. I feel dead inside.

2.) Occult ice is a fantastic 1v1 skill on a strength genie. It is not a very good group PvP skill.

3.) Sage BM Advantages:
Better Party Buff / Consistent High Defense w/out need to spam skill every 10 seconds
Diamond Sutra's stupidly low chance to recover 70% hp (better than a charm tick)
Terrible mag marrow
Ocean's Edge 20% chance to freeze enemy in place
Sage Hillborn increases crit rate by 20%, totally worth wasting half my roar for.

Heavens Flame only consumes 1.25 sparks but its so weak I feel lonely
Dragon Rising has 35% chance to not consume chi and I waste more chi on dropped stunlocks
Roar costs 15 less chi
Sage Chi Skill +50 chi and only takes 2 seconds to cast!
Ferocious Leap = +20 chi every 3 seconds w/ any weapon if I'm at mele (can be used twice between Star Smites)

Fixed

Sage has 1 really good skill in roar, and one base buffer skill in bell. You give up more chi with sages need to waste time everyfrigginwhere than you do with demon outside of HF, and sage HF is awful outside of rolling easy kills.

The "playstyle" of sage is having bad chi management.

HoS is still a crappy 1v1 seeker hoser.

Saethos - Raging Tide · December 2014

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fixed

Sage has 1 really good skill in roar, and one base buffer skill in bell. You give up more chi with sages need to waste time everyfrigginwhere than you do with demon outside of HF, and sage HF is awful outside of rolling easy kills.

The "playstyle" of sage is having bad chi management.

HoS is still a crappy 1v1 seeker hoser.

In numerous sage vs demon threads even sage BMs have laughed at this guys reasons for sage. He did it for all the wrong reasons, so don't mind him. Then he called everyone in those threds idiots for disagreeing with him

I mean, for one he thinks sage HF is better. Just lol. I'd sacrifice a goat to satan for demon HF on a sage BM.

But sage magic marrow is better endgame since you still have more P.Def than M.Def and P.Damage is not a concern to a BM at all...at least any BM worth a damn, regardless of marrow. Pre-endgame/scrub BM, demon would be better.

Any sage proc's below 50% are negligible but sex when they happen. (Well aside from sage hillborn, once you get those crits...)

You also keep going on about stunlocks, as if sages don't have them. You do know that there's more than one stun in our arsenal, right? CielDeLumen, best undergeared BM, possibly most skilled BM, on our server has a pretty unbreakable stunlock. He's sage. He does not use Occult Ice. And no, he does not rely on Aeolian Blade. Besides, GG with the stunlock once purify ticks.

Zanryu - Lothranis · December 2014

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

In numerous sage vs demon threads even sage BMs have laughed at this guys reasons for sage. He did it for all the wrong reasons, so don't mind him. Then he called everyone in those threds idiots for disagreeing with him

I mean, for one he thinks sage HF is better. Just lol. I'd sacrifice a goat to satan for demon HF on a sage BM.

But sage magic marrow is better endgame since you still have more P.Def than M.Def and P.Damage is not a concern to a BM at all...at least any BM worth a damn, regardless of marrow. Pre-endgame/scrub BM, demon would be better.

Any sage proc's below 50% are negligible but sex when they happen. (Well aside from sage hillborn, once you get those crits...)

You also keep going on about stunlocks, as if sages don't have them. You do know that there's more than one stun in our arsenal, right? CielDeLumen, best undergeared BM, possibly most skilled BM, on our server has a pretty unbreakable stunlock. He's sage. He does not use Occult Ice. And no, he does not rely on Aeolian Blade. Besides, GG with the stunlock once purify ticks.

I hate to break it to you, but if the two BMs are of equal skill, a Sage can't out-stunlock a Demon. The true advantage of going Sage was the ability to maintain chi easier, and with the introduction of Star Smite they lost most of that advantage. It's still easier for a Sage to conserve chi, however Demons now have a way to recover chi while in combat.

Demons have a better stunlock, a better group PvP buff with the only downside being that it must be spammed and can overwrite pill buffs, and a far superior HF. Sage has better chi management, higher base damage, and... that's about it. The damage isn't worth much though, in 1v1 it's the stunlock that wins your fights and Demons can do it better. In group PvP/TW you have other DDs to damage, and even as Sage you won't really have relevant damage on end game fullybuffed targets anyway. Demons will be able to drain the chi of key targets, as well as debuff them with a far better HF.

Demons > Sages.

My body is ready for your hate and tears Sage BMs.

Saethos - Raging Tide · December 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

My body is ready for your hate and tears Sage BMs.

Where are these tears you speak of?

Such hostile.
Much anger.
Very wow.

Sylvae - Sanctuary · December 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

My body is ready for your hate and tears Sage BMs.

What kind of kinky sex parlor have the BM forums become? And do I still maintain membership?

Zanryu - Lothranis · December 2014

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

What kind of kinky sex parlor have the BM forums become? And do I still maintain membership?

As long as I can put my wiener in your butt.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · December 2014

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

In numerous sage vs demon threads even sage BMs have laughed at this guys reasons for sage. He did it for all the wrong reasons, so don't mind him. Then he called everyone in those threds idiots for disagreeing with him

I mean, for one he thinks sage HF is better. Just lol. I'd sacrifice a goat to satan for demon HF on a sage BM.

But sage magic marrow is better endgame since you still have more P.Def than M.Def and P.Damage is not a concern to a BM at all...at least any BM worth a damn, regardless of marrow. Pre-endgame/scrub BM, demon would be better.

Any sage proc's below 50% are negligible but sex when they happen. (Well aside from sage hillborn, once you get those crits...)

You also keep going on about stunlocks, as if sages don't have them. You do know that there's more than one stun in our arsenal, right? CielDeLumen, best undergeared BM, possibly most skilled BM, on our server has a pretty unbreakable stunlock. He's sage. He does not use Occult Ice. And no, he does not rely on Aeolian Blade. Besides, GG with the stunlock once purify ticks.

b:bye Your done now.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · December 2014

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

As long as I can put my wiener in your butt.

Dibs on the first reacharound

Saethos - Raging Tide · December 2014

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:bye Your done now.

Countering my point with a point that counters your point. Pointception.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · December 2014

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Countering my point with a point that counters your point. Pointception.

...wut

I was just pointing out why your not allowed to have an opinion in any topic regarding cultivation ever again because you clearly have no idea how this game works.

Guess im spelling this out. By highlighting the areas of your text I did I was implying that.

Sage bm's cannot lock without a bridge skill, period, demon bm's can buffer their lock to frame perfect without a bridge skill meaning they can save all geni energy for catching chi and survivability.

Demon HF> ACCed DB > lolpurify

BM and Heart of Steel

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