Two Questions for pwi veterans!

Auerlius - Archosaur

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Chart?

they recently did an explanation on the web site news of how pvp work s like a rock scissor paper sorta deal to try and cover up how unbalanced things are. they ***'d up their own system.

LostPoet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Clearly you don't kite enough then. tidal will either be 50% or 66%. Clerics have atleast 3 disables of which probability says, you'll get 1 through usually. If you don't no big deal, just plume shell / wings of protection and stack heals and kite.

Pop the AoE absorbing array if they get close; that skill will heal you as well (if your in UV).

All you need is for SoG or Sleep to go off once. Just ONCE! through tidal or when tidal is in the 30 seconds of cooldown phase.

stacking debuffs + array. Mark of weakness through sleep. GG.
then, when the disable wears off, pop off magic shackle before they use tidal and try to get offensive on you.

And with a cleric, probably better off with a defensive genie with maybe EP on it. Will greatly increase your chance to survive long enough to kill the sin.


If you can kite / survive for some time.... killing a sin, for clerics is not too hard.

um you forget about the sin spamming silence then sleep and then elimination lifehuter combo. the resources availbke cant keep up with the current cc skillset of sins. with tidal the debuffs and cc you spit out rarely land and the sin risks nothing really. if it fails just stealth and do it again. and even if i get the debuffs sog and all that off, the current increase in tankiness means it is unlikely a end game sin [in sensible hands] will ever be brought down by anything except a barb [or highly skilled seeker].

LostPoet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thanks Sylen for agreeing. I don't play cleric much on PWI. Especially not for PvP here, but i know the mechanics so thanks for backing up what I'm saying.

As for the first attack*, well its usually the same for all classes. When you start a 1v1 fight, everything is available, all Apoth and chi and what not. So surviving the first attacks from any class is most important. If a wizard crits or a archer crits or a sin crits, there's not much you can do anyways to survive the initial blows.

Kiting = victory (pretty much)

play a cleric, until you do all your talk is theoretical. i have played a sin, and stopped gearing it up at 2r9. i can beat clerics who i freely admit are better at playing a cleric than i am at a sin. before i could not, after this update, now if i run that silly op combo, they have no chance. silence/sleep spam till you can stun into elimination and lifehunter ftw. if one combo can keep killing pro players when i am a practiced [but not pro] sin then that is ridiculous.

Monoftalmus - Heavens Tear

Man - Raging Tide wrote: »

What do you think pwi is balanced around? for example

squad vs squad combat

1 vs 1 combat

PvE

80 vs 80 TW


And my next question is what should pwi classes be balanced around?

Id love to see mount battle format, thats what PWI is missing for years now rawr


1 - Phy aoes should not miss just have dmg reduction span, magic attack should have a chance to be resisted as it never misses - Melee classes should have 50% chance to not be stunned/freezes slept coz they have no range in a lag environment

Mages should deff be adjusted faster and with a speed skill

2 - PVE? - just an overhaul and more grinding areas or leveling ones, best exp MUST come from GOOD OLL grinding and killing manually not booting or doing instances.

3 - Just alot of things, gates 1st, 2nd no flying over walls, 3rd, crystal should be inside an instance of castle where environment is like in fb rather than in open why? - no flying + ability to defend in narrow passes rather than open ground if ur way under powered guild.

Also, catapults should be bigger and slower, they can def work on animations more and do more effort to reduce the lag.

LostPoet - Dreamweaver

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

they recently did an explanation on the web site news of how pvp work s like a rock scissor paper sorta deal to try and cover up how unbalanced things are. they ***'d up their own system.



um you forget about the sin spamming silence then sleep and then elimination lifehuter combo. the resources availbke cant keep up with the current cc skillset of sins. with tidal the debuffs and cc you spit out rarely land and the sin risks nothing really. if it fails just stealth and do it again. and even if i get the debuffs sog and all that off, the current increase in tankiness means it is unlikely a end game sin [in sensible hands] will ever be brought down by anything except a barb [or highly skilled seeker].


play a cleric, until you do all your talk is theoretical. i have played a sin, and stopped gearing it up at 2r9. i can beat clerics who i freely admit are better at playing a cleric than i am at a sin. before i could not, after this update, now if i run that silly op combo, they have no chance. silence/sleep spam till you can stun into elimination and lifehunter ftw. if one combo can keep killing pro players when i am a practiced [but not pro] sin then that is ridiculous.

I've played a cleric and yes. you can beat sins. you got purify weapon + stacking heals and wings if protections / plume shell. and if your complaining about disables. idk why you don't have expel or fortify or base of courage or faith on your genie. and if you do, you must not be balancing your genie use wisely.

Auerlius - Archosaur

LostPoet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've played a cleric and yes. you can beat sins. you got purify weapon + stacking heals and wings if protections / plume shell. and if your complaining about disables. idk why you don't have expel or fortify or base of courage or faith on your genie. and if you do, you must not be balancing your genie use wisely.

ok, we just gonna gloss over what was said earlier: [use sign language] the cd's are too fast for all the disables. if you can keep up with a sin's cc on your genie, then that sin is worse than me on mine. or maybe just better than you.

Zanryu - Lothranis

LostPoet - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And props to Zanryu for teaching me cleric mechanics!!!!! b:bye

You the best! b:laugh

Wait what?

tsyfall

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

ok, we just gonna gloss over what was said earlier: [use sign language] the cd's are too fast for all the disables. if you can keep up with a sin's cc on your genie, then that sin is worse than me on mine. or maybe just better than you.

And for all your talk and logic, you never once question your own competence and skill. Another sin might be better than you, or someone else sucks, but you never consider the possibility that the problem lies partially in your own ineptitude?

Toraah is arguably the best sin on Archo, but I assure you, you aren't the best EP. i remember beating you when you had R9 +12 JOSD and I was an aps +6 sin. It is logical that you would lose. It is not logical to advocate for a rebalance based on your own incompetence.

I've seen the videos of 1v1s. Not impressed.

SerahLight - Archosaur

o.o... Well, Tsy told me to reply so I suppose I should. I personally do not use Faith nor Fortify on a sin, one being because I don't have Faith, and the other is I still have trouble timing sins (because every sin times stuns differently). Though, I do use AD and Expel out of everything against a sin.

Toraah is, in my opinion the best sin I've 1v1'd. Also, I have beaten him before, not because he's simply "gone" easy on me. If you claim he goes easy on me... He's beaten me before out of like what, 3/5 games I assume. So he doesn't 'suck' or perhaps by what you say, "Go Easy On Serah" and perhaps change your way of thinking in 1v1/PK.

Most clerics even myself would use the SoG/sleep combo in 1v1's. It's a waste to just 'sleep and then attack' without even beginning debuffs, unless obviously you hit hard enough, or some ****. I do believe cleric is overpowered out of most classes aside Barbs. Cleric's can just seal lock someone to death. (You can ask some people on our server who NW ;p.) So cleric's 'don't suck'. You should perhaps change your pk style. Also Auer, I have defeated iseekeri and Asceia before. So has Saiorexey. Perhaps you should again, repeating, change your pk style.

As for mass PK, I am not one to metal mage. (mainly because my damage is a lot lower than a certain cleric on our server, and my Phys. Def surpasses her and I can tank better than attack in mass) So I wouldn't know about that.

Cleric's DO NOT suck at PK, though I do admit we -sort of- got eff'd over with the update and such, having only one DD skill updated and everything else was heals (Even though I understand we're a support class.)

Auerlius - Archosaur

tsyfall wrote: »

And for all your talk and logic, you never once question your own competence and skill. Another sin might be better than you, or someone else sucks, but you never consider the possibility that the problem lies partially in your own ineptitude?

Toraah is arguably the best sin on Archo, but I assure you, you aren't the best EP. i remember beating you when you had R9 +12 JOSD and I was an aps +6 sin. It is logical that you would lose. It is not logical to advocate for a rebalance based on your own incompetence.

I've seen the videos of 1v1s. Not impressed.

you sir are a liar, that never happened [unless you count when i went afk, so if that is your reference then not only are you a liar, you are also pretty sad]. the video was not meant to impress, it was meant to demonstrate a point, so trolling me won't get you anywhere. it's okay i get it, you spent so much time on your sin and can't afford to r9 another toon. no shame in that. but be fair, think of all the others who did the exact same thing on a non tb, archer or seeker or barb. you are a non factor and quite frankly attacking me on here for notoriety's sake [which i presume is your reason for spitting trash] won't make you popular. being the person i first met willl. i dunno who you are or why you are using tsyren's toons but whatever. next...

SerahLight - Archosaur wrote: »

o.o... Well, Tsy told me to reply so I suppose I should. I personally do not use Faith nor Fortify on a sin, one being because I don't have Faith, and the other is I still have trouble timing sins (because every sin times stuns differently). Though, I do use AD and Expel out of everything against a sin.

Toraah is, in my opinion the best sin I've 1v1'd. Also, I have beaten him before, not because he's simply "gone" easy on me. If you claim he goes easy on me... He's beaten me before out of like what, 3/5 games I assume. So he doesn't 'suck' or perhaps by what you say, "Go Easy On Serah" and perhaps change your way of thinking in 1v1/PK.

Most clerics even myself would use the SoG/sleep combo in 1v1's. It's a waste to just 'sleep and then attack' without even beginning debuffs, unless obviously you hit hard enough, or some ****. I do believe cleric is overpowered out of most classes aside Barbs. Cleric's can just seal lock someone to death. (You can ask some people on our server who NW ;p.) So cleric's 'don't suck'. You should perhaps change your pk style. Also Auer, I have defeated iseekeri and Asceia before. So has Saiorexey. Perhaps you should again, repeating, change your pk style.

As for mass PK, I am not one to metal mage. (mainly because my damage is a lot lower than a certain cleric on our server, and my Phys. Def surpasses her and I can tank better than attack in mass) So I wouldn't know about that.

Cleric's DO NOT suck at PK, though I do admit we -sort of- got eff'd over with the update and such, having only one DD skill updated and everything else was heals (Even though I understand we're a support class.)

i never said toraah sucked. what i said was he went easy on you. he did not do the silence spam to you he normally does to me, and let's face it my cards are not as up to par as yours or toraah. i have beaten toraah [once] and iseekeri [post primal updates]. idc about who i beat or beats me. i care about game mechanics and all toons having a chance. tsyren is a non factor so whereas i am grateful for him spurring you to post, anything he has to say from here on in, based on how he started this convo, will be ignored.

now back to the issue......

it is not just in this post, or in this thread. other people from other servers see it, it's is even on some of the chinese servers now. a cleric cant beat a barb, rock cant beat scissors, and sin's a retardely stupid broken again. as a sage cleric your survivalilty is already higher than mine, but factor in a rapid hit skill that actually gives chi and retains the ability to be crits and zerks, charm tick bypass, redunkculous damage, super resist, and now all and imp defense, i have listened to the advice i have gotten here and changed a few things. but that still doesn't change the fact that the game is hideously unbalanced now. if you don't believe me alone look elsewhere. even toraah had to admit the skillset is way overpowered now.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

you sir are a liar, that never happened. the video were not meant to impress, the were meant to demonstrate a point, so trolling me won't get you anywhere. you are a non factor sin and quite frankly attacking me on here for notoriety's sake [which i presume is your reason for spitting trash] won't make you popular. being the person i first met willl. i dunno who you are or why you are using tsyren's toons but whatever. next...

He doesn't need to be a factor on PWI to prove his point.

Auerlius - Archosaur

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He doesn't need to be a factor on PWI to prove his point.

no but telling the truth goes a long way. and i am referring to him being a factor in this conversation. troll elsewhere please if you have nothing to contribute.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

no but telling the truth goes a long way. and i am referring to him being a factor in this conversation. troll elsewhere please if you have nothing to contribute.

Switching from "non factor sin" to "non factor in this conversation"?

Perhaps you should heed your own advice, since last I checked, calling people non factor doesn't contribute anything.

Auerlius - Archosaur

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Switching from "non factor sin" to "non factor in this conversation"?

Perhaps you should heed your own advice, since last I checked, calling people non factor doesn't contribute anything.

maybe if you read his post you would see why i took the tone to exclude him from this discussion. ty.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

maybe if you read his post you would see why i took the tone to exclude him from this discussion. ty.

I don't

Toraah - Archosaur

Full GG imo

Jarkhen - Archosaur

This thread makes me sad.

Toraah - Archosaur

Auer, I'm just going to go right out and say it. Every single time you've been told you're wrong, you come up with excuses to try prove you're right. After going on a campaign to prove sins are extremely overpowered and broken and can't be beat, I lost to a cleric who is less geared than you. After claiming that "I went easy on her" not only did you show that you pulled any excuse out of your *** to try prove you're right, but you also lost what respect I had for you. I do agree that certain new skills are broken and overpowered, and requires a nerf, but there are those that have found ways to get around them.

Instead of looking at everything around you and calling it broken, perhaps you should instead look at yourself, because everyone else can see, what you apparently cannot, or maybe you can and you're just trying to deny it, that you're wrong.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

I have one thing to say about this thread before I leave it behind/ignore it.

Gear compensates way entirely too well for a lack of skill/preparation. Its sad that nw has such great rewards, and can be so easily manhandled by those who are in epic gear/the right proc. Even more so for mass pvp, if your undergeared, and being attacked from every which way expect to die, regardless of gear/preparations, eventually even the apo/charm will be used up, allowing you to be killed by someone, hell you will even be a one shot if your gear isn't able to cope with the stronger attacks of your attacker.

This essentially does raise the question where do they balance things out? Especially when even the undergeared/un-leveled people wish to participate in a place like nw? As they are very much every bit a part of this game as the ones who did spend real cash on the game/merchant-ed their way up. After all if you continue to step on the weak, they can and will leave, especially if they can't find a way to gear up/stand up to the strong.

---

I am sure most of you realize that already, but meh there it is regardless.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

you sir are a liar, that never happened [unless you count when i went afk, so if that is your reference then not only are you a liar, you are also pretty sad]. the video was not meant to impress, it was meant to demonstrate a point, so trolling me won't get you anywhere. it's okay i get it, you spent so much time on your sin and can't afford to r9 another toon. no shame in that. but be fair, think of all the others who did the exact same thing on a non tb, archer or seeker or barb. you are a non factor and quite frankly attacking me on here for notoriety's sake [which i presume is your reason for spitting trash] won't make you popular. being the person i first met willl. i dunno who you are or why you are using tsyren's toons but whatever. next...

omg y noob tsyren lead my pk squads when the pro pwi players say he is non factor thx 4 bringing into light i never listen to him again thx b:byeb:byeb:bye

Jarkhen - Archosaur

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

omg y noob tsyren lead my pk squads when the pro pwi players say he is non factor thx 4 bringing into light i never listen to him again thx b:byeb:byeb:bye

sasu come back to archo pls

we no use nonfactor leads here

Toraah - Archosaur

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

sasu come back to archo pls

we no use nonfactor leads here

Yeah, Jark will even fund r9 for you!

tsyfall

tl;dr: Auerlius doesn't realize that he's losing in part because he sucks. (With citations).

Okay, I'll bite.

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

i dunno who you are or why you are using tsyren's toons but whatever. next...

Hello. My name is Tsyren, former resident of Archosaur server, former G16+5 APS assassin, writer of the year-old yet still only viable Assassin PvP guide on PWInternational forums, &ca, now residing at an undisclosed location that can be found on my Youtube channel.

Pleased to meet you.

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

attacking me on here for notoriety's sake [which i presume is your reason for spitting trash] won't make you popular.

Unlike you, I base my arrogance on what I can do, not what I can say. And I am here, not to say things to make myself popular (since no one remembers me anyways, and thus I have no reputation to protect) but to enlighten you to the truth, which has long been forthcoming.

This truth is fairly simple: While you claim that problems exist with the Assassin class, a fair amount of these problems reside within yourself. You accuse the PW developers of being unfair, your fellow servermates of "going easy", myself of being a nonfactor, etc.

I am here to accuse you of being, at least partially, the root of your own problems. No one else apparently is impolite enough as I am to deliver this message; thus I speak to you with both disappointment and snide glee.
(Please keep in mind that, no matter how arrogant I sound, arrogance does not make true statement false.)

Now, I'll start by refuting your posts on the last page.

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

i never said toraah sucked. what i said was he went easy on you. he did not do the silence spam to you he normally does to me, and let's face it my cards are not as up to par as yours or toraah.

This alone reveals your ignorance. There is a reason Toraah didn't use the same seal combo versus SerahLight, and Serah said it herself:

SerahLight - Archosaur wrote: »

I do use AD and Expel out of everything against a sin.

Key world: Expel.

Seal combo is much less effective versus an Expel cleric, because a cleric can chain Expel into Throatcut without warning, which can royally mess with any plans the sin may has had: An attempt to stun the cleric either results in Purify procing (Condensed Thorn) or wasted Shadow Teleport (a 3 minute cooldown).

However, you claim that Toraah "went easy" on SerahLight. You blame your opponent instead of blaming yourself. You do not recognize your own mistakes - but do not worry. That is why I am here.

Continuing on:

Auerlius - Archosaur wrote: »

what i said was he went easy on you. he did not do the silence spam to you he normally does to me, and let's face it my cards are not as up to par as yours or toraah.

I guess that your War Avatar Cards aren't as good as SerahLight's. And yet, according to SerahLight:

Your gear is "R9R3 +12 JosD, all NW items" and "full B cards"
Hers is "r9r3 +11 Garnet (70+ Pdef) w/ r9r3 +12 Wep Icebourne, +10 g16 hat (Garnet +85) AEU Robe, +11 Garnet (70+pdef), NW Ring +11 (Stars Destiny), r9r ring +10, Dominance Tome" and "3 A cards, 2 S cards, 1 B card"

Seems to me like you have better gear. +12, JosD, and full NW kinda outweigh the difference in War Avatar Cards.

Most of your argument stems from your own self-assured ethos, your credibility. You assume that if you are a good cleric, then if you get owned, there must be something wrong. However, we see that SerahLight didn't get owned (you admitted it yourself, claiming that Toraah went easy on her).

Cleric 1: Superior Gear -> Defeat
Cleric 2: Lesser Gear -> Victory

We can then conclude that Cleric 2, SerahLight, is better than you are. Therefore, you can't be a good cleric -- and thus, your arguments have far less weight than you indignantly seem to expect.

But wait, Tsyren! You're still a non-factor. Your arguments make no sense!

Let's review really quick:

1. PWI PvP balance is when people of equal skill can defeat each other relatively equally.
2. You assume that you are of equal skill to Toraah.
3. You are defeated easily.
4. Thus, PWI PvP is unbalanced.

My refutation:

1. A cleric with comparable skill to Toraah with worse gear performed better than you did.
2. By direct comparison, you are worse than Toraah.
3. It is therefore expected that you should lose more than you win.
4. You are too arrogant to realize this without someone to point it out.

But wait, Tsyren! I don't care about me. This is about game balance!

Fine. Let's define a balanced game: Where two classes can kill each other at a relatively equal rate, given that the two players have equal skill.

From this, we can conclude that a person with less skill will lose more. This matches your situation.
From this, we can conclude a person who makes more mistakes will lose more (less skill = more mistakes). This matches your situation.

Now let's examine your situation.
TsyBot, analyze Auerlius' situation and commentate on it!

-

TsyBot has finished analyzing the 1v1: Auerlius v Toraah (link to video)!


(0:34) You waste Plume Shell before the sin is even in range. Thus, you waste the next 20 seconds of your anti-melee shield. You could have instead used the shield when he teleported next to you; you would have enough time and have enough -Channeling Time to use the skill, while ensuring that it was wisely used.

(0:43) You continue to chase Toraah even though he used Windpush, a skill that makes you unable to catch him except with Charger Orb, Shadow Binder Orb, or Holy Path, all of which would be too costly. You could have gained more chi during this time to make up for your waste of Plume Shell.

(0:46) You waste Fortify even though Plume Shell lasts up to 0:53. You could have tanked all damage from a Shadow Teleport and a followup seal combo; instead, you just get telestunned 0:58 anyways, thus wasting 55 genie energy.

(1:06) You waste time (not chi, since you're demon) on a self-Purify on a freeze that you simply could have run away from, as Elimination's freeze only lasts for 3 seconds, which is actually shorter than Throatcut's duration.

(1:13) You randomly stop running after you get sealed. Running would have wasted Toraah's seal and 100 chi of his. Instead, you just make it infinitely easier for him to catch you at 1:15.

(1:32) You use Ironguard without Fortify to "save yourself" even though Toraah's seal, sleep, and stun are all on cooldown. Self-purify would have had the same effect for zero cost.

(1:42) You decide to use Plume Shell instead of sleeping Toraah immediately after Ironguard ended. Chromatic Seal would have let you go offensive. Instead, you waste an opportunity to debuff and possibly kill Toraah.

(1:45) You self-Purify for no reason; you had no debuffs on. This means you lose time which could be used to run and gain distance.

(1:51) You use Seal of the God, a seal skill, on Toraah, who just used Will Surge. Will Surge blocks all seals. You wasted 1-spark and 15 seconds of debuff time. There was plenty of time to react and decide to not use Seal of the God (about 1.5 seconds).

(2:11) You fail to self-Purify at 2:12, which means you get set-up for a kill combo.

(2:25) You attempt to use anti-heal and Mark of Weakness debuffs on a sin with Tidal Protection that was running away. Trying for Chromatic Seal or Silent Seal would have been more effective because it would give you the ability to control the sin.

(2:35) You fail to self-Purify because you don't react fast enough, even though with R9 -Channeling Time, self-Purifying freeze is possible before Deep Sting sleep lands.

(2:43) You use Expel before Throatcut even hits. Throatcut would not have had enough damage to kill you; this is obvious because Toraah used Single Spark as opposed to Double Spark without using Extreme Poison or Tangling Mire (Single Spark is recognizable because there is no Immunity animation). This means that while you are physically immune to damage, you are still sealed for the full duration of Expel, whereas if you had used Expel after Throatcut, you would have had 4 seconds of seal to deal with, while still having 8 seconds of physical immunity. This would have let you go offensive.

(3:44) You use Badge of Courage to remove the stun from Shadow Teleport. This was unnecessary; you still had Plume Shell for a while longer and would have been easily able to tank. Instead, you waste your genie and get sealed immediately afterwards.

(3:51) You wasted both Expel and Badge of Courage previously. You have no genie left to Fortify the obviously incoming Headhunt, and since you used Badge of Courage earlier unnecessarily, you cannot use it now when you actually need it.

(3:54) You die. End 1v1.

This took me 3:57 minutes to finish.

-

Summary of the fight: You're making basic mistakes which waste your chi, you're making efficiency mistakes which prevent you from going offensive, and you're making strategical mistakes (using Badge of Courage for telestun) which ultimately cost you the fight.

You are the root of the problem. Not assassins.

My advice to you:

Toraah - Archosaur wrote: »

Instead of looking at everything around you and calling it broken, perhaps you should instead look at yourself, because everyone else can see, what you apparently cannot, or maybe you can and you're just trying to deny it, that you're wrong.

SerahLight - Archosaur wrote: »

You should perhaps change your pk style.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

sasu come back to archo pls

we no use nonfactor leads here

ok i join pro pwi leader factions yes tsy noob leader so sick of him b:spit b:cute

Toraah - Archosaur wrote: »

Yeah, Jark will even fund r9 for you!

ok i 1v1 u with my op +12 jaded gear that nick will get me and then i pretend fall down emote as if u kill me pls so can say sins op broken class b:thanks

reidlas

Man - Raging Tide wrote: »

Balance is where all classes are played, have a role, are better at different things and have their own strengths / weaknesses.

my opinion and at the same time issue. What Teddy has to do with Easter? o.o

CapnK - Sanctuary

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for that epic beatdown.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for that epic beatdown.

CapnK - Sanctuary awards 5 points to tsyfall!
tsyfall is now in 3rd place for April 2014 with 5 points (15 points overall).
CapnK - Sanctuary can still award another 25 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

porphy

tsyfall wrote: »

tl;dr: Auerlius doesn't realize that he's losing in part because he sucks. (With citations).

Okay, I'll bite.


Hello. My name is Tsyren, former resident of Archosaur server, former G16+5 APS assassin, writer of the year-old yet still only viable Assassin PvP guide on PWInternational forums, &ca, now residing at an undisclosed location that can be found on my Youtube channel.

Pleased to meet you.


Unlike you, I base my arrogance on what I can do, not what I can say. And I am here, not to say things to make myself popular (since no one remembers me anyways, and thus I have no reputation to protect) but to enlighten you to the truth, which has long been forthcoming.

This truth is fairly simple: While you claim that problems exist with the Assassin class, a fair amount of these problems reside within yourself. You accuse the PW developers of being unfair, your fellow servermates of "going easy", myself of being a nonfactor, etc.

I am here to accuse you of being, at least partially, the root of your own problems. No one else apparently is impolite enough as I am to deliver this message; thus I speak to you with both disappointment and snide glee.
(Please keep in mind that, no matter how arrogant I sound, arrogance does not make true statement false.)

Now, I'll start by refuting your posts on the last page.


This alone reveals your ignorance. There is a reason Toraah didn't use the same seal combo versus SerahLight, and Serah said it herself:

Key world: Expel.

Seal combo is much less effective versus an Expel cleric, because a cleric can chain Expel into Throatcut without warning, which can royally mess with any plans the sin may has had: An attempt to stun the cleric either results in Purify procing (Condensed Thorn) or wasted Shadow Teleport (a 3 minute cooldown).

However, you claim that Toraah "went easy" on SerahLight. You blame your opponent instead of blaming yourself. You do not recognize your own mistakes - but do not worry. That is why I am here.

Continuing on:

I guess that your War Avatar Cards aren't as good as SerahLight's. And yet, according to SerahLight:

Your gear is "R9R3 +12 JosD, all NW items" and "full B cards"
Hers is "r9r3 +11 Garnet (70+ Pdef) w/ r9r3 +12 Wep Icebourne, +10 g16 hat (Garnet +85) AEU Robe, +11 Garnet (70+pdef), NW Ring +11 (Stars Destiny), r9r ring +10, Dominance Tome" and "3 A cards, 2 S cards, 1 B card"

Seems to me like you have better gear. +12, JosD, and full NW kinda outweigh the difference in War Avatar Cards.

Most of your argument stems from your own self-assured ethos, your credibility. You assume that if you are a good cleric, then if you get owned, there must be something wrong. However, we see that SerahLight didn't get owned (you admitted it yourself, claiming that Toraah went easy on her).

Cleric 1: Superior Gear -> Defeat
Cleric 2: Lesser Gear -> Victory

We can then conclude that Cleric 2, SerahLight, is better than you are. Therefore, you can't be a good cleric -- and thus, your arguments have far less weight than you indignantly seem to expect.

But wait, Tsyren! You're still a non-factor. Your arguments make no sense!

Let's review really quick:

1. PWI PvP balance is when people of equal skill can defeat each other relatively equally.
2. You assume that you are of equal skill to Toraah.
3. You are defeated easily.
4. Thus, PWI PvP is unbalanced.

My refutation:

1. A cleric with comparable skill to Toraah with worse gear performed better than you did.
2. By direct comparison, you are worse than Toraah.
3. It is therefore expected that you should lose more than you win.
4. You are too arrogant to realize this without someone to point it out.

But wait, Tsyren! I don't care about me. This is about game balance!

Fine. Let's define a balanced game: Where two classes can kill each other at a relatively equal rate, given that the two players have equal skill.

From this, we can conclude that a person with less skill will lose more. This matches your situation.
From this, we can conclude a person who makes more mistakes will lose more (less skill = more mistakes). This matches your situation.

Now let's examine your situation.
TsyBot, analyze Auerlius' situation and commentate on it!

-

TsyBot has finished analyzing the 1v1: Auerlius v Toraah (link to video)!


(0:34) You waste Plume Shell before the sin is even in range. Thus, you waste the next 20 seconds of your anti-melee shield. You could have instead used the shield when he teleported next to you; you would have enough time and have enough -Channeling Time to use the skill, while ensuring that it was wisely used.

(0:43) You continue to chase Toraah even though he used Windpush, a skill that makes you unable to catch him except with Charger Orb, Shadow Binder Orb, or Holy Path, all of which would be too costly. You could have gained more chi during this time to make up for your waste of Plume Shell.

(0:46) You waste Fortify even though Plume Shell lasts up to 0:53. You could have tanked all damage from a Shadow Teleport and a followup seal combo; instead, you just get telestunned 0:58 anyways, thus wasting 55 genie energy.

(1:06) You waste time (not chi, since you're demon) on a self-Purify on a freeze that you simply could have run away from, as Elimination's freeze only lasts for 3 seconds, which is actually shorter than Throatcut's duration.

(1:13) You randomly stop running after you get sealed. Running would have wasted Toraah's seal and 100 chi of his. Instead, you just make it infinitely easier for him to catch you at 1:15.

(1:32) You use Ironguard without Fortify to "save yourself" even though Toraah's seal, sleep, and stun are all on cooldown. Self-purify would have had the same effect for zero cost.

(1:42) You decide to use Plume Shell instead of sleeping Toraah immediately after Ironguard ended. Chromatic Seal would have let you go offensive. Instead, you waste an opportunity to debuff and possibly kill Toraah.

(1:45) You self-Purify for no reason; you had no debuffs on. This means you lose time which could be used to run and gain distance.

(1:51) You use Seal of the God, a seal skill, on Toraah, who just used Will Surge. Will Surge blocks all seals. You wasted 1-spark and 15 seconds of debuff time. There was plenty of time to react and decide to not use Seal of the God (about 1.5 seconds).

(2:11) You fail to self-Purify at 2:12, which means you get set-up for a kill combo.

(2:25) You attempt to use anti-heal and Mark of Weakness debuffs on a sin with Tidal Protection that was running away. Trying for Chromatic Seal or Silent Seal would have been more effective because it would give you the ability to control the sin.

(2:35) You fail to self-Purify because you don't react fast enough, even though with R9 -Channeling Time, self-Purifying freeze is possible before Deep Sting sleep lands.

(2:43) You use Expel before Throatcut even hits. Throatcut would not have had enough damage to kill you; this is obvious because Toraah used Single Spark as opposed to Double Spark without using Extreme Poison or Tangling Mire (Single Spark is recognizable because there is no Immunity animation). This means that while you are physically immune to damage, you are still sealed for the full duration of Expel, whereas if you had used Expel after Throatcut, you would have had 4 seconds of seal to deal with, while still having 8 seconds of physical immunity. This would have let you go offensive.

(3:44) You use Badge of Courage to remove the stun from Shadow Teleport. This was unnecessary; you still had Plume Shell for a while longer and would have been easily able to tank. Instead, you waste your genie and get sealed immediately afterwards.

(3:51) You wasted both Expel and Badge of Courage previously. You have no genie left to Fortify the obviously incoming Headhunt, and since you used Badge of Courage earlier unnecessarily, you cannot use it now when you actually need it.

(3:54) You die. End 1v1.

This took me 3:57 minutes to finish.

-

Summary of the fight: You're making basic mistakes which waste your chi, you're making efficiency mistakes which prevent you from going offensive, and you're making strategical mistakes (using Badge of Courage for telestun) which ultimately cost you the fight.

You are the root of the problem. Not assassins.

My advice to you:

Wow, Neil, just wow.

porphy

Double post, but...

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for being a try-hard at arguing people.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for putting this guy in his place. He knows now...

GG.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Toraah - Archosaur wrote: »

Auer, I'm just going to go right out and say it. Every single time you've been told you're wrong, you come up with excuses to try prove you're right. After going on a campaign to prove sins are extremely overpowered and broken and can't be beat, I lost to a cleric who is less geared than you. After claiming that "I went easy on her" not only did you show that you pulled any excuse out of your *** to try prove you're right, but you also lost what respect I had for you. I do agree that certain new skills are broken and overpowered, and requires a nerf, but there are those that have found ways to get around them.

Instead of looking at everything around you and calling it broken, perhaps you should instead look at yourself, because everyone else can see, what you apparently cannot, or maybe you can and you're just trying to deny it, that you're wrong.

Yeah, I brought that up a few times in his other thread that I'm just amazed hasn't been closed yet.

He's got an excuse for everything, but if I had his gear, it would be damn hard for me to lose almost any 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 1 fight. (Equally geared barbs excluded because they just have too damn much HP to adequately break through the charm.)

As it is, I fight in battles well under-geared, and I'm able to quite easily take down some of those classes that he's claiming are broken, and impossible for clerics to fight against. I do it on a regular basis. Sure I die a lot too, and I expect that because my gear is sub-par.

He's also managed to take this thread, which was originally a fairly simple question about what playstyle PWE is currently balanced around, and turn it into another extention of his thread which already just spins around and back into itself, ever revolving around Auerelus The Great, who knows everything and nothing at the same time.

Also...
Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 10 points for doing something that I've often considered doing, but didn't bother to waste the time on.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

porphy wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for being a try-hard at arguing people.

porphy awards 5 points to tsyfall!
tsyfall is now in 1st place for April 2014 with 10 points (20 points overall).
porphy can still award another 25 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 5 points for putting this guy in his place. He knows now...

DionDagger - Dreamweaver awards 5 points to tsyfall!
tsyfall is now in 1st place for April 2014 with 15 points (25 points overall).
DionDagger - Dreamweaver can still award another 25 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sweetiebot please give tsyfall 10 points for doing something that I've often considered doing, but didn't bother to waste the time on.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary awards 10 points to tsyfall!
tsyfall is now in 1st place for April 2014 with 25 points (35 points overall).
SylenThunder - Sanctuary can still award another 20 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.