Time for some new Blood?

search long and hard? when the answer is literally twice on the first page? or 7/8 of the first google search results?

theres obscure sht, and then theres stuff you literally have to try not to stumble upon the answer

> Adding your insults and snide comments doesn't do anyone any service

actually it does, slap a person enough and theyll wake up and some will change, proof is in one of the threads you are referring to.

>There are too many narcissistic, self involved people who take up far too much space posting
>I think it's time, perhaps, they removed the word kindness from the dictionaries

yup, youre good example there

I have another quote for you:

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"

Better stay silent than insult someone, it also saves you time.

If they got no answers they must find out for themselves anyway lol

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

The flip side is many people won't listen to valid criticism even when there is no insult. They will take offense to even the hint they may be wrong, and attack you when you only provide evidence your advice is true. I've had that happen way too many times in the first two years alone of the game.

And the flip side for the OP, is why are we assuming these lazy people are the epitome of kindness and helplessness? I've seen the very rude people you talk about post dumb questions themselves, or ask about them in game. Those are the ones that are the most fun to insult, since they are the ones who usually get the most worked up about it as well. It does make you wonder what is wrong with them in real life, when they don't even realize what a hypocrite they are being in those instances.

And at that point, I just hope their pride is offended enough that they won't have anything to do with me. Saves time, in the likely case I forget how horrible a person they are when I take a hiatus and come back. It's like tasking jerks to remind you when you forget, that they are jerks. So in that regard, insults are a very useful tool for a more enjoyable gaming experience.

Regardless, it really has no place on the forums. But yeah, I understand that too is easier said than done. Goodness knows I've lost my cool with people a few times.

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh definitely for sure, the same with what Desdi Said above about putting her guide together. Doing that kind of work for the community is a labor of love, takes countless hours of personal time and really never receives the respect it truly warrants. So let me take this moment to thank both of you for that and countless other things done for the community for no pay, no reward, no compensation other then the personal satisfaction gained from a job well done.

b:cute Thank you.

kudos to you for trying to be what is in this song here.

I too have noticed the shortness of several posters as of late, I could have and should have spoke up more about it, but yea i'm tired and wary of arguing for something that will likely never come.

I realize that may sound like a silly/poor excuse, but I am all tuckered out, there is only so much arguing one can do, be it a 'selfish'/noble or even a petty argument... regardless of what it is, stand alone too many times and your bound to throw in the towel, as those who disagree with you are far more willing to step up and say so, then someone who is willing to stand behind the 'weak'/one who are alone. (who may also very well be more 'right' than those numerous ppl who are willing to argue endlessly.)

It takes an immensely strong person to stand up for the 'weak'/ones who are alone, and it takes truly awesome/unfathomably strong person to continue to stand up for the 'weak'/ones who are alone.

It would no doubt be real nice if those who are willing to stand behind someone would be more willing to come to the aid of the 'weak'/one who is more or less alone, and reiterate their point/stance, sometimes the way someone else words something that they also feel is 'wrong' gets through someone who is being 'thick-headed'... regardless of the argument.

---

Edit: Kindness is still out there, its just real hard to find, as those who have been willing to make a stand get overwhelmed/exhausted far too easily, especially when they start to realize/begin to really think they're alone in it.

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Where, at all, did I refer to ANY thread? I'm sorry you got so Butt-Hurt over this topic Mosz but you're not making yourself look any more intelligent.

nice aggressiveness there, you talk about kindness lol hypocrite
butt-hurt...you use this word..learn to use it properly
its very obvious this topic refers to the at least 2 topics in general discussion on the first page, but sure play dumb just so you have an excuse to insult people you dont like

I applaud the sentiment in the OP. It's absolutely true that this community - both in game in World Chat, and in these forums, is in need of a wake-up call to what constitutes the manners and the compassion that actually form an effective gaming community and a positive experience for gamers. There is improvement that can be made, although you could say that even in the most positive of communities.

Someone once said, "There are no stupid questions - only stupid answers". While I may not venture to take the argument quite that far, it does bring up an important point, that being derisive if not a smart response to a question.

There is no one who has deep knowledge on all subjects. If you're not a rare genius like Stephen Hawking, you probably are ignorant about something, whether it's a particular book of literature, a famous film most of the Western world has seen, or how to min-max your character in Perfect World. I also think that a hallmark of geniuses tends to be their admittance of things that they do not yet know and have not yet researched - do we talk to Stephen Hawking about ancient history, or do we read a book by a historian? The fact that you can write an essay about any subject, or even on many different subjects, does not make you above or superior by definition to people who may not know the answer to their question, but probably know more than you about other subjects.

Not knowing a certain thing, and asking a question about it, does not make you stupid, or even lazy. In fact, it's sometimes the most efficient way to solve a problem, even if the knowledge is accessible somewhere.

Some take pride in "slapping" people out of what they perceive as their targets' ignorance. There are many who use this approach, but I don't think they've put much thought into it if they truly believe what they say. How can your words "slap" anyone out of their "ignorance" if the words are not true, if they make leaps of logic and assumptions about that person's intelligence, personal dignity, or ability with the search bar?

I would like to say this to those who follow that philosophy. Consider perhaps if the target of your disgust and derision asked the question because they were seeking a different, or more current, audience, or more specific individuals (perhaps on their server, or from factions other than their own) than would be reached by that search bar, or because they wanted to ask further questions on the same subject from someone who responds in real time, or in the in-depth benefits of a forum format.

Asking that initial question may be simply a lead-in to an entire discussion of which you are not aware. So who is actually doing something silly in this case? The person who asked a question, or the person who makes a vast list of assumptions about that person from the fact that they asked a question?

I daresay the community may need to take a good, deep look at themselves and why they are really behaving in a rude manner, before they respond to that. Asking a question isn't an act of ignorance, it is a seeking of knowledge, and I firmly agree that such seeking should be treated with dignity.

Like I tell members of my faction...

google it (if I am busy), or I will say brb let me google it.

Its what I do and 99 times out of 100 its right there, and most of the time when I do answer their questions, how did I know the answer? As I said above, I googled it, if I don't know the answer off the top of my head.

But, I also tell everyone there are no stupid questions, as normally someone on knows the answer.

OPKossy wrote: »

From what I see, asking the question itself isn't what gets people ripped into most times. It's asking the question that's literally answered right there in multiple sections where they had to practically ignore everything else to not see an answer immediately that has people get more offensive. Especially so when the question asked is answered in the first page of a local stickied thread and someone decides to make a brand new topic instead. In those cases, it basically becomes a sort of, "If you don't want to put even the slightest effort into helping yourself why should we help you," attitude that we'll see around here. This is doubly so the case for those who attack people that answer their questions still, even if the answer isn't in the most friendly manner as a result of the lack of effort shown.

On the flip side, those who do take the time to search for something and either post in the relevant threads, or refer to answers that they found that didn't help them are usually treated with far more kindness and respect. Especially when they're willing to be decent in turn to those answering them or don't try to insist upon flaming people who answer them, as some members get a quick reputation for doing.


Essentially, it's the difference between three types of threads.
One like this where the OP asks a question in a decent manner after showing they've put forth some effort on their own and gets (mostly) civilized responses as a result.

A thread like this where the OP starts off with what seems to be a normal question (only a hint of attitude near the end that's easily overlooked) and it quickly devolves from there as the attitude involved quickly causes others to not want to deal with the person reasonably anymore as they're showing far less than reason and respect themselves and is treated in kind.

And, finally, a thread like... say... the times where we have people asking during maint with a stickied thread up hours in advance about why the servers are down, if it's just them, and so on and so forth. (I'd have linked a third thread related to endgame type things but there wasn't a good one I could use between pages 15 and 20 of General Discussion and I was being too lazy to search.)



The three types of threads will get vastly different responses even if they're about similar things merely based on how the OP presents themselves. Even the nicer members of the community tend to prefer people show some kindness, decency, or effort of their own to be given the most patient and thought-out responses. Those who don't show as much in the first place tend to be given shorter responses or just linked to the relevant information... and this is from our nicest members who try their best to be kind and patient with everyone. So it only goes downhill from there when we get to the less nice people.

I wanted to add my 2 cents here as well, but you already nailed it. +1 to it all.

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I responded in kind to the way you addressed me. I think if you read the rest of my responses, they are similarly responded to in kind. If this time of communication is offensive to you then perhaps you should take a long hard look at what you are posting. I've found only the guilty get truly upset.

Looks to me like you stoop as low as the exact people you're trying to adress in the OP, making you no better than any of them and just as guilty. Kinda hypocritical when you were trying in the OP to make these forums a better place. Lead by example if you want to make a change.

Only the guilty get upset? Confront any unjustified person and ask if they aren't upset. Getting upset has nothing to do with right or wrong, all has to do with whether you accept something or not.

Not answering already happens on a fairly regular basis and still doesn't actually change the fact of the matter about these types of people and threads that would get less than pleasant responses.

Heck, even when the mods go and merge topics into where they should be in the first place or redirect people to where they can get information, and so on and so forth in a nice and polite manner, what happens? Often times these same people who were treated nicely by the mods (and would not have been give a nice treatment by those this thread is concerned about) just come right back complaining about having their posts "removed" or how the mod was "useless" and so on and so forth. And the mods aren't always around. A good deal of people aren't going to just ignore someone spam bumping their thread every 5 minutes complaining about how they aren't getting answers even though there are threads around that answer their question and the responses to the person who does that sort of thing will not usually be anything near nice in the time between people rightfully being annoyed by it and when one of the mods gets a chance to check in and deal with the thread.

What of a thread like this where the reply is actually helpful and accurate.. but likely wouldn't be seen as nice by many people? One need not be kind at all to still be helpful, and while our community isn't very kind to the people that don't put forth any effort towards helping themselves... you'll almost always have the answer given to those people anyways even if, as I mentioned, it's not given in the nicest manner. Like I said, there can be three different threads asking the same thing and the way people, or even the same person for that matter, will respond to them here will be vastly different based on how the OP presents themselves. Could we afford to act nicer, certainly. Could the people we're responding to also afford to put forth some modicum of effort? Definitely.

Remember, even you yourself are guilty of this, Red. Many of your responses can be seen as of the "rude" variety and someone skimming this can easily tell you to take your own advice and then quote your past posts as evidence for it. I know I certainly have my fair share of posts where I'm the "Evil Power-Abusing Horrible Insulting Flaming Trolling Mod that always lies and should be fired because nobody knows how someone as obviously lacking in intelligence as me could have ever become a mod!™" and I do, in fact, often choose to not post in topics where I know for a fact I have nothing good to say at all. The people who aren't mods? They have no obligation to hold themselves back as such.







tl;dr: Telling people not to post isn't going to change every part of what causes this and simply serves to make you look hypocritical when people can easily go through your posts and use what you're saying here against you.



Also, I should totally get "Evil Power-Abusing Horrible Insulting Flaming Trolling Mod that always lies and should be fired because nobody knows how someone as obviously lacking in intelligence as me could have ever become a mod!™" as my title. Including the trademark. b:laugh

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There's a simple solution to that.

Don't Respond.

If you're a Mod (who's job, as I understand the title, is to moderate the forums) then perhaps you could point to the relevant thread / answer within the thread and be helpful, thus ending the usual long thread of insults and abuse every damn one of these threads devolves into.

If you're *not* a mod, then either decide to 1) help or 2) stay out.

It's a tough problem, I know.

\no it isn't
\\but some people just use these forums as a way to slap people they don't even know for the sheer thrill of it
\\\it's honestly not worth it. Go outside when you get frothed up like that. Breathe some real air.


.

You would be amazed at the number of threads I choose to not respond to because I don't have a civil response. b:chuckle

For those of us that frequent the forums, it is especially annoying to have common and knowledgeable threads bumped down just because some idiot is too lazy to look before they post.

Common sense should tell you to look for an answer to your questions before you go asking around. Personally, if I were a mod, I'd just move the OP's post into the relevant discussion and then delete the other responses.
Problem with that though, if the OP is too stupid/lazy to see what was already in front of them, they aren't likely going to be able to find their post, or the responses anymore.

Sometimes giving a link is much faster than ending up in a debate about how the OP is stupid/lazy/etc. I'm not saying these are bad people, they might just be frustrated.
People are generally less likely to accept criticism that was given in a rude manner... a lot of people already have a hard time accepting criticism when it's polite!
Just tell them to search, google it, check the page etc.

I've done this myself, I've lost my cool a few times, I've been a little rude (or very rude, depends on how people take it) but if we keep jumping on people's throats like that people will just decide not to post anything on the forums, some that might even have genuine questions they were unable to find answers for but are disheartened to post.

I understand very well how it is when someone makes a thread about something that's literally..a scroll down to find a thread with the exact answer/question/information.. I know that very well because of all the people that never bothered to take some time to look at my guides after all the time/effort I put into them. If someone can't be bothered to help themselves, why should you?


In short - I just think some of the flaming/bitterness/rudeness is unnecessary but I see how it can be frustrating and why people end up doing it. That doesn't make it okay though (from neither side).

But if the OP that asks the question themselves end up being the rude ones after receiving answers/help... I'm not gonna bother being nice either!

I agree its a lot of Trash littering the forums and the game itself. All ready to Gang up on one person and just like that, One trash after another Joins in, And that person who ask'ed the question is considered to be a fictional troll character if they don't fold to the relentless assault from the trash. i Know this because it's happen to me before, and i recently see it happening to other users as well, It's basically, One piece of Trash says something and then, If the person who asked the question Dont agree with the piece of trash, Their outcasted as a fictional Troll character. I knew the online users would be Weird, But this is just insane. To the wise , wrongfully assaulted user i say, Dont let it get you down. The Trash that is.