Two Questions for pwi veterans!

Man - Raging Tide wrote: »

What do you think pwi is balanced around? for example

squad vs squad combat

1 vs 1 combat

PvE

80 vs 80 TW


And my next question is what should pwi classes be balanced around?

LostPoet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've played a cleric and yes. you can beat sins. you got purify weapon + stacking heals and wings if protections / plume shell. and if your complaining about disables. idk why you don't have expel or fortify or base of courage or faith on your genie. and if you do, you must not be balancing your genie use wisely.

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

ok, we just gonna gloss over what was said earlier: [use sign language] the cd's are too fast for all the disables. if you can keep up with a sin's cc on your genie, then that sin is worse than me on mine. or maybe just better than you.

tsyfall wrote: »

And for all your talk and logic, you never once question your own competence and skill. Another sin might be better than you, or someone else sucks, but you never consider the possibility that the problem lies partially in your own ineptitude?

Toraah is arguably the best sin on Archo, but I assure you, you aren't the best EP. i remember beating you when you had R9 +12 JOSD and I was an aps +6 sin. It is logical that you would lose. It is not logical to advocate for a rebalance based on your own incompetence.

I've seen the videos of 1v1s. Not impressed.

SerahLight - Archosaur wrote: »

o.o... Well, Tsy told me to reply so I suppose I should. I personally do not use Faith nor Fortify on a sin, one being because I don't have Faith, and the other is I still have trouble timing sins (because every sin times stuns differently). Though, I do use AD and Expel out of everything against a sin.

Toraah is, in my opinion the best sin I've 1v1'd. Also, I have beaten him before, not because he's simply "gone" easy on me. If you claim he goes easy on me... He's beaten me before out of like what, 3/5 games I assume. So he doesn't 'suck' or perhaps by what you say, "Go Easy On Serah" and perhaps change your way of thinking in 1v1/PK.

Most clerics even myself would use the SoG/sleep combo in 1v1's. It's a waste to just 'sleep and then attack' without even beginning debuffs, unless obviously you hit hard enough, or some ****. I do believe cleric is overpowered out of most classes aside Barbs. Cleric's can just seal lock someone to death. (You can ask some people on our server who NW ;p.) So cleric's 'don't suck'. You should perhaps change your pk style. Also Auer, I have defeated iseekeri and Asceia before. So has Saiorexey. Perhaps you should again, repeating, change your pk style.

As for mass PK, I am not one to metal mage. (mainly because my damage is a lot lower than a certain cleric on our server, and my Phys. Def surpasses her and I can tank better than attack in mass) So I wouldn't know about that.

Cleric's DO NOT suck at PK, though I do admit we -sort of- got eff'd over with the update and such, having only one DD skill updated and everything else was heals (Even though I understand we're a support class.)

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He doesn't need to be a factor on PWI to prove his point.

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Switching from "non factor sin" to "non factor in this conversation"?

Perhaps you should heed your own advice, since last I checked, calling people non factor doesn't contribute anything.

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

you sir are a liar, that never happened [unless you count when i went afk, so if that is your reference then not only are you a liar, you are also pretty sad]. the video was not meant to impress, it was meant to demonstrate a point, so trolling me won't get you anywhere. it's okay i get it, you spent so much time on your sin and can't afford to r9 another toon. no shame in that. but be fair, think of all the others who did the exact same thing on a non tb, archer or seeker or barb. you are a non factor and quite frankly attacking me on here for notoriety's sake [which i presume is your reason for spitting trash] won't make you popular. being the person i first met willl. i dunno who you are or why you are using tsyren's toons but whatever. next...

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

sasu come back to archo pls

we no use nonfactor leads here

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

sasu come back to archo pls

we no use nonfactor leads here

Toraah - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah, Jark will even fund r9 for you!

tsyfall wrote: »

tl;dr: Auerlius doesn't realize that he's losing in part because he sucks. (With citations).

Okay, I'll bite.


Hello. My name is Tsyren, former resident of Archosaur server, former G16+5 APS assassin, writer of the year-old yet still only viable Assassin PvP guide on PWInternational forums, &ca, now residing at an undisclosed location that can be found on my Youtube channel.

Pleased to meet you.


Unlike you, I base my arrogance on what I can do, not what I can say. And I am here, not to say things to make myself popular (since no one remembers me anyways, and thus I have no reputation to protect) but to enlighten you to the truth, which has long been forthcoming.

This truth is fairly simple: While you claim that problems exist with the Assassin class, a fair amount of these problems reside within yourself. You accuse the PW developers of being unfair, your fellow servermates of "going easy", myself of being a nonfactor, etc.

I am here to accuse you of being, at least partially, the root of your own problems. No one else apparently is impolite enough as I am to deliver this message; thus I speak to you with both disappointment and snide glee.
(Please keep in mind that, no matter how arrogant I sound, arrogance does not make true statement false.)

Now, I'll start by refuting your posts on the last page.


This alone reveals your ignorance. There is a reason Toraah didn't use the same seal combo versus SerahLight, and Serah said it herself:

Key world: Expel.

Seal combo is much less effective versus an Expel cleric, because a cleric can chain Expel into Throatcut without warning, which can royally mess with any plans the sin may has had: An attempt to stun the cleric either results in Purify procing (Condensed Thorn) or wasted Shadow Teleport (a 3 minute cooldown).

However, you claim that Toraah "went easy" on SerahLight. You blame your opponent instead of blaming yourself. You do not recognize your own mistakes - but do not worry. That is why I am here.

Continuing on:

I guess that your War Avatar Cards aren't as good as SerahLight's. And yet, according to SerahLight:

Your gear is "R9R3 +12 JosD, all NW items" and "full B cards"
Hers is "r9r3 +11 Garnet (70+ Pdef) w/ r9r3 +12 Wep Icebourne, +10 g16 hat (Garnet +85) AEU Robe, +11 Garnet (70+pdef), NW Ring +11 (Stars Destiny), r9r ring +10, Dominance Tome" and "3 A cards, 2 S cards, 1 B card"

Seems to me like you have better gear. +12, JosD, and full NW kinda outweigh the difference in War Avatar Cards.

Most of your argument stems from your own self-assured ethos, your credibility. You assume that if you are a good cleric, then if you get owned, there must be something wrong. However, we see that SerahLight didn't get owned (you admitted it yourself, claiming that Toraah went easy on her).

Cleric 1: Superior Gear -> Defeat
Cleric 2: Lesser Gear -> Victory

We can then conclude that Cleric 2, SerahLight, is better than you are. Therefore, you can't be a good cleric -- and thus, your arguments have far less weight than you indignantly seem to expect.

But wait, Tsyren! You're still a non-factor. Your arguments make no sense!

Let's review really quick:

1. PWI PvP balance is when people of equal skill can defeat each other relatively equally.
2. You assume that you are of equal skill to Toraah.
3. You are defeated easily.
4. Thus, PWI PvP is unbalanced.

My refutation:

1. A cleric with comparable skill to Toraah with worse gear performed better than you did.
2. By direct comparison, you are worse than Toraah.
3. It is therefore expected that you should lose more than you win.
4. You are too arrogant to realize this without someone to point it out.

But wait, Tsyren! I don't care about me. This is about game balance!

Fine. Let's define a balanced game: Where two classes can kill each other at a relatively equal rate, given that the two players have equal skill.

From this, we can conclude that a person with less skill will lose more. This matches your situation.
From this, we can conclude a person who makes more mistakes will lose more (less skill = more mistakes). This matches your situation.

Now let's examine your situation.
TsyBot, analyze Auerlius' situation and commentate on it!

-

TsyBot has finished analyzing the 1v1: Auerlius v Toraah (link to video)!


(0:34) You waste Plume Shell before the sin is even in range. Thus, you waste the next 20 seconds of your anti-melee shield. You could have instead used the shield when he teleported next to you; you would have enough time and have enough -Channeling Time to use the skill, while ensuring that it was wisely used.

(0:43) You continue to chase Toraah even though he used Windpush, a skill that makes you unable to catch him except with Charger Orb, Shadow Binder Orb, or Holy Path, all of which would be too costly. You could have gained more chi during this time to make up for your waste of Plume Shell.

(0:46) You waste Fortify even though Plume Shell lasts up to 0:53. You could have tanked all damage from a Shadow Teleport and a followup seal combo; instead, you just get telestunned 0:58 anyways, thus wasting 55 genie energy.

(1:06) You waste time (not chi, since you're demon) on a self-Purify on a freeze that you simply could have run away from, as Elimination's freeze only lasts for 3 seconds, which is actually shorter than Throatcut's duration.

(1:13) You randomly stop running after you get sealed. Running would have wasted Toraah's seal and 100 chi of his. Instead, you just make it infinitely easier for him to catch you at 1:15.

(1:32) You use Ironguard without Fortify to "save yourself" even though Toraah's seal, sleep, and stun are all on cooldown. Self-purify would have had the same effect for zero cost.

(1:42) You decide to use Plume Shell instead of sleeping Toraah immediately after Ironguard ended. Chromatic Seal would have let you go offensive. Instead, you waste an opportunity to debuff and possibly kill Toraah.

(1:45) You self-Purify for no reason; you had no debuffs on. This means you lose time which could be used to run and gain distance.

(1:51) You use Seal of the God, a seal skill, on Toraah, who just used Will Surge. Will Surge blocks all seals. You wasted 1-spark and 15 seconds of debuff time. There was plenty of time to react and decide to not use Seal of the God (about 1.5 seconds).

(2:11) You fail to self-Purify at 2:12, which means you get set-up for a kill combo.

(2:25) You attempt to use anti-heal and Mark of Weakness debuffs on a sin with Tidal Protection that was running away. Trying for Chromatic Seal or Silent Seal would have been more effective because it would give you the ability to control the sin.

(2:35) You fail to self-Purify because you don't react fast enough, even though with R9 -Channeling Time, self-Purifying freeze is possible before Deep Sting sleep lands.

(2:43) You use Expel before Throatcut even hits. Throatcut would not have had enough damage to kill you; this is obvious because Toraah used Single Spark as opposed to Double Spark without using Extreme Poison or Tangling Mire (Single Spark is recognizable because there is no Immunity animation). This means that while you are physically immune to damage, you are still sealed for the full duration of Expel, whereas if you had used Expel after Throatcut, you would have had 4 seconds of seal to deal with, while still having 8 seconds of physical immunity. This would have let you go offensive.

(3:44) You use Badge of Courage to remove the stun from Shadow Teleport. This was unnecessary; you still had Plume Shell for a while longer and would have been easily able to tank. Instead, you waste your genie and get sealed immediately afterwards.

(3:51) You wasted both Expel and Badge of Courage previously. You have no genie left to Fortify the obviously incoming Headhunt, and since you used Badge of Courage earlier unnecessarily, you cannot use it now when you actually need it.

(3:54) You die. End 1v1.

This took me 3:57 minutes to finish.

-

Summary of the fight: You're making basic mistakes which waste your chi, you're making efficiency mistakes which prevent you from going offensive, and you're making strategical mistakes (using Badge of Courage for telestun) which ultimately cost you the fight.

You are the root of the problem. Not assassins.

My advice to you:

porphy wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for being a try-hard at arguing people.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for putting this guy in his place. He knows now...

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 10 points for doing something that I've often considered doing, but didn't bother to waste the time on.