Remove NW blessing for reborn people

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · December 2013

This is just ridiculous that R9-r9rr people can take that blessing in NW. Blessing was meant to be for low lvl people with weaker gear. It meant to be help for them not for reborn people with OP gear and its insane to see what it does to them.

Its really easy to solve this, just don't make it available for reborn people, they don't need it and that just makes nw stupid.

Evryn - Morai · December 2013

Your assumption is that only R9RR people are reborn.
That assumption is faulty.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Your assumption is that only R9RR people are reborn.
That assumption is faulty.

It's still not fair that people wearing their 100+ gears get to have the blessing that was made to balance people with tt70 with those using G15-ish gear.

At least that thing is purgeable.

Brett - Morai · December 2013

NW is not balanced. It's not meant to be. It's a place where people who have spent the most money get the best reward. It's a r9rr event. I don't go there because I just get 1 shotted at spawn. I have suggested a balanced pvp event, have a read and see what you think.

FistToDeath - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Brett - Morai wrote: »

NW is not balanced. It's not meant to be. It's a place where people who have spent the most money get the best reward. It's a r9rr event. I don't go there because I just get 1 shotted at spawn. I have suggested a balanced pvp event, have a read and see what you think.

It's not balanced, ofc, because it's pvp, and pvp will depend on gear and skill, and that's fair. However, the blessing was made to up lower lvl people on par with similarly geared lvl 100s. Not to further increase the power of those who are already powerful enough to handle their own in NW.

Maybe a good fix for this would be giving this blessing based on soulforce, and have it disappear if your soulforce goes over a certain value, so people wouldn't abuse it by gear-swapping.

However, having it not work on reawaken people is probably a faster fix.

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Evryn - Morai wrote: »

Your assumption is that only R9RR people are reborn.
That assumption is faulty.

This is not the point. Point is that blessing is not meant to be used on OP geared people. And Im sure that those 5 people who reborn right after they hit 100 can manage without it instead of tones reborn people with g16, r9,r9rr gear.

opkossy · December 2013

I support this.

That buff was never meant for those above 100 and the closer you get to 100, the weaker the buff was to begin with. So having it now affect people who are in their level 100+ gear but managed to get to a lower level and have more attribute points to throw around than those who the buff was meant for?

No, it shouldn't happen to begin with.

Verenor - Morai · December 2013

Continueing on the assumption of everyone reborn has r9+.

Remove the balance blessing and you **** over the 99% that isn't r9 and higher:
New players with still tt90/tt99/g15/r8 hit lv100 and instantly rebirth to have a chance of catching up to older players. Without the blessing they would be mere fodder to everyone lv100+ nomatter r9 or not.
The level difference already brings along a 50% dmg reduction, the blessing at lv77 brings around 60~atk lvls and 50 def levels. Anyone r9 reborn still oneshots them but at least they are capable of being on the playingfield with people non-r9.

If anything remove the blessing for R9 or based on players current atk levels/defense levels instead of level:
lv100+ don't gain a blessing;
Atk lvl in excess of 75 (debatable, just my current estimate that can exclude full g16's and r9's) don't get a blessing. To avoid ppl unequipping gear/equipping gear, the blessing disappears as your stat reaches it, get's purged. (yes it's tricky I know, but **** over the 99% because the already overpowered 1% get's more overpowered isn't a better solution).

If anyone has a better solution feel free to post. Just seems that the blessing stops at lv100 because of the level difference is as good as nullified, yet reborn people cope with level differences again and thus a 50%/50 atk levels dmg reduction.

ovenusarmanio · December 2013

It's not an assumption that everyone is r9. That buff has been there since nation wars debuted. It's for the low levels. If you want to remove the damage penalty from being less than 100, get off your butt and level it doesn't take long and there is already 4x exp. The buff is meant for someone in tt70 gear to have a chance against people in low refined g15 gear. If you could wear anything above tt99 it wasn't designed for you. Previously, If you had g16 gear, there wasn't much the lowbie buff did to you. But the people on the lowest end of the spectrum could all compete with one another thanks to it. They are giving you a handicap on someone you are already naturally stronger than and have more attribute points in. That's ridiculous. It was PWI"s version of the noob cannon and it's the reasons people were able to enjoy the event no matter the level. Not everything should be for people who are already at 100. You want to compete with r9? Go get r9. If you just want to compete with the majority of the server, g16 gear is already more than enough and is easily obtainable if you want it. People even sell it off if you can't do warsong. There is really no excuse not to get it if you honestly want to be competitive in that aspect instead of rallying to keep things that were obviously designed for people much weaker than you in mind for yourself.

They wouldn't be "**** you over" by continuing to offer buffs based on level. There are genuine new players in there that need a boost because they can't do things like farm warsong themselves by nature of the game mechanics. Not because of whatever issue keeps you from doing it. It's stupid to nerf people who are already the weakest in the event. And no that isn't the people who were reincarnating.

Verenor - Morai · December 2013

Cut out a few sentences to shorten the quotes

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It's for the low levels. If you want to remove the damage penalty from being less than 100, get off your butt and level it doesn't take long and there is already 4x exp.

Not everyone has time 24/7 do be on here able to level non-stop, getting back to 100 takes longer than a day or two for some. Figured I would point this out since you immediatly tossed in the general assumption of lazyness if someone can't meet standards of playing 24hrs a day.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The buff is meant for someone in tt70 gear to have a chance against people in low refined g15 gear... ...But the people on the lowest end of the spectrum could all compete with one another thanks to it.

Anyone with TT70 gear and the balancer still didn't stand a chance, all the balancer did was eat their charms quicker. Even if, the balancer is no use even against ppl with g15 armor as they can still shoot through their small defence in one go. The Balancer would need a revamp heavily if it was to help TT70's PvP without non-r8r's and up spawncamping them.

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

They wouldn't be "**** you over" by continuing to offer buffs based on level. There are genuine new players in there that need a boost because they can't do things like farm warsong themselves by nature of the game mechanics. Not because of whatever issue keeps you from doing it. It's stupid to nerf people who are already the weakest in the event. And no that isn't the people who were reincarnating.

I didn't state they would **** people over if the blessing was continued based on level, it's what others believed due to rebirthed people. With the assumption that every rebirthed person has that proper gear that meets lv100 standards.
My point was, which you missed appearantly, that not every reborn person has badass gear and will still need the blessing to be able to still compete in NW whilst they're working back up to lv100 (99-100 has no x4 and alone takes some people a few days, maybe even a week with workdays. Meaning that removing the NW blessing for all reborn means people are heavily disadvantaged by trying to keep up with older players.

Haven't seen such a hostile reply from a forum mod in a while, these are opinions for a suggestion, not passing a law to lower minimum wages.

Zoldi - Morai · December 2013

I would be more in favour that suggestion rather than against it but this is not a real problem anyway.
How many NW will R9rr people do while being below 100 ? For a lot of them it will be 0. For some others it might be 1 or 2. But very few will do 3 or more because they will up to 100 really fast....

ovenusarmanio · December 2013

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

Cut out a few sentences to shorten the quotes

Not everyone has time 24/7 do be on here able to level non-stop, getting back to 100 takes longer than a day or two for some. Figured I would point this out since you immediatly tossed in the general assumption of lazyness if someone can't meet standards of playing 24hrs a day.

You wouldn't need to that much time to get back to 100. This isn't the time from 1-100 normally, you have 4x the exp on top of hypers. Just doing some PV each day (15 minutes) would probably get you there in within a week or two. The speed at which you can level back up to it even casually makes the disadvantage pretty small. Don't exaggerate with the 24 hours a day line, if you want your character to be competitive in time for nation wars it's not that hard to plan ahead and rebirth after nation wars. And to focus your playtime on getting back up. It wont' take a lot of time. It may not take as soon as 2 days when you aren't playing 24/7 but you should certainly be able to do it within a couple weeks if you are really trying. In addition to the exp boost, all the content available should be able to be done at lightning fast speeds because even tt90 gear is grossly overpowered for getting a large portion of the lowbie bhs done. You don't have to spend your time getting coin for your level 100 gear either. In addition to all the different gear stages that come with normal levelling. All time sucks that slow actual lowbie levelling.

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

Cut
Anyone with TT70 gear and the balancer still didn't stand a chance, all the balancer did was eat their charms quicker. Even if, the balancer is no use even against ppl with g15 armor as they can still shoot through their small defence in one go. The Balancer would need a revamp heavily if it was to help TT70's PvP without non-r8r's and up spawncamping them.

That's not true at all. I know from a vast amount of personal experience of being a lowbie in nation wars. The balancer worked wonders to make it so that you could defend against a ton of the playerbase and even win fights. In fact, I did about as well as many people I know in not greatly refined g15 gear on a lowbie. Which isn't anywhere near as well as someone in r999, but is still a lot better than most people assume. It was the entire point of the buff and it has been there since nation war was introduced. It's true you were still a one shot to anyone in r9, but so is anyone in g13/15 so I don't see how that is at all relevant. Or takes away from the point that the original purpose of the buff was to balance those people out. There was no such thing as rebirthing back then. That was the buffs purpose and it did it's job fine.

Verenor - Morai wrote: »

I didn't state they would **** people over if the blessing was continued based on level, it's what others believed due to rebirthed people. With the assumption that every rebirthed person has that proper gear that meets lv100 standards.
My point was, which you missed appearantly, that not every reborn person has badass gear and will still need the blessing to be able to still compete in NW whilst they're working back up to lv100 (99-100 has no x4 and alone takes some people a few days, maybe even a week with workdays. Meaning that removing the NW blessing for all reborn means people are heavily disadvantaged by trying to keep up with older players.

Haven't seen such a hostile reply from a forum mod in a while, these are opinions for a suggestion, not passing a law to lower minimum wages.

I understood your point and my point is that you are only going to be dealing with a couple weeks. And that there are actual things you can do to minimze your concerns. It's an indisputable fact that you are being buffed against the people who the buff was originally deisgned for on top of your extra attribute points and gear advantage. This is effectively nerfing the most disadvantaged group of players in this top heavy game. Rebirth toons do not have the same disadvantages and already in a much better position to overcome them.

But leaving it in is a permanent nerf to all future new players and genuine lowbies by allowing people who previously were not supposed to be allowed to use that buff with that gear. IT buffs you past what is reasonable for them to deal with it. It nerfs the people that it was originally designed for. You miss out on level 100 BHs as well when you rebirth. Should the BH NPC give you all types of extra prizes for doing lowbie BHs. You miss out on any lunar and warsong farming squads you could've done. Should the rebirthing NPC give you badges to make up for that too? Why should lower levelled players be given a permanent nerf in power when they are already the weakest people in there when you have so many other options to remove your disadvantage? Rebirth isn't designed for you to continue doing the same thing you've been doing. It's to trade off a little bit of work re-levelling in return for more power. There are things you can plan out and do with game mechanics to address your issues that actual new players and genuine lowbies do not have the means to do. You should be using those.

As for any "hostility" just because I disagree with you wholeheartedly and we could not be on more opposite sides of this issue, doesn't mean I was being hostile. I just disagree with literally everything you are saying, and pointed out things I especially disagreed with. Tone of voice isn't conveyed on the internet.

Salari - Raging Tide · December 2013

level up, finish your cultivation, reawaken and stop pvp'n in morai gear b:victory

heerohex#3018 · December 2013

Sorry, Gonna back Venus up on this one my self.

I think this should be played out for now, as most people are not Lv 99- for very long. if it starts to get stupid im sure it will be looked over.

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · December 2013

This blessing like I sad was meant for people who didn't 100 yet and who don't have good gear. Buy letting reborn people use it, we toke away that little bit advantage those people had over op people. I fought people with high lvl gear with that blessing and I was using it while I was reborn 90+ and its insane what that blessing does.

Just makes bigger gap between "normal" under 100 lvl people and reborn one. Put the blessing where it belongs, and it belongs to NOT reborn people under lvl 100.

Toddloveleah - Harshlands · December 2013

I think people forget a few things about RB people. Let me say an example.

I was 1v1ing a lvl 100 seeker not RB and i was RB lvl 92. He was wearing full tt99 and a few g15 pieces and i was full g16.

We pvp'd for 20 minutes neither person could kill the other one. Normally before rebirth at lvl 101 a lvl 100 seeker with anything under g16 would be cake.

It's the soulforce RB people DO have a disadvantage the only real advantage they have is gear other than that they are in the same boat as Un-Reborn people.

I got that buff in nw last friday, the only true difference i felt or saw was the hp. It's not like a super power buff that automatically levels you with r9rr for god sake. I got killed over and over just as before in fact i almost felt like the buff did nothing for me xD let alone making a drastic improvement that is claimed in this thread.

Also until a RB person is in the 9x's the extra stats arent even really added on they have some more stats than the standard person thats about it. If you really dont like it lvl to 100 which ultimately even before the update should of been any lower lvls goal anyways.

It's easier now than ever to find fc squads and yes people do let un-reborn people join ive had 10+ different squads i let unreborn people in and even caught **** for it.

Jeez.

opkossy · December 2013

Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »

I think people forget a few things about RB people. Let me say an example.

I was 1v1ing a lvl 100 seeker not RB and i was RB lvl 92. He was wearing full tt99 and a few g15 pieces and i was full g16.

We pvp'd for 20 minutes neither person could kill the other one. Normally before rebirth at lvl 101 a lvl 100 seeker with anything under g16 would be cake.

That completely ignores refines and skill level of the players involved. I can kill low refined G16s on gamma capped characters (level 85) with an average refine of +5 outside of NW because of skill, even though I should be "cake" to anything above ~95.

It's the soulforce RB people DO have a disadvantage the only real advantage they have is gear other than that they are in the same boat as Un-Reborn people.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

No.

Wanna know the biggest factor for soulforce? Refines. Wanna know what refines give an advantage with? Gear. Wanna know what the biggest advantage in the game is? Gear.

And that's without considering the additional skills you get to access at 95+ that nobody below that level outside of rebirth can use. People who like to talk about archers being so mobile with leaps and stealth? How about so good at damage/chi with bloodvow and awaken? They don't get ANY of that pre-95/100. And guess what level range the NW buff no longer exists at and is at the weakest? Weakest at 95-99, lost at 100! This is the case for a reason, folks!

I got that buff in nw last friday, the only true difference i felt or saw was the hp. It's not like a super power buff that automatically levels you with r9rr for god sake. I got killed over and over just as before in fact i almost felt like the buff did nothing for me xD let alone making a drastic improvement that is claimed in this thread.

At 90+, the buff is nowhere near as strong as the buff is at... say... level 60 where you get over 100 defense levels. And when you have lower refines on your gear, you will not see a HUGE advantage unless you're already highly skilled and are able to take advantage of the boost to its fullest. For genuine lowbies, it's a world of difference and allows you to compete with a select range of opponents you normally couldn't stand against. It doesn't stop the super endgames from 1-shotting you still... but with it a mid/low refined TT70 player can compete with a mid/low refined R8-G16 player and have a chance if they're more skilled.

Also until a RB person is in the 9x's the extra stats arent even really added on they have some more stats than the standard person thats about it. If you really dont like it lvl to 100 which ultimately even before the update should of been any lower lvls goal anyways.

... You do realize the extra stats you get, at a minimum, are worth four levels on a genuine lowbie. Assuming you were in the exact same gear as someone who hadn't gone through this, you'd have an advantage that people pay ~18-30m (depending on server) for. Just for the initial reincarnation. Anyone who spends any time in PvP will tell you it's a big difference. There's a reason why even before NW a Love, Up and Down was so much more valuable than a Pan Gu even though it was, AT BEST, 16 more stat points.

And this is just pointing out the absolute LOWEST form of advantage without all the other perks you'd get or addressing the rest that's wrong with that quote.

Even the OP geared players themselves realize how broken this is for NW. Hell, anyone who genuinely plays a lower level as well knows just how lopsided this buff affecting the very people it was supposed to let them have an uphill struggle against is. At least with it they had the ability to fight back or make a small difference. Now? They don't even get that anymore.

Toddloveleah - Harshlands · December 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

That completely ignores refines and skill level of the players involved. I can kill low refined G16s on gamma capped characters (level 85) with an average refine of +5 outside of NW because of skill, even though I should be "cake" to anything above ~95.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

No.

Wanna know the biggest factor for soulforce? Refines. Wanna know what refines give an advantage with? Gear. Wanna know what the biggest advantage in the game is? Gear.

And that's without considering the additional skills you get to access at 95+ that nobody below that level outside of rebirth can use. People who like to talk about archers being so mobile with leaps and stealth? How about so good at damage/chi with bloodvow and awaken? They don't get ANY of that pre-95/100. And guess what level range the NW buff no longer exists at and is at the weakest? Weakest at 95-99, lost at 100! This is the case for a reason, folks!

At 90+, the buff is nowhere near as strong as the buff is at... say... level 60 where you get over 100 defense levels. And when you have lower refines on your gear, you will not see a HUGE advantage unless you're already highly skilled and are able to take advantage of the boost to its fullest. For genuine lowbies, it's a world of difference and allows you to compete with a select range of opponents you normally couldn't stand against. It doesn't stop the super endgames from 1-shotting you still... but with it a mid/low refined TT70 player can compete with a mid/low refined R8-G16 player and have a chance if they're more skilled.

... You do realize the extra stats you get, at a minimum, are worth four levels on a genuine lowbie. Assuming you were in the exact same gear as someone who hadn't gone through this, you'd have an advantage that people pay ~18-30m (depending on server) for. Just for the initial reincarnation. Anyone who spends any time in PvP will tell you it's a big difference. There's a reason why even before NW a Love, Up and Down was so much more valuable than a Pan Gu even though it was, AT BEST, 16 more stat points.

And this is just pointing out the absolute LOWEST form of advantage without all the other perks you'd get or addressing the rest that's wrong with that quote.

Even the OP geared players themselves realize how broken this is for NW. Hell, anyone who genuinely plays a lower level as well knows just how lopsided this buff affecting the very people it was supposed to let them have an uphill struggle against is. At least with it they had the ability to fight back or make a small difference. Now? They don't even get that anymore.

I love how you mods instead of being like MODS and laying down the rules and stuff always decide to argue with people.

That was an example you idiot. My soulforce IS lower due to lvl and while refines and skill level play into it im only full +5 so my gear doesnt give a ton of soulforce. So your point is inaccurate for me and for most players the general population of pwi isnt r9rr +12 so good job being wrong mod.

I got 25 extra stats at the minute so i have 5 levels of stats on unreborn people. Whoopdeedoo. I might as well QQ in pvp about 105s having 20 extra stats while we are at it. Once again a petty dumb point only made to argue GJ mod.

Eh the def levels or w.e shouldnt exist for lowbies level up and gear up dont QQ if you are lvl 60-70 in nw getting killed do something about it.

Nice job trying to flame me with that first bit about my [skill level] its hard as a blademaster in general to beat a seeker. Nice mods we got here where all they do is argue and talk ****.

opkossy · December 2013

Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »

I love how you mods instead of being like MODS and laying down the rules and stuff always decide to argue with people.

Oh get off your high horse and get a clue what you're talking about before you make yourself look like a fool. We have the same rights as players to have our own opinions and discuss our opinions on the game as you do. Got a problem with that? Too bad.

v4liance wrote: »

Hey guys,

This isn't really open to debate - the moderators have opinions, and I'm not going to try to silence them.

These are hard working, passionate volunteers who love this community and want to help keep these forums a friendly place.

If you have an issue with any of the moderators, you can let me know via private message. I take all complaints seriously, but please also know that the moderator team does have my faith.

- Val

With your blatant ignorance out of the way, let's move on.

That was an example you idiot. My soulforce IS lower due to lvl and while refines and skill level play into it im only full +5 so my gear doesnt give a ton of soulforce. So your point is inaccurate for me and for most players the general population of pwi isnt r9rr +12 so good job being wrong mod.

And I provided a counterexample. Or do you not understand the basics in a debate? Yes, level affects soulforce but you used it as a primary reason here... and guess what affects soulforce more? Refines. Not a difficult concept to grasp. As I said, those who are already OP just get even more OP. Meanwhile the groups that this buff was designed to help lower levels stand a chance against, people like you with moderate refines but better base gear and more options available for skills, are getting a boost they should not.

I got 25 extra stats at the minute so i have 5 levels of stats on unreborn people. Whoopdeedoo. I might as well QQ in pvp about 105s having 20 extra stats while we are at it. Once again a petty dumb point only made to argue GJ mod.

You have a level 5 tome's worth of a boost on them for free before accounting for all your other advantages. Level five tomes? That's about ~90m or so on most servers. You wanna claim that's not significant in any way? Really? I already pointed out the difference a small amount of stat points can make. Or are you so foolish and ignorant you refuse to notice the large amounts people pay for things like an additional socket, certain engraves, or various seemingly minor status boosts? Congratulations, by the way, on ignoring my other points about how status points are just one of your numerous advantages. Because clearly a level 100 in level 10 gear is a fair opponent for a genuine level 10.

... Oh wait, no they aren't.

Eh the def levels or w.e shouldnt exist for lowbies level up and gear up dont QQ if you are lvl 60-70 in nw getting killed do something about it.

Really? What happened to:

My soulforce IS lower due to lvl and while refines and skill level play into it im only full +5 so my gear doesnt give a ton of soulforce. So your point is inaccurate for me and for most players the general population of pwi isnt r9rr +12

By your own words, "level up and gear up" so "good job being wrong".

Nice job trying to flame me with that first bit about my [skill level] its hard as a blademaster in general to beat a seeker. Nice mods we got here where all they do is argue and talk ****.

Anyone with basic reading comprehension can tell that what I said wasn't flaming you. Unless, of course, you ARE a stupid moron with no skill whatsoever and the seeker was just an average player. In which case, good job letting everyone know you're a nonfactor that they can mow down with little effort unless you massively outgear them. As i said, your statement has no substance to it and my counterexample explains why. In your own words, "That was an example you idiot."

Also, I found it utterly hilarious how you said that a seeker of that gear would be "cake" for you normally, yet now you're backpedaling to say that it's oh-so-tough. Make up your mind on which one it is. A difficult battle cannot be "cake". Unless, of course, you want to imply you are one of the many noobs with no skill that are unable to properly fight those they do not hold a large level and/or gear advantage over. In which case, attempting to debate with you is a waste of time as you'd be too clueless about the game to have an opinion that matters when it comes to balance and what's best for the game anyways.

Toddloveleah - Harshlands · December 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

Oh get off your high horse and get a clue what you're talking about before you make yourself look like a fool. We have the same rights as players to have our own opinions and discuss our opinions on the game as you do. Got a problem with that? Too bad.

With your blatant ignorance out of the way, let's move on.

And I provided a counterexample. Or do you not understand the basics in a debate? Yes, level affects soulforce but you used it as a primary reason here... and guess what affects soulforce more? Refines. Not a difficult concept to grasp. As I said, those who are already OP just get even more OP. Meanwhile the groups that this buff was designed to help lower levels stand a chance against, people like you with moderate refines but better base gear and more options available for skills, are getting a boost they should not.

You have a level 5 tome's worth of a boost on them for free before accounting for all your other advantages. Level five tomes? That's about ~90m or so on most servers. You wanna claim that's not significant in any way? Really? I already pointed out the difference a small amount of stat points can make. Or are you so foolish and ignorant you refuse to notice the large amounts people pay for things like an additional socket, certain engraves, or various seemingly minor status boosts? Congratulations, by the way, on ignoring my other points about how status points are just one of your numerous advantages. Because clearly a level 100 in level 10 gear is a fair opponent for a genuine level 10.

... Oh wait, no they aren't.

Really? What happened to:

By your own words, "level up and gear up" so "good job being wrong".

Anyone with basic reading comprehension can tell that what I said wasn't flaming you. Unless, of course, you ARE a stupid moron with no skill whatsoever and the seeker was just an average player. In which case, good job letting everyone know you're a nonfactor that they can mow down with little effort unless you massively outgear them. As i said, your statement has no substance to it and my counterexample explains why. In your own words, "That was an example you idiot."

Also, I found it utterly hilarious how you said that a seeker of that gear would be "cake" for you normally, yet now you're backpedaling to say that it's oh-so-tough. Make up your mind on which one it is. A difficult battle cannot be "cake". Unless, of course, you want to imply you are one of the many noobs with no skill that are unable to properly fight those they do not hold a large level and/or gear advantage over. In which case, attempting to debate with you is a waste of time as you'd be too clueless about the game to have an opinion that matters when it comes to balance and what's best for the game anyways.

Yeah and sorry your opinion is wrong xD.

I don't really understand what you are arguing anymore anyways.

Yeah and once again ill say the general population isnt +12 r9rr so in the long run of things if you want to argue about soulforce a unreborn +4 lvl 100 seeker has more soulforce than my lvl 92 +5 all around bm. My alt is full +4 lvl 101 with about 18k soulforce un-RB my bm was about 14k soulforce at 92.

So yeah since you ARE trying to flame me about my skill level maybe you should actually learn about the game.

When did i ever say anything about a lvl 5 tome? i said 5 lvls of stats....being 25 points....since i RB at 101....lulz.

I'm not QQing about being a lower lvl rofl and im not the QQing about a nw buff for people who will all already be 100 by next week lol. I'm already 98 you're on a long rant about people who will be lower levels for like 2 weeks max nobody is going to keep their toon in the 6x-7x range just to get extra stats in NW.

Your last paragraph will be copied and pasted and reported. Calling me a stupid moron with no skill level is definitely flaming and no denying that bud.

I said at 101 the seekers would be easy not at 92 with lower soulforce lol. My soulforce went from like 14k-18k and im at 98 now.

You mods need to get it under control sure you can argue or w.e but you are getting into name calling and flaming to quickly this will be reported.

opkossy · December 2013

Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »

Yeah and sorry your opinion is wrong xD.

What a horrible way to begin. I can just as easily say the same to you... only I can better prove my stance. You cannot say the same.

I don't really understand what you are arguing anymore anyways.

Then what, exactly, are you doing in this thread? I'm explaining to you why this buff should not apply to players who have gone through reincarnation, as that is what the topic is about. Not once have I strayed from my point about this. If you somehow can't keep up with this point then I suggest you stop responding to this thread.

Yeah and once again ill say the general population isnt +12 r9rr so in the long run of things if you want to argue about soulforce a unreborn +4 lvl 100 seeker has more soulforce than my lvl 92 +5 all around bm. My alt is full +4 lvl 101 with about 18k soulforce un-RB my bm was about 14k soulforce at 92.

... And your point being?

First of all, soulforce is not a huge deal if you aren't a psychic or using one of a set few soulforce related skills. Outside of those, it's more of an indication of gear than anything else. I was hoping you'd have realized this long ago, but you clearly don't understand enough of the game to have noticed. Essentially, it means your claims about how soulforce is a disadvantage are... completely irrelevant since it really wouldn't matter.

Secondly, like with the bonuses from refining themselves, lower refines have a lower impact on soulforce than higher ones. Simply put, a +10 weapon offers a larger boost to soulforce than a +4 weapon. Also, weapons have a larger impact on soulforce than individual armors do. I shouldn't have to explain these facts to someone knowledgeable about the game, but your posts so far have led me to believe that you do need basics explained to you.

Finally, you were the one claiming that you should level up and gear up instead of QQ about your gear and level. So by YOUR opinion, not mine, your entire point about soulforce and being at a lower level now, and how everyone isn't a R9 third cast in +12 is invalidated. Even though, I might add, your entire point was a mere strawman. Seeing as you want to claim my opinion is wrong even though the majority of my prior post was either pointing out facts (things that, by nature of what they are, cannot be wrong), or using your own logic and opinion to dismantle your asinine claims (thus, taking your OWN opinion and letting you see how poorly thought out it is since it conflicts with itself all over the place), you've inherently conceded that your own opinion is wrong with the very first sentence of your newest post. Way to go!

So yeah since you ARE trying to flame me about my skill level maybe you should actually learn about the game.

I am not flaming you and have not flamed you. I have merely provided examples. If they apply to you and you are a fool, that is not my concern other than to ignore you for future discussion. If the examples do not apply to you, then why get worked up about it? Do note that you were the one to bring your own skill into question here. All I ever did was provide a counterexample to show why your example lacked substance.

Funny how the person who can't even understand the basic concepts being explained here is telling a veteran player who was able to gain respect as a knowledgeable source of information about the game on the default forum avatar to "learn about the game". Truly, your ignorance knows no bounds.

When did i ever say anything about a lvl 5 tome? i said 5 lvls of stats....being 25 points....since i RB at 101....lulz.

Learn to read. I'm not about to dumb down what I wrote once again as it's already an extremely simple concept to understand. If you don't know or understand what some of the ingame items do, then that's one thing. However, even then, I had explained the comparison to you and pointed out why it was significant. I even used multiple examples so that you would understand it if the tome example flew above your head, as it clearly has.

I'm not QQing about being a lower lvl rofl and im not the QQing about a nw buff for people who will all already be 100 by next week lol. I'm already 98 you're on a long rant about people who will be lower levels for like 2 weeks max nobody is going to keep their toon in the 6x-7x range just to get extra stats in NW.

If you don't care, why are you here and why are you acting like an ignorant buffoon? Exit the thread as you have no place discussing something you so clearly feel does not matter and let those who do care discuss the matter in peace.

Your last paragraph will be copied and pasted and reported. Calling me a stupid moron with no skill level is definitely flaming and no denying that bud.

The only one calling you stupid here is you, as you're acknowledging that the example given applies directly to you. Best of luck reporting that you did not actually bother to read what was stated even if it does not apply to you.

I said at 101 the seekers would be easy not at 92 with lower soulforce lol. My soulforce went from like 14k-18k and im at 98 now.

Soulforce has nothing to do with that battle. Stop trying to backpedal. With an 8 level gap between yourselves, you would only suffer a 20% damage loss. Meanwhile, you would still have much better gear as a base combined with a slightly higher refine. A battle so easy you'd consider it "cake" would not suddenly become an insurmountable challenge under such minor handicaps. The fact of the matter is that either you were over-exaggerating, making a completely false claim, or you have a much lower level of skill than the seeker you fought did. I won't attempt to make any claims towards which of the three was the issue here, but either way you should simply concede instead of continuing such a charade.

You mods need to get it under control sure you can argue or w.e but you are getting into name calling and flaming to quickly this will be reported.

The only one calling names is you. The only one flaming is you. There is a difference between an argument and a discussion, something you should be able to understand if you are a mature and even slightly intelligent individual. Go ahead and threaten to report me or even send it in. It's blatantly obvious that you have not bothered reading at all, or are far too immature to accept a loss, and no rational person reading the conversation between us will see otherwise. Especially since staff can see exactly what has been edited in posts.

Edit: And once again, you've hilariously ignored my legitimate points. Instead, you've decided since calling me names didn't work you'll threaten me. I am so absolutely... not concerned in the slightest.

Anyone with better reading comprehension (or at the very least, common sense) wish to take a shot here? I'd love to have a real discussion with a person who didn't make me feel like I was trying to teach a log quantum physics.

Asterelle - Sanctuary · December 2013

Keep in mind a lvl 60 character does half damage to a lvl 100 character. Actually it could be much less than that due to greater effectively of defense vs low level characters.

Also that lvl 60 character won't be able to farm primordial blood and won't be able to farm much vitae. The blood lets you get 56% more pdef/mres and vitae gives you a passive spirit bonus. Those who try to stay at lvl 60 to exploit this are just going to get weaker and weaker over time.

I don't think even 100 attack levels would be enough to make up the offensive difference but the bonus to defense levels and HP can be a big factor. Still noone is going to want to stay at those levels for long. The problem will fix itself.

opkossy · December 2013

I'm hoping that's the case as well since I'm rather sure some will get the idea of making NW alts (like we don't already have enough alts for everything) to try and take advantage of the defensive benefits.

Of course, depending on how spirit winds up working out, it's quite likely it can overcome the defense. If that ends up being the case, people would have no reason at all to even consider it and we won't have to worry about it at all. I suppose it's one of those things we'd have to wait to be sure of. I, personally, don't have enough faith in most random people anymore to assume they wouldn't make some attempt to abuse this. I am happy that the people who actually matter in a fight (when I'm not playing on a lowbie, anyway) are also the ones least likely to bother staying at a low level because of TW, Vitae, and so on. b:surrender

ovenusarmanio · December 2013

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Still noone is going to want to stay at those levels for long. The problem will fix itself.

This is actually one of the points that makes me even more irritated by the whole thing, tbh. The disadvantages will make most people want to level out of that area quickly. So any disadvantage they as a person received in nation wars will be shortlived. However on the larger scale, there will likely always be people reincarnating. In addition, I wouldn't put it past people to make alts to take advantage of it. Just look at the people who capped their alts to tourney level. Very few genuine lowbies do tourney. So the problem it's helping reborn people with is minor but it permanently changes the landscape for the worse for any all new players who will remain in those levels for varying amounts of time. If I'm explaining that well.

OFC the people to worry about it the most though will likely not be a bother because of the above mentioned points. I agree its noting wrong with waiting and seeing how this all plays out. I just think that it has the potential to be a very real (and permanent) problem for people who already at the biggest disadvantage. If you're going to put a handicap in the game, it should obviously go to the people with the least advantage because of game design. Not give people who already have a natural advantage against them an even larger one.

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also that lvl 60 character won't be able to farm primordial blood and won't be able to farm much vitae. The blood lets you get 56% more pdef/mres and vitae gives you a passive spirit bonus. Those who try to stay at lvl 60 to exploit this are just going to get weaker and weaker over time.

.

You are so wrong. I know several people that sit their r9 alt at lvl 69 just for NW.

Tbh I really dunno how you people can claim that blessing doesn't make much difference. Do you even notice when someone has it? Every time I click on person 90% people have that blessing on.

Toddloveleah if you didn't noticed big of the diff when you had it, maybe its because your gear is not OP. I'm talking about reborn OP people with great refines aka soul force. Already huge att or deff lvl and HP which is boost by blessing makes them impossible to kill. My gear is close to something that consider as op gear and I'm against it because REBORN PEOPLE DON'T NEED THAT BLESSING.

And btw get off your high horse and stop raging on MOD just cause he stated better facts then you. He is normal player like we are and he is in titled to have his opinion. The one that flaming thread is actually you.

And this problem wont go away like, there will be always someone who is reborn, and majority of the people still didn't reborn for the 2nd time.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide · December 2013

Lol people getting mad cause they already took their chars to 100 with spam fc without thinking that the could have got they buff. KEKEKEKE
I for one think it's hilarious one shorting things i couldn't usually.
Look on the bright side. You could just rebirth again and not forget things

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · December 2013

I agree the buff should be removed from reincarnated people.

I also agree the buff isn't overpowered until you get to the end game (gear) stage, and already have insane atk/def levels.

It's just like anything else in this game, early on it isn't so bad/that much of a nuisance, until you get to the 'extreme'... ergo its not so bad if the reincarnated person is underpowered aka under geared, but when they are geared like a badass... this buff just adds on to their already overpowered abilities.

Whether we may want to admit it or not people will find that to be just enough of a incentive to stick around the lower levels to have an easier time killing others, but in the same sense I can so see why people would want to get on back to 100+, especially with bh rewards/the extra stat points, all the other things that only become possible at 100+... still I can see a few people sticking around the early levels.

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · December 2013

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol people getting mad cause they already took their chars to 100 with spam fc without thinking that the could have got they buff. KEKEKEKE
I for one think it's hilarious one shorting things i couldn't usually.
Look on the bright side. You could just rebirth again and not forget things

I didn't forgot about blessing nub.. I sad I used it while I was 90-100 lvl thats why I'm against it because I USED IT!

Even I cant ware it anymore, with my gear, I don't need it tbh. I'm talking about (AGAIN) people that should have advantage by using it in the first place. We toke their only advantage in nw, but guess you are ok with it because you, obviously, don't care about anyone beside yourself .

Cantabrum - Archosaur · January 2014

just a temporal problem dont remove it it help low lvls

b:cute

Temptatio/V - Dreamweaver · January 2014

Cantabrum - Archosaur wrote: »

just a temporal problem dont remove it it help low lvls b:cute

Read at least title if you so lazy to read all thread. Blessing should be removed for reborn people no for low lvls.

HunterRich - Heavens Tear · January 2014

as much as i agree that it probably makes NW more unballanced then it already is, i quite enjoyed the one NW i did on my Archer at lvl68 reborn. i have G16 Nirvana gear including Bow, refines arent great yet +4-+6, but i had 182 atk lvl's and 130 def lvl's and 19k hp buffed. due to the fact my refines are still low and not well sharded yet i wouldnt say i was OP but i was able to hang better with those that are better geared including able to tank damage better from people i know who use to one shot me. that made NW's fun that night. i didnt really pay attention if i was doing more damage, i was more happy i was able to stay in battles longer and be a bit more helpful while not being a 1 shot. i havent done a NW since due to RL stuff but im almost into my 90's now so the buff bonus wont really matter anymore

Remove NW blessing for reborn people

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