Fix the 4 million coin gold cap
Teiw - Sanctuary
Posts: 170 Arc User
On Sanctuary right now, there are a lot of people selling gold for around 3,557,300 coins up to 3,900,000 coins.
Since there are billions of coins coming into the server everyday from bh100 rewards and autocultivation, maybe its time to increase the gold cap a little? To 6, 8 or 10 million coins each? I mean, if gold stays at the 4 mil maximum...
Then later on I'll be able to buy 1520 gold for 6,080,000,000 coins. That is 6 billion, 80 million coins, I think. Who is to say if in a year or two, that will even be a fair price for gold?
Anyways, its just an idea. What do you all think?
Since there are billions of coins coming into the server everyday from bh100 rewards and autocultivation, maybe its time to increase the gold cap a little? To 6, 8 or 10 million coins each? I mean, if gold stays at the 4 mil maximum...
Then later on I'll be able to buy 1520 gold for 6,080,000,000 coins. That is 6 billion, 80 million coins, I think. Who is to say if in a year or two, that will even be a fair price for gold?
Anyways, its just an idea. What do you all think?
Post edited by Teiw - Sanctuary on
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Comments
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Teiw - Sanctuary wrote: »On Sanctuary right now, there are a lot of people selling gold for around 3,557,300 coins up to 3,900,000 coins.
Since there are billions of coins coming into the server everyday from bh100 rewards and autocultivation, maybe its time to increase the gold cap a little? To 6, 8 or 10 million coins each? I mean, if gold stays at the 4 mil maximum...
Then later on I'll be able to buy 1520 gold for 6,080,000,000 coins. That is 6 billion, 80 million coins, I think. Who is to say if in a year or two, that will even be a fair price for gold?
Anyways, its just an idea. What do you all think?
Seriously? Are you really serious? If so, please remove yourself from this game/forum, w/e. Even with the current situation of things...a Gold price over 2m is never fair and only appears due to massive greed from the community.
Instead put down the cap to 2m coins. PPL will still charge as they would be way too lazy to farm stuff and setting up effective bots isnt for free as well. Calculate in the energy costs and the management you need for bots.
Anyways...that is the heaviest troll I have ever seen on this forums for the past 5 years...and that means something.
3,5m coins are an average 10 hours of botting w/o x2. Its more then fair to get at least 1 gold for this.My Barb:
mypers.pw/1.8/#146464
My SB:
mypers.pw/1.8/#1414760 -
Are you insane? Or you just trolling? 10mil for gold? GTFOTeiw - Sanctuary wrote: »On Sanctuary right now, there are a lot of people selling gold for around 3,557,300 coins up to 3,900,000 coins.
Since there are billions of coins coming into the server everyday from bh100 rewards and autocultivation, maybe its time to increase the gold cap a little? To 6, 8 or 10 million coins each? I mean, if gold stays at the 4 mil maximum...
Then later on I'll be able to buy 1520 gold for 6,080,000,000 coins. That is 6 billion, 80 million coins, I think. Who is to say if in a year or two, that will even be a fair price for gold?
Anyways, its just an idea. What do you all think?
bilions of coins from bh100? lol . 5 mil and 2 mil reward from bh is rare and depends on how lucky you are. it can pass a month without getting money from bh100.
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Joe ?
Are you being cynical or what is this ? I always thought you were a sensible poster. This does not make sense....
Prices are made by supply and demand, not someones greed. Supply and demand is a real force, it cannot be controlled by price limits, it cannot be controlled by someones greed.
Yes gold will be 10m and people will be talking about the good old days when gold was only 3m Just like now they are talking about the days it was 1m, and when it was 1m, they were talking about the days it was a few 100k.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
How about no.
4 mil is enough (and tbh too much) as it is. Maybe for the old players with all their gear +10 r9r3 it's useful to make even more money they don't need, but you **** up every new player (yes we get new players, get over yourself) and his chance of obtaining competitive gear, even R8 gear would become absolutely unobtainable for them. You'd see an army of G16's quitting game because R9 is never going to happen for another 1-2 years for them and that's just not worth it.
Morai had gold capped last rep-sale already and we didn't need to raise the gold cap, actually loved the cap. If you raise the gold cap, might as well start giving new players 10mil coins for each level up untill lv100, that way they can at least get R8 in a feasable manner.0 -
... No thanks.
Not as if people haven't already been bypassing the AH by selling X amount of gold directly in WC anyways.
This topic hurts me on the inside.(Insert fancy image here)
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WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »Joe ?
Are you being cynical or what is this ? I always thought you were a sensible poster. This does not make sense....
Prices are made by supply and demand, not someones greed. Supply and demand is a real force, it cannot be controlled by price limits, it cannot be controlled by someones greed.
Yes gold will be 10m and people will be talking about the good old days when gold was only 3m Just like now they are talking about the days it was 1m, and when it was 1m, they were talking about the days it was a few 100k.
That shall never happen. What is fair about the fact, that you need to grind mobs for about 10 hours to be able to obtain 1 gold. Imagine what they had to change to keep that in balance.
If we ever see a gold price of 10m each then this game will be long gone. Setting up ~3 Bots for 10 hours a day to obtain 1 single gold is totally redicolous and absolutely not rentable...from the energy costs alone I could buy gold for way way less money.
If there wouldnt be that whole botting thing...you know...you would have to work hard for over 10 hours to get one gold and that is with current gold prices...how could that be fair? I think, that if I put 10 hours into a game and at current prices and all...and I would have under 10-20 gold then it would be a complete rip-off. I can achieve that via TT-Farming. But with grinding? No way. Not everyone can farm like I do. This would **** farmers over once again and is to be prevented.
Myself and many many others would isntantly quit even if they would just raise the limit. It stays where it is or that game will go to hell. I'M quite sure that the management is well aware of this.My Barb:
mypers.pw/1.8/#146464
My SB:
mypers.pw/1.8/#1414760 -
Looks cheaper to buy silly r9 with cash than with coin now days.I think the gold hike is a inside deal with pwe.0
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There is a gold cap of 4m b:shocked? I never knew that. i thought there was no cap on selling gold.0
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Joe - Morai wrote: »That shall never happen. What is fair about the fact, that you need to grind mobs for about 10 hours to be able to obtain 1 gold. Imagine what they had to change to keep that in balance.
If we ever see a gold price of 10m each then this game will be long gone. Setting up ~3 Bots for 10 hours a day to obtain 1 single gold is totally redicolous and absolutely not rentable...from the energy costs alone I could buy gold for way way less money.
If there wouldnt be that whole botting thing...you know...you would have to work hard for over 10 hours to get one gold and that is with current gold prices...how could that be fair? I think, that if I put 10 hours into a game and at current prices and all...and I would have under 10-20 gold then it would be a complete rip-off. I can achieve that via TT-Farming. But with grinding? No way. Not everyone can farm like I do. This would **** farmers over once again and is to be prevented.
Myself and many many others would isntantly quit even if they would just raise the limit. It stays where it is or that game will go to hell. I'M quite sure that the management is well aware of this.
You make me lol a bit Joe. As i said no price limit is going to curb the forces of supply and demand (instead the AH would no longer be used, people would only sell boutique items instead, or you would have to pay the Gold seller to put it in the AH so you can get it out, leading to all kind of scam options)
You are an R9 APS barb like me. we can tank 3-3 steelation even when it goes APS, we go afk to take a **** while we F12 emperor, GBA or illusion lord. We can get 15m per hour out of TT3-3 on average during 2x. If you want to make life for the starting player easier, youre gonna have to fix that inequality for them. As long as we are so vastly more efficient at farming then they are, they will always have to spend many hours to get what we get in 15 minutes. That is how markets work. On top of that, we play a long time and built up substantial wealth allowing us to make 100s of millions a month just from merchanting. These are the sources of the problem, this causes all the wealth to stream upwards, from the beginning player to us. the gold price is just one of the variables in this whole system that makes their life a misery but absolutely not the cause.
That said, more coin sinks to reduce inflation would not be a bad thing imo. But thinking there is anything good about the 4m gold limit is rather stupid. It is like saying a bread may not be sold for more than 0.50$ People would just stop baking bread and we'd all have to do without it unless you buy it on the black market for an even higher price than it would have costed in the first place.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
Or just accept the fact that the supply of gold is getting smaller by the day compared to the demand. In which case raising the cap will not do any good, as gold becomes the trade material and ingame coins are no longer considered a trade object due to the degrading unstable value of them.
In any scenario the only way to stabilize that is either to introduce a new item/trade material for buying gold, that is limited by something, non obtainable by botting (will not happen), or introduce a non boutique option to sink and control the coin inflation.
Maybe expand the [Resistance Force Leader] crafting service with [PW Promotions Agent Page] using FSP Untradeable coins ofc or a FSP+NW+Basic Badges combo. You can also add some [War Avatar Pack S] for something untradeable and not from boutique material. All in limited untradeable amounts ofc. Anyway granting some way of access on boutique items (not the fash or mounts/flyers) should solve this problem.
And here we are at the core of FSP business model that pwi refuses to follow (aesthetics/xp enhancers/Coin gain modifiers for ks and everything related to gear/competitive play into the f2p/open market). For reference see the T.T. gear b4 rank one, or even rank if GST+Medal/refine+shards were farmable realistically.0 -
Hands down the most rediculous request ever...gg b:thanks0
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While it's a little early to fix this now. If inflation continues unchecked eventually noone will ever sell gold in the AH anymore. You'll just see 300 buy orders for gold at 4m that continuously expire without anyone buying them.[sigpic][/sigpic]
PWI Calculators - aster.ohmydays.net/pw0 -
Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »There is a gold cap of 4m b:shocked? I never knew that. i thought there was no cap on selling gold.
I didn't know that either.0 -
Gold prices are so high because no one really plays this game much anymore, so less people buy gold, so less of it exists to sell. People will not sell gold at 4m regardless of if the cap exists or not; if PW wants to charge 10293810982301938 gold for R9, sorry, but it's going to be in high demand, regardless of the supply.
Blame the system, not the players. An artificial gold cap just means people will eventually sell boutique items themselves instead of selling gold, and anyone dumb enough to put gold in the AH will be losing out.
(subnote, I don't sell gold, but it's just basic logic)The 3 fundamental F's of Perfect World are "Fun, Fast, and Free."
You may pick two.0 -
Let's not forget that doing anything to gold caps will do nothing, precisely nothing, about inflation. The OP's argument was that billions of coins are coming in per day which fuels inflation. Fine, fair enough. But AH gold is not a coin sink. You're just moving that coin around to the gold sellers.
So at best, this idea is misguided and at worst, it's a poorly-disguised plan to make gold merchants richer for no adequate reason.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »You make me lol a bit Joe. As i said no price limit is going to curb the forces of supply and demand (instead the AH would no longer be used, people would only sell boutique items instead, or you would have to pay the Gold seller to put it in the AH so you can get it out, leading to all kind of scam options)
You are an R9 APS barb like me. we can tank 3-3 steelation even when it goes APS, we go afk to take a **** while we F12 emperor, GBA or illusion lord. We can get 15m per hour out of TT3-3 on average during 2x. If you want to make life for the starting player easier, youre gonna have to fix that inequality for them. As long as we are so vastly more efficient at farming then they are, they will always have to spend many hours to get what we get in 15 minutes. That is how markets work. On top of that, we play a long time and built up substantial wealth allowing us to make 100s of millions a month just from merchanting. These are the sources of the problem, this causes all the wealth to stream upwards, from the beginning player to us. the gold price is just one of the variables in this whole system that makes their life a misery but absolutely not the cause.
That said, more coin sinks to reduce inflation would not be a bad thing imo. But thinking there is anything good about the 4m gold limit is rather stupid. It is like saying a bread may not be sold for more than 0.50$ People would just stop baking bread and we'd all have to do without it unless you buy it on the black market for an even higher price than it would have costed in the first place.
Are you comparing a bread that is something necesary for a ppl in real life with something fictional like a gold in a fantasy game? A lot of ppl quit the game cause of the prices and more will do so if the gold price will reach 10mil each. Ppl wont stop buying bread no matter the prices of it cause bread is food and we need food to live. A game is not something necesary , it doesnt affect our life even if we play it or not. Ppl can quit a game for other one.They cant quit real life.0 -
x10000 => Absofugginlutely down with the cap to 2 million coin per gold. And then leave it the hell alone. Supply and Demand do not determine the prices we are seeing, or the prices we would see if the current cap is raised. GREED is the primary reason for current prices.Joe - Morai wrote: »Seriously? Are you really serious? If so, please remove yourself from this game/forum, w/e. Even with the current situation of things...a Gold price over 2m is never fair and only appears due to massive greed from the community.
Instead put down the cap to 2m coins. PPL will still charge as they would be way too lazy to farm stuff and setting up effective bots isnt for free as well. Calculate in the energy costs and the management you need for bots.
Anyways...that is the heaviest troll I have ever seen on this forums for the past 5 years...and that means something.
3,5m coins are an average 10 hours of botting w/o x2. Its more then fair to get at least 1 gold for this.
"Supply and Demand determines prices" <= Fails to realize that even in the real world, governments set caps for a reason. b:shutup[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
bloodedone87 wrote: »Are you comparing a bread that is something necesary for a ppl in real life with something fictional like a gold in a fantasy game? A lot of ppl quit the game cause of the prices and more will do so if the gold price will reach 10mil each. Ppl wont stop buying bread no matter the prices of it cause bread is food and we need food to live. A game is not something necesary , it doesnt affect our life even if we play it or not. Ppl can quit a game for other one.They cant quit real life.
Christ, is it so hard to understand the truth ?Let's not forget that doing anything to gold caps will do nothing, precisely nothing, about inflation. The OP's argument was that billions of coins are coming in per day which fuels inflation. Fine, fair enough. But AH gold is not a coin sink. You're just moving that coin around to the gold sellers.
So at best, this idea is misguided and at worst, it's a poorly-disguised plan to make gold merchants richer for no adequate reason.
This see, 1 person who got an IQ over 50. It is unbelievable that so many people fail to understand this and think that a cap on AH can do anything positive. I had never had high expectations of my fellow humans, but the amount of stupidity displayed in this thread amazes me, even after witnessing stupidy for 34 years now....Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0 -
I rarely post but this is so absurd to not say something.
the cap needs to be 2 mil or even 2.5 not 4 and hell to the no lifted to 6+
To really fix the game (if it can be) requires 3 things
1) renewed interest (cash coming in) from new players
2) the Devs and other powers that be listening to us about what we (constructively) want
3) more chances to farm or otherwise create stuff and less need for merchanting/cashing thereby reducing greed.
I would rather go NW and get my R9??? than farm TT for mats to sell but thats me
others have soloed TTs and made good $$ and got their R9???
the same way that NW allowed everyone to get G15 and now G16 (prices went down and temporarily brought something to mind other than greed.0 -
WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »(instead the AH would no longer be used, people would only sell boutique items instead, or you would have to pay the Gold seller to put it in the AH so you can get it out, leading to all kind of scam options)
I can confirm this is basically what will happen eventually. It's happened on other versions already. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I
Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
Greed applies to both sides of the debate, those who want more gold for their coins and those who want more coins for their gold. It's what drives markets, supply and demand.
The only way for a cap to be applied to the gold market that wouldn't make it non-functional when inflation drives the market to that cap, is to have some way to buy gold from an NPC at the cap price. That isn't going to happen, so what needs to be done is one (or more) of the following:
1) Attract more cash shopping players who will sell gold on the market. (Increase gold supply.) That would involve actually marketing this game more though, and PWE seems loathe to do that.
2) Create more attractive coin sinks so the available coin is reduced. (Reducing coin supply will reduce demand for gold, and this would also increase demand for coins, enticing more cash shoppers to sell their gold rather than buy boutique items with it.) My suggestion (posted in other threads) of having an NPC selling tokens of luck for somewhat over 10k would help here. (12-15k would I think be a good price point for tokens.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
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Uh, well... see, the thing of that is, I never said that I support a removal of gold price caps. All I said was that the OP's argument for raising the caps was BS, because it is. You can sing the praises of free-market economics all you want, but in a virtual economy it all comes down to what will keep players coming back. And the fact is, the F2P demographic is larger than the P2P one, and the gold trading system is becoming more and more inaccessible to them. Raising or removing the gold cap is about the worst thing they could do.WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
This see, 1 person who got an IQ over 50. It is unbelievable that so many people fail to understand this and think that a cap on AH can do anything positive. I had never had high expectations of my fellow humans, but the amount of stupidity displayed in this thread amazes me, even after witnessing stupidy for 34 years now....
One would think that with your fancy 34-year Doctorate in Stupidity Studies, you would think not to assume things. ;][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
I used to sell gold all the time some years ago.. and that was way before gold prices were 500k coins. And I was playing when it was 300k. Some of you folks been around when it was barely 100k. My how the mighty as risen(yeah).
So it seems to stop selling gold does not help the economy..0 -
Gold price cap in AH has been raised before, from 1 million to the current 4 million coins. At the time it didn't affect us (our prices were around 400k per gold at the time I believe), but it was reported that PW-MY (and possibly China) had a disfunctional gold market, with all gold transactions taking place in WC.
We could be headed there.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
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Out of curiosity, what was dysfunctional about it? What X-factor would it favorable to gold sellers to conduct their business in WC at significantly less than AH prices?Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Gold price cap in AH has been raised before, from 1 million to the current 4 million coins. At the time it didn't affect us (our prices were around 400k per gold at the time I believe), but it was reported that PW-MY (and possibly China) had a disfunctional gold market, with all gold transactions taking place in WC.
We could be headed there.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
PWI's gold markets were not dysfunctional at the time, since gold prices were significantly below the cap.
PW-MY's gold prices were over the cap, so the gold market was empty (and thus dysfunctional) and gold sellers were selling gold through WC... in effect, functioning as private merchants to the gold buyers, buying items from the boutique to order, and selling them to the buyer at over gold market cap prices.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
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Well if that's really the case on Sanctuary, then I'd say stick a fork in Sanctuary's economy because it's done. The gold trading system is the greatest asset that F2P players have in this game, but nobody is going to tolerate 10mil gold. At some point, the static coin demands of the rest of the game are going to put gold price so far out of sync that it'll be completely ridiculous to keep up with it, no matter how much inflation there is.Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »PWI's gold markets were not dysfunctional at the time, since gold prices were significantly below the cap.
PW-MY's gold prices were over the cap, so the gold market was empty (and thus dysfunctional) and gold sellers were selling gold through WC... in effect, functioning as private merchants to the gold buyers, buying items from the boutique to order, and selling them to the buyer at over gold market cap prices.
It's around 2.5-2.7mil on HT these days, and that's already way too much for me. I've gotten the occasional utility item (storage expansions, etc.) from the CS with actual money, and everything else I can either obtain in-game or get reasonably from the event boutique. I suspect a fair portion of the F2P community acts in a similar manner. But I never buy gold from players anymore, and people selling gold for 10.5mil in WC isn't going to change that.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
i not play in sanc but i think could be fair to high level but for new player very unfair, make them impossible to buy gold even more than with 3mil
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Here is what i noticed on sanctuary. By 450 gold at 2.7m per gold. Make 500m profit (major profit right?). Buy gold at 3.3m~3.4m. How much gold do you get? 450 ish gold.
My problem is that in farming, the vlaue has not risen. Gold mats = 6~10m from lunar or tt. Gold price has gone up from 1.2m~1.4m to 2.8~3.2m. That essentially comes out that now to get the same amount of gold, you need to farm twice as much as before. If gold keeps on rising, farming becomes a no go. People can get chips and chip items. That said, people still buy items for 12~14m that can be chipped at 9~10m, so not sure what is happening there b:shocked.
I'll just wait and see what happens.0 -
Jaabg - Sanctuary wrote: »Here is what i noticed on sanctuary. By 450 gold at 2.7m per gold. Make 500m profit (major profit right?). Buy gold at 3.3m~3.4m. How much gold do you get? 450 ish gold.
My problem is that in farming, the vlaue has not risen. Gold mats = 6~10m from lunar or tt. Gold price has gone up from 1.2m~1.4m to 2.8~3.2m. That essentially comes out that now to get the same amount of gold, you need to farm twice as much as before. If gold keeps on rising, farming becomes a no go. People can get chips and chip items. That said, people still buy items for 12~14m that can be chipped at 9~10m, so not sure what is happening there b:shocked.
I'll just wait and see what happens.
In merching i notice other merchants dont always seem to grasp this. They buy gold for 2.5 for example before it is sale. Then during the sale gold goes up to 3 and they sell the stuff that is on sale for an effective gold price of 3. They think they make a profit while they dont really. That is anoying because you can compete against people who sell for cost price.... Fortunately it doesnt happen too often, i guess they either learn after doing that once or they decide merchanting doesnt work and they quit
I always value everything in relation to the current gold price and i try never to own coins for long, keeping all the value in either gold or merchandise.
The farming indeed goes down effectively. Even though an illusion stone does 12m now vs 10m a year ago. Yes, that 12m is less gold. But even with a stable gold price, i think it would be similar. Probably if gold hadnt risen during this year, the illusion stone would be worth 8m now simply because so many more people are able to farm it. And they do it faster also with all the OP rebirth toons.Everything i write is from PvE perspective unless mentioned otherwise.0
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