Venos are op

elvenkilleres

Yes sins are obviously highly op in every inexplicable way. Anyone that says differently is lying.
I have to say that a class that is pretty close to being as op as a sin are venos.

Those fur balls are a menace

Facts:
Monkey King- ridiculously op. I mean this **** is like another player. Tanky, variety of stuns, attacks, and debuffs. A pet should not have a ranged stun...

venos defence- in fox form venos are basically the tankiest casters.

Veno debuffs- ridiculously op debuffs. They already have purge so why do demon venos have a 0def proc? Doesn't matter what your gear is u become a 1shot under 0def.

Either vast chi supply or uncomparable speed. (Sage/demon)

I also don't think people really realize that venos have a very high damage output probably the second highest out of the casters.

gakekasai18

ummmm I thought psys had more def with voodoos and att, plus they can change it at will. All you need is a little skill and you have a nasty psy to deal with.b:victory

so i think the idea should be, veno with no skill needed are OP, psy with a wider skill cap even more OPb:shutup

RankNine - Momaganon

you are absolutely right with everything you said, venos are indeed OP...if this game was still about skill.

it takes 1 full STR barb or deity sin to end this discussion within 3 seconds, tho.

morenawolf

We furballs are underrated. b:laugh

Yes, the Monkey is simply the best pvp pet we ever had. It give us a incredible boost of power and allow us to survive against bad melee classes - if we're good players. Give a Monkey to a crappy Veno that don't know how to be a Veno and it won't help that much.

About the tankiest caster I must agree, Sage fox form is a wonderful phys bonus. I think it's what make us the only caster that truly can go heavy and be effective anyway *wears heavy Veno haters shield*

Our debuffs are our real point of strenght, even more than damage. In NW my squad can destroy op rrr9 seeks, barbs and bm thanks to my purge and amp, no matter if I die with a few shots because I'm only a g15 for now. I'm always the first who die when we attack another group of players, not because I have the lower gear in my group, but because they target me and chase me before I can throw my debuff on them. Not many people like support role like ours, but I truly love it. and Bramble Guard is not wonderful like Sould of Vengance, but it hurt lol.

The only reason because we're not considered the best class is that we cannot jump in the crowd and destroy everything like melee classes. Like Sins, Venos are for strategist minds. But I personally don't think we're op... any class can be op with the right gears and the right player behind the screen. It's only a matter to understand your class and your role, both in pve and pvp.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Not really going to discuss the PvP aspect of this, as I'm pretty much a one shot to anything R9 and high refined, but one part of your post that I will say is this:

Venos actually have the lowest damage output of the casters. There was a spreadsheet that I was trying to find, but for casters it goes like this....

Wizard>Psychic>Mystic>Cleric>Veno. (Cleric damage output can vary depending on Ultraviolet Mode, and if they are using Primal Cyclone)

Most venos use Patakas, which have a vast range... so if they hit for spike damage, they can wreck a player when you combine all of their debuffs, and purge. But their natural damage output is the lowest of the casters.

(Not saying whether or not they're OP, just making that corrective statement regarding their offensive power.)

morenawolf

Nah, you're right. I feel so weird when I see my friends Clerics destroy everything while I stay there and watch, lol. We don't need to deal damage after all, in pve we have our pets to tank and assist damage (I farmed one hour in Avalance Mountains with my Imperial Skeleton and payed only 30 coins to repair, trololololololol) and in pvp we only have to debuff and survive.

gakekasai18

I think when we talk about magic classes and the defining difference between who is OP and who isnt, it is more on the lines of what classes are neglected and what arent anymore.

as for what I have seen changing with each new expansion and gear upgrade:

Clerics:

used to be weak and only good for healing groups as well as keeping catas alive until a sin came in and killed them off.

Now with 100+ and celestial skills as well as g16/rrr9 gear clerics can tank better then some barbs given the right timing of skills and apoth used. Plus they do a butt load of damage with all the debuffs, but the combo is limited to sleeping an individual to get all the debuffs on. So no real group pvp capability against equally geared players.

Mystics:

Prob the most under rated class for magic dd's/support/healers. They take a lot of work imo, like a bm but once you get down the class, you become a MONSTER. They can switch pets out at will, dont need to revive pet before bringing them back out, can do physical and magic damage, can garantee a crit, and can also completely heal off one skill.

Having verdanent shell also gives them an edge of pdef in sage, just like a veno but there damage output is greater with the faster skill spam then other classes.

Wizzards:

Not as dominant as they use to be with the long channeling time and lower serviviability of all magic classes. *imo again* the only thing they have going for them is the damage they can do with combos if done right but usually 9/10 times are a 1 shot for equal geared sins and seekers.

Prob the weakest aa class at the moment and heavily neglected.

Psychics:

Strongest of all aa classes because of voodoos. Can get free jods or deity in a matter of just clicking a button. Add refine, top gear for lvl, and end game shards, plus all the other buffs they have *most buffs of any other class in game*, your looking at a walking tank/dd from hell.

Only real downside is skill usually and if unbuffed they are walking targets but a fully buffed psy *especially end-game one* is unstopable usually.

Venomancers:

As stated before, yes good def in fox form ONLY, good damage but not overly OP. Their bread and butter is purge, amp, and bramble. I would say hood is nice for use on assassins but wasting 2 sparks on a single person can be a waste.

With that being said, I do feel that mystic pets being brought in, the lack of any major changes to veno over the years, they have been neglected by the devs as well as wizzards.


So when they say venos are OP, as a sin mainly, venos are easy to kill, even +12 vit/jods venos. They cant handle the crit damage from me or the gof with how low there def truly is. On the same not, it takes more effort to kill a cleric, mystic, and psy with that same gear setup minus the vit stones of course. This is why i disagree venos are OP, and I do wish they would be reworked to be even better since they have been neglected for LONG time now b:cry

morenawolf

gakekasai18 wrote: »

This is why i disagree venos are OP, and I do wish they would be reworked to be even better since they have been neglected for LONG time now b:cry

I don't think we've been neglected. With the new expansion we've got some nice features and bonuses, and all the new evolutions for pets. We're simply not created to be the best fighting class, it's the price of our versatility. We can do everything, but we're not the "best" in anything. A squad can survive without Venos, but we can make any task easier.

But I agree about the neglect of Wizards they deserve more love. And even if they're no more the best in what they do, they're still a pain in the azz when played right. In the last NW one of them is been our nightmare. XD

Desdi - Sanctuary

I'm so fluffy, so OP because of that.. nobody can handle me

meranya

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm so fluffy, so OP because of that.. nobody can handle me

Quoted for truth!

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

gakekasai18 wrote: »

So when they say venos are OP, as a sin mainly, venos are easy to kill, even +12 vit/jods venos. They cant handle the crit damage from me or the gof with how low there def truly is. On the same not, it takes more effort to kill a cleric, mystic, and psy with that same gear setup minus the vit stones of course. This is why i disagree venos are OP, and I do wish they would be reworked to be even better since they have been neglected for LONG time now b:cry

You serious? I crit purged veno on my server for 1k with a +12 bow. When I hit most jaded seekers for more, yea, venos are ludicrously tanky at endgame.

The thing which pisses me off bout venos is that their pets are glitching these days. I record most of my NW battles and last night I had continuous 1vs1 I lost in the end when my charm died against a veno with nix. Main reason I lost is because of the pet, that stun spam is ridiculous, and every WoG got purged by veno while during 3min fight I didnt proc purge once which would of ended it there and then. Now why not kill the pet? Because its immunity/cant target skill is glitched. I periodically kept checking the pets buffs and even trying to hit it from time to time as at times buff bars lag. It was up the whole duration of the fight.

Shortly put, you cant kill the pet, it will **** you over and there is nothing you can do bout it outside of full immunities(AD, IG, sutra).

XXHotXx - Morai

Demon Venos are op

*fixed
for my reroll i considered 2 classes demon veno or sage sin

a 20k base mag damage demon veno, can one hit kill any very endgame geared (except sage sins and barbs on cornered\full vit, vit sharded barbs) with a 0def combo

elvenkilleres

I'd be happy if they removed demon ironwood proc it's by far the most ridiculous skill in game next to tidal protection.

opkossy

Is this 09 again?

truekossy wrote:

It's the PWI General Discussion forum. You can make a thread about cookies and the result will be people talking about how venos are OP.

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think the Devs should implement an Oven in the game and place it in Archosuar and have cookie making ingredients for various types of cookies so we can all have cookies that will give us insane hp, mp and def buffs.... But.. make it so only Veno's can farm the mats for the cookies and all other classes have to kiss our hineys to get them. Just so us OP Veno's can be even more OP. b:laughb:laugh

/Discuss

Xainou - Sanctuary

elvenkilleres wrote: »

I'd be happy if they removed demon ironwood proc it's by far the most ridiculous skill in game next to tidal protection.

Because the myriads totally can't do the same. b:chuckle

No, OP, just no.

DeffyNature - Archosaur

On paper, yes, venos are the most bad *** and over powered, but in actuality gear is what matters.
While monkey is an awesome pvp pet, it's still easy to kill it,, especially via DoT damage.
While foxform increases greatly your survivability, it allows you to debuff, mostly, as even the new primal foxform skills are extremely poor in damage.
Lastly, skill is also a big thing, it's using your skills at the right time, you need to hold onto blazing barrier for the right opportunity or else it goes to waste, stun needs to be timed properly as well etc.

SakuLv - Dreamweaver

venos..and OP? i wish b:surrender

missinin17

Stop trolling Veno are not OP, that demon debuff only has 20% chance to proc and if it does proc just just genie and your safe.

Azura - Lost City

elvenkilleres wrote: »

Yes sins are obviously highly op in every inexplicable way. Anyone that says differently is lying.
I have to say that a class that is pretty close to being as op as a sin are venos.

Those fur balls are a menace

Facts:
Monkey King- ridiculously op. I mean this **** is like another player. Tanky, variety of stuns, attacks, and debuffs. A pet should not have a ranged stun...

venos defence- in fox form venos are basically the tankiest casters.

Veno debuffs- ridiculously op debuffs. They already have purge so why do demon venos have a 0def proc? Doesn't matter what your gear is u become a 1shot under 0def.

Either vast chi supply or uncomparable speed. (Sage/demon)

I also don't think people really realize that venos have a very high damage output probably the second highest out of the casters.

Delicious tears b:pleased

killeresras

Tehehehehe people scared of venos now. I just got monkey yesterday and yes I am in love.
Monkey=much control
Veno=much control
Veno+monkey= battle manipulater

I'm a demon veno g16 and r999 fall to the ground when I gets that 0def proc=much QQ

Purge= forced ad's

Chi burn+demon chi drain+ crush vigor= much hate

Bewitching people from the sky= rain of the QQ chickens

Let it rain puffbirds!

gakekasai18

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

You serious? I crit purged veno on my server for 1k with a +12 bow. When I hit most jaded seekers for more, yea, venos are ludicrously tanky at endgame. ).

Yes i am serious and on the same server as you. Im sorry your gear isnt that great or stats if you cant do **** to venos over seekers. Especially considering seekers by definition have more pdef then veno. Kind of makes your math a little off imo. GL though with a +12 bow b:chuckle

Eoria - Harshlands

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because the myriads totally can't do the same. b:chuckle

Ehh...myraid pdef break isn't 0. Demon ironwood is.

Granted, both hurt if properly AA'd on.

Quilue - Sanctuary

It's not even about the one shot rolls, it's more about utility, defense, and CC available to the class.

I'm surprised an archer actually tried to fight a veno endgame.

Veno vs Archer = Purge + Chi Drain + Pet Stuns + Armor/Mind Break rolls. If you can't play at all well...just Dark Taboo spam and you probably won't die.

I would actually put venos right up there with sins and barbs in 1v1 power now.

As for whether veno is OP...I would say a lot of classes are catching up in power and utility. BM, barb, and venos have certainly gained a lot of skills Morai -> Primal.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

gakekasai18 wrote: »

Yes i am serious and on the same server as you. Im sorry your gear isnt that great or stats if you cant do **** to venos over seekers. Especially considering seekers by definition have more pdef then veno. Kind of makes your math a little off imo. GL though with a +12 bow b:chuckle

I never said my gear was exceptional but +12 bow is +12 bow and I feel I would deserve to hit veno for more than 1k crits. I did no math regarding it outside of comparing damage I deal to different people, take your feelings bout math to game engine as I am not behind the numbers.

No matter how crappy our metal skills are, those still do exist and I believe I hit even lucy and her awakened S cards over 1k crits trough buffs. Trough buffs unlike purged aby and her absurd defenses.

@Quilue I was hitting 1k crits on veno in TW, I full well know fighting her alone would be futile effort.

Quilue - Sanctuary

You ppl don't know what you're talking about. Last TW a 3 sparked archer with 80k pattack and 130 atk levels crit a fully buffed endgame BM for 1.8k with metal. Even if considering mdef charm that's all of 3.6k crit on a 40k hp beast. That's endgame tank for you.

As for venos, I'd estimate about 40k-50k pdef endgame in foxform if she's sporting x4 pdef orns and fully buffed, am I wrong? I wouldn't be surprised at all if an endgame veno with maxed Primal buffs, S cards, Jades, the works takes 1k crits from a +12 archer.

Again to the question of whether venos are OP, I'd say considering other high powered classes in 1v1 and group PvP it's just archers that suck really bad.

"1k crits unpossible!" If you had excellent card sets, awesome spirit, and whatever you'd probably just do 2k crits on that veno. Not kidding.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

gakekasai18 wrote: »

Yes i am serious and on the same server as you. Im sorry your gear isnt that great or stats if you cant do **** to venos over seekers. Especially considering seekers by definition have more pdef then veno. Kind of makes your math a little off imo. GL though with a +12 bow b:chuckle

Spirit can make that difference. If you aren't farming soul/life neumas or doing resource war, lvling soul/life prime cards, you are gonna be feeling that crunch.


ETA: Every class is OP except mine!

Jadsia - Lost City

elvenkilleres wrote: »

Yes sins are obviously highly op in every inexplicable way. Anyone that says differently is lying.
I have to say that a class that is pretty close to being as op as a sin are venos.

Those fur balls are a menace

Facts:
Monkey King- ridiculously op. I mean this **** is like another player. Tanky, variety of stuns, attacks, and debuffs. A pet should not have a ranged stun...

venos defence- in fox form venos are basically the tankiest casters.

Veno debuffs- ridiculously op debuffs. They already have purge so why do demon venos have a 0def proc? Doesn't matter what your gear is u become a 1shot under 0def.

Either vast chi supply or uncomparable speed. (Sage/demon)

I also don't think people really realize that venos have a very high damage output probably the second highest out of the casters.

Oh get the hell outta here wtf...

Joe - Morai

Yes. Venos are indeed strongest Caster class. At least in 1on1s. In mass pvp it breaks down to purge and now malefic crush is a nice addition as well, same goes for a smart used nova.

Just saying. While fighting trully endgame then a veno will most likely kill anything that does not have AD/Faith ready especially if it's a demon veno. Then again, this would require smart and defensive gameplay to get people in such situations and then need to be performed properly for your enemy to have no chance of escape.

Same thing could be saif about any other class. Skill is the key and knowing your class and what your enemy can do. Lets just say that if a demon veno with more then 2 sparks gets to you unprepared and that certain vrno happens to be a bit skilled then you're dead.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Mystic has a slight advantage against veno 1v1 but it's a very good fight. I'd say mystic is 6-4 against them equally geared.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You ppl don't know what you're talking about. Last TW a 3 sparked archer with 80k pattack and 130 atk levels crit a fully buffed endgame BM for 1.8k with metal. Even if considering mdef charm that's all of 3.6k crit on a 40k hp beast. That's endgame tank for you.

As for venos, I'd estimate about 40k-50k pdef endgame in foxform if she's sporting x4 pdef orns and fully buffed, am I wrong? I wouldn't be surprised at all if an endgame veno with maxed Primal buffs, S cards, Jades, the works takes 1k crits from a +12 archer.

Again to the question of whether venos are OP, I'd say considering other high powered classes in 1v1 and group PvP it's just archers that suck really bad.

"1k crits unpossible!" If you had excellent card sets, awesome spirit, and whatever you'd probably just do 2k crits on that veno. Not kidding.

I`d say venos will be sporting with more p.def comparing to numbers some archers pull w/o fox form. But I did happen run past said veno, she is jades, missing 1 +12 on sky cover and cards are only average. 2 S cards and only p.def A + S spirit maxed. So not complete endgame but meh.

CANUS_MAJOR - Archosaur

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I`d say venos will be sporting with more p.def comparing to numbers some archers pull w/o fox form. But I did happen run past said veno, she is jades, missing 1 +12 on sky cover and cards are only average. 2 S cards and only p.def A + S spirit maxed. So not complete endgame but meh.

If you are talking about rix, then last time I talked with em, they r a vit build so defiently can squeeze some more defense out of that. If u meant mesi, im not exaxctly sure wht she is, though im leaning toward thinking she is vit as well or atleast a hybrid.