Stop... Sucking...

Sylvae - Sanctuary · December 2014

Only thing is, even the people siding with you seemed to be doing it based on instances not similar to what you described either. They also weren't in squad, but you don't seem to use that against their viewpoint as you did for detractors.

The thing is, there isn't any proof enough to state it was the cleric's fault, as long as there is plausible reasoning behind it. And the short boss fight, coupled with static timings and such, could easily explain your lack of being healed.

First there is the tank issue, which is a combined your fault (lolgasm) and the tank's fault. The tank either did not use a proper tanking skill, along with your combined impatience to get the debuff out. But since it was a 23 second fight, your impatience likely would have shifted the time it takes upwards to 24 at most. Which makes it insane to **** up any heal prep just to shave at most 1 second off the time.

The healer themselves would then be waiting to see the first hit going before getting their proper heal stack going, and if going for max effectiveness that would be two IBs cast with aftercast canceling immediately after the first spell. That locks them up for a good few seconds, but also ensures the most healing to prevent any charm ticking on the person the group apparently designated tank. They can't really shift midcast, and are down while finishing out the cast time of the second IB.

This is also usually when a cleric would then get in position for any CHB they might need to do. For that they look for the most middle spot of the group, with the tank being in range if necessary, and go there to make sure to hit the most amount of people. If they used it twice even in that battle, you're not saying the cleric is bad for hitting 2/3; you're saying the other 1/3 are apparently morons. And I've had times where I constantly had to reposition, because some moron DDs kept moving around for whatever reason, when the fight did not at all require it.

Every DD who goes to these forums, and in groups, always make the claim that they had aggro and never lost it. I've had them state that in the group, even though I was watching their health bar, and someone else's, play pong in who could catch the most aggro. That isn't a statement that can be taken at face value without proof, because DDs don't watch the party bar with that kind of eye. I've seen it time and time again both on forum and in game.

The timing of hits throws things. If someone gets aggro who didn't have a heal stack, while a CHB is going off, and their charm ticks around the time it goes off, how would they know it wasn't their heal that did it? That's anoter thing.

Anyways, you have initial heal stack and the tank that was supposed to be, reposition, quick heal off for those who might need it (should be IB, but if they got a wellspring off it could have done jack since your charm redid your health before it hit), prep for the purge if needed during boss special, CHB, and you're already halfway through the fight. Add in some lag spike, and it's basically over.

They could try to get a Wellspring, but if you're charmed and auto-potted with not a large amount of health those quite often get wasted. IB works great, if it runs its course and gets its pre-stacks. Halfway through the fight, and there isn't a point. Heck in a 23 second boss fight, unless there are some purges needed, the traditional cleric thing is to toss off some DD at the end. Because there role is basically done by then. The heals are rolling with IB and there's nothing left to do.

So really, the only thing we can say for sure is you didn't let the designated tank get aggro, before stealing it. And if you didn't go over you wanting to tank before hand, that's on you completely. If the cleric didn't get heals off on the tank in the beginning, you'd possibly have a point. If the fight was longer so that the cleric would have time to adjust but didn't, you'd have a point. As it stands, the only fault that can truly be found for sure, is with your play.

And in that instance, why wouldn't the cleric be annoyed? In the end it would come down to at most 3 charm ticks, which wouldn't be very much with your low health. And it was a right away thing, that you forgive yourself for by saying you didn't think they'd maintain aggro anyways. But to everyone else in the group, you boned up by being impatient, where even the best reasoning (getting the most max hp decrease from STA) doesn't matter at all because of how little that would matter in over-all fight length.

EDIT: And to clarify, the end for when clerics attack is when boss is dead in a couple seconds, and everyone is doing in health. Not halfway point or some static measure that gives it a variable length anywhere from seconds to minutes. Adding that in, because you know some forum troll would pick at it otherwise.

eraldus · December 2014

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Only thing is, even the people siding with you seemed to be doing it based on instances not similar to what you described either. They also weren't in squad, but you don't seem to use that against their viewpoint as you did for detractors.

The thing is, there isn't any proof enough to state it was the cleric's fault, as long as there is plausible reasoning behind it. And the short boss fight, coupled with static timings and such, could easily explain your lack of being healed.

First there is the tank issue, which is a combined your fault (lolgasm) and the tank's fault. The tank either did not use a proper tanking skill, along with your combined impatience to get the debuff out. But since it was a 23 second fight, your impatience likely would have shifted the time it takes upwards to 24 at most. Which makes it insane to **** up any heal prep just to shave at most 1 second off the time.

The healer themselves would then be waiting to see the first hit going before getting their proper heal stack going, and if going for max effectiveness that would be two IBs cast with aftercast canceling immediately after the first spell. That locks them up for a good few seconds, but also ensures the most healing to prevent any charm ticking on the person the group apparently designated tank. They can't really shift midcast, and are down while finishing out the cast time of the second IB.

This is also usually when a cleric would then get in position for any CHB they might need to do. For that they look for the most middle spot of the group, with the tank being in range if necessary, and go there to make sure to hit the most amount of people. If they used it twice even in that battle, you're not saying the cleric is bad for hitting 2/3; you're saying the other 1/3 are apparently morons. And I've had times where I constantly had to reposition, because some moron DDs kept moving around for whatever reason, when the fight did not at all require it.

Every DD who goes to these forums, and in groups, always make the claim that they had aggro and never lost it. I've had them state that in the group, even though I was watching their health bar, and someone else's, play pong in who could catch the most aggro. That isn't a statement that can be taken at face value without proof, because DDs don't watch the party bar with that kind of eye. I've seen it time and time again both on forum and in game.

The timing of hits throws things. If someone gets aggro who didn't have a heal stack, while a CHB is going off, and their charm ticks around the time it goes off, how would they know it wasn't their heal that did it? That's anoter thing.

Anyways, you have initial heal stack and the tank that was supposed to be, reposition, quick heal off for those who might need it (should be IB, but if they got a wellspring off it could have done jack since your charm redid your health before it hit), prep for the purge if needed during boss special, CHB, and you're already halfway through the fight. Add in some lag spike, and it's basically over.

They could try to get a Wellspring, but if you're charmed and auto-potted with not a large amount of health those quite often get wasted. IB works great, if it runs its course and gets its pre-stacks. Halfway through the fight, and there isn't a point. Heck in a 23 second boss fight, unless there are some purges needed, the traditional cleric thing is to toss off some DD at the end. Because there role is basically done by then. The heals are rolling with IB and there's nothing left to do.

So really, the only thing we can say for sure is you didn't let the designated tank get aggro, before stealing it. And if you didn't go over you wanting to tank before hand, that's on you completely. If the cleric didn't get heals off on the tank in the beginning, you'd possibly have a point. If the fight was longer so that the cleric would have time to adjust but didn't, you'd have a point. As it stands, the only fault that can truly be found for sure, is with your play.

And in that instance, why wouldn't the cleric be annoyed? In the end it would come down to at most 3 charm ticks, which wouldn't be very much with your low health. And it was a right away thing, that you forgive yourself for by saying you didn't think they'd maintain aggro anyways. But to everyone else in the group, you boned up by being impatient, where even the best reasoning (getting the most max hp decrease from STA) doesn't matter at all because of how little that would matter in over-all fight length.

EDIT: And to clarify, the end for when clerics attack is when boss is dead in a couple seconds, and everyone is doing in health. Not halfway point or some static measure that gives it a variable length anywhere from seconds to minutes. Adding that in, because you know some forum troll would pick at it otherwise.

This x ∞

Plus charms are cheap to get (ftp player here saying it), so let me quote on your thread title:

"Stop... Sucking..." and wasting coins with teles for your WC drama.

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

beniyoung wrote: »

We can see here:

2-Cleric Heal Priority always was the tank. LA class (sin and archers) always are the last in list for got heal

If his archer got the aggro and doesn't get 1-2 shotted, that makes him the tank.

TruthWarren - Raging Tide · December 2014

eraldus wrote: »

This x ∞

Plus charms are cheap to get (ftp player here saying it), so let me quote on your thread title:

"Stop... Sucking..." and wasting coins with teles for your WC drama.

It doesn't matter if charms are free. It's the principle of the matter. Stop making excuses.

ZetsumieX - Raging Tide · December 2014

TruthWarren - Raging Tide wrote: »

It doesn't matter if charms are free. It's the principle of the matter. Stop making excuses.

The principle of the matter is if u say "LOL this game is dead, everyone should quit and get a life like me" is to ***** stick to it and stop giving "lessons" to ppl

but yea, PvE is just LOL to require cleric to just heal most of the times. Also archers should learn to not pull aggro ijs, seen alot of ppl that dunno how to nerf themselves (DD wise to allow tank to do its job) to not die, in this case charm tick.

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are taking a lot of the stuff I say out of context or just ignoring it. I was annoyed that the cleric wasn't clericing. b:kiss

also, WOOT FINALLY CLERICS SIDING WITH ME!

1 charm tick, endless QQ. Reminds me of the the I saw someone world chatting for 30 mins over someone not dropping 100k for a mold. It amounted to about 500k+ coin spent in teles. b:chuckle

Did you warn the cleric, rest of the squad you were probably taking aggro? I doubt it very much. That one hit the barb did could have missed. You could have given him an extra 2 seconds to allow proper aggro. You probably wouldn't have ticked then. You probably had the attitude "it's only bh so it doesn't matter" by being impatient. I've seen people do that in FSP too. High power DD ripping at toad gets others killed. If you want to cry about how it "should have been", then play that way yourself.

I see one of your responses after this so let me respond to that too. Had you not stolen aggro on your archer you would have done 2x more damage by being able to range it. Controlling aggro would have allowed for that, it would have taken 2 extra seconds.

nanbo554 · December 2014

All these instant gratification kids rushing to the end and not willing to learn skill. So many games out there that cater to them. Why are they here? Oddly, in my *** and RIFT game play, there were people with the "take your time patiences" approach...in both games where I end game boredome in 2 weeks...
Tell them Patrick:
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/56829683.jpg

Xaner - Dreamweaver · December 2014

Aye, In the end its up to the Cleric to decide whether or not he/she is healing or DDing... (Also heavily depends on this gear) If the Cleric does have their mind set that they're going to DD.. they should speak up and say so, so squad can either kick and find a better DD or find another healer.

In the end, Lesson Learned: Find a badazz mystic healer that can do both.. Be a damn good healer and DDer. Hell i have tanked boss and healed my squad before(FSP).

Ibunneh - Raging Tide · December 2014

Xaner - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Aye, In the end its up to the Cleric to decide whether or not he/she is healing or DDing... (Also heavily depends on this gear) If the Cleric does have their mind set that they're going to DD.. they should speak up and say so, so squad can either kick and find a better DD or find another healer.

In the end, Lesson Learned: Find a badazz mystic healer that can do both.. Be a damn good healer and DDer. Hell i have tanked boss and healed my squad before(FSP).

And this right here, are why Mystic's are awesome

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · December 2014

ZetsumieX - Raging Tide wrote: »

The principle of the matter is if u say "LOL this game is dead, everyone should quit and get a life like me" is to ***** stick to it and stop giving "lessons" to ppl

but yea, PvE is just LOL to require cleric to just heal most of the times. Also archers should learn to not pull aggro ijs, seen alot of ppl that dunno how to nerf themselves (DD wise to allow tank to do its job) to not die, in this case charm tick.

If I can tank stuff on my base 20k hp archer, why should I control my damage and make the damn thing take longer? Only place where I really bother controlling aggro is toad as Im too lazy to make expel genie to tank it.

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Did you warn the cleric, rest of the squad you were probably taking aggro? I doubt it very much. That one hit the barb did could have missed. You could have given him an extra 2 seconds to allow proper aggro. You probably wouldn't have ticked then. You probably had the attitude "it's only bh so it doesn't matter" by being impatient. I've seen people do that in FSP too. High power DD ripping at toad gets others killed. If you want to cry about how it "should have been", then play that way yourself.

I see one of your responses after this so let me respond to that too. Had you not stolen aggro on your archer you would have done 2x more damage by being able to range it. Controlling aggro would have allowed for that, it would have taken 2 extra seconds.

These sort of posts are the reason these forums are a joke. Fleshream, which most barbs use to open and should use to open, never misses.

If melee range halves your dps as an archer, you are doing something very wrong. It is also illogical to assume if barb cant pull aggro of melee range boss(it was nowhere stated this was in melee range though) what are the chances barb keeps it off archer that isnt in melee range?

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

ZetsumieX - Raging Tide wrote: »

but yea, PvE is just LOL to require cleric to just heal most of the times. Also archers should learn to not pull aggro ijs, seen alot of ppl that dunno how to nerf themselves (DD wise to allow tank to do its job) to not die, in this case charm tick.

This is true, although I think it is ok for also others than just the barb do the tanking. Or, in my cleric's case I'm the one healing AND tanking, sigh.

It's the worst when I'm on my barb and have a T3 or r9rr player with good damage so I let them have aggro and go DD, clerics will keep healing me though I tell them to heal the other person.

Sylvae - Sanctuary · December 2014

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is true, although I think it is ok for also others than just the barb do the tanking. Or, in my cleric's case I'm the one healing AND tanking, sigh.

It's the worst when I'm on my barb and have a T3 or r9rr player with good damage so I let them have aggro and go DD, clerics will keep healing me though I tell them to heal the other person.

Again though, it's the short duration of this fight, and other factors, that don't point right away to the cleric being bad. A good cleric stacks on the person the group apparently went with as the tank. Also CHB was apparently required, which kills 3 or so seconds on its own, not counting positioning time. If the healer tosses off a Wellspring or such for a quick heal on the archer, it can be lost with no effect if it falls shortly after their charm tick.

So the main thing we know for certain is lolgasm jacked up in their premature attackulation. This isn't 2008/2009, archers aren't supposed to be shooting off STA right after tank makes one attack when it is a barb doing it. Because STA is still an attack, and with the dex on archers nowadays it has a good chance to crit. So the archer should either claim tank status from the get go, or hold up on going gangbusters.

Because again, all DDs claim they never lose aggro, even when they do switch it back and forth with others. And if they had an APS sin or fist BM in the group, the healer might have For the cleric to be obviously at fault, the fight would have gone longer, and we'd have to have proof that the archer maintained aggro at all times. In such a case the healer not picking the proper tank would definitely be at fault, and not even lag would mitigate it.

TruthWarren - Raging Tide · December 2014

ZetsumieX - Raging Tide wrote: »

The principle of the matter is if u say "LOL this game is dead, everyone should quit and get a life like me" is to ***** stick to it and stop giving "lessons" to ppl

This part is completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. Child.

but yea, PvE is just LOL to require cleric to just heal most of the times. Also archers should learn to not pull aggro ijs, seen alot of ppl that dunno how to nerf themselves (DD wise to allow tank to do its job) to not die, in this case charm tick.

If the Cleric needs to be doing anything other than healing, the squad can let them know. Otherwise, they need to stick to keeping everyone healed. Also, Barbarians have skills to keep aggro. It's their responsibility to use these skills. If it was already decided that someone other than the Barbarian was going to tank, fine. The squad needs to stick with that.

My responses are in the usual format. Child.

ZetsumieX - Raging Tide · December 2014

TruthWarren - Raging Tide wrote: »

My responses are in the usual format. Child.

So should we see from now on wep links on barbs as requirement in order for their aggro skills to be effective against the op dd's that dun know how to control their dmg and QQ?

Enlighten us, u "i Quit The Game So Many Times and Lol At You all <<Childs>> cuz i'm obviously an Adult"

eraldus · December 2014

TruthWarren - Raging Tide wrote: »

It doesn't matter if charms are free. It's the principle of the matter. Stop making excuses.

What excuses? "Waaaaaahhhh Waaaaaahhhh my charm ticked a few times because the cleric should've watched my charm, MY PRECIOUS CHARM, above anything else in the squad Waaaahhhhh Waaaaaahhhhh!" Charms were made to tick! if you don't wanna have then ticking, don't equip one in the first place, simple... sure, you can't unequp them, which is a another situation... but charms are meant to tick, be yo like it or not.

The cleric's job is to watch for the squad's safety and mainly the tank, and not if some random DD can't hold back his DD and wanna keep Aggro tagging for "hurr durr I can steal ur aggro, I ish pro and u ish suck! hurr durr"

Seriously, OP gear has ruined this game, and now, with everybody being able to tank anything without breaking a sweat, everybody thinks they can do wht they please on a squad...

God, I miss the way this game used to be, waaaaaaay back prior to the RT expansion...

Rapeaxe - Harshlands · December 2014

eraldus wrote: »

What excuses? "Waaaaaahhhh Waaaaaahhhh my charm ticked a few times because the cleric should've watched my charm, MY PRECIOUS CHARM, above anything else in the squad Waaaahhhhh Waaaaaahhhhh!" Charms were made to tick! if you don't wanna have then ticking, don't equip one in the first place, simple... sure, you can't unequp them, which is a another situation... but charms are meant to tick, be yo like it or not.

The cleric's job is to watch for the squad's safety and mainly the tank, and not if some random DD can't hold back his DD and wanna keep Aggro tagging for "hurr durr I can steal ur aggro, I ish pro and u ish suck! hurr durr"

Seriously, OP gear has ruined this game, and now, with everybody being able to tank anything without breaking a sweat, everybody thinks they can do wht they please on a squad...

God, I miss the way this game used to be, waaaaaaay back prior to the RT expansion...

Here is the thing. Most of these fail Clerics do not even know who is wearing a charm. The charm is just an added troll point in all of this. The fact is, there are tons of fail Clerics out there just standing idle during instance runs. Let that be PV or bosses, they just hang back because: "Oh, i'm a healer not dps so Ill stand here. Oh I should heal but nahhh, he looks strong".
I even tested this with 20% charm left. The healer had no idea I was wearing one. I finally said jokingly (serious, but I kind of expected fail and my charm to run out)..."Why is my Charm the only thing healing me?" . Silence in the group. We continue. I announce: "Ok Charm is gone. Please up the heals". Silence. WE continue on...I die, group wipes. I quit, call out the fail cleric and everyone in that group I never met send me PM"s: "DUde, it is not your fault, that Cleric was fail" "Why she not heal?" etc etc etc...
The charm excuse is WEAK on both sides. The barb tanking, charm is a luxury and not at all expected to have heals over charm...But the thing does tick around the 50% mark, so if the healer is waiting that long, it is kind of sad (depending on the fight).
The cleric, I Doubt goes around inspecting every one to see who has a charm. And should not be expected to always heal the person wearing them...but responsible healing, which this cleric in Open Post obviously did not know what to do.
The excuises I have heard, like this post: "I forgot Im on this toon". "I dont have MP charm" "I dont have pots" "lag" " oops".

Colum - Raging Tide · December 2014

I think it all comes down to people having to learn their limits. Knowing what you can and can't handle is important and I feel many aren't aware of their limits.

This also concerns clerics. A good cleric will know who in their squad could be the potential tanks and who is most likely to get aggro. They also know who they have to watch over.

Keisari - Raging Tide · December 2014

These are Kitty's principles as cleric and she does her best to play like that as cleric.

Kitty usually tries to keep everyone's HP full (there's always at least one with charm in squad), timing CHBs so that it heals on same tick as boss' AoE hits (charms don't tick if CHB negates the AoE's damage on same tick) or a second later(many bosses shout something or do a specific attack pattern before they AoE).

Kitty throws just enough IHs to keep tank's(whoever it ish) HP full, usually a stack or 3-4 IHs, then some attacks and debuffs till first IH wears off and a new stack of IHs. Rinse and repeat. In case of aggro pingpong Kitty just gives 1-2 stacks of IH on every participant. It's actually quite fun to try healing 4 tanks at once.b:avoid

If Kitty's bored, she doesn't even use CHB but keeps one IH on every squad member and 3 stacks on tank. Or Kitty does some nuke-combo to get aggro and tank them mobs/boss while healing herself and DDing to keep aggro.

Kitty's quite indiscriminate about tanks. As long as the one with aggro isn't 1- or 2-shot Kitty heals him/her, let it be barb, psy, archer or perhaps wizzie. If some glass cannon/machine gun(a.k.a. +3-refined APS-sins with T3+10-weapon) steals aggro at times, Kitty just lets the squishie die and resses to reset aggro and to make sure the squishie doesn't get it again.b:chuckle

During pulls Kitty prefers healing the one who most likely has aggro over mobs and throwing Wellsprings around if somebody else aggros some mobs. If mobs take a long time to kill or do some serious damage Kitty sets up BB. Or if Kitty's just on lazy mood.b:avoid

Btw, Kitty's confident enough in her heals that she keeps her cleric's Revive at level 1. Just to teach those who die to doing something stupid. It's very hard to die to lack of heals when Kitty's healing. It's actually quite efficient, most don't do the same mistake again after dying once.b:cute

Kitty thinks taking some influence from "Kitty's way of healer nugget" might help some become better clerics.b:shy

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

If I can tank stuff on my base 20k hp archer, why should I control my damage and make the damn thing take longer? Only place where I really bother controlling aggro is toad as Im too lazy to make expel genie to tank it.

These sort of posts are the reason these forums are a joke. Fleshream, which most barbs use to open and should use to open, never misses.

If melee range halves your dps as an archer, you are doing something very wrong. It is also illogical to assume if barb cant pull aggro of melee range boss(it was nowhere stated this was in melee range though) what are the chances barb keeps it off archer that isnt in melee range?

We already discussed the barb was known to the archer as "wasn't going to be able to hold aggro". Archer has +10 wep and +5 gear. Not 20k hp, he said 9k. He also said boss was hitting 500 damage, also think that's was wrong. You for certain the barb used flesh first? Cause I don't think so.

Same as I see in FSP and having to hold back that first heal on toad. Usually I'll stack the barb before he goes in, then wait a few seconds. Sometimes the barb does not get aggro on that first hit, you have to wait a second to make sure. I see DD's all the time not waiting.

I don't just play cleric, I play a sin and archer as well. If I decide to take aggro, I don't decide to QQ some endless butt hurt over a charm tick in world chat then forums. Same if I decide to take aggro on cleric in purple, I don't QQ if the other healer doesn't save my charm. I could not care less about a charm tick or even 4.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

We already discussed the barb was known to the archer as "wasn't going to be able to hold aggro". Archer has +10 wep and +5 gear. Not 20k hp, he said 9k. He also said boss was hitting 500 damage, also think that's was wrong. You for certain the barb used flesh first? Cause I don't think so.

Same as I see in FSP and having to hold back that first heal on toad. Usually I'll stack the barb before he goes in, then wait a few seconds. Sometimes the barb does not get aggro on that first hit, you have to wait a second to make sure. I see DD's all the time not waiting.

I don't just play cleric, I play a sin and archer as well. If I decide to take aggro, I don't decide to QQ some endless butt hurt over a charm tick in world chat then forums. Same if I decide to take aggro on cleric in purple, I don't QQ if the other healer doesn't save my charm. I could not care less about a charm tick or even 4.

You make haflassed assumption bout barb missing, I simply argue they should of fleshreamed, which never misses. Is every barb even remotely competent? No but making assumption bout incompetent barb with no evidence only to support your own agenda isnt exactly convincing argument.

But what does it matter what kind of gear the archer got? They were clearly able to tank it, they did it w/o heals. They were competent tank, no matter if there was a barb present. "Barb is tank" attitude is outdated and stupid when barb really isnt needed to tank anything.

I have played barb, sin, cleric and archer in top level TWs on archo. Does it make me expert in this game in any way? No, neither does you playing more than just a cleric. I rarely complain bout charm ticks but if I have a healer who isnt healing the tank, whoever they might be, I see no reason keeping said healer in squad.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver · December 2014

As a cleric, I don't feel as though it's my job to actually check for charms. That's a little much. I'm more concerned with your gear, and I don't always have a chance to check everyone's. What I notice throughout the instance is if a person's charm ticks. I am OCD about hp being down at all, so I tend to heral LONG before a person is in danger of a charm tick. By OCD about it, I mean that I'll stack heal a barb that is transforming to buff, and then transforming back to buff, only so their hp can go up to full. But chaotic events can happen in a squad, so when these things do occur, this is when I realize that a person may or may not be wearing a charm, because lets face it...at some point, some-way, some-how, your hp is GOING to drop.

Now, once more I'm going to state that this archer was a valid tank, and I can't blame the archer for his actions. Lolgasmic didn't take on an opponent that he couldn't handle. He didn't endanger the squad either. He tanked a boss, and let's face it, that's something that tends to happen. The role of the tank is one that can switch. Whomever can hold aggro on a boss, and survive the bosses assaults IS THE TANK....doesn't matter if it's barb, blademaster, seeker, a veno's herc, a wizard, an archer or otherwise. THAT IS THE TANK. Barb's are designed to be tanks, but that is no guarantee that the barb is the tank in a situation.

The statement of a DD controlling their aggro is a rule that may be broken if certain guidelines are met:

-Can the DD handle the aggro with heals?
-Is the boss is a boss that debuffs, is the DD able to not be a one-shot, so that there is their time to respond?
-Will the DD tanking endanger the squad, and likely cause a squad wipe?

These requirements were met. His archer lived off of charms alone. The cleric...being the primary healer of the game could have, and in fact...should have healed. A few IH's, maybe a CHB or 2, and the rest of time could be spent attacking if the cleric had an itchy trigger finger....and the cleric would have been good to go, but letting someone charm tank because "Oh well, you shouldn't have one on"....Isn't the mindset to have....

Aubree - Dreamweaver · December 2014

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

You make haflassed assumption bout barb missing, I simply argue they should of fleshreamed, which never misses. Is every barb even remotely competent? No but making assumption bout incompetent barb with no evidence only to support your own agenda isnt exactly convincing argument.

But what does it matter what kind of gear the archer got? They were clearly able to tank it, they did it w/o heals. They were competent tank, no matter if there was a barb present. "Barb is tank" attitude is outdated and stupid when barb really isnt needed to tank anything.

I have played barb, sin, cleric and archer in top level TWs on archo. Does it make me expert in this game in any way? No, neither does you playing more than just a cleric. I rarely complain bout charm ticks but if I have a healer who isnt healing the tank, whoever they might be, I see no reason keeping said healer in squad.

As per the OP, the barb took 1 hit, the archer very instantly after used STA and stole the aggro. That is where I say barb could have missed. He also stated he KNEW the barb wasn't going to hold aggro, but didn't care to announce himself as tank. He also said later he thinks the cleric did use CHB, cleric also used 1 plume shot. CHB is kind of long. She could have missed a heal. MY hypothesis is the cleric probably stacked the tank, did some DDing, and used chromatic. That's nothing outside the norm for a cleric role. Someones charm ticked and people want to cry about it.

Oh well. I wish I was so poor to cry about a single charm tick.

There was no making assumptions along the lines you did. Did you not follow what actually happened other than spouting about blah blah 20k hp. Anyone can tank, blah blah. You are the one making assumptions outside of what was known. Had the archer wanted to tank he shouldn't have went along with barb tank from the get go. He should have just said he knew he would take aggro and for cleric to heal him...

But keep complaining about your one single charm tick. Any archer worth his salt could have awakened and healed with triple spark too.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · December 2014

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As per the OP, the barb took 1 hit, the archer very instantly after used STA and stole the aggro. That is where I say barb could have missed. He also stated he KNEW the barb wasn't going to hold aggro, but didn't care to announce himself as tank. He also said later he thinks the cleric did use CHB, cleric also used 1 plume shot. CHB is kind of long. She could have missed a heal. MY hypothesis is the cleric probably stacked the tank, did some DDing, and used chromatic. That's nothing outside the norm for a cleric role. Someones charm ticked and people want to cry about it.

Oh well. I wish I was so poor to cry about a single charm tick.

There was no making assumptions along the lines you did. Did you not follow what actually happened other than spouting about blah blah 20k hp. Anyone can tank, blah blah. You are the one making assumptions outside of what was known. Had the archer wanted to tank he shouldn't have went along with barb tank from the get go. He should have just said he knew he would take aggro and for cleric to heal him...

But keep complaining about your one single charm tick. Any archer worth his salt could have awakened and healed with triple spark too.

I assume somewhat competent barb. Barbs main aggro skill is fleshream, it never misses, arguing like archer took aggro because barb missed is stupid in said light. If barb went herp derp idiot, more of a reason to let archer tank it. I interpreted said premise in way where barb was just way behind archer in gear, likely not rebirthed/smth similar vs N3+10. In such case the barb cant do much to actually hold aggro off such DD.

Clerics job is to keep squad alive, consideration to charms cant be too much to ask. If you are charmticking from AoE with full hp, well then thats really on your gear. But that was not the case here. 9k hp with 500 hits, thats 9-10 hits to tick charm not accounting pots. If cleric is unable to react in such timeframe they simply suck.

As for this being bout 1 charm tick? Its bout the attitude regarding it, not the charm tick itself. I dong give a F if my charm ticks here and there, I expect it to. I dislike charm tanking though, if I am forced to do so with cleric in squad I have no use for such cleric and I may as well remove them. I do think cleric who does more than just heals is more useful than cleric that simply heals but we got plenty of clerics who do neither.

I brought my own gear as example as same logic applies to people with lower gear as long as they are able to tank it safely. In this case they were, arguing like they are fail DD for pulling aggro is plain **** as they were clearly tanky enough to safely tank it and cleric should of just acknowledged archer is tanking it.

I dont announce when I pull aggro as most times when heals even matter worth jacksht is FSP where its hard to determine which +12 pulls the aggro this time. I also usually run with a friend whose gear is so close to mine its really a coin toss which one ends up with aggro and it usually swaps when boss gets to melee range as melee comboing does hurt DPS.

Ps. Using Awaken CD to avoid charm tick is shortsighted even during PvE activities. And as we are clearly talking bout alt it wouldnt really surprise me his archer does not have celestial skills. I half expect it due opening with STA and not BV.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide · December 2014

Here's an update on me, trying to put some of the advice you guys and gals have given me.

http://imgur.com/7gTusk4 Part 1

http://imgur.com/LiZ86aD Part 2

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver · December 2014

[Teal"]Here's an update on me, trying to put some of the advice you guys and gals have given me.

http://imgur.com/7gTusk4 Part 1

http://imgur.com/LiZ86aD Part 2[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Booo!!!! LMAO.

I'd let you tank it...considering that I sometimes run with an archer friend, and she does a better job of tanking instances than a lot of barbs I've known...even when she was G16, she did...

I see your point in posting this though. (It's not really evident with the way I type, but I'm actually cracking up about it...considering that I disagree with a lot of the advice about you not getting heals, or you not tanking.) b:laugh

To be honest, it kind of reminds me of times when I would tank lower leveled bh's, and the lower cleric wouldn't heal me because there was a lower leveled barb in the squad, and said cleric felt that I shouldn't be tanking, but should be healing instead...had that happen a few times actually...and this was before rebirth was even a thing...so I can relate to what you're going through, and as a cleric myself...I know what I personally feel that I should do if a DD is holding aggro, and can survive with heals...

Hope it gets better for you man. Lol.

eraldus · December 2014

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

Here's an update on me, trying to put some of the advice you guys and gals have given me.

http://imgur.com/7gTusk4 Part 1

http://imgur.com/LiZ86aD Part 2

You forgot part 3

http://i.imgur.com/3TWbI6I.jpg

bruinvis · December 2014

From first post:

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh, I was on my Archer not my Barb :P

Archer is rb1 level 97, T3+10 bow and full set of T3+5 armor. Sky Demon's Pearl+4, R8 ring, and Warsong belt +5. Pure dex build with I think it was 9k base or close to it. The cleric never healed during boss fight, I think she did chromatic a couple times on mobs and healed like 2/3 of the 6 in squad.

Let it be clear that the barb attacked the boss first, fine. I already knew the barb wouldn't keep agro, they rarely do anyway.

As soon as the barb attacked I used STA and immedietly took agro. So I sparked, tangling mired and went nuts on the boss. Boss was only doing 200-500 damage per hit, no big deal, seen worse. Still taking hits... Watching cleric cast really slow plume shots at the boss.... 'r u srs?' is what i was thinking

offtopic:

This forumthread reminded me of two of my factionmembers (archer, cleric). The archer did many RB quests for the cleric with the cleric just going AFK. Two things happened: 1 - archer (full moral armor lol) died a few times and didn't get ress-buff or any other buffs we can think off, 2 - cleric (mixed armor R8/TT) left the squad amost directly after quest was done. I personally would have kicked myself out of the squad if that would happen to me. I think the cleric left to another faction, maybe Malice.

ontopic:

I have read all replies, even good ones (people should communicate) but the problem here isn't the cleric alone, even better: it's the archer that made the mistake here. First see what happens when barb attacks and how he attacks. If you also notice a cleric shooting around with plume shots you also know you won't get (many) heals. Then it's really up to the archer: it should support the killing however if an archer knows that he/she will take agro, the archer simply can wait until others are spamming squadchat or pm's.

bloodedone87 · December 2014

Arent you all making such a big case about something that happend in a ****** video game?b:laugh
To me if the cleric wants to heal, he heals, if the cleric doesnt want to heal, so be it. I care less. If I see the cleric doesnt heal ill try and stay alive by my own. If I cant i get up and try again.b:bye

Ibunneh - Raging Tide · December 2014

To all the metal mage clerics out there:

Stormbringers are coming, we are the real metal mages, we come in peace, go back to healing, you are not metal mages anymore... It's okay. LOL

I'm sorry been wanting to get that out since the thread was started.

Keisari - Raging Tide · December 2014

Some days ago Kitty attempted to do a FS run on her APS-barb.

Already at Drake Kitty noticed he liked to use CHB a lot. But 'cause Kitty thought she'd be more useful DDing instead of tanking 'cause squad had some r9rrs, Kitty DD'd that boss.

When squad got to Toad Kitty lured the boss to the corner and started having her aggressionplay with the boss. Soon enough Kitty noticed her charm was ticking(Kitty had been doing FWS before and with Kitty's pullsize charm ish useful). Kitty saw cleric using CHB at times, but she started to wonder if cleric would IH her. 1 min later cleric still kept CHBing so Kitty asked her to IH. Half a min later...still blueish light yet to see. To reinforce her demand Kitty turned the boss around to have DDs on Toad's firing line. Cleric still kept CHBing until squadmates started complaining about dying and telling her to heal the barb. Glad that at least someone had paid attention Kitty turned Toad back from squad. But it still took another 15 secs for first blue light to be seen.

When squad proceeded to Blossom Succubus Kitty noticed the boss taking ridiculously long to die, Kitty was DDing since r9rr+12 wizzie clearly withstood aggro well. To test how much damage ppl were doing Kitty started taking aggro and she found that by throwing FR every now and then was enough to keep aggro. And as cleric was once against standing useless Kitty decided to leave squad after having remnants of her event gold charm killed by lack of heals.

After leaving squad Kitty finally gained even deeper understanding of Lolga's OP. On RT there's many clerics who prefer barb surviving by charm and pots so that they can just look feathery best friend of everyone.

Stop... Sucking...

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