Best of each class in PvP

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Did you just put PW and balance in the same sentence? You farming for 3 years and finally got somewhat end game gear doesn't really count lol. What about people just reaching 103? You're playing a class that scales with gears. Remember your class came out the same patch as Sin. They dominate low to mid range gears, Psy dominate for high to highest gears. Not to take anything away from you, since 99% of the people played while I still play were complete garbage and can't PK their way out of a wet paper bag without their gears. But try the same +12 weapon and +8 armor on another class against a full +12 with as much clue as you have, and see how it goes.

After playing games that actually care about class balance and use cash shop not for direct advantage but for cosmetic and progression acceleration, this game looks like a complete joke. Don't get me wrong, I've had some great times playing it, back when people had to do quests and open world PvP was crazy fun. All the drama, the KoS, the tears. I've not found a game with as good of open world PvP as PW had during the golden age. Met a lot of great people, Longknife not included. But the game really went to **** when FC, hyper and packs came out. But hey, at least I played the market (Redbetty ) and got a couple of grand out of this as retirement pension.

Btw... Anybody like tanks?

I like tanks. And sloths.

Oke I miss you, you were a cool dude. I don't play anymore either, haven't for months. I just lurk forums occasionally. Dude, I miss the times where rare pets were actually a big deal. I farmed the **** of them every day for months just to get my herc and nix and pretty much sold out everyday. Ohgawd the competition for those things were incredible, especially when Nyxya got involved and started killing everyone since he had a nix already and they were too OP. The PvP wars that took place just over a shadou cub was beautiful.
Then of course packs came out and thus began the decline.

Divine is a whoar.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Divine is a whoar.

Only for you.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Did you just put PW and balance in the same sentence? You farming for 3 years and finally got somewhat end game gear doesn't really count lol. What about people just reaching 103? You're playing a class that scales with gears. Remember your class came out the same patch as Sin. They dominate low to mid range gears, Psy dominate for high to highest gears. Not to take anything away from you, since 99% of the people played while I still play were complete garbage and can't PK their way out of a wet paper bag without their gears. But try the same +12 weapon and +8 armor on another class against a full +12 with as much clue as you have, and see how it goes.

After playing games that actually care about class balance and use cash shop not for direct advantage but for cosmetic and progression acceleration, this game looks like a complete joke. Don't get me wrong, I've had some great times playing it, back when people had to do quests and open world PvP was crazy fun. All the drama, the KoS, the tears. I've not found a game with as good of open world PvP as PW had during the golden age. Met a lot of great people, Longknife not included. But the game really went to **** when FC, hyper and packs came out. But hey, at least I played the market (Redbetty ) and got a couple of grand out of this as retirement pension.

Btw... Anybody like tanks?

Why do people who don't play anymore constantly come on here and try to claim to know exactly how things are?

Buffs. Buffs are everything. I could probably fight Jekel buffed while he has his gears and either be on equal footing or even have the advantage over him. The endgame gears have so many god damn raw stats that buffs are absolutely everything, and anyone who still plays could tell you that. When the gear difference between the average player like myself and the geared players is within reach of what buffs can provide, then that's something that hasn't happened before. R8 could not simply get buffs and kill r9, nor could TT90 or TT99 get buffs to kill r8. Likewise, Jekel cannot simply get buffs and fight me while I'm buffed and have a huge advantage (purge bow aside of course) because there's diminishing returns on your defense stats. The result is that anyone and anyone buffed has 80-85% damage reduction across the board, both physical and magical. Jekel's extra 3% or whatever over me obviously helps, but it's not going to render me incapable of killing him. In the end, the biggest advantage gear affords you is simply increases your chance of surviving long enough to get re-buffed once purged, and on the offensive front it can give you some extra crit and damage.
Psychics have actually turned out surprisingly balanced because literally -ANY- class constantly has a chance of oneshotting a Psy. While other classes easily acheive that 80% resistance on both ends, a Psy lingers at ~70 for physical and takes 11% more damage thanks to Black voodoo, both of which definitely show. The result is simple: Psy is a glass cannon.

Getting 103 is now easymode. You can easily run 6 PV runs (without rushing; 8 is possible) a day and get 6% a day, or do FC runs for sins and still get a good amount per run. Likewise, AEU's experience is nothing to sneeze at and a new event drops those shards that let you AFK for good EXP. FFS, you get a free 100k EXP a day just for logging in. 104 is .5% per run, 105 is .2-.3%.

The weapon refine is ultimately, once again, what matters most, because once again the game is designed in such a way that offense is easier to obtain than defense. The r9rr set bonus provides 4000 matk to both ends, and essentially getting 10 matk from meridian or the new title system translates to 100 extra. I fought a wizard just last night; both of us took off 90% of each other's health if we crit. Name one class that would be dysfunctional with those same gear standards; there isn't one. Back when the standard was r9, gear gaps were huge because it was quite easy to have your defense outweigh your offense, which resulted in characters who simply did not die. Now? Offense outweighs defense again. Name a class, name a target and it can be killed.


The gear gap is tiny. Don't get me wrong, those who are unrefined are the ones experiencing the gear gap, but with Nation War rewarding a good ~50mil a week, people have little reason to NOT be refined. And no, that's not just the OP people making that much since a lesser geared player can achieve that amount (or likely more, FFS the people that go squadless and avoid fights earn more) simply by constantly entering and leaving wars. If Dark, Infamous or Crimson were to blame a loss to one of the others on gear, I would simply laugh at them at this point. FFS, even Mayhem has gear standards to compete, they just don't because mega-derp.


Sorry, I'll just never understand the mentality of constantly moaning and whining about how "omg things aren't the same anymore!!1," incapable of seeing what the new systems have to offer.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've came here once so far, so not sure about this "constantly", and the game mechanics is still the same, unless they did a complete class revamp.

I'm aware what difference buffs make. People didn't gather buffs before a fight for the lulz.

You're missing the point and only seeing it from your Psy's perspective. I'm pointing out that your claim of "the game is at its most balanced stage" is completely bull****, unless they started handing out R9RR upon lvl103 that I'm not aware of.

My points: You've been farming/merching for 3 years to get to where you are now. You play a Psy.

That's great that you have +12 weapon and +8 armor, but that's not readily available to everyone who plays. Or do you mean it's now balanced for people who worked their *** off or spent a lot of money to get end game gears? Fast level 103 is exactly what I'm saying. You can power level to 103 and have **** for gears and get one shotted repeatedly.

Your class skill improve with gears, not just hp/def/att like other class. You can also switch to offense and defense mode at will. Other classes can't. They can't arbitrary increase their attack power while their opponent is stun while go in defense mode other wise (while sealing every other hit when gears are refined enough). They're forced to tank it. Your class doesn't scale linear with gears and that's why at your current gears you have the tools at hand to deal with full +12. All your seals, long stuns, and voodoo let you tank with your +8 armor. That's not the case with other classes. Roll a +8 armored BM, Wiz, and etc and see how you do against full +12. Do you think my full +10 first cast R9 (how many weeks of 50 mil nation wars is it to get my gears with current CS pricing if starting from scratch? Then how many more weeks to reach where you are?), even if +12ed weapon can even tick a full +12 R9RR?

We all know how broken Sin is at low to mid quality gears for both sides of the fight, but you'll be in denial if you don't think Psy is broken once gears are high enough.

Even assume all that you said about refine and buffs are true between your gears and full +12, there's still my first point of those gears are not available to everyone. It's easy to talk about "it's balanced" when you have the gears already. Gear gap is only "tiny" when looking at people who's played this for 3+ years. I'm talking about the overall game balance, not "if Longknife can take on ___". Game was balanced when everyone had the same TT gears.

No, I don't know all the new updates, but unless R9RR are the new NPC gears, or obtainable within a couple of weeks to a month with normal game play, your claim of balance is only from your own prospective. Try some other games, maybe you'll actually see what balance is when everyone's on the same playing field.

They ARE handing it out. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, makes around 50mil a week now and r9 is constantly on sale. r9rr is completely 100% farmed; you don't have to pay a dime for it. Alastar, myself, Bella, Eoria, Ascella....name a non-CSer: that person is either r9rr or well-refined and sharded N3. Total incomes are going up exponentially, costs of items are not. The market is adapting itself to the NW items that only the CSers have, but the advantage those afford is miniscule compared to advantages past gear-gaps gave.

And no, I used to never bother with buffs because killing someone buffed while unbuffed was no problem. Now though? Base stats are high, that means the buff difference is high. This is no longer "oh I have 25% physical reduction unbuffed and 35% buffed," this is 55% unbuffed and 77% buffed. It's HUUUUGE.


And since when am I a farmer or a merchant? I've never done either. That's my point: I got to where I am from a combination of one very wise investment, guild help and NW income. FFS I +11'ed my weapon from PK when Syntheros dropped me his wings.


And holy ****, you're BEYOND off with Psychics. So off it's not even funny. Please, kindly ask forum goers and residents how easy it is to oneshot a Psy. Ask if there's a single class that's incapable of oneshotting a Psy. Being silenced doesn't count for a whole lot if the Psy was killed in the process. That's all it is: you try for a oneshot, you have good odds of getting it, and if you don't, you also have good odds of being "punished" for attempting. If anything, the silence and stun rates have proven more to be a neccesity rather than a broken luxury. You're speaking of days when Urdian ran around uncontested in full +12 gear, where anyone not r9 would die from his reflect damage alone. Those days are gone; other people are +12 too and the fact is Psys take ****-tons of damage from everyone. The fact is that for as effective as Soul of Stunning may be, a cleric is more effective with their 30+ second sleep, and yet clerics aren't broken. (which btw, before you say "but they'll wake them first hit," go look up the new cleric moves) The fact is half of the people that could set it off have anti-stun, the other half have purify weapon.
The classes you're naming would be equally as effective with the same gear setup, the closest exceptions being BM and Barb or would obviously rather settle on a +8 weapon and +10 armors, but the exact setup you're naming is still doable. Buffs = you don't die without focus fire. Unbuffed = you're dead. Purge is the name of the game.

And please, ask the community my opinion of white voodoo. Ask them how much I use it as I sit here telling you the game is more balanced now than ever, ask them about the kind of reputation the Psys that love white voodoo have.


And you wanna know how long it'd take you to go from r9 to r9rr? Two months. Two months to have your end game gear. Two freaking months, and you have the best gear possible so you're free to focus on refines and shards. Every week after those two months is a 10 star orb. It's been like this for about a year now, so as you can imagine, a lot of people are absolutely set.




Again, I'm currently in Dark. When I came here, it was Mani requesting a merge with CJr. I brought a boat full of people that were poorly geared and hell, two of the guys in my squad weren't even level 100; we were approached because our guys proved they had smarts, not cause they were geared by any means. Today? 9 out of 10 of the people in my squad are r9rr, the 10th is well-refined N3.

What you fail to grasp is that defenses having diminishing returns is what's changing the name of the game to "purge." When everyone's buffed, everyone essentially has equal defenses because everyone's hovering around 77%. Yes a cleric will still take more damage from an archer than a wiz, but what was once 5k vs 2k or the like is now 3.5k vs 2k. Buffs are everything the moment you're N3 or r9rr. Beyond ~77% reduction? It's incredibly hard to get more defense. Back in the day, you're talking about a time when the average player had 67% of their best defense and 33% of their worst. Today? We're talking 78% of your best defense and ~55% of your worst. You get buffs? You're hitting that 75%+ threshold on both. FFS I have 78% reduction for magic when unbuffed and 82% when buffed; that 4%? That 4% is basically what people like Jekel and Wytche get for cash shopping so hard: yes it helps, no, it doesn't make them demigods and they'll go down for acting stupidly just like anyone else. This is a stark contrast to r9 having a good 60% advantage over r8, r8 hitting twice as hard as TT99, or the level 98 vs. level 85 fights that went on during the "golden age." 4% is NOTHING by comparison.
Furthermore, hitting these numbers does NOT require r9rr, and in some ways N3 can provide superior physical and magical defenses. What's happened now is that everyone is decked out in gear that makes hitting that diminishing point easy as pie, and before you know it, everyone's on fairly equal terms the moment they're buffed. Classes like Psy, which everyone once thought were godlike? A Psy in white is nearly worthless to it's team, absolutely killable
(the average player has 120 attack levels, white voodoo gives me 105 defense total...), and by no means capable of dealing any reasonable amounts of damage, a Psy in black is cursed to take 11% more damage on top of their pathetic pdef (perhaps the only class struggling to hit that 77% area for pdef) so it goes down quick if it's not cautious.

Not going to quote your entire post.

You're still not getting that how long you've been playing. Ok, it's 2 months to go from R9 to R9RR, how many months to go from nothing to R9? Two other months? Hell, let's say 2 10* a week, so assume Tisha to 8, you'll need 16 10* for a full +10. That's two more months? 4 more weeks for the +12 of weapon? And what's the price on Jades now? We'll include the money for armor shards in the money made during weekdays. So you'll be competitive in merely 7 months of work, great! And for what, occasional fights at west, once a week NW TW? So someone who's new is going to stick around for 1-2 months of leveling and 7 months more of getting gears before they can be somewhat competitive? Quite a bit of commitment for a game that now offers almost nothing in content other than weekend stuff.

Like I said, your grasp of balance is based on people who's been playing this for years and not the game a whole. If the current stage of the game is satisfying to you, great, more power to you, enjoy it. But it's laughable to call this game balance unless you just don't know better and never seen a game that actually cares about balance. You can say that the gap between heavy CSer and dedicated free players is smaller now and than its worse times, but this game isn't balanced by any mean. Do you know how long it takes on GW to get the end game gears that everyone has with exact same stats? A week of instances that are actually fun. But GW is lacking the open world PvP PW used to have, so it's not perfect either.

Know why we whine about how it was in the past? Because it was a great game, the perfect PvP game.

Bella b:cute.

damn it im (soleehungwel) the best base buffer on the server ......
ok only once did I base buff coming in late.

just getting back into game after long period on road, so most this I cant comment because most those players are gone or on alts I don't see main.

(but remember I know class but need a lot practice in pvp can survive from tw's but pvp lot different)

Kazum defiantly best bm I've been against

want to pvp yuyi more amazing cleric

sins mostly same if high refined all should be able kill a arcane

long knife for funniest and best pshy on server

and on pvp dead been able to pvp for hours last few days no problem,3-5 on me at once lot times but still lotta fun.

but agree new players are not coming and that road only leads one place

Agorey - Harshlands wrote: »

miss u guys...still train hopping around the US

We miss u too. ♥

Have you checked out NA yet, Evion?

Wow I have chars I didn't know I had. b:shocked

Wow GG PWI messing up avatar's. QQ

Doom_Panda btw.

Edit: Oh hey my lvl updated.

Ike_Night - Harshlands wrote: »

Agooooo message me on forumzzz
Derp, I was signed into my bm. It's Alastar

What I said there.

Alastar - Harshlands wrote: »

What I said there.

You never finished telling me how to cheat my essays.

Ain't got time to write all these papers yo, TELL ME.

Nomveggies - Harshlands wrote: »

go find a desperate college student, offer them free ramen and $10 to write your essays.

That works if you don't mind getting a C on a paper, though TBH I guess grades don't really matter unless you're going for grad school or an MBA...even then you can fix it by shelling out more money on a for-profit school...

Or **** it all and just get R999 +12 instead.