the never ending issue with HP and charms...

OoArCsTeRoO - Sanctuary · September 2013

i feel your pain, there are a lot of things which would make game more fun if implemented, but they never will be so i have no hopes of anything changes. b:chuckle

Badonkajonck - Archosaur · September 2013

shashahah wrote: »

ok so here's the deal...

3) charms with no specific amount of hp BUT with let's say 200 ticks, which means no
matter how many HP u got it ticks 200 times and then disappears)

thx b:thanks

The only problem with this is for lowerlevel players that likes to use charms it is cheaper for them because they have so little hp it could last them a month if not longer.

If they did change it to 200 ticks then its just ****. beacuse lowbies would be going through them like cake.

Badonkajonck - Archosaur · September 2013

shashahah wrote: »

ok so here's the deal...

3) charms with no specific amount of hp BUT with let's say 200 ticks, which means no
matter how many HP u got it ticks 200 times and then disappears)

thx b:thanks

The only problem with this is for lowerlevel players that likes to use charms it is cheaper for them because they have so little hp it could last them a month if not longer.

If they did change it to 200 ticks then its just ****. beacuse lowbies would be going through them like cake.

shashahah · September 2013

Badonkajonck - Archosaur wrote: »

The only problem with this is for lowerlevel players that likes to use charms it is cheaper for them because they have so little hp it could last them a month if not longer.

If they did change it to 200 ticks then its just ****. beacuse lowbies would be going through them like cake.

ye i considered that too, thats why i made option 2) (craftable charms) lol

or, on the other hand, they could do a 2-way charm system:
- keep current charms, but make em cheaper perm (esp. like 2gold for platcharms)
and
- implement new charms with a specific amount of ticks for lets say 3-4gold, depending
on amount of ticks and w/e

this way every1 could choose whatever option fits best for him-/herself ~

slamstone · September 2013

Tetream - Lost City wrote: »

you should be able to put a charm off (after equipping it, it should be bound)

this
would solve alot of issues (maybe most of them)

Marengo - Lost City · September 2013

slamstone wrote: »

this
would solve alot of issues (maybe most of them)

Not really. Charm suffers a lot when you stand up after death and get cooldown on your whole HP. It's even worse in NW where you revive with hp buff. And you can't unequip anything while you are dead.

RankNine - Momaganon · September 2013

without reading any previous post:

THIS IS WHY I SHARDED JOSD. i barely use a whole event gold siver charm per tw. nw costs 100 k charm.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

RankNine - Momaganon wrote: »

without reading any previous post:

THIS IS WHY I SHARDED JOSD. i barely use a whole event gold siver charm per tw. nw costs 100 k charm.

b:chuckle but I'm a derp one-trick-kitty that only uses arma

ogunernile · September 2013

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »

seems like you have no clue as well. makes it fair

um sorry tet but he's is right with massive hp, hp based attack, return to life with 2 sparks, as you hit me i hit you for more, stun, stun, debuff, occult, arma. get a clue. there is a reason barbs pull catas. the only class with a shot in pvp [1v1] would be an archer....after a certain hp level not even a seeker cant cut it before the stun stun stun starts to give a clear edge of a class with very limited field control.

ogunernile · September 2013

Badonkajonck - Archosaur wrote: »

The only problem with this is for lowerlevel players that likes to use charms it is cheaper for them because they have so little hp it could last them a month if not longer.

If they did change it to 200 ticks then its just ****. beacuse lowbies would be going through them like cake.

why not offer both? hp and tick charm...that way a person could choose.

Nariin - Dreamweaver · September 2013

It's just the price for having a lot of HP.

Number of ticks is a terrible idea. Less HP doesn't necessary mean less charm ticks, but it normally does mean (way) less tokens. So a low geared, low HP, poor person can have 1 plat charm for whole weekend (both NWs) or more, while a high geared, high HP, not poor person has to go trough few. How does that not make sense? Even if the high HP person needs to use more charms they still end up with way more profit then low HP one. Making charms cost the same for any HP (either too cheap for rich ones or too expensive for poor ones, or both)... what logic is that?

Maybe they could add a new "tier" of charms with more HP. Or having an option to "turn off" charms, with them being automatically turned off upon death. Though why'd they do something that makes them earn less money \o/

Also, I like the idea of disabling charms in NW. It would sure make things interesting. b:chuckle

Kablaab - Dreamweaver · September 2013

If we make farmable charms from IE nation wars tokens.. is this not essentially the same thing as:

Do nation wars -> get tokens -> craft uncannies/raps/sow (whatever is selling best at current market prices) -> purchase a charm from a cat shop/purchase gold and buy from boutique? Just.. without all the steps along the way?

Personally, I do NW without a charm most of the time. Sure I might not live as long as others that do use a charm, but my costs are lower therefore I make more profit. If you're running through multiple platinum HP charms in a nation war - you should rethink your strategy more than just a little bit, because at that point you might as well be spending whatever funds you did on your charms to purchase the materials gotten from NW, from those who do the event and will be selling their loot for profit (not loss).

For TW - sure it is understandable to go in charmed especially if you are a catapuller. Puller cant really do his job without one - or else being hand held by a cleric that never dies. A serious TW faction typically replaces/provides those charms for their pullers. They'd be wise to treat TW like a business venture since - well - it brings in coinage for the faction and therefore is a business venture of sorts.

For an "amount of ticks = x" type charm - there comes an issue with pricing it. How should it be priced? If a platinum HP charm costs 6 gold and gives 1.2 mil HP worth of ticks, how much should a charm cost that ticks 200 times? Well, if it is a low HP toon of 4k HP, this is basically a 400k HP charm - smaller than a gold. Would it cost less than a gold hp charm? 2 gold perhaps?? But at this price, people with 20k HP would be getting 2 Mil worth of ticks for a third of the cost of a platinum HP charm. It certainly sounds nice, but it is unbalanced and would result in the HP charm cost/upkeep of more expensive gears be less than that of early game gears, which is backwards from how it should be. How then should they be priced, to keep things "fair" for all? A higher price tag on them would just mean there isn't any real savings at all. A 12 gold "200 tick" charm would give a 24k hp character (barb in g16 nirvana's +6ish) the equivalent of 2 platinums. This would be an absurd cost for a low level, an equivalent deal for an average non-cashed out barb/heavy cashed DD/cleric, and a nice looking deal for those with larger HP pools (heavy cashed barbs).

It would be hard to please everyone. You can certainly provide both types and leave it to the buyer to shop smartly, but the issue remains with pricing those "X amount of ticks" charms, since I doubt the boutique can price them dynamically based on character's HP. I don't see that "200 ticks" type of charm ever being a tradable item in the forseeable future. It would be cash shop only or *possibly* NW/Base Trials farmable, and once purchased/crafted would be bound to your character /non stashable.

Ahira - Lost City · September 2013

Massive survivability should come at some sort of cost, so barbs shouldnt get off lightly.

But I dont see whats different all of a sudden. Barbs have always had to spend the most on repairs/charms/pots etc- thats the price for never having to struggle to find squads for anything.

Anyhow we used to see 15k hp barbs and 5k hp arcanes and now its 60k hp barbs and 20k hp arcanes- relative charm usage is effectively the same.

But not to worry, I'm sure pwi has an increased size charm in the pipeline and it will be priced at a discount- (similar to how they brought out platinum charms when gold ones became inadequate.)

(HI MARENGO b:byeb:chuckle)

Korpinsulka - Raging Tide · September 2013

Whoever said barb has no healing skills has not obviously read their skill descriptions close enough.

Also barb can dominate in 1vs1 b:bye

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · September 2013

You have event gold charms, charms from NW tokens? HELL NO! Yet again not accessible for a lot of people, if you can afford the top hp, you should be able to fund your charms /end thread

bluestuffzzz · September 2013

The OP is a valid point. My barb is pushing around 27k HP, which isn't that much for a Barb nowadays. I find that through a full NW, it's possible to blow through about 2 platinum charms.

My theory on it all, is when the charm cost is more than 50% total profit of doing said task, then it's not worth it to be charmed. In the case of doing a full NW charmed, unless your nation gets 1st place and you get more than 15k personal credit, it's not worth it. You end up spending ~10-15m on charms and come out with about 10-15m coins, thus the profit can be even be negative amounts.

Marengo - Lost City · September 2013

Ahira - Lost City wrote: »

(HI MARENGO b:byeb:chuckle)

Ahira couldn't skip a topic about charms b:chuckleb:bye

bluestuffzzz wrote: »

My theory on it all, is when the charm cost is more than 50% total profit of doing said task, then it's not worth it to be charmed.

Agree. Losing NW is not losing TW after all.

MissCherie - Harshlands · September 2013

I just wish we could remove them, mines pass during the week while I remove gears to put in account stash and when I put back my gears, no joke I can pass a charm just by that. QQ

Reliea - Sanctuary · September 2013

Charms are annoying. IMO they're mostly a waste to use if you're under 10k hp. They really don't increase survivability by enough to warrant the cost to buy them. If they're free, like through event gold or something, I guess that's a different story.

I don't see them getting cheaper, and when/if they come out with bigger charms, they'll just be proportionally more expensive compared to the plat ones.
It only makes sense for these things to cost as much as they do, so that people who have -completed- their gear have something to sink their coins into. If you have not completed your gear, it's probably better to save money to work on it rather than dispose of it in charms, especially if you don't make enough coin back from using it to increase your wealth and cover the cost of the charm.

Me personally, I prefer the auto-potter. Mostly because you can load up more things to auto tick, and you can choose at which point your hp/mp food activates, as well as it being tradable, so all my chars can get the benefit from one purchase.

I don't want to make people with high HP have an easier life than they already do.
High gear -> high hp -> harder to kill = easy enough life.

KingCrash - Dreamweaver · September 2013

I'd be okay with the ability to turn the function of the charm on and off. Keep the charm bound when you equip it still for sure but I mean once you put the charm on, being able to turn off it's function like the auto pot would solve a lot of issues and increase the longevity of charms by a ton.

There are so many unnecessary ticks that can happen and it makes people very reluctant to even duel while they have a charm on cause once the duel is over, it ticks.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · September 2013

This is an issue?
This is the price one pays for having such high HP and being that much harder to kill (or in the case of the pure vit[stone] barbs, the price of a stronger armageddon and a bit of extra durability).

Its just another con for those who dont want to go with pdef/mdef/def level shards for damage migitation, and I see nothing wrong with it.
However,

KingCrash - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd be okay with the ability to turn the function of the charm on and off.

I would welcome this or the ability to control when charms tick (percentage control), but we know that probably won't ever happen.

SHIMBERLY - Heavens Tear · September 2013

I hate going into a instance lets say...warsong and hear some one complain about freakin charm ticks and then get a story of dumb info about other ****....poor people..sheesh

Fissile - Archosaur · September 2013

I think the real solution would be charms with an infinite HP/MP pool, but time limited.

Lecus - Lost City · September 2013

Infinite HP Clerics would be bundles of fun.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · September 2013

shashahah wrote: »

ok so here's the deal...
since the number of players with max gear/refine is rapidly increasing, and thus, the amount of HP per player, id like to bring this issue up (i guess this is no news to barbs..lol)

to put it simple, the more hp, the more charm u ra.pe
this is especially an issue in tw
best example: a 60k HP barb (a friend of mine got one, so i have some facts to base this on) **** around 10plat charms per 3h tw if he's lucky, and that even tho he's not even catbarb, else it would be at least twice the amount
let's say an average 5-6m per platcharm (based on sanctuary prices), thats 50-60m per tw u have to fund out of ur own pocket, unless u got some1 rich to pay for it (which i bet doesnt happen that often xD)
and going uncharmed to important tws is, well...

this is also the reason why so many ppl quit pking; its just no fun anymore if u have to farm for ages to pay the charmcost for a few hours of fun;
and those who dont spend real money on this game know how long it takes these days to farm ~50m

so my wish/suggestions would be either of these:

1) decrease charm cost (as in, gold per charm)

2) charms being craftable with NW tokens

3) charms with no specific amount of hp BUT with let's say 200 ticks, which means no
matter how many HP u got it ticks 200 times and then disappears)

option 3) is my personal favorite, given a platcharm with e.g. 200 ticks at current prices (3g per charm) would make it so much more easier for players with higher HP and actually bring some fun back into the game ~

P.S. would be great if i/we could possibly get a GM response to this what they think about this

thx b:thanks

if they got such a pimped out character, tell them to get off their **** and farm with it. 60k hp great. Go TT and pop some crabmeat instead of a charm.

Its almost like poor pple buying a high end car and not being able to handle the maintenance for it.

Joe - Morai · September 2013

yay let us all quit this game and play...

Ringelpietz mit anfassen ^.^

The only reason I never really pked with my barb was that I could pk a few days or full +7 a random alt with the money or get me a luad. Haaarrrdddd decision^^

Charms have always been way too expensive. But you know, thats a main and reliable income for PWE. Some play only for TW thus establishing the need on charms. Charms will get burned. Charms will be needed til this game finally dies. They won't do anything about it.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide · September 2013

I have no sympathy for ultra high end hp characters and their charm ticks.

The analogy about buying a high end car is true. I've known people who bought a big SUV, or something like a 7 series BMW because they look "fly, yo" and complain that they get 8 to 15 miles per gallon, and can only afford to put $10 worth of gas in their vehicle.

Kind of like making $10 an hour flipping burgers but spend $200 for a pair of jeans, $250 for a pair of sneakers, and $100 for a t-shirt with a huge logo on it. No, it doesn't make you look rich, it makes you look like an idiot.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver · September 2013

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

Kind of like making $10 an hour flipping burgers but spend $200 for a pair of jeans, $250 for a pair of sneakers, and $100 for a t-shirt with a huge logo on it. No, it doesn't make you look rich, it makes you look like an idiot.

and then you QQ about having to send them to dry cleaning b:chuckle

VKnightV - Lost City · September 2013

nobady forced you to invest so much farm time or rl bucks

you did great

now pay the charms greedy ***

if you was smart you would have known the prices of charms would get bigger and bigger

starts at 20k

one question how great is ur friends 60k T.O.P he cant geat healed with that really

been barb and i know how it feel but if u get some upgradable charm like that **** 200 ticks i will ask pwi to compensate my two years of playing a barb and wasting charm.

cos i lived it too but nothing ever happened in my time so why should they change it now
for you are you somehow special

Quilue - Sanctuary · September 2013

You didn't have 60k hp though, so you're not special. b:pleased

the never ending issue with HP and charms...

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