Ability to role back Old Skills, from Primal ones.

HESOKA - Raging Tide
HESOKA - Raging Tide Posts: 169 Arc User
edited June 2014 in Suggestion Box
Hi, I feel i have been cheated and tricked into getting CursedJail as an exchange for the old Assassin Headhunt and Raving Slash, which is why i want to suggest that we should have the ability to change back to our Old Skills.

Now i realize i should have listened to the people that did not recommend getting the skill.

Cursed Jail

Chanel: 0.4 seconds
Cast: 2.5 seconds
Stuns for 6 seconds.

With a cast time of 2.5 seconds you really only have 3.5 seconds after you have used the skill.
Not to mention the skill hits 4 time with combined damage that is just slightly above that of the Old Headhunt skill. This is very critical, considering that a "Zerk-Crit" by the Old HeadHunt skill would be almost equivalent to Zerk-Criting all 4 Hits of Cursed Jail, the odd of that happening is close to nil, to add to that, very rarely do i use the skill (CursedJail ) on Arcane armour Class with ought giving them a purify proc, Some may argue that "well you can cancel the skill" but why should I cancel my hardest hitting skill? HeadHunt Was the hardest hitting skill equivalent to about 2 Base Physical hits.

HeadHunt:

Chanel: 0.5 seconds
Cast: 0.5 seconds
Stuns 5 seconds

With a cast of only 0.5 seconds, leaves us with with a whole 4.5 seconds of stun time.


To add to that ever since the new primal update, with the introduction of spirit by which in a few months, the average player will have at least 800+ spirit. every attack level will count for close to double itself. With Sage Raving Slash giving us +10 attack, the 10 attack levels will not only be +10% more damage, with the spirit of 800+. it can count for up to 20-25% more damage added to base hits.


I Feel I have been cheated, and i demand my Old Skills Back please.
Am Awesome b:victory

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by HESOKA - Raging Tide on

Comments

  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I personally think that ALL skills should be able to unlearn some level, mystic and there's I think 2-3 others class with skills actually better at lvl10 than sage/demon, but we cannot unlearn them, BUT they should put a huge warning saying that if you want to get back the skill than you will need to get the book again.
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  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I do strongly suspect that there is a way, I'm like 99% sure that this would work, but I do prefer your suggestion, than the VERY unfeasible 'method' below.

    That is: Changing from demon to sage, I am so assuming that if you have learned a primal version of skills that require you to be demon or sage, you will unlearn the primal skill.

    Though as I said that way is highly unfeasible, and rather counter productive, ergo I do prefer your suggestion.

    The ability to unlearn a specific skill (without have to switch from demon to sage, back to demon, or any other variation) would indeed be badass.
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  • Zheii - Archosaur
    Zheii - Archosaur Posts: 2,732 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Oh god please change it so there is a way to unlearn Primal Skills, I learnt Gravel Blade and I regret it so much, I want my old skills back too!

    Also, after the making of my thread here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1692641
    I sent a ticket into support asking if there was a way to get my old skills back but they replied with a negative, they don't have the power or way to do that. :/
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  • Sevchenko - Dreamweaver
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    This suggestion to the devs is like asking a 3-year old person to build a nuclear reactor.
    Devs doesn't know how to "Nerf" stuff or change things that are already done, they only know how to put new things xD

    Now a little bit out of reality: In a game, for the most an RPG game the objective is to improve not to regress. i do have cursed jail and the damage from it is really amazing, the long casting can be canceled, true, into a very fast stun indeed, from the other hand we got elimination which is a total badass skill. I like the Cursed Jail myself, I do happen to 1-shot a lot of people from its first hit I don't think its damage is weak, au contraire. Now, there are controversies about demon redwood venomworm and Storm Dance, Frost Splash and others which are really a lot more broken.

    From 1 hand you lose 10 att levels bonus from sage raving which is very good, from the other, you get 5 att levels extra to chill of the deep and 3 very-decently hitting skills. Which is a more than fair trade.

    About frost splash 2 spark cost being that it uses Deadly Shot and Frozen arrow (which none costs more than 30 chi and none have more than 10 seconds cooldown, frost splash has 30 seconds) Means a merge that results in a totally new skill that has nothing to do with any of the skills used on making it.

    Demon Redwood Venomworm upgrades from a skill which description reads "Reduces defense TO ZERO, if succeeds" to "Reduce defense by 180% gear value", I never tried demon ironwood, if its really Def zero or def minus 100 only, but if first option then this primal is messed up.

    Mystics lose a healing skill to make a 'stronger' version of an attack skill (which is indeed slightly stronger than the other) but the matter is: The new skill gets ZERO aspects of the healing skill sacrified.

    Now, the sage Cursed Jail is said to save chi more often than lv 10 headhunt I'd use that in my favor if I was you. Cursed Jail is a very strong skill, it IS worth the sacrifice, trust me.

    I voted No because what's the right thing to be done is to rethink on some mixes instead of allowing skill regression (would be a "Silver-Tape-a-like" solution)
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  • HESOKA - Raging Tide
    HESOKA - Raging Tide Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    From 1 hand you lose 10 att levels bonus from sage raving which is very good, from the other, you get 5 att levels extra to chill of the deep and 3 very-decently hitting skills. Which is a more than fair trade.

    Don't get me wrong. i am not asking for ALL primal skills to be rolled back. I just want my Old HeadHunt and Raving slash. like i said. sooner or later, that +10 attack level will be worth 25%+ more damage to you base hits, And that will topple Anything The Current CursedJail Offers. I can't remember the last time i actually used that skill with ought procking an AAs purify, You say the damage is Insane? well a cast time of 2.5 seconds vs a cast time of 0.5 seconds, a difference of 2 seconds By which i can throw in LIfeHunter/spell cutter to insanely out Damage Cursed Jail with the same amount of hits.

    We Must Have the ability to role back to Our Old Skills Its Just Not Fair!
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I do strongly suspect that there is a way, I'm like 99% sure that this would work, but I do prefer your suggestion, than the VERY unfeasible 'method' below.

    That is: Changing from demon to sage, I am so assuming that if you have learned a primal version of skills that require you to be demon or sage, you will unlearn the primal skill.

    Though as I said that way is highly unfeasible, and rather counter productive, ergo I do prefer your suggestion.

    The ability to unlearn a specific skill (without have to switch from demon to sage, back to demon, or any other variation) would indeed be badass.

    I thought about that but i mean for a sin thats Will Cost Big Load Of mills.

    Assuming i need all sage books again, Sage Twin Strike about 200m and Sage Puncture wound About 280m, with the rest of the sage skills for about 150m, that adds to about 630m. thats is really not an option.
    Am Awesome b:victory

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  • Sevchenko - Dreamweaver
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Yes indeed, it might seem unfair right now but it is their way of "Nerfing" stuff that needed nerfing without having much (other) complaints.

    Because, 40 att levels from chill PLUS 10 att levels from raving would be reason for 10000 years of yelling from caster users. I don't think they ever plan to roll this back. Maybe, just maybe they change some numbers here and there, like channelings, castings, chi costs, but they're really unable/unlikely to undo things or fix things. I know this game since 2008 it's always been the same **** (well since 2009 and on mostly).

    If Heero asks me "Should I log this?" Id say: "Sure do it, but we already know how this is going to end"
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  • Shadowvzss - Harshlands
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    i would prefer the ideea aswell but i think maybe hard to do to them
  • Saibai - Raging Tide
    Saibai - Raging Tide Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    >_> they wouldn't be able to make as much money if you didn't have to reset your whole character to get back to lvl 10 skills ijs. LOL b:laugh
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  • DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Normal cursed jail also "only" gives you 3.5 seconds to do anything, because the cast is 1.5 as well, not 0.5, after you used it, so that's an invalid arugment.

    As for the other things:
    The damage per hit on the 4 hits of cursed aren't as consistent as calculating total damage and then splitting it by 4, the first and the last hit do hit the hardest, the 2 in between are the weaker ones.

    While 1 hit of the regular headhunt will do more damage than any of the hits, the first and last hit come pretty close to doing comparable damage, making it also easier to bypass a charm, the total damage is also easily a lot more than headhunt.
    But I guess it's what someone prefers.

    Will we ever see a way to roll back skills? I doubt it.
    Is there a way? Yes, switch cultivations and do your skills all over again (that is supposed to reset primals right?), lol.
    Soon™
    Well, maybe later, semi-retired.
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    >Roll back skills!
    No. No one was forced to learn them. Live with your choices, for better or for worse....or pay the price of your "mistake". :^)
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  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Demon Redwood Venomworm upgrades from a skill which description reads "Reduces defense TO ZERO, if succeeds" to "Reduce defense by 180% gear value", I never tried demon ironwood, if its really Def zero or def minus 100 only, but if first option then this primal is messed up.



    Demon ironwood can decrease your defense to zero, as in if you open your character stats while you have the effect and you look at your defense, you will see a nasty "0".

    In the other hand the "upgraded version" reduces defense by 180%, which is quite a lot, but not as much as the old one. At 180% most people will end up with 3 digit defense, and the best geared with barely over 1k.

    The advantage of redworm stone, demon, is that it always reduces defense by 40%, and a few times is going to be 180%. However, there is no way to tell when you prok 180% and when it's 40%, unless you are checking all the time your pet's damage, which I think is a little bit too complicated. And for that little detail is why I didn't learn the new skill, because I need to know when the effect is working so I can do big damage, like in my signature.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Eh, I would really like something like this.
    I think the Primal skills are a little messy and a lot of people took the risk of learning skills first so they can provide the information to others and the like. Most Sage/Demon skills are a clear upgrade to skills but some of the Primal skills are fusions/mergers.

    Heck, they could just add a boutique item for all I care >.> saves you the time and cost of having to switch cultivation x2, get ALL the skills books again and farm the blood again for whatever Primal skill you do like.

    This isn't just about me* but there's a fair share of people that are unhappy about skills they learnt, especially those who learnt them during the first days not knowing much about the skills or being mislead by the game descriptions. A lot of people also don't have the time/willingness to change cultivations and farm/get all the books/blood again and all that b:surrender
    Won't be the first time they add a boutique item to skip stuff, like the Panda/NewFox questchain item.



    (*whoever follows my posts probably knows that I'm not very happy with Demon Redstone; yes I did consciously learn it because it's good for PvE and teamwork/group PvP as it's more reliable but after seeing how the passives/War Avatars work and how annoying the "same icon" is, I'd rather have Ironwood back).
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  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    tbh, Demon Redstone was probably an intended nerf on the 0 pdef thing original Demon Ironwood had. They just made it slightly attractive to give up Demon Ironwood for by putting the always reduce pdef thing on it.
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    tbh, Demon Redstone was probably an intended nerf on the 0 pdef thing original Demon Ironwood had. They just made it slightly attractive to give up Demon Ironwood for by putting the always reduce pdef thing on it.

    That just makes it a double edged sword that annoys the sages since theirs is less "useful" in comparison.

    Said sword being demons now don't know when their ironwood procs... but neither will their opponents which gives more chance for sudden death by phys attack when before they'd know to kite like mad/qpq/whatever.

    But, personally, I'm happy I didn't learn it on my demon.
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  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 Posts: 4,887 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    Do we have all the primal skills updates yet. Ithought some where missing still.
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    >Roll back skills!
    No. No one was forced to learn them. Live with your choices, for better or for worse....or pay the price of your "mistake". :^)

    I do agree in a way, but there's skills that wasn't know as better lvl10 than lvl11 when people did chose to get them lvl11, like the mystic/psy skills that ignore def lvl at lvl1-10, but count them at lvl11, it's not something that is in the skill description so it's not something people could know.

    As some skills sage/demon version are broken and the devs aren't fixing them (like demon crapplord for mystics), the demon version of storm dance (primal skill upgrade that cost 60 bloods) is broken and seeing how they never did fix crapplord while it's broken since the start they will prolly never fix storm dance either, so demon mystics lost 2 lvl100 skills for ''nothing'' and would have maybe chose to keep the 2 skills if they knew that the upgrade was broken.

    ^ That couldn't be know before people get the skill and test it and players shouldn't be the ones paying cause the devs didn't updated the skills correctly.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    I do agree in a way, but there's skills that wasn't know as better lvl10 than lvl11 when people did chose to get them lvl11, like the mystic/psy skills that ignore def lvl at lvl1-10, but count them at lvl11, it's not something that is in the skill description so it's not something people could know.

    As some skills sage/demon version are broken and the devs aren't fixing them (like demon crapplord for mystics), the demon version of storm dance (primal skill upgrade that cost 60 bloods) is broken and seeing how they never did fix crapplord while it's broken since the start they will prolly never fix storm dance either, so demon mystics lost 2 lvl100 skills for ''nothing'' and would have maybe chose to keep the 2 skills if they knew that the upgrade was broken.

    ^ That couldn't be know before people get the skill and test it and players shouldn't be the ones paying cause the devs didn't updated the skills correctly.


    +1 to this whole post.
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  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 Posts: 4,887 Community Moderator
    edited June 2014
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »
    I do agree in a way, but there's skills that wasn't know as better lvl10 than lvl11 when people did chose to get them lvl11, like the mystic/psy skills that ignore def lvl at lvl1-10, but count them at lvl11, it's not something that is in the skill description so it's not something people could know.

    As some skills sage/demon version are broken and the devs aren't fixing them (like demon crapplord for mystics), the demon version of storm dance (primal skill upgrade that cost 60 bloods) is broken and seeing how they never did fix crapplord while it's broken since the start they will prolly never fix storm dance either, so demon mystics lost 2 lvl100 skills for ''nothing'' and would have maybe chose to keep the 2 skills if they knew that the upgrade was broken.

    ^ That couldn't be know before people get the skill and test it and players shouldn't be the ones paying cause the devs didn't updated the skills correctly.


    Would I be better asking for a list of Broken Skills then? and suggesting that theses skills are fixed. Keep in mind skills that are not broken IE its to OP I cant count with this. I can only log skills where they are Broken ( Does not do what is says on the tin ) Something unexpected happens or has an unusual effect.

    Is this Something that would be useful to the Community?
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  • anaovt1
    anaovt1 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Here's my suggestion:

    Make an in-game mechanic to craft the old skills at the cost of losing the primal skill. You'd have to farm the mats the same way, maybe even more. That way people can switch between lvl 11 and primal, particularly the mergers, but with it requiring hard work to do so.
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  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    heero200 wrote: »
    Would I be better asking for a list of Broken Skills then? and suggesting that theses skills are fixed. Keep in mind skills that are not broken IE its to OP I cant count with this. I can only log skills where they are Broken ( Does not do what is says on the tin ) Something unexpected happens or has an unusual effect.

    Is this Something that would be useful to the Community?

    They got report as broken over and over again and start by going update your thread, I see you post on the forum, but yet you ignore your own suggestion thread.
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  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    anaovt1 wrote: »
    Here's my suggestion:

    Make an in-game mechanic to craft the old skills at the cost of losing the primal skill. You'd have to farm the mats the same way, maybe even more. That way people can switch between lvl 11 and primal, particularly the mergers, but with it requiring hard work to do so.

    Yes, sounds good. I wouldn't mind some extra work but definitely not the.. switch cultivation x2, get all the skills again, farm all the primals you wanted again... b:surrender
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  • SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver
    SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I will say that there does need to be a way to unlearn the primal skills, reverting back to the sage/demon version...or even a way to unlearn sage/demon skills, reverting back to the level 10 version.

    Reverting back to level 10 version...you'd need to purchase the book all over again, and pay the fee.

    Primals, you'd need the bloods again.

    I do still feel that its unfair to those people who bought a skill, only to find out that the description was false. As others have said, that wasn't their fault, and they shouldn't suffer with an inferior skill due to that. Also, some skills don't mention that it leaves some elements out...like the cleric's new AOE buff.

    Due to the fact that the skill description was wrong, or in some cases, not elaborate enough...there does need to be an element put in place to reverse this.
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  • Gertha - Archosaur
    Gertha - Archosaur Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I'd prefer the option of keeping both skills, like Demon Ironwood, Blazing Scarab and the primal skill with it's % nerf. Just like barbs and venos can keep both old tiggy/fox form and the new panda/ninetail form. Even if it requires increasing cooldown significantly or something.
  • Shadowvzss - Harshlands
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Gertha - Archosaur wrote: »
    I'd prefer the option of keeping both skills, like Demon Ironwood, Blazing Scarab and the primal skill with it's % nerf. Just like barbs and venos can keep both old tiggy/fox form and the new panda/ninetail form. Even if it requires increasing cooldown significantly or something.

    imbued tiger form with panda form and not simple sage tiger form, sage tiger form reduce the pattack but imbued tiger form same effect but not reduce tiger form+give 20chi per transform

    so at tiger and fox form the imbued version is simple boost, no drawback at all but same if u once learned then it replace old one even icon look like same but skill itself isnt
  • Gertha - Archosaur
    Gertha - Archosaur Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »
    imbued tiger form with panda form and not simple sage tiger form, sage tiger form reduce the pattack but imbued tiger form same effect but not reduce tiger form+give 20chi per transform

    so at tiger and fox form the imbued version is simple boost, no drawback at all but same if u once learned then it replace old one even icon look like same but skill itself isnt
    Yes, already learned my ninetail form, so can see the benefits... But I did like the option to still be able to transform into a good old red fox, even though in fact they bear no difference, except the look. And I told about increasing cooldowns or other possible drawbacks in case that keeping both demon Ironwood and the primal skill would be considered too OP.
  • Shadowvzss - Harshlands
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Gertha - Archosaur wrote: »
    Yes, already learned my ninetail form, so can see the benefits... But I did like the option to still be able to transform into a good old red fox, even though in fact they bear no difference, except the look. And I told about increasing cooldowns or other possible drawbacks in case that keeping both demon Ironwood and the primal skill would be considered too OP.

    but ur old fox form not exist, u got new red fox form
    old fox form
    Transform into your fox form,
    increasing Physical Defense by
    150% and Accuracy by 250%, and
    decreasing maximum Mana by 20%.
    Allows Fox Form skills to be used.

    Sage version increases Physical Defense by 150% and Accuracy by 250%.

    imbued fox form
    Transform into your fox form, increasing Physical Defense by
    150% and Accuracy by 250%.
    Allows Fox Form skills to be used.

    Shares a cooldown with Spirit Fox Form.

    Sage version generates 35 Chi.

    so totally this mean have: sage, demon, sage imbued, demon imbued fox form + sage/demon ninetail form, and u lose 1st 2 skill for gain imbued versions
  • Gertha - Archosaur
    Gertha - Archosaur Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Shadowvzss - Harshlands wrote: »
    but ur old fox form not exist, u got new red fox form



    so totally this mean have: sage, demon, sage imbued, demon imbued fox form + sage/demon ninetail form, and u lose 1st 2 skill for gain imbued versions
    New red fox form, but I just mean the same look. That's what I didn't want to lose. I don't mind losing the old fox form's mana reduction, that's why I am quite happy with technically losing the old fox form skill. But I don't want to lose the full armor break of the demon Ironwood for the 180% debuff, that's why I would like to also keep the old skill. And in this case, I would even accept some new form of the demon Ironwood with certain drawbacks, just to keep the ability to drop physical defense to zero... Just thinking about a possible tradeoff for what I'd like to have...

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