Nation War Map suggest to be randomly rotated

foxmike
foxmike Posts: 51 Arc User
edited February 2014 in Suggestion Box
I believe its a good thing to randomly rotate the Nation War Map so Flame nation will atleast not always a Fail nation lolz.
Being Geographically at the bottom of the Map really give some influence.
Pro would say it depends on the players, But lots of Pro (atleast feeling pro) when they enter NW & randomly sent to Flame, QQ immediately in WC . b:shutup
Post edited by foxmike on

Comments

  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I've been in Flame and first place. I've been in Frost and last place. In DW, not long ago, Light had a two and a half weeks streak of last place. Being in the bottom doesn't mean much.
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Being in the bottom doesn't mean much.

    This !


    And anyway what do you mean by rotating the map ? During the war ? Because otherwise I really don't get your point. You're already randomly sent to one of the four nations at each NW.
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  • bangis2010
    bangis2010 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    i think that will be the case on your server,Because in LC at the beggining Light always have the victory. but nowadays most ppl qq when they belong to that nation.
  • DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver
    DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    ...it's random, just that we as humans like association so associate {insert nation here} with QQ we're gonna be last QQ
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  • Geckofreak - Sanctuary
    Geckofreak - Sanctuary Posts: 2,280 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think the reason flame loses is more of human psychology to attack downwards. Sanctuary NWs follow a solid pattern of occurrences every week. At the start of nw, flame and frost hammer light, making them the by far last place nation, while dark attacks them both, and ends up being first place for the time being, but mostly attacking flame. After light gets heavily suppressed for the first 40 minutes, both dark and light focus on flame, while frost goes for dark. Come the end of nw, both dark and light will focus on frost who they gave too much ground to hammering flame into oblivion, allowing flame to regain some ground, and everyone ends pretty close to even unless member distribution of strongest tw squads ended up together in one nation, or an excessive number of alts in one nation.
    Flame has actually been winning a good deal recently.
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  • foxmike
    foxmike Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    And anyway what do you mean by rotating the map ? During the war ? Because otherwise I really don't get your point. You're already randomly sent to one of the four nations at each NW.[/QUOTE]



    Not necessary during the NW.

    Let say this week its Flame on the bottom, next week will be another nation (random).



    Geographic position really affects the nations performance. (it is proven) b:cute
  • Saethos - Raging Tide
    Saethos - Raging Tide Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I think the reason flame loses is more of human psychology to attack downwards. Sanctuary NWs follow a solid pattern of occurrences every week. At the start of nw, flame and frost hammer light, making them the by far last place nation, while dark attacks them both, and ends up being first place for the time being, but mostly attacking flame. After light gets heavily suppressed for the first 40 minutes, both dark and light focus on flame, while frost goes for dark. Come the end of nw, both dark and light will focus on frost who they gave too much ground to hammering flame into oblivion, allowing flame to regain some ground, and everyone ends pretty close to even unless member distribution of strongest tw squads ended up together in one nation, or an excessive number of alts in one nation.
    Flame has actually been winning a good deal recently.

    Interesting...Here on raging tides our pattern goes more like this.

    Everyone gets into NW, people who get flame QQ about it.

    Frost evenly attacks both dark and light 8/10 times, but both light and dark have had almost every squad push south, into flame, so frost can take over half their lands while the two beat flame to a pulp by doubling their numbers against flame and always having back up.

    Usually, light is the easiest to give way for squads of flame as they pressure the now monstrosous blob of purple that is frost nation, who has first by about 50+ points 30 minutes in. As light pushes, forsts pressure on dark lowers to counter light. Dark pushes a little on light but they are still well faced.

    Now with Flame squads hitting light, dark goes straight into our base with 4-6 squads camping flame out, preventing them from going anywhere.

    Flame can't go far to the east like that, so more people go against light. Light sees the oncoming threat of flame again and puts all their numbers on flame since flame is at or near their base. Flame gets shot back down, again cornered by light and dark.

    Frost regrows into a titan.

    Repeat process, dark and light are interchangeable.

    I know this doesn't happen -every- nation war, but bottom line is, if you get flame on Raging Tides, you can bet on losing, so don't use too many def charms, apoth, or let your charm tick too much unless you see a miracle begin to unfold. Even when dark or light win, flame is still generally placed last.

    I'm pretty sure it's a psychological thing with everyone wanting to push south, or maybe it's the color. All I know is, nobody likes flame. Granted it could be from people being dispirited and therefor not at their best performance. Either way, if you are in NW to win and you get flame, just leave.
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  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 🇭elper 🇪xtraordinary 🐲💯 Posts: 4,513 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    This is an interesting Suggestion / Idea.

    Yes it is proven the location on NW affects the winner. On my server mostly Dark / Frost tend to win. Light is normally third and Flame Last.

    My one point to make is not everyone ends up in the same nation all the time. The other point is that their was a call to stop people being able to Squad until they where in NW. The idea behind this was to even the numbers better and split the Really OP Squads down.

    Im in to minds about this so for now ill keep my eye on this as well.
  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    heero200 wrote: »
    This is an interesting Suggestion / Idea.

    Yes it is proven the location on NW affects the winner. On my server mostly Dark / Frost tend to win. Light is normally third and Flame Last.

    My one point to make is not everyone ends up in the same nation all the time. The other point is that their was a call to stop people being able to Squad until they where in NW. The idea behind this was to even the numbers better and split the Really OP Squads down.

    Im in to minds about this so for now ill keep my eye on this as well.


    It is proven... by whom?

    No, it has nothing to do. Mostly what that means is you guys just developed a way to collectively attack the same nations upon starting instead of switching nations and stuff like that as needed.
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    The nation stuff is purely psychological because as humans, we tend to associate patterns. It's how we've come to survive and thrive and is something we do on a subconcious level.

    Even if this were added in, it's no different from the fact that... ya know... we get different nations each time at random anyways. Getting Flame and it being at the top of the map is functionally no different from getting frost. Except that the former involved modifying what wasn't broken and could potentially introduce new issues.

    It's absolutely pointless to have this and I, for one, am firmly against wasting time with it.
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  • skaitavia
    skaitavia Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    OPKossy wrote: »
    The nation stuff is purely psychological because as humans, we tend to associate patterns. It's how we've come to survive and thrive and is something we do on a subconcious level.

    Even if this were added in, it's no different from the fact that... ya know... we get different nations each time at random anyways. Getting Flame and it being at the top of the map is functionally no different from getting frost. Except that the former involved modifying what wasn't broken and could potentially introduce new issues.

    It's absolutely pointless to have this and I, for one, am firmly against wasting time with it.

    More or less this, especially the bold part.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    There actually is a functional difference between flame and frost since the map is not symmetric. In particular if you fill the map based off which HQ a land is nearest to by hop distance you'd find that frost would naturally have control over about 3 more lands than flame. Flame's HQ is very close to dark which makes it more vulnerable to lock in.
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  • Geckofreak - Sanctuary
    Geckofreak - Sanctuary Posts: 2,280 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    It is proven... by whom?

    No, it has nothing to do. Mostly what that means is you guys just developed a way to collectively attack the same nations upon starting instead of switching nations and stuff like that as needed.

    I remember awhile ago, when NW had only been out for like a month, a threat popping up of people trying to explain how the map layout put flame at a disadvantage from the get-go. In the end, it actually proved that with the original NW layout, flame had one of the more ideal setups b:chuckle
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  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    There actually is a functional difference between flame and frost since the map is not symmetric. In particular if you fill the map based off which HQ a land is nearest to by hop distance you'd find that frost would naturally have control over about 3 more lands than flame. Flame's HQ is very close to dark which makes it more vulnerable to lock in.
    This is true of the map as it currently is.

    In this hypothetical scenario, the nations would rotate randomly though... which means either the map retains the same state it's currently at and just flips on the side... or we see something (for example: like flame having dark's land, light with frost's, dark having light, and light at flame) where the only change is the label on the lands.

    In the case of the latter, there's no functional difference as you're sent to a random nation anyway, so having the labels change while the land remains the same won't be any different from just getting a different nation to begin with.

    For the former, we'd need four NW maps because, like you said, it's not symmetric. So while in this version, Flame may be up top while Frost is at the bottom (with light and dark obviously swapping sides) the only potential change would be psychological as they'd still all be starting with the same situations as we have now when it comes to lands and how quickly you can get to a base. Just we'd see them on a different part of the map.


    Either way, it's not any real change from the current situation and just adds unnecessary complication to the system.
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  • heerohex#3018
    heerohex#3018 🇭elper 🇪xtraordinary 🐲💯 Posts: 4,513 Community Moderator
    edited February 2014
    After reviewing the arguments im gonna go with...

    Flame and Light also have the chat box in the corner. Tho this makes a small problem it is still a problem. Rotating the maps would get rid of the "Dam im in light/flame im gonna loose"

    For this im not gonna log as i do think it would add more work to the server than is needed yes ill agree with that. Also since the Nation choice is almost random ( Soul Force Decides ) so that would mean you wont always get the same nation nor will it always win.

    A suggestion is worth exploring and a conclusion is always needed!