Help! sage vs Demon

2»

Comments

  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Try doing a boss in non aps gear, then tell me it doesnt make a difference.

    Except for the few bosses that are anti-melee why would you do them in non-aps gear? As long as you have paint, usually your best defense is a good offense (as long as you can also survive 2-3 hits in a row) so you wear whatever gives you the most dps. Besides, switching from aps to an r9t3 setup means better defense and less need to heal.

    With new primal skills skill spam became much easier, which gave sage a bit more of the edge in the r9t3+macroderp department. Prior to that it was pretty common for most sins to have an autoattack occasionally between their skills just because of lag, waiting on cooldowns, or slow clicking. This about evened out the 2-3% dph advantage sage has but didn't even out the bloodpaint difference.

    However, I agree with Brivido. For about 98% of what people do in game demon is as good as sage because both will provide full heals, whether its 2% or 3% paint. Sin dph is sick when you have 170 attack levels, 800+ dex, and 60% crit. Pre-endgame it matters alot more but by endgame, not so much. The same argument can be made for the triple sparks. Pre-endgame 25% damage reduction matters but by endgame it's not big deal in PvE.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Atropah - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Except for the few bosses that are anti-melee why would you do them in non-aps gear? As long as you have paint, usually your best defense is a good offense (as long as you can also survive 2-3 hits in a row) so you wear whatever gives you the most dps. Besides, switching from aps to an r9t3 setup means better defense and less need to heal.

    With new primal skills skill spam became much easier, which gave sage a bit more of the edge in the r9t3+macroderp department. Prior to that it was pretty common for most sins to have an autoattack occasionally between their skills just because of lag, waiting on cooldowns, or slow clicking. This about evened out the 2-3% dph advantage sage has but didn't even out the bloodpaint difference.

    However, I agree with Brivido. For about 98% of what people do in game demon is as good as sage because both will provide full heals, whether its 2% or 3% paint. Sin dph is sick when you have 170 attack levels, 800+ dex, and 60% crit. Pre-endgame it matters alot more but by endgame, not so much. The same argument can be made for the triple sparks. Pre-endgame 25% damage reduction matters but by endgame it's not big deal in PvE.

    I wasn't just talking about PvE, and actually when you get debuffed or purged, or stunned, or slept, you telling me that 25% reduction doesnt matter? Endgame aps sins can still die in places like 3-3. As for paint heals, sage paint is better when you are unsparked, i dont spark 90% of the time because i dont have to. The same arguement can be applied to demon spark, if the siin isnt sparked, demon spark has no advantage in PvE. Sage paint is the difference between needing to chug crabmeat to keep your charm from ticking, or having ur charm tick regularly on harder bosses. It's usefulness IS deminished endgame, but dont say it doesnt matter. I'm sure you would gladly accept sage bp if i gave it to you, all my endgame friends do.
  • Brivido - Dreamweaver
    Brivido - Dreamweaver Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nowadays, in aps gear unbuffed, I have the same hp, m def and p def of pre primal when buffed So to die in 3-3 is quite hard if not embarrassing ... (would need to step on hands or dc / go afk)

    pre primal if gba purged ,debuffed and amped me, i might have risked death, now i risk a charm tick... (not considering that if I want to troll a boss I can simply use blood frenzy for 20% bp for 20 seconds)

    To better explain myself, do u think that with your current gear sage bp would be beneficial over demon BP in BH 69 or 79? Because that's what end game content feels like now for an end game demon sin

    To give you an idea of semi end game demon aps, i usually solo hellfire, using jones blessing and don't have charm ticks (at times i get charm to tick, but it is not the norm). (i said semi end game as I'm still missing quite a few things, no r9r ring, crappy engravings, most armors at +10, no Avatars S sets / leveled cards...)


    This being said, I am probably biased as I have been a demon sin for the past 4 years and I have not experienced how awesome an end game sage sin is, but unless you swapped culti after primal I would expect that you as well are not aware of the full potential of a demon sin at current endgame ;)
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    As for sage APS, I have played sage and demon. I prefer my sage sin. Comapared to my wife, I can do things unsparked she could only dream of. It's a matter of playstyle. I prefer hitting hard, she prefers hitting fast. She prefers just dding, I prefer doing it myself and initiating (ie being the main tank).
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Try doing a boss in non aps gear, then tell me it doesnt make a difference.
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I wasn't just talking about PvE

    Interesting. PvP bosses. Cool. Can I be one? How much paint heal would you get off me then!
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    and actually when you get debuffed or purged, or stunned, or slept, you telling me that 25% reduction doesnt matter?

    You can't get that 25% unless you spark. I thought you said you don't spark?
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Endgame aps sins can still die in places like 3-3.

    Indeed, if they dc or go afk as Brivido said.

    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    As for paint heals, sage paint is better when you are unsparked, i dont spark 90% of the time because i dont have to. The same arguement can be applied to demon spark, if the siin isnt sparked, demon spark has no advantage in PvE.

    Some argument logic issues there. If you don't use spark, then spark is not useful? So then if you do spark, then it's useful? I mean you're saying if a demon sin sparks they have an advantage in PvE. Weren't you trying to argue the opposite.
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Sage paint is the difference between needing to chug crabmeat to keep your charm from ticking, or having ur charm tick regularly on harder bosses.

    It's usefulness IS deminished endgame, but dont say it doesnt matter. I'm sure you would gladly accept sage bp if i gave it to you, all my endgame friends do.

    Endgame demon sin's are probably like meh overheal but cheers anyway. BM's and Barbs and seekers however who are more of a DPH playstyle even in PvE would really want sage BP of course, but it makes little difference considering how much damage they are putting out in PvE now.

    Endgame at any class PvE is a joke after Primal. Let's be honest. I can solo Sonic Oppressor with no charm ticks, just crabmeats and triple sparks for heals.

    You went sage for PvP, but either cultivation for assassin works really well in PvE.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
    mypers.pw/1.7/#114350

    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

    youtube.com/darkskiesx
    Tempest-dw.shivtr.com
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Interesting. PvP bosses. Cool. Can I be one? How much paint heal would you get off me then!Blood frenzy can heal me for 20% of the damage i deal...b:laugh



    You can't get that 25% unless you spark. I thought you said you don't spark?Taking what i said out of context much? I said I don't spark MOST of the time. It's be rediculous to say i didn't spark at all. ANd I was referring to triple spark. In PvP i prefer double spark inless I am damage testing. As for me not sparking, what does that have to do with other sins who do in fact spark more than i do?



    Indeed, if they dc or go afk as Brivido said.




    Some argument logic issues there. If you don't use spark, then spark is not useful? So then if you do spark, then it's useful? I mean you're saying if a demon sin sparks they have an advantage in PvE. Weren't you trying to argue the opposite.Nice try Dark but sage sins have higher paint heals and damage when they are not triple sparked. The demon advantage of spark comes from the aps of the triple spark.



    Endgame demon sin's are probably like meh overheal but cheers anyway. BM's and Barbs and seekers however who are more of a DPH playstyle even in PvE would really want sage BP of course, but it makes little difference considering how much damage they are putting out in PvE now.Maybe so. Maybe. Sage BP for me is cost effective, and even some endgame bm's on DW have told me that they prefer sage BP especially in PV because it saves them money and charm ticks. As for sins. Almost 99% of 'endgame' sins on our server are APS. I do not consider APS, endgame, unles it is a r9rr barb. Because the armor can not be g16 which is endgame.

    Endgame at any class PvE is a joke after Primal. Let's be honest. I can solo Sonic Oppressor with no charm ticks, just crabmeats and triple sparks for heals.b:laugh

    You went sage for PvP, but either cultivation for assassin works really well in PvE.For once we agree.

    Replies in red.
  • Darkarim - Archosaur
    Darkarim - Archosaur Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Thank you all for ur replies and debates this has helped me a ton! Am going to stick to demon till i am near maxed out on damage then when i have enough money ill switch to sage
  • Olbaze - Sanctuary
    Olbaze - Sanctuary Posts: 4,242 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Wait, are people still stereotyping Demon as the APS cultivation and Sage as the DPH one?

    I would have thought that with NW making everything relating to APS cheap as dirt, people would have accepted that Sage sins can reach 4-5 aps fairly easily. And the actual DPH difference between the two culties is fairly negligible, especially with reawakening, cards and r9rr.
    I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
    If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.
  • Sevchenko - Dreamweaver
    Sevchenko - Dreamweaver Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Darkarim - Archosaur wrote: »
    I am having the hardest time deciding if i should go for APS Demon or DPH Sage. and so i had some questions!

    How much faster can a demon farm than sage? ( numbers would be nice)
    can a sage really take hits in pvp?
    what do YOU think is more fun over all?
    is sage really better for pvp purposes?

    Thank you!

    If you make an APS gear AND a DPH gear, no matter what you choose you'll be good for both PvE and PvP.

    The question is: What will you do most, PvP or PvE?

    PvP? Sage

    PvE? Demon

    Whats more fun? Sage is more fun to play.
    [S.E.V.C.H.E.N.K.O]
    Synthetic Electronic Variant Calibrated for Hazardous Exploration, Nullification and Kamikaze Observation[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Categories