Time for some new Blood?

TechDawg - Sanctuary

Ok, I know I do not post often, hardly at all, honestly, but I troll these forums frequently and I've been playing PWI since 2009. However, more and more I am seeing people quick to jump down the throats of someone who asks a question, rather then taking a second to just answer it. WHO THE BLEEP CARES if it's been answered. There are too many narcissistic, self involved people who take up far too much space posting how wrong it was to ask a given question, then it would take to simply answer it and move on.

Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone searched long and hard for the answer before, omg, having the gall to post something here. I'm nearly 45 years old, a college graduate, successful, Married, with 4 kids, and I consider myself to be AT LEAST of average intelligence, and there are times when searching the forums produces nothing remotely close to what it was I was trying to find out. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be for those (and there are plenty) that search when English is not their first language.

All I'm saying is, it's time to get over yourselves and maybe start just answering a question in a few simple lines, or giving someone a link to a thread you know exists. Adding your insults and snide comments doesn't do anyone any service, and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent like you seem to think it does. Taking 4-8 posts to argue how stupid it was for someone to ask a redundant question? Far more idiotic then just answering or redirecting.

*sigh* I think it's time, perhaps, they removed the word kindness from the dictionaries, as it doesn't really seem to exist anymore.

- TD

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"You cannot choose what LIFE will THROW at you! You can, however, choose what to THROW BACK!" - ME

Mosz - Heavens Tear

search long and hard? when the answer is literally twice on the first page? or 7/8 of the first google search results?

theres obscure sht, and then theres stuff you literally have to try not to stumble upon the answer

> Adding your insults and snide comments doesn't do anyone any service

actually it does, slap a person enough and theyll wake up and some will change, proof is in one of the threads you are referring to.

>There are too many narcissistic, self involved people who take up far too much space posting
>I think it's time, perhaps, they removed the word kindness from the dictionaries

yup, youre good example there

Desdi - Sanctuary

I have to admit that sometimes I might give off the vibe of being rude when answering such questions but that's usually when someone asks things about something that I've taken the time to put into a guide or an informative post and the access to said guide/post is easy... it's just rather frustrating when you spend time to write informative guides/things and people don't bother spending a few moments to look it up.

It happened a lot during the pet evolution changes with people making new threads asking questions, some of which where in General Discussion instead of the Venomancer forum (which is the place to go for Venomancer questions) all while I had a guide up and running stickied at the top of the Veno-forum page b:surrender


Other than that though I do think people have gotten a little too rude/bitter lately when people come to ask questions. Other players probably see this and avoid asking questions on the forums. However, it is a little ridiculous when the answer is on the first page... scrolling down would have saved the time of making a new thread b:shocked

Fryvorg - Sanctuary

I have another quote for you:

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"

Better stay silent than insult someone, it also saves you time.

If they got no answers they must find out for themselves anyway lol

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok, I know I do not post often, hardly at all, honestly, but I troll these forums frequently and I've been playing PWI since 2009. However, more and more I am seeing people quick to jump down the throats of someone who asks a question, rather then taking a second to just answer it. WHO THE BLEEP CARES if it's been answered. There are too many narcissistic, self involved people who take up far too much space posting how wrong it was to ask a given question, then it would take to simply answer it and move on.

Really, OP? The only "throats" I "jump down" are 'tards who don't read the first couple pages before making a thread about what's already being discussed.

Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone searched long and hard for the answer before, omg, having the gall to post something here. *snip* and there are times when searching the forums produces nothing remotely close to what it was I was trying to find out. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be for those (and there are plenty) that search when English is not their first language.

Sometimes answers are pretty difficult to find. Sometimes they're buried so deep that your average poster wont be able to find it. That's understandable, there's a crapton of old threads and rubbish burying such things. More often than not though? Threads are made discussing topics that can be found within the first 3 pages o GD or the respective subforum. The former isn't a big deal but the latter's just absolutely silly considering the time taken to ask could have been a quick scroll and click away for a direct answer+discussion.

All I'm saying is, it's time to get over yourselves and maybe start just answering a question in a few simple lines, or giving someone a link to a thread you know exists. Adding your insults and snide comments doesn't do anyone any service, and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent like you seem to think it does. Taking 4-8 posts to argue how stupid it was for someone to ask a redundant question? Far more idiotic then just answering or redirecting.

All I'm saying is that people should take a moment to actually read through a few pages to see if something's been discussed recently/searching a little before making a thread about it. How often do you see 3~5 threads being made for something as simple as a server crash when a topic's already existing about that occurrence? Its the same principle to the "Is there an expansion/PW2 is a different game?" threads. All that does is add more clutter that serves to bury actual discussion till a mod moves/closes it anyway.

TechDawg - Sanctuary

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have to admit that sometimes I might give off the vibe of being rude when answering such questions but that's usually when someone asks things about something that I've taken the time to put into a guide or an informative post and the access to said guide/post is easy... it's just rather frustrating when you spend time to write informative guides/things and people don't bother spending a few moments to look it up.

It happened a lot during the pet evolution changes with people making new threads asking questions, some of which where in General Discussion instead of the Venomancer forum (which is the place to go for Venomancer questions) all while I had a guide up and running stickied at the top of the Veno-forum page b:surrender


Other than that though I do think people have gotten a little too rude/bitter lately when people come to ask questions. Other players probably see this and avoid asking questions on the forums. However, it is a little ridiculous when the answer is on the first page... scrolling down would have saved the time of making a new thread b:shocked

Des, thank you, I appreciate your comments immensely. Sure, every situation is different, and there are exceptions to every rule, but I just want you to know I appreciate your being able to see through to more of the heart of what I was trying to say.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really, OP? The only . . .

Ok, so first off, I have to chuckle. I knew I would strike a chord with a few, saying these things, but I think my point has been proven, in the lengthy responses, trying to defend yourselves.

Of course I would love to see things work just as they are supposed to, but how hard is it, REALLY, to just be nice? More often then not, there is more effort put into pointing out how ignorant the poster must be, when a simple response or re-direct would have sufficed.

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

> Adding your insults and snide comments doesn't do anyone any service

actually it does, slap a person enough and theyll wake up and some will change, proof is in one of the threads you are referring to.

>There are too many narcissistic, self involved people who take up far too much space posting
>I think it's time, perhaps, they removed the word kindness from the dictionaries

yup, youre good example there

Where, at all, did I refer to ANY thread? I'm sorry you got so Butt-Hurt over this topic Mosz but you're not making yourself look any more intelligent.

ovenusarmanio

I get that's it's frustrating but all the flaming is against the rules and people really ought not to be doing it.

But I can understand the frustration a bit, as when I wrote the ini editing guide there was still a ton of questions being answered that were already in the guide such as "how do you put male hair on female characters?" That particular question still annoys me. It's like I sunk hours into that thing, but you're telling me that taking 20 seconds out of your time to glance at it was too much work for you? Like you have such a busy life that you're just gonna pretend that other people haven't put in a lot of time and effort for you? That's nonsense and rude.

Still though, the flames are completely and totally unnecessary. And shaming rarely works as a mechanism to deliver effective criticism anyway. A lot of people will not listen to even valid criticism if it's given with an insult. Most times, the poster just doesn't bother to come back. OFC there are exceptions to every rule, but honestly it's against the rules anyway. The most consistent thing you're doing when you do that is making more work for the mods.

TechDawg - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

But I can understand the frustration a bit, as when I wrote the ini editing guide there was still a ton of questions being answered that were already in the guide such as "how do you put male hair on female characters?" That particular question still annoys me. It's like I sunk hours into that thing, but you're telling me that taking 20 seconds out of your time to glance at it was too much work for you? Like you have such a busy life that you're just gonna pretend that other people haven't put in a lot of time and effort for you? That's nonsense and rude.

Oh definitely for sure, the same with what Desdi Said above about putting her guide together. Doing that kind of work for the community is a labor of love, takes countless hours of personal time and really never receives the respect it truly warrants. So let me take this moment to thank both of you for that and countless other things done for the community for no pay, no reward, no compensation other then the personal satisfaction gained from a job well done.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

A lot of people will not listen to even valid criticism if it's given with an insult.

The flip side is many people won't listen to valid criticism even when there is no insult. They will take offense to even the hint they may be wrong, and attack you when you only provide evidence your advice is true. I've had that happen way too many times in the first two years alone of the game.

And the flip side for the OP, is why are we assuming these lazy people are the epitome of kindness and helplessness? I've seen the very rude people you talk about post dumb questions themselves, or ask about them in game. Those are the ones that are the most fun to insult, since they are the ones who usually get the most worked up about it as well. It does make you wonder what is wrong with them in real life, when they don't even realize what a hypocrite they are being in those instances.

And at that point, I just hope their pride is offended enough that they won't have anything to do with me. Saves time, in the likely case I forget how horrible a person they are when I take a hiatus and come back. It's like tasking jerks to remind you when you forget, that they are jerks. So in that regard, insults are a very useful tool for a more enjoyable gaming experience.

ovenusarmanio

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

The flip side is many people won't listen to valid criticism even when there is no insult. They will take offense to even the hint they may be wrong, and attack you when you only provide evidence your advice is true. I've had that happen way too many times in the first two years alone of the game.

And the flip side for the OP, is why are we assuming these lazy people are the epitome of kindness and helplessness? I've seen the very rude people you talk about post dumb questions themselves, or ask about them in game. Those are the ones that are the most fun to insult, since they are the ones who usually get the most worked up about it as well. It does make you wonder what is wrong with them in real life, when they don't even realize what a hypocrite they are being in those instances.

And at that point, I just hope their pride is offended enough that they won't have anything to do with me. Saves time, in the likely case I forget how horrible a person they are when I take a hiatus and come back. It's like tasking jerks to remind you when you forget, that they are jerks. So in that regard, insults are a very useful tool for a more enjoyable gaming experience.

Regardless, it really has no place on the forums. But yeah, I understand that too is easier said than done. Goodness knows I've lost my cool with people a few times.

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh definitely for sure, the same with what Desdi Said above about putting her guide together. Doing that kind of work for the community is a labor of love, takes countless hours of personal time and really never receives the respect it truly warrants. So let me take this moment to thank both of you for that and countless other things done for the community for no pay, no reward, no compensation other then the personal satisfaction gained from a job well done.

b:cute Thank you.

meranya

Goes to show everyone is a real breathing person behind the keyboard, because just like in real life we get people who will do what you described to someone merely inquiring.

"Go to the library" or "didn't you go to school, how could you not know that?" and such.

There is a strong tendency among some to come very close to a degree of cyber-bullying and all that, which while bad in itself and reflecting bad on our community also goes to show us the people we should be avoiding, in some way. It does make you ask yourself questions if x, y and z are people you should have near.

On the other hand, yes, there are those that blatantly ignore the guides right under their noses which are in most cases not only on the first page, but also stickied. Makes you wonder how many of them are even serious with their post... But, oh well.

I don't think however kindness should be removed from our life. All the atrocities that happen everyday throughout the world would also warrant that but then, why? Why be bereft of this gesture of compassion and love because of the fact there will always be a darker side?
Kindness takes a deal of bravery and vulnerability. It's not something everyone is willing to, or always willing to. But it will always be there. Smothered as it is by all the negative stuff going around - because it is human nature to focus on the worst, too - underappreciated and overlooked, but certainly not gone or asking to be removed.

We'll be fine, as long as there will still be people left around trying to make a difference, and people willing to take the time and see, listen.
And take notice of all the amazing things fellow community members have provided, for which no written gratitude will ever be enough. We should honor their knowledge by heeding it and taking it forward.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

kudos to you for trying to be what is in this song here.

I too have noticed the shortness of several posters as of late, I could have and should have spoke up more about it, but yea i'm tired and wary of arguing for something that will likely never come.

I realize that may sound like a silly/poor excuse, but I am all tuckered out, there is only so much arguing one can do, be it a 'selfish'/noble or even a petty argument... regardless of what it is, stand alone too many times and your bound to throw in the towel, as those who disagree with you are far more willing to step up and say so, then someone who is willing to stand behind the 'weak'/one who are alone. (who may also very well be more 'right' than those numerous ppl who are willing to argue endlessly.)

It takes an immensely strong person to stand up for the 'weak'/ones who are alone, and it takes truly awesome/unfathomably strong person to continue to stand up for the 'weak'/ones who are alone.

It would no doubt be real nice if those who are willing to stand behind someone would be more willing to come to the aid of the 'weak'/one who is more or less alone, and reiterate their point/stance, sometimes the way someone else words something that they also feel is 'wrong' gets through someone who is being 'thick-headed'... regardless of the argument.

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Edit: Kindness is still out there, its just real hard to find, as those who have been willing to make a stand get overwhelmed/exhausted far too easily, especially when they start to realize/begin to really think they're alone in it.

TechDawg - Sanctuary

meranya wrote: »

Goes to show everyone is a real breathing person behind the keyboard, because just like in real life we get people who will do what you described to someone merely inquiring. . .

. . . We'll be fine, as long as there will still be people left around trying to make a difference, and people willing to take the time and see, listen.
And take notice of all the amazing things fellow community members have provided, for which no written gratitude will ever be enough. We should honor their knowledge by heeding it and taking it forward.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

kudos to you for trying to be what is in this song here.

I too have noticed the shortness of several posters as of . . .
. . . especially when they start to realize/begin to really think they're alone in it.

Thank you, to both of you, and I agree Mara, Kindness shouldn't truly be removed, I was just a bit more irritated then usual and trying to be, probably, a bit more dramatic then necessary. It's encouraging to see there are, in fact, people out there seeing the same thing I have been seeing, and on top of that, agreeing that it's just not right.

Thanks for being willing to speak your mind.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Where, at all, did I refer to ANY thread? I'm sorry you got so Butt-Hurt over this topic Mosz but you're not making yourself look any more intelligent.

nice aggressiveness there, you talk about kindness lol hypocrite
butt-hurt...you use this word..learn to use it properly
its very obvious this topic refers to the at least 2 topics in general discussion on the first page, but sure play dumb just so you have an excuse to insult people you dont like

Jadsia - Lost City

OP....I'll ask you a question. Would you squad with a person who posts a question on the forum which is clearly answered in the topics of at least 3 separate active threads on the 1st page of the forum? If this person can't take the time or effort to at least read through some of the threads right in front of their face when they open the general discussion forum to address a question lurking in the deep dark crevices of their minds can we wonder what kind of effort they actually made into learning their character or the game itself? Because I swear this is the kind of blatant ignorance fueled by laziness which causes a lot of issues and bad feelings in the game. I've seen a lot of it in squads and in world chat rants and flames over the years.

Granted we are encouraged to create new threads if a question arises which has been answered in a older thread because time and techniques and other things can change but for the love of god and all things holy to ask a question which is answered in at least 3 active threads on page one of the forum is outrageous.

TechDawg - Sanctuary

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

nice aggressiveness there, you talk about kindness lol hypocrite
butt-hurt...you use this word..learn to use it properly
its very obvious this topic refers to the at least 2 topics in general discussion on the first page, but sure play dumb just so you have an excuse to insult people you dont like

I responded in kind to the way you addressed me. I think if you read the rest of my responses, they are similarly responded to in kind. If this time of communication is offensive to you then perhaps you should take a long hard look at what you are posting. I've found only the guilty get truly upset.

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

OP....I'll ask you a question. Would you squad with a person who posts a question on the forum which is clearly answered in the topics of at least 3 separate active threads on the 1st page of the forum? If this person can't take the time or effort to at least read through some of the threads right in front of their face when they open the general discussion forum to address a question lurking in the deep dark crevices of their minds can we wonder what kind of effort they actually made into learning their character or the game itself? Because I swear this is the kind of blatant ignorance fueled by laziness which causes a lot of issues and bad feelings in the game. I've seen a lot of it in squads and in world chat rants and flames over the years.

Granted we are encouraged to create new threads if a question arises which has been answered in a older thread because time and techniques and other things can change but for the love of god and all things holy to ask a question which is answered in at least 3 active threads on page one of the forum is outrageous.

You raise some good points. To answer your initial question, I don't know, as it's not often that that exact situation is presented, if ever. My point, all along, has never been that it's ok to be lazy or not make an effort to find an answer to a question before creating a new post, that's not it at all. I agree, with (I think) everyone, to at least that extent. My focus, however, is on how these situations are handled. Contrary to what Mosz said here:

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sactually it does, slap a person enough and theyll wake up and some will change, proof is in one of the threads you are referring to.

I DON'T agree that ripping into someone teaches them and encourages them to do things better. My Goal in even starting this topic was to address the situations where a person was jumped on for asking a question, insulted and made to look like a fool. It may be they ARE a fool, but I honestly don't feel it's any one of our places to publicly chastise anyone.

And, again, I state emphatically to Mosz, there was/were NO specific threads I am, was, or were referring to. My sentiments come from reading these forums over the last 5 years, so if I were to site all the threads I may have seen evidence of this, I myself would be guilty of necro.

I had NO specific person in mind, no specific thread in mind, however if you want to continue to provide evidence to support my claim, Mosz, I have no issues with calling you out on it.

mikudra

Its Just like the WC; People with coins spams a lot of stupid things the whole day./ Active people in the forum feels right to say stupid things all threads.

Sylvaliana - Heavens Tear

I applaud the sentiment in the OP. It's absolutely true that this community - both in game in World Chat, and in these forums, is in need of a wake-up call to what constitutes the manners and the compassion that actually form an effective gaming community and a positive experience for gamers. There is improvement that can be made, although you could say that even in the most positive of communities.

Someone once said, "There are no stupid questions - only stupid answers". While I may not venture to take the argument quite that far, it does bring up an important point, that being derisive if not a smart response to a question.

There is no one who has deep knowledge on all subjects. If you're not a rare genius like Stephen Hawking, you probably are ignorant about something, whether it's a particular book of literature, a famous film most of the Western world has seen, or how to min-max your character in Perfect World. I also think that a hallmark of geniuses tends to be their admittance of things that they do not yet know and have not yet researched - do we talk to Stephen Hawking about ancient history, or do we read a book by a historian? The fact that you can write an essay about any subject, or even on many different subjects, does not make you above or superior by definition to people who may not know the answer to their question, but probably know more than you about other subjects.

Not knowing a certain thing, and asking a question about it, does not make you stupid, or even lazy. In fact, it's sometimes the most efficient way to solve a problem, even if the knowledge is accessible somewhere.

Some take pride in "slapping" people out of what they perceive as their targets' ignorance. There are many who use this approach, but I don't think they've put much thought into it if they truly believe what they say. How can your words "slap" anyone out of their "ignorance" if the words are not true, if they make leaps of logic and assumptions about that person's intelligence, personal dignity, or ability with the search bar?

I would like to say this to those who follow that philosophy. Consider perhaps if the target of your disgust and derision asked the question because they were seeking a different, or more current, audience, or more specific individuals (perhaps on their server, or from factions other than their own) than would be reached by that search bar, or because they wanted to ask further questions on the same subject from someone who responds in real time, or in the in-depth benefits of a forum format.

Asking that initial question may be simply a lead-in to an entire discussion of which you are not aware. So who is actually doing something silly in this case? The person who asked a question, or the person who makes a vast list of assumptions about that person from the fact that they asked a question?

I daresay the community may need to take a good, deep look at themselves and why they are really behaving in a rude manner, before they respond to that. Asking a question isn't an act of ignorance, it is a seeking of knowledge, and I firmly agree that such seeking should be treated with dignity.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

I do agree with you OP. Personally, I hate rudeness, so I do try to be polite.

I am more keen to respond in turn if I feel as though I'm being flamed, called out directly, or if a poster isn't even trying to consider any of the advice that anyone posted.

Similar to Desdi, I do personally get agitated when people ask questions about something that's right in a guide that I wrote, so I understand where she's coming from also...considering that it's stickied...at the very top of the cleric section...

But I agree. Kind of feels like lots of people are getting run from the forums. They're not too keen to come here anyways, and when they come, they get burned alive....which isn't a good way to make them come back. Hopefully, we as a community can become more inviting, and less aggressive towards posters unless the need arises to do so.

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide

Like I tell members of my faction...

google it (if I am busy), or I will say brb let me google it.

Its what I do and 99 times out of 100 its right there, and most of the time when I do answer their questions, how did I know the answer? As I said above, I googled it, if I don't know the answer off the top of my head.

But, I also tell everyone there are no stupid questions, as normally someone on knows the answer.

opkossy

From what I see, asking the question itself isn't what gets people ripped into most times. It's asking the question that's literally answered right there in multiple sections where they had to practically ignore everything else to not see an answer immediately that has people get more offensive. Especially so when the question asked is answered in the first page of a local stickied thread and someone decides to make a brand new topic instead. In those cases, it basically becomes a sort of, "If you don't want to put even the slightest effort into helping yourself why should we help you," attitude that we'll see around here. This is doubly so the case for those who attack people that answer their questions still, even if the answer isn't in the most friendly manner as a result of the lack of effort shown.

On the flip side, those who do take the time to search for something and either post in the relevant threads, or refer to answers that they found that didn't help them are usually treated with far more kindness and respect. Especially when they're willing to be decent in turn to those answering them or don't try to insist upon flaming people who answer them, as some members get a quick reputation for doing.


Essentially, it's the difference between three types of threads.
One like this where the OP asks a question in a decent manner after showing they've put forth some effort on their own and gets (mostly) civilized responses as a result.

A thread like this where the OP starts off with what seems to be a normal question (only a hint of attitude near the end that's easily overlooked) and it quickly devolves from there as the attitude involved quickly causes others to not want to deal with the person reasonably anymore as they're showing far less than reason and respect themselves and is treated in kind.

And, finally, a thread like... say... the times where we have people asking during maint with a stickied thread up hours in advance about why the servers are down, if it's just them, and so on and so forth. (I'd have linked a third thread related to endgame type things but there wasn't a good one I could use between pages 15 and 20 of General Discussion and I was being too lazy to search.)



The three types of threads will get vastly different responses even if they're about similar things merely based on how the OP presents themselves. Even the nicer members of the community tend to prefer people show some kindness, decency, or effort of their own to be given the most patient and thought-out responses. Those who don't show as much in the first place tend to be given shorter responses or just linked to the relevant information... and this is from our nicest members who try their best to be kind and patient with everyone. So it only goes downhill from there when we get to the less nice people.

Verenor - Morai

OPKossy wrote: »

From what I see, asking the question itself isn't what gets people ripped into most times. It's asking the question that's literally answered right there in multiple sections where they had to practically ignore everything else to not see an answer immediately that has people get more offensive. Especially so when the question asked is answered in the first page of a local stickied thread and someone decides to make a brand new topic instead. In those cases, it basically becomes a sort of, "If you don't want to put even the slightest effort into helping yourself why should we help you," attitude that we'll see around here. This is doubly so the case for those who attack people that answer their questions still, even if the answer isn't in the most friendly manner as a result of the lack of effort shown.

On the flip side, those who do take the time to search for something and either post in the relevant threads, or refer to answers that they found that didn't help them are usually treated with far more kindness and respect. Especially when they're willing to be decent in turn to those answering them or don't try to insist upon flaming people who answer them, as some members get a quick reputation for doing.


Essentially, it's the difference between three types of threads.
One like this where the OP asks a question in a decent manner after showing they've put forth some effort on their own and gets (mostly) civilized responses as a result.

A thread like this where the OP starts off with what seems to be a normal question (only a hint of attitude near the end that's easily overlooked) and it quickly devolves from there as the attitude involved quickly causes others to not want to deal with the person reasonably anymore as they're showing far less than reason and respect themselves and is treated in kind.

And, finally, a thread like... say... the times where we have people asking during maint with a stickied thread up hours in advance about why the servers are down, if it's just them, and so on and so forth. (I'd have linked a third thread related to endgame type things but there wasn't a good one I could use between pages 15 and 20 of General Discussion and I was being too lazy to search.)



The three types of threads will get vastly different responses even if they're about similar things merely based on how the OP presents themselves. Even the nicer members of the community tend to prefer people show some kindness, decency, or effort of their own to be given the most patient and thought-out responses. Those who don't show as much in the first place tend to be given shorter responses or just linked to the relevant information... and this is from our nicest members who try their best to be kind and patient with everyone. So it only goes downhill from there when we get to the less nice people.

I wanted to add my 2 cents here as well, but you already nailed it. +1 to it all.

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

I responded in kind to the way you addressed me. I think if you read the rest of my responses, they are similarly responded to in kind. If this time of communication is offensive to you then perhaps you should take a long hard look at what you are posting. I've found only the guilty get truly upset.

Looks to me like you stoop as low as the exact people you're trying to adress in the OP, making you no better than any of them and just as guilty. Kinda hypocritical when you were trying in the OP to make these forums a better place. Lead by example if you want to make a change.

Only the guilty get upset? Confront any unjustified person and ask if they aren't upset. Getting upset has nothing to do with right or wrong, all has to do with whether you accept something or not.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Removed

opkossy

Not answering already happens on a fairly regular basis and still doesn't actually change the fact of the matter about these types of people and threads that would get less than pleasant responses.

Heck, even when the mods go and merge topics into where they should be in the first place or redirect people to where they can get information, and so on and so forth in a nice and polite manner, what happens? Often times these same people who were treated nicely by the mods (and would not have been give a nice treatment by those this thread is concerned about) just come right back complaining about having their posts "removed" or how the mod was "useless" and so on and so forth. And the mods aren't always around. A good deal of people aren't going to just ignore someone spam bumping their thread every 5 minutes complaining about how they aren't getting answers even though there are threads around that answer their question and the responses to the person who does that sort of thing will not usually be anything near nice in the time between people rightfully being annoyed by it and when one of the mods gets a chance to check in and deal with the thread.

What of a thread like this where the reply is actually helpful and accurate.. but likely wouldn't be seen as nice by many people? One need not be kind at all to still be helpful, and while our community isn't very kind to the people that don't put forth any effort towards helping themselves... you'll almost always have the answer given to those people anyways even if, as I mentioned, it's not given in the nicest manner. Like I said, there can be three different threads asking the same thing and the way people, or even the same person for that matter, will respond to them here will be vastly different based on how the OP presents themselves. Could we afford to act nicer, certainly. Could the people we're responding to also afford to put forth some modicum of effort? Definitely.

Remember, even you yourself are guilty of this, Red. Many of your responses can be seen as of the "rude" variety and someone skimming this can easily tell you to take your own advice and then quote your past posts as evidence for it. I know I certainly have my fair share of posts where I'm the "Evil Power-Abusing Horrible Insulting Flaming Trolling Mod that always lies and should be fired because nobody knows how someone as obviously lacking in intelligence as me could have ever become a mod!™" and I do, in fact, often choose to not post in topics where I know for a fact I have nothing good to say at all. The people who aren't mods? They have no obligation to hold themselves back as such.







tl;dr: Telling people not to post isn't going to change every part of what causes this and simply serves to make you look hypocritical when people can easily go through your posts and use what you're saying here against you.



Also, I should totally get "Evil Power-Abusing Horrible Insulting Flaming Trolling Mod that always lies and should be fired because nobody knows how someone as obviously lacking in intelligence as me could have ever become a mod!™" as my title. Including the trademark. b:laugh

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Removed

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There's a simple solution to that.

Don't Respond.

If you're a Mod (who's job, as I understand the title, is to moderate the forums) then perhaps you could point to the relevant thread / answer within the thread and be helpful, thus ending the usual long thread of insults and abuse every damn one of these threads devolves into.

If you're *not* a mod, then either decide to 1) help or 2) stay out.

It's a tough problem, I know.

\no it isn't
\\but some people just use these forums as a way to slap people they don't even know for the sheer thrill of it
\\\it's honestly not worth it. Go outside when you get frothed up like that. Breathe some real air.


.

You would be amazed at the number of threads I choose to not respond to because I don't have a civil response. b:chuckle

For those of us that frequent the forums, it is especially annoying to have common and knowledgeable threads bumped down just because some idiot is too lazy to look before they post.

Common sense should tell you to look for an answer to your questions before you go asking around. Personally, if I were a mod, I'd just move the OP's post into the relevant discussion and then delete the other responses.
Problem with that though, if the OP is too stupid/lazy to see what was already in front of them, they aren't likely going to be able to find their post, or the responses anymore.

bluestuffzzz

TechDawg - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ok, I know I do not post often, hardly at all, honestly, but I troll these forums frequently and I've been playing PWI since 2009. However, more and more I am seeing people quick to jump down the throats of someone who asks a question, rather then taking a second to just answer it. WHO THE BLEEP CARES if it's been answered. There are too many narcissistic, self involved people who take up far too much space posting how wrong it was to ask a given question, then it would take to simply answer it and move on.

Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone searched long and hard for the answer before, omg, having the gall to post something here. I'm nearly 45 years old, a college graduate, successful, Married, with 4 kids, and I consider myself to be AT LEAST of average intelligence, and there are times when searching the forums produces nothing remotely close to what it was I was trying to find out. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be for those (and there are plenty) that search when English is not their first language.

All I'm saying is, it's time to get over yourselves and maybe start just answering a question in a few simple lines, or giving someone a link to a thread you know exists. Adding your insults and snide comments doesn't do anyone any service, and definitely doesn't make you look intelligent like you seem to think it does. Taking 4-8 posts to argue how stupid it was for someone to ask a redundant question? Far more idiotic then just answering or redirecting.

*sigh* I think it's time, perhaps, they removed the word kindness from the dictionaries, as it doesn't really seem to exist anymore.

- TD

---

"You cannot choose what LIFE will THROW at you! You can, however, choose what to THROW BACK!" - ME

The problem is that a lot of us have been fairly active forum-goers since 2008. Perhaps even longer, if we were part of other forums/message-board communities in the past (I was). Anyone can create an account. Age? Doesn't matter. Language? Doesn't matter. Serious, immature, lazy, dumb? Doesn't matter. When someone who is... Say, 13 years old and creates an account on PWI-Forums, they often times type broken English responses asking for something in return (knowledge, stuff in-game, etc), but haven't bothered looking very far or hard (if even at all...) for what they are wanting.

For example; the technical support section of PWI-Forums! It's littered with folks making bold, rash attempts to say that PWE's servers are to blame for lag/DCing, and how PWE should fix it (along with other things that can't be fixed since PWE isn't the developer of the game). In reality, if they had looked beyond page one OR at a sticky thread, they could have at the very least applied some of the important information to the thread in order to receive help.

Then we also have our fair share of trolls, and people who enjoy making people upset...

The point is, you can't expect an online community NOT to have 14 year olds, people who don't use English as a native language, and people who are immature/trolly. To expect something like that would to create a private invitation-only (closed) forums. That defeats the purpose of having video gamers talk about the relevant video game at hand. Furthermore, it would cut the community severely. Either way, to expect that people would not act in a manner that upsets you on a video game message board is fairly lame.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Sometimes giving a link is much faster than ending up in a debate about how the OP is stupid/lazy/etc. I'm not saying these are bad people, they might just be frustrated.
People are generally less likely to accept criticism that was given in a rude manner... a lot of people already have a hard time accepting criticism when it's polite!
Just tell them to search, google it, check the page etc.

I've done this myself, I've lost my cool a few times, I've been a little rude (or very rude, depends on how people take it) but if we keep jumping on people's throats like that people will just decide not to post anything on the forums, some that might even have genuine questions they were unable to find answers for but are disheartened to post.

I understand very well how it is when someone makes a thread about something that's literally..a scroll down to find a thread with the exact answer/question/information.. I know that very well because of all the people that never bothered to take some time to look at my guides after all the time/effort I put into them. If someone can't be bothered to help themselves, why should you?


In short - I just think some of the flaming/bitterness/rudeness is unnecessary but I see how it can be frustrating and why people end up doing it. That doesn't make it okay though (from neither side).

But if the OP that asks the question themselves end up being the rude ones after receiving answers/help... I'm not gonna bother being nice either!

TechDawg - Sanctuary

There have been a few comments here trying to claim I'm being no better, and, maybe I'm not. Honestly, if it got you thinking about this topic, then I'm satisfied.

I may not have the post count here, but I am no stranger to communities like this, in fact I used to run a large forum, with nearly 10,000 members, I created it, hosted it, and was very active in all of the community activities, and anyone who recognizes my Nickname, might know of what I am referring to. But that is neither here nor there.

On the flip side, I'm very pleased with all the comments that really have touched on the true nature of what I was trying to say. One comment in particular really rang true, and that being, it's hard enough to get people to use the forums as it is. Such a small percentage of those who play the game actually ever make it here, and even less, actually ever post a reply, let alone starting a thread. Sure, there are those that will always make you want to bang your head against a brick wall, but there are others, who really had legitimate questions and either because of a language barrier, a complete lack of experience in how forums work, or a total brain ****, might have missed something completely obvious. Why is it so hard to just say, that was recently answered: Here (provide link). It's helpful, it doesn't flame, and it stops the need for the thread all together, while at the same time, not scaring the poster away, necessarily.

I don't know, I don't have all the answers, I'd be lucky if I had even one, sometimes. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone in particular. I've had a better night sleep and maybe thinking a bit more clearly today.

Thank you to all of you who've responded, good or bad. It's what it's all about, and I do appreciate your having taken the time to speak your mind.

- Matthew

mechabeastmc666

I agree its a lot of Trash littering the forums and the game itself. All ready to Gang up on one person and just like that, One trash after another Joins in, And that person who ask'ed the question is considered to be a fictional troll character if they don't fold to the relentless assault from the trash. i Know this because it's happen to me before, and i recently see it happening to other users as well, It's basically, One piece of Trash says something and then, If the person who asked the question Dont agree with the piece of trash, Their outcasted as a fictional Troll character. I knew the online users would be Weird, But this is just insane. To the wise , wrongfully assaulted user i say, Dont let it get you down. The Trash that is.

ovenusarmanio

I think the moments I've had to refrain from posting the most were when someone after asks a question, but then refuses to accept the answer and starts attacking the people trying to help them. Even though the answer isn't an opinion based thing like "Is R9 too expensive?" but rather a factual thing such as "What is the current gold price of R9?" Which isn't a thread that actually existed but kind of points to the type of thing I'm talking about.

The tech support in general is a good example. Like if the servers aren't down, they aren't down. I don't care how new your PC is, the servers aren't down. And your issue isn't related. So don't be rude to the people who are attempting to help you troubleshoot your issue when they take the time to help you solve it. I swear SylenThunder has the patience of a saint to provide so much help in there over the years. I respect the heck out of that!

Another one I get annoyed with is those questions that aren't innocent questions and deliberately ignored the information at hand because the OP wanted to prove some point. And uses it as a jumping point to attack anyone whose opinion differs from their own. We're all guilty of that to some extent but when an OP asks a question solely for the purpose of pushing an agenda and then when everyone disagrees jumps down their throat, that's super annoying.

But I'm gonna second Desdi in that some of the flames aren't necessary. I'd also add that just because we are annoyed by these things, that doesn't give us an excuse to insult others. Two wrongs do not make a right. Again though, I get it. Easier said than done!