Now that Identity change is done, can we please have sex change too?

NottLie - Dreamweaver · October 2013

I think its time for a same-sex marriage too.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · October 2013

JustAllEvil - Harshlands wrote: »

Um, people have done that before this item, by doing things like changing an i to an l. I've seen a few fake blue names of more prominent players on Harshlands. (And years ago there was a fake version of one of my chars)

Now you reach new steps, rename a lvl 100 character so you can do BH`s - steal drops = profit.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

As stated in previous posts, there is no way we will be getting an item like that as long as China has its laws in affect. Unless you can somehow magically change this there is no way on earth it's going to happen.

there are a lot of things in this game that china has and we do not, and the other way around.
Just because you stated it (and/or someone else did) that does not mean it's an absolute truth.
The sex change will not lead to same sex marriage which is against chinese law, as you take the quest you will be automatically divorced from your husband/wife. Or you have to divorce first before being able to take the quest. Nothing against the law there.
I really don't understand how people can be so close minded about this and just yelling "it's not going to happen/it's impossible".
Name change was the same, here's the proof it's possible.
And from coding point of view it's just an object property. Make it editable and link it to a quest. Job Done.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · October 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

there are a lot of things in this game that china has and we do not, and the other way around.
Just because you stated it (and/or someone else did) that does not mean it's an absolute truth.
The sex change will not lead to same sex marriage which is against chinese law, as you take the quest you will be automatically divorced from your husband/wife. Or you have to divorce first before being able to take the quest. Nothing against the law there.
I really don't understand how people can be so close minded about this and just yelling "it's not going to happen/it's impossible".
Name change was the same, here's the proof it's possible.
And from coding point of view it's just an object property. Make it editable and link it to a quest. Job Done.

Are you that dense or is it cause your brain has been scrambled since this new feature to change names just got added. If you were to imply a change of gender, you'll still end up with same gender marriage which is against Chinese law. If you can move the boat down a small waterfall, what makes ya think ya can move that same boat down a bigger waterfall? Plus its been mentioned by the CM valiance (when he was around) and other gms that they'll never imput gender changing or same gender marriages. Idk if your brain crawled out from an unknown rock, or did it float from some unknown part of the galaxy.

TCHP - Lost City · October 2013

I find it funny that the game prevent same sex marriage and change just cause it was made in china. Like real law on real marriage should apply to fake virtual ones. Same has for sex change, it's not like you toon has a social number and pays taxes.

Well I never set a foot over there, I guess it's more a cultural issue then anything else.

Still they should implement the sex change, veno and barbarian aside.

And why the hell do barbarian and veno have to be sex limited. Like a wolf/panda/tiger can make babies whit a fox/bat/cat... ewww !

Ursa - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are you that dense or is it cause your brain has been scrambled since this new feature to change names just got added. If you were to imply a change of gender, you'll still end up with same gender marriage which is against Chinese law. If you can move the boat down a small waterfall, what makes ya think ya can move that same boat down a bigger waterfall? Plus its been mentioned by the CM valiance (when he was around) and other gms that they'll never imput gender changing or same gender marriages. Idk if your brain crawled out from an unknown rock, or did it float from some unknown part of the galaxy.

Gender change can be done with no implication to marriage status in this game. There were GMs before that said name change won't happen either, but I guess you haven't been in game for long enough. Still, the forum search function would be of help if your brain can wrap around its functionality.

Personal attacks are proof stupidity. The bigger and virulent they are the more stupid the poster actually is. Congratulations, it might be really difficult for anyone to beat you for a long time.

Kuzshi - Dreamweaver · October 2013

NottLie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think its time for a same-sex marriage too.

Time to head to China to make that happen. b:pleased

bobyjoee · October 2013

Though this might be cool and what not I highly doubt this will happen because of china... well being china, what they believe and perceive as correct is different from many peoples. Name change isn't a big deal that's why we got it, but this is a whole different concept.

Liveena - Heavens Tear · October 2013

Not going to happen b:pleased

Asone - Raging Tide · October 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Gender change can be done with no implication to marriage status in this game. There were GMs before that said name change won't happen either, but I guess you haven't been in game for long enough. Still, the forum search function would be of help if your brain can wrap around its functionality.

Personal attacks are proof stupidity. The bigger and virulent they are the more stupid the poster actually is. Congratulations, it might be really difficult for anyone to beat you for a long time.

This is not even personal opinion. It's fact. The name change problem had nothing to do with the law though. The marriage status does. I'm going to guess that you don't read up much on Chinese politics. We are foreigners to them and we have very little say in what goes on in China because, oh guess what, we aren't native to there. We get all of our content from the Chinese version of Perfect World. So again, we have no say in a same gender marriage system. I would give you a link for all this, but since it's a political issue I very much doubt I am allowed to.

As to an item for a gender change well........I don't see that coming any time soon simply because of this. If a character is already married to another character and you want to have that characters gender changed this is part of the problem. You would have to divorce both of the toons first if you wanted to attempt a gender change. It's (1 too much of a pain (2 would be going against China's law.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is not even personal opinion. It's fact. The name change problem had nothing to do with the law though. The marriage status does. I'm going to guess that you don't read up much on Chinese politics. We are foreigners to them and we have very little say in what goes on in China because, oh guess what, we aren't native to there. We get all of our content from the Chinese version of Perfect World. So again, we have no say in a same gender marriage system. I would give you a link for all this, but since it's a political issue I very much doubt I am allowed to.

As to an item for a gender change well........I don't see that coming any time soon simply because of this. If a character is already married to another character and you want to have that characters gender changed this is part of the problem. You would have to divorce both of the toons first if you wanted to attempt a gender change. It's (1 too much of a pain (2 would be going against China's law.

True, I don't know chinese law in detail, and to be honest I don't care much about it either. And your personal opinions are not facts, that's a fact

But,

I really don't understand why a sex change will make things complicated. You guys are just not thinking outside the box.
Lets take the two cases:

1. Toon not married: can anyone explain what chinese law stops you from chaging the sex of you toon?

2. Toon married. Ok here I understand same sex marriage is against law. Great. Solution: CASE 1. Get toon divorced (no against chinese law) and then change sex (no against chinese law).

So can anyone explain what chinese laws the above two cases break?

PS. thanks a lot for all the knowledgeable and deep comments with "not going to happen", "impossible". I'm sure people from Victorian era would have said the same thing to the Wright brothers or NASA Lunar missions:)

OFate - Heavens Tear · October 2013

JustAllEvil - Harshlands wrote: »

Um, people have done that before this item, by doing things like changing an i to an l. I've seen a few fake blue names of more prominent players on Harshlands. (And years ago there was a fake version of one of my chars)

There was a name I really liked and when I did this - my character got banned. No, I'm not kidding.

I was not pretending to be this person at all and they looked completely different... When I asked why, this was the why (that and them & their friends complained).

Asone - Raging Tide · October 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

True, I don't know chinese law in detail, and to be honest I don't care much about it either. And your personal opinions are not facts, that's a fact

It's a good thing you don't run a government. If you don't care nor respect other countries laws and views then I am done here.

But,

I really don't understand why a sex change will make things complicated. You guys are just not thinking outside the box.
Lets take the two cases:

1. Toon not married: can anyone explain what chinese law stops you from chaging the sex of you toon?

2. Toon married. Ok here I understand same sex marriage is against law. Great. Solution: CASE 1. Get toon divorced (no against chinese law) and then change sex (no against chinese law).

So can anyone explain what chinese laws the above two cases break?

PS. thanks a lot for all the knowledgeable and deep comments with "not going to happen", "impossible". I'm sure people from Victorian era would have said the same thing to the Wright brothers or NASA Lunar missions:)

I've already explained everything to you, go back and reread all the posts.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · October 2013

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

I've already explained everything to you, go back and reread all the posts.

nope u did not explained anything. You just expressed an opinion that you think it's a fact. NULL contribution.

opkossy · October 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

nope u did not explained anything. You just expressed an opinion that you think it's a fact. NULL contribution.

It's simple, really.

The devs are in China and, thus, they base the game with Chinese laws, culture, and expectations in mind. Since they're also the ones that develop our code we'd have to wait for Chinese culture and laws to change enough that something like this is no longer a taboo. Especially since our parent company would not be smart to take the huge kind of risk it would be to design and implement this sort of thing.

So to make it simple: Even ignoring the costs and difficulties to design this, until Chinese culture changes our devs wouldn't even consider something like this anyways.

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands · October 2013

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It wouldn't be possible. Veno's cant change their gender due to the mythology; and marriages would become annulled should the genders changed due to China's laws. Sorry

Right Chinese mythology.

Ever heard about Hua Mulan?

From Wikipedia:

''Hua Mulan is a legendary figure from ancient China who was originally described in a Chinese poem known as the Ballad of Mulan. In the poem, Hua Mulan takes her aged father's place in the army. She fought for twelve years and gained high merit, but she refused any reward and retired to her hometown instead.''

Basically it's a woman that did pass for a man in the army for 12 years without people noticing.

Mulan was maybe not a transsexual, but she did pass for a man for 12 years without people noticing, maybe some people in game are like Mulan, they fight as the opposite sex of what they are to gain merit and now they want to show their real face.

b:pleased

Edit: I'm speaking here for all class except barb/veno, since barb/veno don't have the other sex choice.

feymir · October 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I really don't understand why a sex change will make things complicated. You guys are just not thinking outside the box.

Perhaps you don't understand because you don't know how they coded it?

Unless the developers created the system with sex change in mind in the beginning, it was likely not incorporated as something feasible and would be very costly to change. Unless there was a huge demand for this type of service, there is no reason for PWE (a business) to spend money and possibly be changing the infrastructure of their program. These types of changes require a lot of time and man power which is ultimately really costly for a company. Unless they expect a huge return for their efforts, it would make no sense for them to do it. This is assuming there are no other reasons against having sex change as an option in the game. Of course I do not know how they built their program and how tightly coupled everything is with each other (judging by how the updates are and all the bugs it's probably very messy and hard to make changes in), but I think it's probably safe to assume they did not have changing gender as an option in mind during their earlier stages of development.

I know some of you are probably thinking "if they can change the name then they can change the sex! Perhaps they can but a name and sex are different, unless you just want them to change a value and let your toons all look the same (ie. male in female body) it'd probably require a lot more work. From the looks of how this name thing is working atm (once you pick a name you can't go back) it seems like they're just adding extra fields and your original name wasn't really unlinked from your character (messy coding).

This said, I have nothing against supporting the capabilities for sex change in the game. I think it's a great idea and would add quite a lot of flexibility to the game. However do keep in mind that PWE is a business and businesses speak money. Maybe they should do it and charge $5000 per sex-changing stone. Haha, jkjk.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · October 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

It's simple, really.

The devs are in China and, thus, they base the game with Chinese laws, culture, and expectations in mind. Since they're also the ones that develop our code we'd have to wait for Chinese culture and laws to change enough that something like this is no longer a taboo. Especially since our parent company would not be smart to take the huge kind of risk it would be to design and implement this sort of thing.

So to make it simple: Even ignoring the costs and difficulties to design this, until Chinese culture changes our devs wouldn't even consider something like this anyways.

I don't understand how changing the sex of a character in game can be a taboo when that character already has the option of being a male or female when created. There is no link between the sex of a player and the sex of a character he's playing, so I don't see any taboo's there either.
Unless you're telling me that the action of changing the sex of a character is outlawed in China, then I understand in part why they don't do it.

Perhaps you don't understand because you don't know how they coded it?

true, i don't know exactly how they coded it. But I'm pretty sure the game is written in C++ (or something similar) and after 12 years of working as a senior SW Dev/SW Architect I have a pretty good idea what can and cannot be done with classes/objects in OOP and the interaction with a database. Based on that logic I can tell you 100% it can be done and it's not complicated at all.

from the looks of how this name thing is working atm (once you pick a name you can't go back) it seems like they're just adding extra fields and your original name wasn't really unlinked from your character (messy coding).

Again, I don't know and I don't care how they implemented the name change. If they did that their programmers are worst that some high school jscript kids I know.

I'm not planning to change the sex of any of my chars anyway, I'm arguing for an idea.

opkossy · October 2013

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't understand how changing the sex of a character in game can be a taboo when that character already has the option of being a male or female when created. There is no link between the sex of a player and the sex of a character he's playing, so I don't see any taboo's there either.
Unless you're telling me that the action of changing the sex of a character is outlawed in China, then I understand in part why they don't do it.

We may not understand it but... that's how things are there. There are plenty of laws, taboos, decisions, and so on that don't make sense when viewed by an outsider. This just happens to be one of them.

As I said, until the culture and general view changes over there, it'll remain the way it currently is. And this is with me assuming all the technical issues can be dealt with easily. Which is likely incredibly far from the truth and would be an additional problem to consider if we didn't have the culture and laws to go through.

Lolitta - Raging Tide · October 2013

I played another MMORPG few years ago and they had sex change scroll but when you changed from female to male or male to female, the wedding auto cancel itself so I dont see the problem if it can be same here. Change gender and wedding is cancel so it cant be same sex weddings. There, problem solved.

And i dont see why is no allow to change gender if that other game was also from China and no laws involved. How come there is allow and here no? But i know on Private Server it exist so that means is implement in PW right?

TCHP - Lost City · October 2013

like someone said it's probably a question of money. I guess since PW is not doing so well, there trying to keep old players and attract new one whit those crappy and full of bug update content.

opkossy · October 2013

Lolitta - Raging Tide wrote: »

I played another MMORPG few years ago and they had sex change scroll but when you changed from female to male or male to female, the wedding auto cancel itself so I dont see the problem if it can be same here. Change gender and wedding is cancel so it cant be same sex weddings. There, problem solved.

And i dont see why is no allow to change gender if that other game was also from China and no laws involved. How come there is allow and here no? But i know on Private Server it exist so that means is implement in PW right?

Different games will have different programming and different difficulties in such. I've played and made many games where many things that cause issues here aren't an issue. However there are also many where they still are. You cannot use one game as a comparison for all of them when it comes to source code.

As for the MMO you're talking about, are you certain it was Chinese? After all, China has gone so far as banning males from playing female characters, performing scans of facial structure to ensure that males play males, and so on. Considering them doing that to keep a guy from playing as a female in a game or vice versa, do you really think that any Chinese-run company would think it wasn't a huge risk to implement any form of gender change? And that's under the HUGE assumption they would even consider it to begin with!

Lolitta - Raging Tide · October 2013

TCHP - Lost City wrote: »

like someone said it's probably a question of money. I guess since PW is not doing so well, there trying to keep old players and attract new one whit those crappy and full of bug update content.

But if they dont do good with money maybe they should make new things for 100+ players because 90% of PWI players are 100+.
Implement new things for the majority not minority cuz eventually small player or new players will buy FC heads after all or they will be 100+ fast. If they wanna make money they need to do some new things and affordable things, maybe cheaper Boutique cuz where is cheap many buy. The gender scroll will be great for us and for them as well because I know people will buy it.

Lolitta - Raging Tide · October 2013

OPKossy wrote: »

Different games will have different programming and different difficulties in such. I've played and made many games where many things that cause issues here aren't an issue. However there are also many where they still are. You cannot use one game as a comparison for all of them when it comes to source code.

As for the MMO you're talking about, are you certain it was Chinese? After all, China has gone so far as banning males from playing female characters, performing scans of facial structure to ensure that males play males, and so on. Considering them doing that to keep a guy from playing as a female in a game or vice versa, do you really think that any Chinese-run company would think it wasn't a huge risk to implement any form of gender change? And that's under the HUGE assumption they would even consider it to begin with!

Is true, every game is different and it was China game but scroll is not just for male try to be female. For example I am a girl and my husband have a bm alt who dont play so much with him and I play more but is a male and is strange when people say "Hi bro" or "what's up dude?" and i want to make my husband's bm a girl so I can buy some cute fashion for the character and that will not be lying or an issue because i really am a girl. But i guess is not up to us, was just an idea. I really dont agree with name scroll but I guess it was necessary because many people have lines and $ and all kinds of stuff by the name and maybe good idea to change, many of them have even insulting names.

Now that Identity change is done, can we please have sex change too?

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