Why Blade Tornado Got Nerfed?

Dartwave - Sanctuary
Dartwave - Sanctuary Posts: 114 Arc User
edited November 2013 in General Discussion
Pls can any gm tell me why blade tornado got nerfed and why there was no announcement?
Im sure it got nerfed , made many dmg tests on same ppl with same gears and suddendly the dmg passed from 24k to 10k (same gears ) .
Post edited by Dartwave - Sanctuary on
«1

Comments

  • Boomz - Harshlands
    Boomz - Harshlands Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    there was no nurf, and if there was, good. The skill is too strong because it ignores defense lvs. It is almost hacking vs psys and seekers who solely rely on defense lvs.
    ░░░░███████]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
    ▂▄▅█████████▅▄▃▂ cause i can't make art, so i made
    ◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤this awesome tank.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 1 shot king. LV 150 FSP bosses hit for 3m. Top Player hit record: 652,656.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Boomz - Harshlands wrote: »
    there was no nurf, and if there was, good. The skill is too strong because it ignores defense lvs. It is almost hacking vs psys and seekers who solely rely on defense lvs.

    That may be the nerf he's noticed: it no longer bypasses defense levels.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    It got changed when all the other ignore defense level skills got changed. Was just not as obvious as the other changes.
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited November 2013
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    That may be the nerf he's noticed: it no longer bypasses defense levels.
    CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It got changed when all the other ignore defense level skills got changed. Was just not as obvious as the other changes.
    Which should be noted, it wasn't a Nerf, it was fixing a glitch.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dartwave - Sanctuary
    Dartwave - Sanctuary Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wtf edged blur still ignores my def lv !! why that one didn't get nerfed? absorb soul as well
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited November 2013
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wtf edged blur still ignores my def lv !! why that one didn't get nerfed? absorb soul as well

    Absorb soul was designed that way. Not sure about edged blur though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wtf edged blur still ignores my def lv !! why that one didn't get nerfed? absorb soul as well

    There are several posts (with tests), in the mystics forum, showing that level 11 Absorb Soul doesn't bypass def level anymore (for months...)
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Dartwave - Sanctuary
    Dartwave - Sanctuary Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    i did tests too ... when absorb soul hit 5 times more than nature's vengeance (without nature's vengeance amp) there must be some def lv bypass :S
    Can any gm or any technician give me an answer on real features of those 3 skills ?
  • klys
    klys Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    absorb soul - lv 10 and below ignore your attack level and enemy def lv. Lv 11 Takes both into consideration.
  • Bragepage - Sanctuary
    Bragepage - Sanctuary Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i did tests too ... when absorb soul hit 5 times more than nature's vengeance (without nature's vengeance amp) there must be some def lv bypass :S
    Can any gm or any technician give me an answer on real features of those 3 skills ?

    Did u use it on me. Yet o: b:mischievousb:mischievous
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Dartwave - Sanctuary
    Dartwave - Sanctuary Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LOOOOOOOL DUDE !! im a bm not a mystic !! i can't test that on u LOL
  • Bragepage - Sanctuary
    Bragepage - Sanctuary Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    LOOOOOOOL DUDE !! im a bm not a mystic !! i can't test that on u LOL

    LOOOOL momsteen
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CapnK - Sanctuary
    CapnK - Sanctuary Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Which should be noted, it wasn't a Nerf, it was fixing a glitch.

    Nothing glitchy about it, just the way the game works. These skills are stronger now than before if you have good gear since they use your attack levels. They're just weaker for low geared people.

    Only difference now is psys can survive in white voodoo and seekers come out better than before. All the other classes take more damage than before if you've got r999 attack levels.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wtf edged blur still ignores my def lv !! why that one didn't get nerfed? absorb soul as well

    Absorb Soul no longer ignores defense levels. Go grab a Psychic and test.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands
    Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands Posts: 7,231 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Absorb Soul no longer ignores defense levels. Go grab a Psychic and test.

    Lvl 1-10 AS do ignore def lvl, it's lvl 11 that doesn't.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    b:dirty "I **** rainbows and love everyone"-Longknife b:cute
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    All levels of absorb soul take into account defense levels. The reason it's hitting so hard isn't because of ignoring defense levels...it's because it takes ATTACK levels into account. For R9rr BM's, blade tornado/absrob soul both got a HUGE buff because of this - most R9rr have 120+ attack levels and under 50 d. levels. (correct me if I'm wrong though- does Blade Tornado take attack levels into account?)

    Also because the average absorb soul does equivalent damage to a crit base + 400% magic attack skill, though this shoots up depending on how much you amp your base.

    So yeah it's a nerf for BM's without R9/jones blessing. I guess another slight change to push people towards R9 and better.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    All levels of absorb soul take into account defense levels. The reason it's hitting so hard isn't because of ignoring defense levels...it's because it takes ATTACK levels into account. For R9rr BM's, blade tornado/absrob soul both got a HUGE buff because of this - most R9rr have 120+ attack levels and under 50 d. levels. (correct me if I'm wrong though- does Blade Tornado take attack levels into account?)

    Also because the average absorb soul does equivalent damage to a crit base + 400% magic attack skill, though this shoots up depending on how much you amp your base.

    So yeah it's a nerf for BM's without R9/jones blessing. I guess another slight change to push people towards R9 and better.

    Don't you mean push them away from the class? b:quiet

    I am sure that isn't what they're trying to do, but still if a class is really hard to enjoy in pre end game gear, a majority of people will question if it's worth it to get r9 on the class that they are having a hard time tolerating.

    Sure bms have some real nice skills, and once they can survive they do become a lot easier to enjoy, but anything before epic gear can (<-- keyword) be quite nightmarish. (especially if you can take the same non-end game gear to another class and do far and away a lot better... though yes it has a lot to do with the skills built into the class/the play styles etc, but still if a majority of the ppl playing a class finds it intolerable they are likely to just leave that class alone, and get r9 on another class... which is sad I know, but it is what has been happening with the bm class... sadly. D:)

    EDIT: As far as the blade tornado skill goes... I have no idea if it's been changed or not... as I have unforunately left behind my bm in favor of a new class. (Which saddens me deeply. D:)
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • klys
    klys Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    absorb soul lv 10 and below doesn't factor attack or def lvs. It's not that hard to test.

    Lv 11 is still better because it does take both into account and your attack lv is usually higher than opponents def lv, plus it has a proc and does more damage.
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Don't you mean push them away from the class? b:quiet

    I am sure that isn't what they're trying to do, but still if a class is really hard to enjoy in pre end game gear, a majority of people will question if it's worth it to get r9 on the class that they are having a hard time tolerating.

    Sure bms have some real nice skills, and once they can survive they do become a lot easier to enjoy, but anything before epic gear can (<-- keyword) be quite nightmarish. (especially if you can take the same non-end game gear to another class and do far and away a lot better... though yes it has a lot to do with the skills built into the class/the play styles etc, but still if a majority of the ppl playing a class finds it intolerable they are likely to just leave that class alone, and get r9 on another class... which is sad I know, but it is what has been happening with the bm class... sadly. D:)

    EDIT: As far as the blade tornado skill goes... I have no idea if it's been changed or not... as I have unforunately left behind my bm in favor of a new class. (Which saddens me deeply. D:)

    Well G16 nirvana + jones gives +90 attk levels, while the average R9rr has 30-50 def lvls...so even for an average G16 BM it should be a buff.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well G16 nirvana + jones gives +90 attk levels, while the average R9rr has 30-50 def lvls...so even for an average G16 BM it should be a buff.

    :$ Indeed... would definitely be nice to know if it is effected by atk levels. (EDIT:! From capnk's post it certainly sounds like it is indeed effected by atk lvls.)

    Also for the record I realize they probably don't care which character you get r9 on, as long as you get r9 on one, or even more than 1, whether it be via buying gold from the AH, using real cash, or buying indirectly from other players who did use gold at one point to make items that can't be gotten from the boutique, however you do it, it is still money in their pocket. (Even if the item you bought is technically unavailable in the boutique... if the main items used does come from the boutique then one way or another, your technically supporting the game. :$ It's just that you may be doing a lot more indirectly... am sure they would prefer it if everyone spent cash on the game to get r9, etc... but still cash is cash to them. :P)

    *runs around in circles*
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Dartwave - Sanctuary
    Dartwave - Sanctuary Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ty all for answers :o
    At least they're going to increase the added dmg on blade tornado at expansion to 12k-20k if im not wrong b:victory
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Dartwave - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i did tests too ... when absorb soul hit 5 times more than nature's vengeance (without nature's vengeance amp) there must be some def lv bypass :S
    Can any gm or any technician give me an answer on real features of those 3 skills ?

    I don't get your point... Comparing with another skill is not a good way to do it because :
    1) The two skills obviously don't do the same amount of damage
    2) NV does wood damage when AS does non elemental damage

    A good way to test is :
    1) Use skill without weapon on someone with o'malley blessing
    2) Do it again on the same player without his o'malley blessing
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Sjuggs - Lost City
    Sjuggs - Lost City Posts: 617 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    "Nerfing" one of the most outdated classes... that's just cruel. b:shutupb:cryb:laugh
  • WenSon - Harshlands
    WenSon - Harshlands Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    i am fine with this fix. i am in for balancing out mistakes


    but why didnt bramble get fix ? when i have bramble sins still kill themself on me, since they get more dmg back than they deal.

    bramble dmg should only be a percentage of the actual dmg it deals

    i have the feeling u get bramble dmg before the defense of the person with bramble u hit gets counted. this way u get more dmg back. and that is totally ridicolous.
    pvp should be based on skill level. but when sins die on me without me doing anything its pointless.
  • SylenThunder - Twilight Temple
    SylenThunder - Twilight Temple Posts: 7,908
    edited November 2013
    WenSon - Harshlands wrote: »
    i am fine with this fix. i am in for balancing out mistakes


    but why didnt bramble get fix ? when i have bramble sins still kill themself on me, since they get more dmg back than they deal.

    bramble dmg should only be a percentage of the actual dmg it deals

    i have the feeling u get bramble dmg before the defense of the person with bramble u hit gets counted. this way u get more dmg back. and that is totally ridicolous.
    pvp should be based on skill level. but when sins die on me without me doing anything its pointless.
    It is only a percentage, but since it appears as damage coming from you, I think it additionally counts att/def levels on the return, which results in the increased damage numbers. Would have to do some testing to prove that theory though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It is only a percentage, but since it appears as damage coming from you, I think it additionally counts att/def levels on the return, which results in the increased damage numbers. Would have to do some testing to prove that theory though.

    I think is doesn't have to do with att/def lvls. More important than that would be the fact that sins are LA, and WenSon is a BM, therefore, I assume, HA. Sins are dealing physical damage and bramble reflects physical damage.

    Sins have always killed themselves on my barb's bramble, and always dealing more damage to themselves than to my barb, even in TT99 times.

    In other words, to make it clear: bramble reflects a % of the physical attack, not a % of the damage. So if the sin is hitting with 1,000 physical damage, demon bramble will hit him back as a melee attack of 750 p. attack. Let's say the BM has a 75% reduction from p.damage, taking 250 p.damage as a result, and the sin has 50%, taking 375 damage in the end.
  • Zoldi - Morai
    Zoldi - Morai Posts: 1,595 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    WenSon - Harshlands wrote: »

    but why didnt bramble get fix ? when i have bramble sins still kill themself on me, since they get more dmg back than they deal.

    bramble dmg should only be a percentage of the actual dmg it deals

    i have the feeling u get bramble dmg before the defense of the person with bramble u hit gets counted. this way u get more dmg back. and that is totally ridicolous.
    pvp should be based on skill level. but when sins die on me without me doing anything its pointless.

    In a way, I assume that in this situation you can say this is still based on skill level. Indeed a sin that APS a BM/Barb/Seeker buffed with bramble (this is even true for other classes) doesn't seem very skilled...
    ~ Sage Mystic 105-105-105 ~
    ~ Sage Sin 103-103-102 ~
    ~ Sage vita Barb 103-102-101 ~
    ~ Sage BM 102-101 ~ Demon Archer 102 ~
    ~ Sage Cleric 102 ~ Demon Wizard 101 ~
    ~ Sage Seeker 101 ~ Sage Psy 101 ~
    ~ Sage Heavy Veno 101 ~ Demon Storm 9X ~ Dusk 6x ~
    Started playing this game in 2007 on Oracle (PW-MY) : Demon MG 101 - Sage EP 99 - WF 89
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    APSing a HA class with bramble on is not the smartest thing to do...Bramble doesn't even work in open world PK anyway. It's just TW/NW. I'm unaware if it works in events.

    Bramble returns 60%/75% of auto-attacks but only 20%/25% of skill damage, people really shouldn't be APSing a brambled target. If people are unhappy with Bramble then they should make it a self-buff only for Venomancers, not nerf it.
    [SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
    ★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★
  • FistToDeath - Dreamweaver
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver Posts: 482 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If people are unhappy with Bramble then they should make it a self-buff only for Venomancers, not nerf it.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Maybe it'd be ok if they made it caster-only, just like BP is melee only. But self-cast? NO WAY, NO, DON'T SAY THAT, THEY MIGHT HEAR YOU.
  • Jarkhen - Archosaur
    Jarkhen - Archosaur Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    FistToDeath - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Maybe it'd be ok if they made it caster-only, just like BP is melee only. But self-cast? NO WAY, NO, DON'T SAY THAT, THEY MIGHT HEAR YOU.

    And archers get none of the love D:
    Current: http://mypers.pw/1.8/#133167
    105-103-102

    TW/NW Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/Axel3200

    Some people get R93 and become another cookiecutter DD, other people get R93 and get called out as serious threats. At some point, it's just not about gear anymore. - Qui
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Categories