Stat Vit

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I think this is too extreme, although I do agree with vit statting in general.

And that right there sums up my first post in one sentence. Well played, Venus. b:surrender

I solo PV with TT60 axes and npc.TT70 gear on my second BM, no charm self buff just BP; who needs vit

gear vit points and 19k hp wiz

how do you only have 20k in tiger wtf..

There's many a way to go about obtaining your defenses on a toon. Vit is one of them. I wouldn't say 100+ vit on a cleric is necessarily a great thing. You would be healing much as if you were a light armored cleric (ie 104 str, 104 dex at level 100). I'm sure everyone has had an LA cleric in squad in the past and wondered why they were having to use potions a lot more than they did with other clerics. Or they notice that cleric's BB isn't as strong as others'. That is because you are sacrificing so much points that go into the stat you need for providing heals, and dumping them into survival. There is a balance that should be sought after.

For instance (speaking of arcane classes):
Rather than going for channeling on ornaments (typically found on elemental ornaments), wear a physical defense ornament instead. Get your survival against the attacks you are naturally weak against boosted in this manner. Keep your base magic higher so as to provide better heals, and put a bit of vit in - but not too much.

For physical classes, wear mdef ornaments. Balance out your weaknesses!

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That all said - the reason why DD classes - sins, bms, barbs that go for APS, and even seekers - like to go for low or no base vit - is because the difference in resistances between 5 vit and 200 base vit works out to about 1-2% only. Dumping those 195 points or into STR makes you hit a lot harder, which means you heal more effectively off of bloodpaint, especially when sparked. This is the same reason why you see sins that solo stuff using a Jones Blessing as opposed to an Omalley. The heals from BP returned are stronger and keep up better than if you were to use an O'malley for taking smaller hits yourself, and hitting not quite as hard. For my seeker (base 5 vit) I run through my Lunar pulls with omalley equipped, but once vortex goes up I swap over to a Jones.

http://pwcalc.com/8ea73ac2da2c1085 <- my vit build barb
http://pwcalc.com/873e0fc76e3bac2e <- my str build seeker wearing the same exact armor

*notes - barb has demon axe/hammer mastery and seeker has only level 10 blade/sword so the base damage range figures look backwards. All other buff levels depicted are the same. Notice how the "damage reduced by x%" figure is the same for p.def on both toons, and for mdef there is only a 2% difference.

Why I chose to go without adding vit on seeker is because of the fact that seeker gets adrenal numbness which is basically like having the defense side of an omalley blessing, which makes heals more effective in itself by taking smaller hits than the barb does. True, I don't get the HP pool that the barb has - but when taking smaller hits I don't need it. Not for anything PvE.

Defense > HP for the most part. Having a high HP pool with low defense = lotta charm ticks.

I don't have to do *math* to calculate how much stronger the heals would be, because I've done lots of TT runs and other instances in my time in PWI to be able to feel the difference in heals between an LA cleric (for instance) an AA cleric with 50 base vit and a pure arcane cleric, each wearing roughly equivalent weapons. But if you'd like to get into the math, feel free to make some sample builds with same gears and compare those magic attack stats against the description of IHB/BB etc.

IHB: Bless the target to restore 714 HP plus 30% of your base magic attack over 15 seconds.

Of course as a Barb you know that the higher your base HP is, the more return you're going to get from Beast King's inspiration. The same principle applies here to heals.

In nation wars, if you're undergeared - having a bit of vit isn't going to save you from getting one shot. Walking into a NW wearing tt90 armor with 200 vit you're still going to get one shot by some r9rr damage dealer. When you start looking at things on an equivalent gear level, the playing field changes entirely. Take a look for example at Aeliah - an R9rr cleric with mostly +12 refines. Shes got no base vit, but actually statted for an LA helmet by putting in 50 extra str, and refined that up for more HP, a tradeoff for statting an extra 100 vit (to gain 1000 extra hp than the AA hat). She's not one shot fodder to equivalent geared players - and can actually hold her own against two or more.

Vit is the most obvious route - but it isn't the *only* route to gain your HP.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

who's talking about not getting one-shot? the thing is, getting oneshot when you have X+1k hp gives more points than getting oneshot with X hp.

Well you, for one, mentioned that having a high magic attack won't help your points in NW when you get one shot. By this I was assuming you meant that having extra HP would prevent you from getting one shot. Hence my reply. If you're implying that having extra HP, and therefore taking more damage = higher points, then this is something I'm not aware of personally to be honest. I was always under the impression that points came from objectives completed (flag captures, crystals captured) amount of damage *dealt* to an enemy, and kill credit. If there's some algorithm that allots points for damage absorbed, then sure - go pure vit. Again, I must have missed that memo.

As for the heals returned from blood paint making solo boss kills easier with more attack power and no base vit vs a bit more def (1-2% as shown clearly from the linked builds) and higher HP - I know this to be a fact based on experience having played a 5.0 sin with +12 DDTs for a while before NW was released. This was tested essentially by changing between an omalley blessing and a jones blessing while farming nirvana. All other conditions being equal, the jones blessing outperformed the omalley in terms of self healing without using potions or charm. Nothing is trying to be hidden in my post, I'm simply sharing something I've learned from my own experience.

LA helmet:
Dexterity +6~12
Dexterity +6~12
Vitality +6~12
Reduce Physical damage taken +1~2%
12: +2250

AA helmet:
Magic +6~12
Magic +6~12
HP: +80~150
Reduce Physical damage taken +1~2%
12: +1387

let's stick with max stats. for a cleric, the difference is:
1.2% crit, 863hp vs 24+50 stat points
stating 74 points in vit would give 740 hp and a bit of defence so the difference is 1.2% crit and 123hp. of course we can add the cape bonus; it's 200 extra hp but the AA cape has 12 more mag points. so the final difference is:
203 hp and almost 2% crit in favour of the LA set.
not exactly a breakthrough to justify thinking that it's an awesome hax build compared to plain vit.

isn't it funny though that stating str for a LA helm is more accepted than stating vit? b:chuckle

I never called it a "hax" build. I believe that is you attempting to put words into my mouth because I don't agree with you that everyone should be adding large amounts of VIT to gain survivability. NW is only one aspect of the game, and there are many others. This does happen to be the beginner section where newcomers come to seek advice on how to stat up. Do we really want to see classes that don't need 100 vit in early game ending up gimped in all other aspects of their play (decreased damage, heals, pet heals etc) for the sake of getting a few extra points in NW when they inevitably get one shot?

I'll just leave things by saying VIT is good to have, but only to a certain extent - and I feel like only a barb should be built with all excess points allocated into VIT. Regarding my comment about defense > hp - the reckoning behind this is that if you can boost your defenses to the point where you take small enough hits, heals become more potent (relatively speaking) at keeping you alive - rather than relying on charm ticks to serve this function. True, there is a cap on how much defense % you can obtain, and this is 90%. Once you hit this point you want to start looking at increasing your Defense Levels for further defenses. Now, there's a reason why a lot of Melee toons drop easy in NW, and that is because they have terrible magic defense - this goes back to my recommendation of boosting your mdef on an HA toon (and vice versa for an AA toon). So maaaybe, just maaaybe, if you build your toon for defenses that can absorb those hits, and you know how to play your toon as well, you can actually stay alive and do more damage - thus getting you better NW token rewards. That is my Point of View on the subject.