Venos are op

you are absolutely right with everything you said, venos are indeed OP...if this game was still about skill.

it takes 1 full STR barb or deity sin to end this discussion within 3 seconds, tho.

Not really going to discuss the PvP aspect of this, as I'm pretty much a one shot to anything R9 and high refined, but one part of your post that I will say is this:

Venos actually have the lowest damage output of the casters. There was a spreadsheet that I was trying to find, but for casters it goes like this....

Wizard>Psychic>Mystic>Cleric>Veno. (Cleric damage output can vary depending on Ultraviolet Mode, and if they are using Primal Cyclone)

Most venos use Patakas, which have a vast range... so if they hit for spike damage, they can wreck a player when you combine all of their debuffs, and purge. But their natural damage output is the lowest of the casters.

(Not saying whether or not they're OP, just making that corrective statement regarding their offensive power.)

I think when we talk about magic classes and the defining difference between who is OP and who isnt, it is more on the lines of what classes are neglected and what arent anymore.

as for what I have seen changing with each new expansion and gear upgrade:

Clerics:

used to be weak and only good for healing groups as well as keeping catas alive until a sin came in and killed them off.

Now with 100+ and celestial skills as well as g16/rrr9 gear clerics can tank better then some barbs given the right timing of skills and apoth used. Plus they do a butt load of damage with all the debuffs, but the combo is limited to sleeping an individual to get all the debuffs on. So no real group pvp capability against equally geared players.

Mystics:

Prob the most under rated class for magic dd's/support/healers. They take a lot of work imo, like a bm but once you get down the class, you become a MONSTER. They can switch pets out at will, dont need to revive pet before bringing them back out, can do physical and magic damage, can garantee a crit, and can also completely heal off one skill.

Having verdanent shell also gives them an edge of pdef in sage, just like a veno but there damage output is greater with the faster skill spam then other classes.

Wizzards:

Not as dominant as they use to be with the long channeling time and lower serviviability of all magic classes. *imo again* the only thing they have going for them is the damage they can do with combos if done right but usually 9/10 times are a 1 shot for equal geared sins and seekers.

Prob the weakest aa class at the moment and heavily neglected.

Psychics:

Strongest of all aa classes because of voodoos. Can get free jods or deity in a matter of just clicking a button. Add refine, top gear for lvl, and end game shards, plus all the other buffs they have *most buffs of any other class in game*, your looking at a walking tank/dd from hell.

Only real downside is skill usually and if unbuffed they are walking targets but a fully buffed psy *especially end-game one* is unstopable usually.

Venomancers:

As stated before, yes good def in fox form ONLY, good damage but not overly OP. Their bread and butter is purge, amp, and bramble. I would say hood is nice for use on assassins but wasting 2 sparks on a single person can be a waste.

With that being said, I do feel that mystic pets being brought in, the lack of any major changes to veno over the years, they have been neglected by the devs as well as wizzards.


So when they say venos are OP, as a sin mainly, venos are easy to kill, even +12 vit/jods venos. They cant handle the crit damage from me or the gof with how low there def truly is. On the same not, it takes more effort to kill a cleric, mystic, and psy with that same gear setup minus the vit stones of course. This is why i disagree venos are OP, and I do wish they would be reworked to be even better since they have been neglected for LONG time now b:cry

I'm so fluffy, so OP because of that.. nobody can handle me

gakekasai18 wrote: »

So when they say venos are OP, as a sin mainly, venos are easy to kill, even +12 vit/jods venos. They cant handle the crit damage from me or the gof with how low there def truly is. On the same not, it takes more effort to kill a cleric, mystic, and psy with that same gear setup minus the vit stones of course. This is why i disagree venos are OP, and I do wish they would be reworked to be even better since they have been neglected for LONG time now b:cry

You serious? I crit purged veno on my server for 1k with a +12 bow. When I hit most jaded seekers for more, yea, venos are ludicrously tanky at endgame.

The thing which pisses me off bout venos is that their pets are glitching these days. I record most of my NW battles and last night I had continuous 1vs1 I lost in the end when my charm died against a veno with nix. Main reason I lost is because of the pet, that stun spam is ridiculous, and every WoG got purged by veno while during 3min fight I didnt proc purge once which would of ended it there and then. Now why not kill the pet? Because its immunity/cant target skill is glitched. I periodically kept checking the pets buffs and even trying to hit it from time to time as at times buff bars lag. It was up the whole duration of the fight.

Shortly put, you cant kill the pet, it will **** you over and there is nothing you can do bout it outside of full immunities(AD, IG, sutra).

elvenkilleres wrote: »

I'd be happy if they removed demon ironwood proc it's by far the most ridiculous skill in game next to tidal protection.

Because the myriads totally can't do the same. b:chuckle

No, OP, just no.

venos..and OP? i wish b:surrender

elvenkilleres wrote: »

Yes sins are obviously highly op in every inexplicable way. Anyone that says differently is lying.
I have to say that a class that is pretty close to being as op as a sin are venos.

Those fur balls are a menace

Facts:
Monkey King- ridiculously op. I mean this **** is like another player. Tanky, variety of stuns, attacks, and debuffs. A pet should not have a ranged stun...

venos defence- in fox form venos are basically the tankiest casters.

Veno debuffs- ridiculously op debuffs. They already have purge so why do demon venos have a 0def proc? Doesn't matter what your gear is u become a 1shot under 0def.

Either vast chi supply or uncomparable speed. (Sage/demon)

I also don't think people really realize that venos have a very high damage output probably the second highest out of the casters.

Delicious tears b:pleased

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

You serious? I crit purged veno on my server for 1k with a +12 bow. When I hit most jaded seekers for more, yea, venos are ludicrously tanky at endgame. ).

Yes i am serious and on the same server as you. Im sorry your gear isnt that great or stats if you cant do **** to venos over seekers. Especially considering seekers by definition have more pdef then veno. Kind of makes your math a little off imo. GL though with a +12 bow b:chuckle

It's not even about the one shot rolls, it's more about utility, defense, and CC available to the class.

I'm surprised an archer actually tried to fight a veno endgame.

Veno vs Archer = Purge + Chi Drain + Pet Stuns + Armor/Mind Break rolls. If you can't play at all well...just Dark Taboo spam and you probably won't die.

I would actually put venos right up there with sins and barbs in 1v1 power now.

As for whether veno is OP...I would say a lot of classes are catching up in power and utility. BM, barb, and venos have certainly gained a lot of skills Morai -> Primal.

You ppl don't know what you're talking about. Last TW a 3 sparked archer with 80k pattack and 130 atk levels crit a fully buffed endgame BM for 1.8k with metal. Even if considering mdef charm that's all of 3.6k crit on a 40k hp beast. That's endgame tank for you.

As for venos, I'd estimate about 40k-50k pdef endgame in foxform if she's sporting x4 pdef orns and fully buffed, am I wrong? I wouldn't be surprised at all if an endgame veno with maxed Primal buffs, S cards, Jades, the works takes 1k crits from a +12 archer.

Again to the question of whether venos are OP, I'd say considering other high powered classes in 1v1 and group PvP it's just archers that suck really bad.

"1k crits unpossible!" If you had excellent card sets, awesome spirit, and whatever you'd probably just do 2k crits on that veno. Not kidding.

elvenkilleres wrote: »

Yes sins are obviously highly op in every inexplicable way. Anyone that says differently is lying.
I have to say that a class that is pretty close to being as op as a sin are venos.

Those fur balls are a menace

Facts:
Monkey King- ridiculously op. I mean this **** is like another player. Tanky, variety of stuns, attacks, and debuffs. A pet should not have a ranged stun...

venos defence- in fox form venos are basically the tankiest casters.

Veno debuffs- ridiculously op debuffs. They already have purge so why do demon venos have a 0def proc? Doesn't matter what your gear is u become a 1shot under 0def.

Either vast chi supply or uncomparable speed. (Sage/demon)

I also don't think people really realize that venos have a very high damage output probably the second highest out of the casters.

Oh get the hell outta here wtf...

Mystic has a slight advantage against veno 1v1 but it's a very good fight. I'd say mystic is 6-4 against them equally geared.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I`d say venos will be sporting with more p.def comparing to numbers some archers pull w/o fox form. But I did happen run past said veno, she is jades, missing 1 +12 on sky cover and cards are only average. 2 S cards and only p.def A + S spirit maxed. So not complete endgame but meh.

If you are talking about rix, then last time I talked with em, they r a vit build so defiently can squeeze some more defense out of that. If u meant mesi, im not exaxctly sure wht she is, though im leaning toward thinking she is vit as well or atleast a hybrid.