BM and Heart of Steel

Saethos - Raging Tide

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demon HF> ACCed DB > lolpurify

>Not a stunlock.

Sage can do that, too.

Are you sure it's me that doesn't know how this game works? xD

Your argument comes down to "Sage BMs are all ****" which is just hilarious at best. I'm the one sitting here constantly arguing against demons that sage is viable, then arguing against the sages that say demon is bad because the fact is both are very much equal, just different playstyles. Demon is for more aggressive players and sage is for more passive players. Having been both I will never switch back.

Demon was great for PK, and it came in handy when barbs were actually hard to kill for the longer HF, locking a single target was easier...Extra time in DB was priceless.

But as I stopped PKing and focused more on TW I switched to sage. At first it felt like a mistake, but as time went on I adjusted to the way the sage skills work. Now in modern PWI a well timed HF needs only 3 seconds, so even level 10 will eliminate most targets. Single target stuns are much MUCH less important in TW as you should be focusing on groups, sins are better at taking out individual targets, and battles are overall shorter. Demons "bursts" of all their best skills are better, but a sage can unleash them more consecutively. Any sage that claims they went sage for the chi management is funny because the chi management isn't even better. You still need two sparks to cast HF, you don't rely on 33% chance on Dragon Rising, Ferocious Leap is just a time-filler in TW, and overall the chi argument is negligible.

There is no denying that demon is better in PK, but at least here on RT server, PK is dead and full of try-hard kids trying to measure their egos, surely a ruler would be easier. In TW, demon is still very good, but sage is on par. Yes, certain individual skills look better, but you have to do more than look at the skills and look directly at the application of those skills. In TW you don't use DR to lock a target you do it to prevent Purify Spell, and if you are doing it to prevent Purify, there are probably multiple people attacking the same target. I doubt, and I know, that 1.5 seconds only makes a serious difference in 1v1, and as I said, that's why demon is better in PK (among other reasons). I agree demon HF is better, but I disagree if you think HF needs to be better in the first place. If you time it right not much time is needed at all, even 6 seconds is overkill when you have a squad with even one member that can deal 20k+ on an endgame barb with HF on them (Psys mostly, at least on RT) and another couple AoE's going on in the HF-zone.

Neither is better, to think one is better is to not understand how the game works in a way I personally can't comprehend. Yes I'd like some of those demon skills on my sage BM, but more as a fail safe than them being more necessary. In case the target ADs have the extra 3 seconds, or I can force their genie in cooldown anyway by playing smart. The phrase "Work Smart Not Hard" comes to mind.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

I was going to be sardonic assuming this was a troll post but I'll level with you.

Demons can do everything a sage can at a slightly higher skill and effort cost.
What I mean by this is simple thanks to the wonders of gear swapping, access to geni, apocs, the chi boost from primal, and a lot of skill useage tricks (yes those exist) demon has no drawbacks when compared to sage when used by a skilled player.


Sages can do nothing a demon can do.
Sage lacks demons burst damage, dps, crowd control, and chi burn. Hell in combat they actually gain less chi than an ideally played demon bm. Yes you can stun/HF/Whatever... like a level 88 bm.

Even in TW, facing a well organized well geared faction where both culti's job is simply to support demon has the advantages of actually being able to force kills through AD on single targets, and murderbombing even the best geared squads into oblivion. (With squad support ofc).

Survival on both culti's does favor demon however survival is 99.999% gear based in mass pvp and on a bm in TW its litteraly apoc and geni based in any significant fight. And all bm's respawn with 0 chi, demons simply have to actually hit a now immortal post for about 10 seconds to get back to kill levels rather than hitting a chi skill then hitting the post for 9 seconds.

Even in sages best area...
Sage is an annoyance that can be played around
Demon is a death sentence when played well

Even if massive overgear makes the gains from demon irrelevant in tw for you in the short term allowing you the luxury of sages convenience. In the future there are 2 real paths, gear level rises ot the point where demons power is again needed and your so ingrained in the sage path that you've forgotten how to be a real bm. Or the game dies and all thats left is pvp against other overgears and demons power is again required etc. Your a mele, aggression is required as a mele in a game that's all about zoning and spacing because mele's will always lose the long fight in any kind of pvp and demon is simply much, much, much better in the short battle while maintaining parity with sage at the worst in the long fight.

If you do not know the technical aspects of why the above is true you have no opinion that matters and can be ignored freely. If you do get how the bm do then by all means keep the convenience but know that with the newest expansion and eventual gear equity there is no reason to ever advocate the culti to another.

TL:DR In any game the path with the higher skill cap will always be better assuming equity in base power. Demon has both higher base power and a higher skill cap.

Saethos - Raging Tide

Lol...Evading everything I said. This thread is derailed, if a mod sees this, just close it. Enough association with arrogant dolts.

No sage has an opinion that matters.

opkossy

As requested~