A question for smart people that know the ToS

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

So i am posing this question for people to answer because i wanna see how well people actually know the ToS for pwi. I would appreciate that if you DONT actually know the answer for this for sure to please not respond....even though ik many will.

In a PvE server such as Raging Tide can constantly farming the same person in pk considered to be harrassment. As in if you clearly out gear the person and can one shot them and/or force them to stay in Safety Zone is that considered harrassment?

To clarify again....i am more speaking of how an R9rr player farming lower geared players repeatedly.....like more than 3 times....i am not speaking of equal geared players consensually pking each other.

Also.....is it true that just because you put money into the game that you CAN'T or WON'T get banned for harrassment? I am positive that is not true but some people that i have spoken with seem to think they are immune to it so i would like people that im sure have been banned and do Cash Shop to speak up and let others know u can get banned regardless of you money you put in the game.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur · November 2013

Farming somebody can fall under harassment. There is no set amount after which its considered harassment but depends on person reading ticket. I know for a fact somebody got banned for farming people in PK on Archo.

krisnda · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

So i am posing this question for people to answer because i wanna see how well people actually know the ToS for pwi. I would appreciate that if you DONT actually know the answer for this for sure to please not respond....even though ik many will.

In a PvE server such as Raging Tide can constantly farming the same person in pk considered to be harrassment. As in if you clearly out gear the person and can one shot them and/or force them to stay in Safety Zone is that considered harrassment?

Yes.

To clarify again....i am more speaking of how an R9rr player farming lower geared players repeatedly.....like more than 3 times....i am not speaking of equal geared players consensually pking each other.

Again, yes.

Also.....is it true that just because you put money into the game that you CAN'T or WON'T get banned for harrassment? I am positive that is not true but some people that i have spoken with seem to think they are immune to it so i would like people that im sure have been banned and do Cash Shop to speak up and let others know u can get banned regardless of you money you put in the game.

If you think this is true, you clearly don't know the TOS. But to answer, no. You can be banned no matter how much money you put in the game.

Answers in red.

Sizzer - Raging Tide · November 2013

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

There is no set amount after which its considered harassment but depends on person reading ticket.

Support Staffs are flooded with tickets everyday so they mostly try to bypass most of the tickets they get.

Annastasia - Lost City · November 2013

a few months ago i would have said one can just turn on pk on a pve server but i have been told due to recent changes to pk areas this can't be done in some areas.

a few years ago on Harshlands server several people claimed to have been banned due to harassment of others. specifically in the area of SP where people went to do their culti's. a few of these people were on my friends list and were not online for awhile so i tend to believe that they were actually banned.

since that time, i think that the GM's have rotated a few times so there is no consistency in the upholding of this part of the TOS. Harshalnds is a PVP server so i expected pk there and never in my wildest dreams thought it was possible to get banned for participating in pvp.

funny story: there was a player from the guild Kylin that was getting an attorney to sue PWI for allowing another player to "interrupt his game play" with pvp and costing him irl money ticking his charm. obviously an empty threat but was a good laugh for months.

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

The biggest problem with this is of course the fact that the ticket system is horrid and slow. Submitting a ticket is no guarantee to get another person banned for harrassment. I am sure having ample SS proof of the events u say are harrassment will help but even then it seems that they dont ban people for it as much as they should. I personally question what sorta of time or energy they are able to even put into the ticket system. Of course if they had proper GMs....as in if they had GMs that were actually online on their GM character in each server at all times or most of the time LIKE THEY SHOULD, then most of us players wouldnt have to use a ticket system. Although im sure that would be an exhausting job having to constantly police one server it would be much more viable then this fail ticket system assuming the GM was proper about it.

ovenusarmanio · November 2013

Except PK harassment is something that wouldn't be able to take care of without context just watching west anyway. That person could be repeated one-shotting that person as a joke, it could be a guildie, that person could be sending them rude pms, etc. They can't possibly monitor every single last person's private chats, guild chats, squad chats, world chats, and the likely hundreds of areas common chat can be viewed since it certainly seems to by some kind of small meter range as opposed to by city in a real-time basis. You have to call the police IRL for certain types of issues as well, even if you live in a relatively crime-free area with lots of police patrolling. I DO think that PWI should have GMs in-game monitoring things more often, and that they should be using that mute function on players when they are invisible in-game doing this or that. We also need more GM interaction in the forums. But this isn't really one of those types of issues. This type of issue needs to be looked at case by case and greater context than a cursory glance should be used. Just because someone is in PK mode and getting killed repeatedly doesn't mean they are being harassed. In PVE server you really have to think about why it's happening even more so, since PVP is completely optional. So I really think this is should be handled by tickets regardless of the GM involvement and lack thereof and the two are mostly separate issues imo.

And yes, I have personally seen cashers get banned.

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Except PK harassment is something that wouldn't be able to take care of without context just watching west anyway. That person could be repeated one-shotting that person as a joke, it could be a guildie, that person could be sending them rude pms, etc. They can't possibly monitor every single last person's private chats, guild chats, squad chats, world chats, and the likely hundreds of areas common chat can be viewed since it certainly seems to by some kind of small meter range as opposed to by city in a real-time basis. You have to call the police IRL for certain types of issues as well, even if you live in a relatively crime-free area with lots of police patrolling. I DO think that PWI should have GMs in-game monitoring things more often, and that they should be using that mute function on players when they are invisible in-game doing this or that. We also need more GM interaction in the forums. But this isn't really one of those types of issues. This type of issue needs to be looked at case by case and greater context than a cursory glance should be used. Just because someone is in PK mode and getting killed repeatedly doesn't mean they are being harassed. In PVE server you really have to think about why it's happening even more so, since PVP is completely optional. So I really think this is should be handled by tickets regardless of the GM involvement and lack thereof and the two are mostly separate issues imo.

And yes, I have personally seen cashers get banned.

Well regardless of the whole aspect of trolling...say if someone way over geared than another person kills a lower geared player.....and that player asks them to stop pking them for whatever reason...but they continue....is that harrassment?

DeathsDzN - Raging Tide · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

So i am posing this question for people to answer because i wanna see how well people actually know the ToS for pwi. I would appreciate that if you DONT actually know the answer for this for sure to please not respond....even though ik many will.

In a PvE server such as Raging Tide can constantly farming the same person in pk considered to be harrassment. As in if you clearly out gear the person and can one shot them and/or force them to stay in Safety Zone is that considered harrassment?

If you're constantly insulting them and goading them into it, NO. You might end the one being banned

To clarify again....i am more speaking of how an R9rr player farming lower geared players repeatedly.....like more than 3 times....i am not speaking of equal geared players consensually pking each other.

Points to above

Also.....is it true that just because you put money into the game that you CAN'T or WON'T get banned for harrassment? I am positive that is not true but some people that i have spoken with seem to think they are immune to it so i would like people that im sure have been banned and do Cash Shop to speak up and let others know u can get banned regardless of you money you put in the game.

I Know a quite a few cash shoppers that have been banned

Answers in red. b:bye

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Except PK harassment is something that wouldn't be able to take care of without context just watching west anyway. That person could be repeated one-shotting that person as a joke, it could be a guildie, that person could be sending them rude pms, etc. They can't possibly monitor every single last person's private chats, guild chats, squad chats, world chats, and the likely hundreds of areas common chat can be viewed since it certainly seems to by some kind of small meter range as opposed to by city in a real-time basis.

Pretty much this.

Longknife - Harshlands · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

So i am posing this question for people to answer because i wanna see how well people actually know the ToS for pwi. I would appreciate that if you DONT actually know the answer for this for sure to please not respond....even though ik many will.

In a PvE server such as Raging Tide can constantly farming the same person in pk considered to be harrassment. As in if you clearly out gear the person and can one shot them and/or force them to stay in Safety Zone is that considered harrassment?

To clarify again....i am more speaking of how an R9rr player farming lower geared players repeatedly.....like more than 3 times....i am not speaking of equal geared players consensually pking each other.

Also.....is it true that just because you put money into the game that you CAN'T or WON'T get banned for harrassment? I am positive that is not true but some people that i have spoken with seem to think they are immune to it so i would like people that im sure have been banned and do Cash Shop to speak up and let others know u can get banned regardless of you money you put in the game.

Harassment goes down like this:

1) You MUST PM the person and politely ask them to stop. General chat won't work because they can claim they hadn't seen the message (different tab) and you must ask politely.
You may think "why?" Well, it's quite simple really, and quite clever: I literally struggle to name a day of an event where an opposing faction doesn't threaten to report me. The thing is though, they're actively fighting me. The messages I get are often "stop you ****ing **** or I'll ban you" or the like.
The reason this is so different from a polite message is because a polite one sends the message to the PWI team that "I am truly troubled by this person and/or they are hindering my enjoyment of the game," whereas a rude message sends the message of "I got butthurt because I lost to my enemy." Also, people in grudgefights with their enemies have difficulty swallowing their pride to ask politely because it's basically admitting defeat (from their perspective); sure enough, I've yet to be banned despite constant threats because not a single person can manage to be polite about it; their intentions are spite, not pure. Take a look at this video for a sample of the kinds of threats that simply will not be taken seriously by the PWI staff. (watch the chat for responses by dead people)

So remember it MUST be a PM to prove they saw it or had every opportunity to see it and it MUST be polite to prove you're truly just trying to avoid conflict with this person.

2) They must kill you multiple times and you must have evidence of the kills continuing after you politely asked to stop. Screenshot your PMs and remember the time this happened. PWI will ask you when it happened because they have a way to check chats, and they'll do so to make sure you're not BSing them. If you forgot to check the time, the screenshots automatically list the time and date they were taken. (your timezone though, so you'll have to convert to server time)
You do NOT need the person to actually respond to your PM to get them reported, you just need to prove you've tried to communicate with them.

So on that note, people who receive polite requests to stop: remember it is a game, remember this is the person -basically- saying "hey, I'm threatening to report you" and remember that if someone can swallow their pride enough to ask politely, they're probably sincere in their claim that they just want you to stop and aren't doing this out of spite.
Likewise, if you find yourself in a PK battle and you have a butthurt opponent suddenly PMing you polite messages that send a flag of "he's trying to report me," politely reply back that this is clearly a guild conflict and/or a fight that person is willingly taking part in, then kill them harder for being butthurt enough to try and report over PK.

And as for if cash shoppers can get banned?

And I quote: "We are not required to uphold the rules of the ToS guidelines and enact them upon every single player and every single violation." Take that as you like, though if you read between the lines it's pretty obvious the intention.

ovenusarmanio · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well regardless of the whole aspect of trolling...say if someone way over geared than another person kills a lower geared player.....and that player asks them to stop pking them for whatever reason...but they continue....is that harrassment?

It's decided case by case. It could be considered harassment, or it could not be. Depends on the circumstances. It isn't as simple as that, especially on a pve server where the question "why didn't you just opt out?" comes into question. Most you can do is submit a screenshot and hope for the best. They specifically have the TOS worded the way it is so that people being banned can't try to wiggle out of it by exploiting loopholes, and so that they can use their own personal discretion as to whether or not someone being reported should be banned. I've seen cashers get banned, merchants(f2p) get away with murder (at least imo) and everything in between. But I don't have access to the chat logs that they do. The more screenshots you have and the more specific you can be, the better. But still, it's case by case. Nobody here can say that person will or will not be banned. It is totally up to the GMs.

Oonica - Raging Tide · November 2013

Why not read the ToS?

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Harassment goes down like this:

1) You MUST PM the person and politely ask them to stop. General chat won't work because they can claim they hadn't seen the message (different tab) and you must ask politely.
You may think "why?" Well, it's quite simple really, and quite clever: I literally struggle to name a day of an event where an opposing faction doesn't threaten to report me. The thing is though, they're actively fighting me. The messages I get are often "stop you ****ing **** or I'll ban you" or the like.
The reason this is so different from a polite message is because a polite one sends the message to the PWI team that "I am truly troubled by this person and/or they are hindering my enjoyment of the game," whereas a rude message sends the message of "I got butthurt because I lost to my enemy." Also, people in grudgefights with their enemies have difficulty swallowing their pride to ask politely because it's basically admitting defeat (from their perspective); sure enough, I've yet to be banned despite constant threats because not a single person can manage to be polite about it; their intentions are spite, not pure. Take a look at this video for a sample of the kinds of threats that simply will not be taken seriously by the PWI staff. (watch the chat for responses by dead people)

So remember it MUST be a PM to prove they saw it or had every opportunity to see it and it MUST be polite to prove you're truly just trying to avoid conflict with this person.

2) They must kill you multiple times and you must have evidence of the kills continuing after you politely asked to stop. Screenshot your PMs and remember the time this happened. PWI will ask you when it happened because they have a way to check chats, and they'll do so to make sure you're not BSing them. If you forgot to check the time, the screenshots automatically list the time and date they were taken. (your timezone though, so you'll have to convert to server time)
You do NOT need the person to actually respond to your PM to get them reported, you just need to prove you've tried to communicate with them.

So on that note, people who receive polite requests to stop: remember it is a game, remember this is the person -basically- saying "hey, I'm threatening to report you" and remember that if someone can swallow their pride enough to ask politely, they're probably sincere in their claim that they just want you to stop and aren't doing this out of spite.
Likewise, if you find yourself in a PK battle and you have a butthurt opponent suddenly PMing you polite messages that send a flag of "he's trying to report me," politely reply back that this is clearly a guild conflict and/or a fight that person is willingly taking part in, then kill them harder for being butthurt enough to try and report over PK.

And as for if cash shoppers can get banned?

And I quote: "We are not required to uphold the rules of the ToS guidelines and enact them upon every single player and every single violation." Take that as you like, though if you read between the lines it's pretty obvious the intention.

This is a very good and well formed answer. I do however have one question. Where does it say they have to kill you multiple times for it to be harrassment and how many times exactly?

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

Oonica - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why not read the ToS?

If you actually had read my post you would have seen that I already knew the answer and was just asking the player base for clarification. If i wanted to read the ToS myself i am more than capable of doing so but ty for that.....as for your actual linked ToS......+1

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2013

i think i read somewhere in the past that aside from just killing over and over (especially on a pvp server which pking is suppose to be common) when it disrupts your gameplay aka pve in a pvp environment, specifically 'questing', then it becomes a notable harassment issue. There was a debate a few years ago on this, still probably there buried in the threads lol

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

i think i read somewhere in the past that aside from just killing over and over (especially on a pvp server which pking is suppose to be common) when it disrupts your gameplay aka pve in a pvp environment, specifically 'questing', then it becomes a notable harassment issue. There was a debate a few years ago on this, still probably there buried in the threads lol

This is a good point and i have known of this. It states on the ToS that specifically that no player may impede another players ability to play the game in any way (such as pking a player doing pve or if that player is involved in a player created event) The stipulations to this rule are probably very sketchy. In my eyes that could mean anything....to the point of if i am involved in a 1v1 pk fight with another player and a better geared player comes and destroys me in the middle of our 1v1 that it could be considered harrassment...however many people just refer to this as ganking and it seems to be a regular thing now so the actually validity of that statement i just made is probably debatable.

OFate - Heavens Tear · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

The biggest problem with this is of course the fact that the ticket system is horrid and slow. Submitting a ticket is no guarantee to get another person banned for harrassment. I am sure having ample SS proof of the events u say are harrassment will help but even then it seems that they dont ban people for it as much as they should. I personally question what sorta of time or energy they are able to even put into the ticket system. Of course if they had proper GMs....as in if they had GMs that were actually online on their GM character in each server at all times or most of the time LIKE THEY SHOULD, then most of us players wouldnt have to use a ticket system. Although im sure that would be an exhausting job having to constantly police one server it would be much more viable then this fail ticket system assuming the GM was proper about it.

I think most of this comes down to just sticking to the facts, locations, times - and screen shots as you said.

Keep it simple, to the point and void of insults and name calling.

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

So i was pondering this post and came to another question that goes along with this that I am actually now curious of. Going based on the current discussion of this thread...is having someone on a Kill on sight...KoS....considered harrassment and/or a bannable offense? I know many people/factions use this term and put people on these lists saying that anyone affiliated with them should kill on sight the person on the list, and seeing as how the current discussion is you would think that is bannable. Does anyone have any insight on the actually legality of KoS in regards to the ToS and how it applies to this?

OFate - Heavens Tear · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

So i was pondering this post and came to another question that goes along with this that I am actually now curious of. Going based on the current discussion of this thread...is having someone on a Kill on sight...KoS....considered harrassment and/or a bannable offense? I know many people/factions use this term and put people on these lists saying that anyone affiliated with them should kill on sight the person on the list, and seeing as how the current discussion is you would think that is bannable. Does anyone have any insight on the actually legality of KoS in regards to the ToS and how it applies to this?

I think they mean griefing a person doing oracles, trying to kill a boss they need and basically ensuring they don't get done - what they need done.

I also think this means making a concerted effort to find the person by tracking them down and killing them. If they move, finding them again and killing them.

True, in the past I've griefed a person but I let it go after getting in a few kills till I see them again later.

I had (in the past) gone to west to have someone catcall me - so.. I did what needed to be done - I killed them. They contined when they came back, I killed them again, and decided to head to Mirror for some sparring.

Oddly - and I really believe it was coincedence - they did too.

They started up bad mouthing me so I killed them several times and then left (yet they kept calling me names).

My point is - if you stalked the person in an effort to deliberately grief them > this definately goes against TOS.

I can see killing one person 2-3 times in one spot - but after that.. yeesh let it go. Unless, they have about the same amount of kills on you established (meaning your not all powerful and bullying them).

Tomstone - Harshlands · November 2013

ask DarkThorn from the harshlands server he lives on the ToS constantly threatening with it...

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

Tomstone - Harshlands wrote: »

ask DarkThorn from the harshlands server he lives on the ToS constantly threatening with it...

Maybe you could ask him to come and contribute his knowledge to this thread. I would like to see this thread grow and share its information with other gamers....many gamers are not aware that they can pk in safety. On the Raging Tide server many people do not pk because although im sure they would like to they are so afraid of the many OP geared players that just farm them for hours that they are hindered from enjoying it. With the knowledge of this thread and a little wit of their own we can turn the servers into a more friendly place maybe for people to enjoy pk again.

I am aware this sounds corny but tbh i am tired of all the silly drama. I play this game to have fun as im sure many others do. Part of that fun i find in pking and i find it deplorable that so many people have to sit back and miss out on this fun just because of other people feeling they have to assert their power. Its time good players took this game back and made it fun again. The only way this can happen is if we actually try.

WilliamTell - Raging Tide · November 2013

I told someone to 'grow up' once, and they threatened me with the 'report you for harassment' line. Mind you, this is while they're trash talking other people on WC with childish insults about their mothers, girlfriends, and wives, and references to other people being dropped on their heads when they were young. Yes, report me for asking you to be mature while you publicly harass people.

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

WilliamTell - Raging Tide wrote: »

I told someone to 'grow up' once, and they threatened me with the 'report you for harassment' line. Mind you, this is while they're trash talking other people on WC with childish insults about their mothers, girlfriends, and wives, and references to other people being dropped on their heads when they were young. Yes, report me for asking you to be mature while you publicly harass people.

That is fair and fine but not really following this discussion

DoodsWH - Sanctuary · November 2013

from support

I am being harassed!
If you are being harassed by another player, please submit a support ticket and include the following:

(1) Screenshots and/or video to illustrate the situation.

(2) All character names involved.

(3) The server this occurred on.

(4) The exact time and date. (Server time, if possible. If not, please note your time zone for us.)

(5) A summary of the situation.

one shotting someone on a pve server is NOT harrasment. in fact it has to be over an extended period of time. I play on a pve server and have NEVER been banned for one shotting someone.

here is from the KS'ing Policy

"Kill stealing" is not illegal in our game. Remember that monsters do not actually belong to any player, and that the player/squad that does the most damage will gain the majority of the EXP as well as the loot that the mob drops.

The only time that a GM will intervene is if one player begins following another player from zone to zone, attacking the same mobs/harassing them in general for an extended period of time. At this point it would be considered player harassment.

notice it actually has to happen over time. longknfe had the best response i seen so far. If you think you can get me banned for one shoting you once being twice your level when you CHOSE to go into pk. well come on over to sanctuary and get me banned. on a PVE server you have to manually go into pk. you dont want to pk? then dont go into it. you pking with frinds and shinbu comes along and one shots the group. too bad go to safe and go blue and do DUELS. what part of player killer "PK" dont you carebears get?

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

DoodsWH - Sanctuary wrote: »

from support

I am being harassed!
If you are being harassed by another player, please submit a support ticket and include the following:

(1) Screenshots and/or video to illustrate the situation.

(2) All character names involved.

(3) The server this occurred on.

(4) The exact time and date. (Server time, if possible. If not, please note your time zone for us.)

(5) A summary of the situation.

one shotting someone on a pve server is NOT harrasment. in fact it has to be over an extended period of time. I play on a pve server and have NEVER been banned for one shotting someone.

here is from the KS'ing Policy

"Kill stealing" is not illegal in our game. Remember that monsters do not actually belong to any player, and that the player/squad that does the most damage will gain the majority of the EXP as well as the loot that the mob drops.

The only time that a GM will intervene is if one player begins following another player from zone to zone, attacking the same mobs/harassing them in general for an extended period of time. At this point it would be considered player harassment.

notice it actually has to happen over time. longknfe had the best response i seen so far. If you think you can get me banned for one shoting you once being twice your level when you CHOSE to go into pk. well come on over to sanctuary and get me banned. on a PVE server you have to manually go into pk. you dont want to pk? then dont go into it. you pking with frinds and shinbu comes along and one shots the group. too bad go to safe and go blue and do DUELS. what part of player killer "PK" dont you carebears get?

First off, this threat is not speaking of kill stealing. Secondly, your statement i made bold, to me, has many flaws. PWI does ALLOW us to choose to go pk mode. I agree that it is a choice...however it is an aspect of the game and when a person wishes to pursue that aspect of the game if you ask me they should have that right to choose to use that aspect of the game without constant threat of death. Basically what im saying is this. Say i choose to pk...and im lvl 90. You telling me that i cant pk just because you are stronger than me and will kill me if i come out infringes upon my ability to play a part of the game i want to. In a way it is a form of harrassment, oh you dont wanna die then dont go pk mode is basically saying im stronger than u and want to make it so you cant do what you want. It is more than just a matter of ToS it is a matter of respect. No one has any respect for their fellow gamer anymore. There is no reason why you should HAVE to farm a lower geared player repeatedly you just would choose to. In my eyes and im sure there are other people that agree, that is a form of harrassment. Just because u have better gear doesnt give u the right to ruin another players ability to do things he or she wants to do in the game. Of course u can try and argue that statement but it just makes you look like a jerk in all reality. Why not choose to NOT pk that person?

DoodsWH - Sanctuary · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

First off, this threat is not speaking of kill stealing. Secondly, your statement i made bold, to me, has many flaws. PWI does ALLOW us to choose to go pk mode. I agree that it is a choice...however it is an aspect of the game and when a person wishes to pursue that aspect of the game if you ask me they should have that right to choose to use that aspect of the game without constant threat of death. Basically what im saying is this. Say i choose to pk...and im lvl 90. You telling me that i cant pk just because you are stronger than me and will kill me if i come out infringes upon my ability to play a part of the game i want to. In a way it is a form of harrassment, oh you dont wanna die then dont go pk mode is basically saying im stronger than u and want to make it so you cant do what you want. It is more than just a matter of ToS it is a matter of respect. No one has any respect for their fellow gamer anymore. There is no reason why you should HAVE to farm a lower geared player repeatedly you just would choose to. In my eyes and im sure there are other people that agree, that is a form of harrassment. Just because u have better gear doesnt give u the right to ruin another players ability to do things he or she wants to do in the game. Of course u can try and argue that statement but it just makes you look like a jerk in all reality. Why not choose to NOT pk that person?

Me killing you isnt infringing on your right to play how you want. If you want that go play a single player game.

Second morales in killing? seriously? PK means player killer. what part of that sounds nice?

Pk just inst PK even on a PVE server.

TW - PVP/PK
Cube- Forces PK kill you while blue named except in first room.
Blood theater- can kill mobs and collect items to trade in for things. I can kill you and take those items you collected. over and over - no ban cause its part of the event.
Temple of dragon - similar to blood except underwater

as far as an opinion if im a jerk or not, don't really care, i can choose not to kill ppl in pk but seriously why would u go pk if YOU NEVER WANT TO GET KILLED. cause you can and expect me to follow your wishes? sorry bud it don't work that way. care bears are encouraged to play games that doesn't involve getting killed. LOL constant threats of death? um its a choice to go pk don't want to pay the price don't do it.

you DON'T have to go pk on a pve server and doing so expecting nothing to happen well i will assume the education you received is a bit light.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · November 2013

TZoner - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is a very good and well formed answer. I do however have one question. Where does it say they have to kill you multiple times for it to be harrassment and how many times exactly?

On PVP servers, 3 kills and the person need to ask to stop politely.

From a thread a few months ago a mod said that PK harassment was allowed on PVE servers cause people chose to be in PK mode.

So basically if you are on a PVP servers it's 3 kills and ask to stop, on a PVE server it's deal with it.

ovenusarmanio · November 2013

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands wrote: »

On PVP servers, 3 kills and the person need to ask to stop politely.

From a thread a few months ago a mod said that PK harassment was allowed on PVE servers cause people chose to be in PK mode.

So basically if you are on a PVP servers it's 3 kills and ask to stop, on a PVE server it's deal with it.

It really depends on the situation. On a pve server they are less likely to ban. If someone follows you around or bothers you for hours, it would be different. But you still have to politely ask them to stop, which most people cannot manage. On a pve server though they ask you why you didn't just exit PVP mode for a while if you were trying to quest in that location. So things like getting event blocked or quest blocked for a while, would be much more questionable and less likely to get the person banned. If someone is just blocking you from doing one quest and you keep running back to be one shot, and you can turn pvp off, that's kinda your own fault too. Since it's up to individual discretion and the rules are kind of not set in stone but open to interpretation, often times it depends on which GM you get. But that's the same for everything, some people get gear back they npc'ed and some do not.

Eoria - Harshlands · November 2013

Whenever people make these types of threads, I always assume the OP is trying to find a way to get someone banned for stupid ****.

TZoner - Raging Tide · November 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Whenever people make these types of threads, I always assume the OP is trying to find a way to get someone banned for stupid ****.

Actually if the OP was just trying to get someone just banned im sure he would just submit a ticket instead of going the writing an elaborate thread for people to discuss. As i clearly stated in the beginning of the thread i am already aware of what the rules are in this case and am trying to just get more insight an to get people to discuss what is clearly a iffy subject..as is seen by the many sides people have had on this issue. So i would have to say that your statement is not a very valid one. Why would any OP waste there time writing such an elaborate post just to get someone banned seeing as how forums are clearly NOT the way to do that?

Also i am still having an issue with other players statements that i can just CHOOSE to go back out of pk mode. While yes this is a valid option to avoid being pked that is still basically saying that that other player has the right to tell me what i can and cant do in the game. If you read the actual ToS under section 10 parts (f) and (n) it clearly states the opposite. Although i am sure all of the parts again are open to interpretation based on each individual circumstance, in the case of a player being followed and killed by another far better geared player, Or having that better geared player tell them that they will kill them on sight, seems to break these parts of the ToS. Again while open to interpretation by each individual circumstance, if a player that far out gears me is to tell me that if he sees me outside of Safety zone that he will kill me every time that clearly has to be breaking letter (f) and (n) of section 10 in some way. Anyone that disagrees please elaborate as to why.

Selak - Dreamweaver · November 2013

I think that the biggest problem is deciding what is griefing and what is not and is very dependent on the reviewers personal attitude to PK.

For example one poster above states:
"care bears are encouraged to play games that doesn't involve getting killed"

Statements like this are just wrong and would be better stated as,

Care bears play games where they can and do choose to be killed by NPCs, and other players, and just do not like, or believe you have to be rude about it by talking trash or repeatedly proving the point by repetitive killing of the same player.

E.G. we care about how we get killed not getting killed. lol

It will always be very difficult to make a TOS that can cover everyone's view.

From a previous post I read somewhere, I seem to remember that harassment was actually harder to prove on a PvE server than on a PvP server, because on a PvE server you have to choose to go white name and can choose to change back to blue named to leave safe zones to complete needed quests,

whereas on a PvP server less evidence is needed because you can be forced into safe zones and be totally unable to leave to complete needed quests as you do not have the ability to go blue name and leave the safe zones.

A question for smart people that know the ToS

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