More DEFENSE for Barbarians !!

Options
_NanbuK_ - Dreamweaver
_NanbuK_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 7 Arc User
edited February 2014 in Barbarian
Hello All Barbarians,

So i think we need more DEFENSE....all classes with new skills doing absurd atack , and Barbarians new skills or lvl 100 skills is very weak....and u know we get cata too..

NW? pfff.. no coments !!
Post edited by _NanbuK_ - Dreamweaver on
«1

Comments

  • Beleni - Dreamweaver
    Beleni - Dreamweaver Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Options
    Some endgame barbarians are dubbed '' Un-killable''
    Main reasons, their pimped out HP and defence Ratings.

    Barbarians can cycle through defence skills and stay close to perma tanking. if something else was added to the cycle, then they literally could perma tank any and all damage.

    Edit ::

    Don't get me wrong, i would love a new defensive skill at my disposal.
    but would it remove the challenge from the game? - Pvp wise
  • Salari - Raging Tide
    Salari - Raging Tide Posts: 2,102 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Options
    Yes i disagree as well, my current sage barbs build with r8r puts him at 8k mdef and 32k pdef with 26.5k hp fully buffed and I am no where complete with him(and probably never will because of arc). Refines are only +5 all around except a pdef neck. I estimated at final refines with the gear I wanted He would be pushing 40k+ hp close to 35k pdef and possibly upto 15k mdef.
    Marine - Marshall - Raging Tides - Retired
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver
    Yes, because people really need 900+ dex or 1000+ magic just for the lulz
  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Options
    We were supposed to get defensive skill with Def level during Panda form Update, but still nothing... And this is main reason we're getting so wrecked now, other classes have these benefits, while we dont have ANY
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Options
    I agree with the comments above.

    I'm a pure strength aps barb and buffed I have 20.2k hp, 30.4k pdef, and 8k mdef buffed. That's with a tt99 physical belt and +7 refine average. +7 is roughly 26.5% of the amount of hp that +12 adds, and I'm not even to my third circle on the meridian so have less than 30% of the stats given there. I also have a few more titles to get.

    So using a TT99/G15/G16 mix of gear at +7 average and only 3 vitality base I am almost hitting the pdef cap. My mdef is pretty shoddy but that's based on my build choices (the aps belt and gear, and no vit in the build) and not the classes fault. If I were to finish my meridians, titles, and up my gear and refines I could get both mdef and pdef somewhat near the cap before we ever look at the classes actual skills.

    Barbs have weak spots but def isn't one of them. You can argue defense levels are a weak spot, especially since being purged wreaks havoc on buffs that increase your resistance, but defensively we're pretty good: Invoke, Frighten, Devour, Solid Shield, Cornered Beast, Sunder, Bestial Rage (magic shield)... We have an anti-stun. We have stuns to buy us time. We have one of the fastest classes in the game. We can setup our genies for tanking and more importantly we can set them up so that we can link survival skills to make us pretty much tanky the entire time. We even have a purge skill to remove opponent attack buffs if needed.

    Our weaker spots are the need to go human to use many things like Violent Triumph, our self buffs, Cornered Beast... We also have very few heavy hitting skills. Armageddon is one, and Pdef debuffs + Bestial Onslaught combos are pretty good. Blood Rush can amp up our damage output. You said we our new skills and 100 skills are weak, but Berserker's Rage annihilates airborne targets and Clean Sweep hits very hard. We still have some general weakness to magic attacks and we lack anti-control skills as well as control skills (2 second stun, 50% chance to stun and 50% chance to freeze both for 4 seconds). Overall, though, we're still one of the best pvp classes in the game.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • thumbs
    thumbs Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Options
    Why is it always the strong classes that have someone that thinks improvement is needed? -Put this in the wiz forum for a laugh!
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Options
    thumbs wrote: »
    it always the strong classes that have someone that thinks improvement is needed?
    thumbs wrote: »
    Put this in the wiz forum

    ...lol? The one class that can still pretty much 1 shot an endgame barb while also having 30k pdef and mdef + purify proc?

    You just proved your own point.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Katinas - Morai
    Katinas - Morai Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Even if its not topic related the only thing barbs need is less recism towards demon barbs. Every new update puts sage barb step ahead and demon barb gets something just to say 'Hey you got something' eventhough it is useless stuff.

    P.S. The poster above me is lying
  • Flash_man - Lost City
    Flash_man - Lost City Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Katinas - Morai wrote: »
    Even if its not topic related the only thing barbs need is less recism towards demon barbs. Every new update puts sage barb step ahead and demon barb gets something just to say 'Hey you got something' eventhough it is useless stuff.

    P.S. The poster above me is lying

    +1 on racism on demon barbs b:cry
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Personally, I think a def lvl buff or a mdef buff would be helpful...


    b:cryb:avoid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower

    -Self-Proclaimed TW commentator of HT-
    -Certified Barbarian Master-
    -You gained +10 coolness points for viewing this signature-
    -Master of Coffee-
  • Untamed_Pav - Harshlands
    Untamed_Pav - Harshlands Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I agree with the comments above.

    I'm a pure strength aps barb ...

    And then I quit reading.

    Pav
  • Atropah - Sanctuary
    Atropah - Sanctuary Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Untamed_Pav - Harshlands wrote: »
    And then I quit reading.

    Pav

    Welcome to pwi since apparently its the first time you've played since 2009.
  • Walpurga - Dreamweaver
    Walpurga - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,028 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Untamed_Pav - Harshlands wrote: »
    And then I quit reading.

    Pav

    Let me correct that to

    "I am a pure str barb with better accuracy, dps and PVE aggro wink wink"

    b:laugh
    Channels

    youtube .com/user/WallyPWS Active

    youtube .com/user/tehnewblife Semi Inactive
  • Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear
    Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    To be fair, tomorrow will be a bad day to be a tank. Every class is getting more damage and more debuff, including barbs. Looks like Devs in china want barbs to be more of a DD class than a tank class.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Alphaben - Raging Tide
    Alphaben - Raging Tide Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Options
    Magnanimous_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    To be fair, tomorrow will be a bad day to be a tank. Every class is getting more damage and more debuff, including barbs. Looks like Devs in china want barbs to be more of a DD class than a tank class.

    True...But the reawakening system will probably be broken for a few days b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide
    KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    I agree that new survival skills are required.

    The insane increase in damage, specially from the Avatar card system and the new skills far outweighs the increase in defense introduced from the passive primal skills.

    Anyone who claims endgame barbs are "unkillable" etc has never seen a barb with multiple r9r2 +12 DD's on them. A handful of r9r2 +12 DD and either a purge or hf is enough to toast any barb regardless of gear. Now imagine TW against top factions in game where out of the 80 allowable players, 65-70 are r9r2, and (thanks to orb glitch) they are all +10 weapon, with about 1/3 +12. The barb will only last as long as IG, Invoke, Spark and AD will last. Solid shield and magic charms help alongside a good cata cleric, but it's hard enough with lag trying to time apoc/skills. Now introduce the broken seeker and cleric skills that deal full damage through Invoke and even that isn't safe.

    It would be nice if barbs got a passive magic resistance skill. These days you can't count on buffs, and it would be more fair than giving us defense levels. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide wrote: »
    *snip or length*

    Bm's first plox. *hides*

    ---

    Seriously shields are so ftw. :p b:avoid
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide
    KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Bm's first plox. *hides*

    ---

    Seriously shields are so ftw. :p b:avoid

    But BMs aren't sitting there like ducks in front of crystal or tower with a cata attached slowing them down!

    BM's run into groups, disable-ing them, hf-ing and letting other DD's clean up!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MackoSajt - Sanctuary
    MackoSajt - Sanctuary Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Its true! Demon panda form gives crit reduce for few secs after change form. How cool !! Archers/Sins with 45+% crit just hit with 40% chance !!!
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide wrote: »
    But BMs aren't sitting there like ducks in front of crystal or tower with a cata attached slowing them down!

    BM's run into groups, disable-ing them, hf-ing and letting other DD's clean up!

    Barbs are 'built' to do that, and they have very nice complimentary skills to make sure they live as long as possible.

    Sure bms have things going for them, but they still can't tank the damage in mass pvp like a barb can... even though I am not in end game gear, I have seen what the exact same gear does for my barb over my bm.... the barb imho has it easier. (but yea that is so an opinion)


    EDIT:

    ---

    Taking bm's out of the equation.

    Giving the tankiest class by far a def level boost would make them far harder to take down, even if there is a few people on them. (I can't see anyone actually wanting that other than a FEW select barbs themselves)
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Veneir - Dreamweaver
    Veneir - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,541 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Untamed_Pav - Harshlands wrote: »
    And then I quit reading.

    Pav

    I kind of went into that mode for just a second after I skimmed over everyone's posts and it was like
    "I'm ____ buffed" "buffed" "buffed" "buffed" "buffed" *eyerolls* *veno AoE purges everyone in the crowded room and walks away* You're welcome

    OTL____

    --joking aside.... I don't play a barb (I made one and he got to like, 20 :x) but any times I've seen one die (sort of discluding deaths in low levels but is kind of the same thing) it's been because of glitches inside dungeons/biting off way more than could chew for ones who don't have rediculous gears, and if they were chased by an entire mob of people in NW (so like actual compeditive PvP gear) with a veno purge.
    I'm a little rusty but yeah takes a few people to take down well geared ones.
    "Clearly, the only logical option is Squid." -Decus <コ:彡 <コ:彡
    I'm helplessly needless, and needless to say I owe you | Well I'd pull, teeter away, at the earth with my teeth, to touch your face alive | You lie, helplessly still | As your face falls apart | Well I can make your face brand new | Come take my hand and I'll take your hand | And I will pull you out | Into the sun.
    First fell into an army of noob mobs on 19/3/2009~ Upside-down fox and old-colour squid <┻┻~ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I agree that new survival skills are required.

    The insane increase in damage, specially from the Avatar card system and the new skills far outweighs the increase in defense introduced from the passive primal skills.

    Anyone who claims endgame barbs are "unkillable" etc has never seen a barb with multiple r9r2 +12 DD's on them. A handful of r9r2 +12 DD and either a purge or hf is enough to toast any barb regardless of gear. Now imagine TW against top factions in game where out of the 80 allowable players, 65-70 are r9r2, and (thanks to orb glitch) they are all +10 weapon, with about 1/3 +12. The barb will only last as long as IG, Invoke, Spark and AD will last. Solid shield and magic charms help alongside a good cata cleric, but it's hard enough with lag trying to time apoc/skills. Now introduce the broken seeker and cleric skills that deal full damage through Invoke and even that isn't safe.

    It would be nice if barbs got a passive magic resistance skill. These days you can't count on buffs, and it would be more fair than giving us defense levels. b:victory

    Are you trying to say that an endgame barb should be able to solo a TW or what ?
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    In all fairness given the expansion, just build around the new defense passive in Primal World.

    You can argue that going full sapphire (either exclusive, incomp, or gems) in armor with maxed defense passive can be a very viable and budget build.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    b:flowerHave a Techno Rave Flower!b:flower

    -Self-Proclaimed TW commentator of HT-
    -Certified Barbarian Master-
    -You gained +10 coolness points for viewing this signature-
    -Master of Coffee-
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Agreed with KMA(KeepMeAlive) and Pav.

    Something you guys should be aware of, some of you are not putting what type of battle the barb is engaging in your posts.

    Equal geared, roughly equally skilled, 1v1 Barb VS Any. Yeah those def levels would be a pain in the *** to deal with.

    Mass PvP where people just love attacking barbs like a punching bag..... F*ck yes some extra def would be nice.

    Don't forget purges....

    Oh, did we all forget about the tower itself?


    Honestly, right now, what is the best thing going for a cata barb of R9rr+10 immac cits? A cleric of equal gears? Yeah that is some pretty epic heals, my wife is r9rr+12 and heals up to 24k+ at once. But with focused attacks that will only delay the death.

    And on, and on, and on, about the frog eating the snake and the snake eating the frog.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Mass PvP where people just love attacking barbs like a punching bag..... F*ck yes some extra def would be nice.

    Don't forget purges....

    Oh, did we all forget about the tower itself?

    And if Barbs were boosted to be able to go through all that unscathed with little to no support... then in literally every other situation where the barb isn't massively debuffed, purged of their buffs, and heavily focused fired by multiple endgame DDs... the Barb is, for all intents and purposes, invincible.

    That's not balance. That's not fair. That's a hilariously one-sided and brutally overpowered advantage. Being able to tank and soak up damage is one thing, but if those kinds of situations where you're getting massively focused on and gunned down aren't killing you, then something's wrong with the game or the class.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary
    Asterelle - Sanctuary Posts: 930 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Honestly, right now, what is the best thing going for a cata barb of R9rr+10 immac cits?

    There's a large difference between R999+10 immac cit and R999+12 JOSD/Vit. R999+10 is really kinda average gear these days for TW, especially with that orb fiasco. Most cata barb on sanc in top tier factions have better than that.

    Cards/Nuema honestly are as defensive as they are offensive and don't really change any balance in equal gear scenarios. Get some S cards in your longevity / durability to counter S cards in Battle / Destroyer. The passive defense skill in primal counters the added damage from the extra stat points and the passive damage boost is apparently a lot less damage than advertised.

    Really if you're finding yourself dying more now than before it's because you're not keeping up with the curve. The meta hasn't changed much and if anything purges/debuffs are getting less effective.
    [sigpic][/sigpic]
    PWI Calculators - aster.ohmydays.net/pw
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    OPKossy wrote: »
    And if Barbs were boosted to be able to go through all that unscathed with little to no support... then in literally every other situation where the barb isn't massively debuffed, purged of their buffs, and heavily focused fired by multiple endgame DDs... the Barb is, for all intents and purposes, invincible.

    That's not balance. That's not fair. That's a hilariously one-sided and brutally overpowered advantage. Being able to tank and soak up damage is one thing, but if those kinds of situations where you're getting massively focused on and gunned down aren't killing you, then something's wrong with the game or the class.

    I remember most of what that old def skill was suppose to be, 40 defense levels for 60 seconds. I'm certain it required at least 1 spark and had a 120 second cool down or longer.

    But since mods seem to have a folder of conveniently quick-to-access links I'm sure you could find that old post somewhere. f:scared

    And also, Kossy, not every barb is the same as those end-game barbs playing cata-tw. I'm unsure about you, but I'm almost certain the end-game barbs coming to my mind do not do the regular stuff in the rest of the game, they mostly just sign-on for big PvP events or if they're bored.

    Would these cata-tw barbs PK all the time? Lolno, charms are expensive. I quit QQme just because charms and attendance were mandatory, that and I felt like my gears were holding up the line more than helping (I'm r9rr+7 immac cit). Oh, and of course I was carpet bombed by not just the tower, but also purges and focused attacks.

    I would also like to point out that some of the strongest players on RT do infact hit me inside invoke for over 1k base. Can you imagine that without invoke or some sort of protection?


    Back to your original argument of these same barbs taking their advantage into regular combat I can understand, but those barbs are far and few between, their gears literally cost thousands of dollars, with a thousand hours or more of game-time.

    Edit 1: typo
    Edit 2: I wonder how many times I've seen Man go PK? Once for sure, that was maybe half a year ago to date is my bet. I don't even like PK but I'll turn it on and have a little un-charmed fun once in a while, I go PK more than he will.

    What server do you play on btw, Kossy?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    You're not meant to survive vs. 10+ people at a time. No one is. This is why it's your support's job to push back and kill whatever's trying to kill the cata barbs. Pretty much it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    You're not meant to survive vs. 10+ people at a time. No one is. This is why it's your support's job to push back and kill whatever's trying to kill the cata barbs. Pretty much it.

    True that...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Barbarian 103 - 101 - 101
    Started playing on March 2010
  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I remember most of what that old def skill was suppose to be, 40 defense levels for 60 seconds. I'm certain it required at least 1 spark and had a 120 second cool down or longer.

    I was so excited to get that skill, and now arond 10 months later, still waiting b:cry
  • OoArCsTeRoO - Sanctuary
    OoArCsTeRoO - Sanctuary Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Options
    People need to understand that there is a thin line between buffing up a toon and making it OP. PWI CANNOT make barbs more defensive coz a full +12 JOSD/VIT barb (with +12 ornies) is very very very tanky.

    The problem with barbs is that it needs 9 pieces to be +12 compared to a wizard or other arcanes which just need a +12 weapon with +10 armors to do their job in TW. For a cata barb if you are +10 immaculates you would die even through 100 str solid shield depending on how much DDs are on you.

    Barbs have got enough defense and are very OP, its just that they require insane amount of money to be put in to reach that level of OPness, so if you give barbs more defense those 3-4 barbs with end game maxed out gears on your server will become just broken.

    Though if they do give barbs more defensive skills i wouldnt mind :D

Categories